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We are fighting for the integrity of the club and that should include the integrity and defence of someone that was acting on behalf of the club at the time; I would be disappointed if they cut him lose.

I think Neil Craig is a great asset for our football club.

Unfortunately the original thread is closed, but perhaps it could be opened and this merged. It's now known that there will be no penalty from the incident on Boxing Day. At the time I stated on numerous occasions that it was a trivial matter, while others wet themselves over Howe deplorable it was. Many of you really need to learn the art of perspective. Clearly it doesn't come naturally to many. It was obvious at the time it was a triviality on a public holiday and thankfully the club saw it as such. Apologies can be posted below:

Dammit, if we can't defend these latest allegations, then we deserve to go down! They're as incisive as something you'd read on bigfooty.

There are many posters who have moments of being reactive and/or negative. I am one of the most guilty. But you RR stand alone for being ridiculously obtuse. You arrive out of the ether with multiple quotes that you apparently think "cleverly" attack other posters. I wouldn't mind this, but you are supposed to be a moderator. You are in fact a flamer. The very opposite of your supossed role. You are a pathetic disgrace. A hypocrite.

What we do is at our cost, such is the way. Many are focussing on what our costs and losses are in all this. I'm more than prepared to look at our gains ; we get self respect ( can't count on any others ) and we get a spine and I'm sure if we look we'll find we've grown some. Well be part of that group that won't be f'd with. Lets face it we haven't been there for a long long time and what happens off-field often permeates to on field ! This is the domain of the filth, the squawkers etc even the Visy-vermin ! It's a mindset . You have to walk the walk to get there.

No need to rack anyones brains. Martin - (off with a corky) - played the next week - feasible for a corky. Whelan - (off with a foot injury) - missed the next two games. Bennell - off with a knee injury - missed the next three games. Quite a worthy explanation.

Totally agree. An experienced and sophisticated administrator (and the AFL has those) does not conduct an investigation such as this without first knowing the result. The leaks are absolutely strategic and designed to give the micro-message that everything is being looked at (800 pages!!!!!!) and the macro-message that the AFL has integrity. The fact is, the AFL has an integrity problem to fix. They tried the "head in the sand", they tried changing the system at times, but the issue would not go away. The next best option was an investigation. Further, if what we read in the papers about the substance of the allegations in the report are true, it appears that the case is largely circumstantial. I have been involved in many investigations, and I suggest that the length of time taken and the number of people interviewed and re-interveiwed very much supports a circumstantial case. I have read the relevant rules, and I believe that they are shockingly drafted and ambiguous. That makes them hard to enforce. I further think that the rules have to be interpreted in such a way as to only allow a charge to stick if there is direct evidence, and I can't see how they would have enough direct evidence. If they do, then we are idiots and we deserve what we get. My reading of how this will pan out is that there is too much at stake for tanking claims to be made out. The AFL is complicit, the persons involved would have no choice but to go to court, and the odds that one of Bailey, Connolly, Schwab or the MFC would challenge the process in the Supreme Court are too high for the AFL to gamble with. There is too big a chance that the AFL would lose in Court, and the consequences of that would be potentially catastrophic for the AFL from an interity, publicity and legal viewpoint. Therefore, this is the AFL press conference: "The AFL takes the integrity of the game extremely seriously and considers integrity of our sport to be the most important asset we have. As a result of various comments made by players and coaches, as you are aware, the AFL commenced an investigation into allegations that the Melbourne Football Club breached the AFL's integrity rules. We have thoroughly and painstakingly investigated this issue, and we make no apology for the amount of time that this investigation has taken, because it is fundamental that we get this right. The AFL, through its independent intergity officers Haddad and Clothier, who I congratulate for doing an outstanding job, presented the Melbourne Football Club conducted over X interviews with current and former players, coaches and administrators. As a result of this thorough and robust process, the AFL presented the Melbourne Football Club with a report that was over 1,000 pages long. The report contained circumstances arising from the investigation relating to the 2009 Toyota AFL Premiership season in particular. The Melbourne Football Club formally responded to the matters contained in the report. The AFL has taken the report, together with the response of the Melbourne Football Club, to our Commission for consideration. Following this comprehensive investigation, the AFL has found that the Melbourne Football Club did not breach the AFL integrity rules. I will say that the AFL was concerned that some of the conduct of Officers of the Melbourne Football Club skated very close to the edge, and the Melbourne Football Club should very seriously consider the type of culture it wishes to create in order to be successful on-field. The AFL further notes that we have made substantial changes to the draft system between 2009 and today, including most importantly to compensation picks to ensure that incentives align with the integrity of the same. I would like to again congratulate all parties, in particular Haddad and Clothier, for this exhaustive investigation. The integrity of the AFL draft and system is the single most important priority, and the AFL remains absolutely steadfast to ensure the continued protection of the integrity of the game." There.... how did I go?!

Your "opinion" lacked judgment. You got it wrong. Then again, you weren't the only one. The original thread went for pages and pages debating the issue, but I suspect that most who were up in arms will be eerily silent now. That's the way life works.

Well to be honest Im still trying to process all of this. its a bit like a kid who's had 6 months to do his Science project and turns up with a cornflake packet and some toilet rolls barely held together with some tape and trying to pass it off as Robbie the robot !! Are they serious Has Finks stopped laughing yet ?

We were ahead of the curve anticipating that the AFL is going to restrict rotations - we wanted to be the first and best prepared.

You've pushed me over the edge. Next paycheck, i'm buying a membership!

I stated my opinion if you'd already backtracked on yours good on you. It's hard work keeping up with the crud you post. In case you forgot this is what you originally posted. We can't afford our expensive legal fees let alone anyone elses

I'm pretty sure there have been more than a few repeat posts in more than 53 pages of literature.

I reckon if you read through this thread you'd find there are more posts attacking other posters than there are discussing and defending the club and I fully expect to get attacked for posting this. The off season, it seems, is used to get all your paybacks in order.

Thanks for the sage advice Biffo. However, bars of soap have particular concerns and I'll be avoiding them. Truth to tell - I'm hoping to get a glimpse of BH - I guessing he will have a bright aura and 1000's of disciples at his feet.

He should be working harder than a bar of soap in the Castlemaine Health Spa on his disposal efficiency. I hope you can handle the big city by yourself . Watch out for rats and cockroaches-Collingwood and Richmond may be training nearby.

This suggestion of intentional 'fumbles' is really quite embarrassing for the AFL . The 3 minutes that mattered ... The players association could step in here and it casts a huge slur on any player involved in the now infamous 'Fumbling fiasco' or 'Fumble-gate'. The accusation is so ludicrous that it's quite amusing . Is there a fumble count ? Is the opposition team allowed to fumble in the same 'said' 3 minutes . Can we pluck other 3 minute periods of games where there were more fumbles? It's so stupid it's laughable . Who were the chief perpetrators of these 'fumbles' ? Did the Tigers have a bigger fumble 'count' in other 3 minute periods' ?

"Sources close to the AFL confirm that they are investigating the coin toss before the Round 18 game against Richmond in 2009. According to statements made by people interviewed for the investigation, captain James McDonald was told to pick heads instead of his usual tails. Also according to the testimony, McDonald was under pressure to switch to heads after heated discussions held in the room called 'The Vault' by Chris Connolly who reminded everyone in the room of the importance in picking heads for the coin toss, thus limiting Melbourne's chances to kick with the breeze in the 1st quarter and create a lead that would be sustained to win the game" Seriously what else are the AFL going to accuse us of next? The trumpeter being off key which annoyed the players so much they weren't thinking straight thus fumbling the ball more than usual? Ronald Dee Barassi playing in the ruck instead of Paul Johnson?

Why is it so silly? At that precise moment Dean probably thought his AFL career was looking fairly thin...That he was diplomatic i applaud. But if Schwab & Mclardy had flanked him one of them could have fielded the question & i doubt this looming court case would be happening. Yes you do not burn your bridges when leaving, But the MFC abandoned him at that point. Not the way i would do my business.

- Neil: re Boxing Day incident there won't be any penalty applied to players and clarifies they weren't evicted. Rightly so - gross over reaction on the part of the media and many forum posters.

billy there are injuries and there are injuries there are also injuries they don't want to advertise how often do we find out only after the season that player x played all year with an injury how often do we hear of injured players 'managed' during the season bottom line is injury reports do not always tell the full story of course if these ones do happen to back up the rotations then well and good

"As per AFL Regulation 19 (A5), tanking is defined as "a person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match – or in relation to any aspect for the match, for any reason whatsoever". By the AFL's own definition Schwab and Connolly have a strong case to defend, in that they weren't employed as coaches, or assistant coaches. It may be technical, but it's also fact.

As it doesn't really relate to the Tanking case, here are the tweets: - Neil: the way the players have attacked training has been up another level. - Neil: Next Monday, the majority of rehab players will be back on the track excluding Clark and Trengove. - Neil: re Boxing Day incident there won't be any penalty applied to players and clarifies they weren't evicted. - Neil says the speculation about tanking has had minimal effect on training and elite preparation. - Neil says whilst there is a sense of urgency to resolve the tanking issues, it won't be rushed. - Re: new leadership group. Neil says all members will need to lead by example and provide leadership in decision making. - Neil says the last 12 months has partially been about educating players about what is required to achieve the ultimate success in AFL. - Neil Craig's press conference has now finished and will be on http://melbournefc.com.au shortly

This is what happens when Stuie is not around to keep us on track.

So based on this definition of tanking the Tigers tanked against Gold Coast this year. The last 3 minutes of that was described by the commentators as the worst 3 minutes of football they'd seen - the fumble count was off the charts! Tanking?

MFC should kick in and assist DB with his legal defense and costs, he is only incurring these because he was our coach at the time, so is the only reason he requires a lawyer. The failure to protect employees (he was at the time) will make others wonder if MFC will look after them if they have problems. As for the article, interesting there are leaks and of the 800 page report the best the can come up with is referring to secret (weekly) meetings in the VAULT!!!! and 3 minutes of a game we almost won. The number of rotations I find interesting in that the investigators must have asked about injuries etc so should have factored that into the number of rotations, leaking it means the press can have a bit of a field day on it until the MFC responds with the details on injuries etc. How many of these other 800 pages is devoted to the Richmond game. I love the bit where they could not get anyone to confirm that players deliberately fumbled... how can someone make such a stupid statement to believe in the heat of battle where you are just ahead on the scoreboard someone says to themselves that they better fumble so that we can loose. Does anyone really expect that highly competitive players would rollover for what, so MFC can get another pick, does anyone really think players playing for their spot on next years roster thinks that. If the AFL is going to take the last 3 minutes of the Melbourne Richmond game as a benchmark then how would the Carlton/Melbourne game the year before stand scrutiny, surely there must be 30seconds or more of inappropriate activity there. The AFL only opens itself up to further scrutiny taking this approach. sadly melbourne cannot win this, sure we might beat the AFL and not loose draft picks, but other areas where we have received financial assistance will eventually suffer. End of the day someone from the club needs to write up a credible defense and sit down the with AFL and do a deal to close this out before it goes to court, as neither of us wins if that is the case. And if the truth be told no one cares except Caro and a few journo's who have nothing better to do with their time.

Really got to feel for the kid, absolute tragedy, nice kid and really dedicated. David Parkin was only on the radio yesterday saying how he had some discussions with Morabito during his rehab and he had known him from the age of 15 when he assisted his(Morabito's) local club Harvey Bulls in tough times. Parko spoke of how positive Morabito had been during his rehab. I know from speaking with recruiters in WA that halfway through 2009, Trengove had not really shown much an we all know how well he finished off the year. At that stage I was told Scully and Morabito would be heading to Melbourne if we managed to get a priority pick. Well we all know what happened with OUR FUMBLING managing to get us a priority pick and now we end up with Trengove and neither Scully or Morabito at the Dees. Just hope somehow the kid can lift himself again and get through this latest setback. In full flight he is a joy to watch.

Rock Bottom . If it didn't happen we may have kept muddling along listening to the players feelings on how much they would like to train and what position they want to play. Let's remember that under Bailey ,the players could ring in sick if they didn't wish to attend training . That said , Bailey was the only coach we could afford .I dont believe he has implicated any of us and I hope none of our people have implicated him . The other disgruntled ex players/staff dont count and their evidence would be virtually worthless.

Perhaps not worth starting a new thread for (mods?), but news from today's 3k Time Trial: Melbourne Football Club Christopher José Cincotta we like to keep the times in house but the top places, in order are: Dan Nicholson, Tom McDonald, Rohan Bail, Jordie McKenzie, Nathan Jones, Joel Macdonald and Dom Barry. And further ... Jay Clark ‏@ClarkyHeraldSun Dees time trail first home Dan Nicholson (9min22) and Tom McDonald. At Princes Park. Jay Clark ‏@ClarkyHeraldSun Young Dee Jack Viney in super nick. Finished 8th in about 10min15sec. All set for a big first year.

No i won't

2-3 seasons ago i would have told you that jones was an average kick, with poor awareness and terrible decision making ability. Now days i'd say he has all 3 under control. AFL players train alot; its not unrealistic to expect a player to be able to improve their kicking.

Fumbling? If that is a punishable crime the dees have been guilty of it for the last decade or so. What's next - kicks form the back line missing targets on the way resulting in turnover goals? Geez we be stripped of our draft picks for the next 20 years!

Turn up dressed the same as your avatar. I'm sure someone will guide you there if you ask nicely.

This is right on the mark. To say we will eventually be cleared is beside the point- the direct and indirect costs of this ill-conceived fiasco have already been substantial.Put 4-5 senior lawyers in room for a day - and you won't get much change out $10K. But that's only the tip of the iceberg.Let's summarise to date 1. Direct legal costs of $200k plus 2. Opportunity cost of distraction to Community Relations Manager. How much goodwill ( and potential monies)will CC have been able to generate in the last 5 months? 3. Opportunity cost of distraction to CEO . How much has this distraction affected Casey negotiations, the development of strategic alliances etc? 4. Loss of Members Fees including interest for delays while concern over draft picks etc 5. Potential loss of sponsorship through doubts on club integrity etc The AFL has adversely affected our ability to compete in the ruthless financial and PR market that it has created. If it finds us not guilty then it is morally obliged to compensate us. The club is not in a position to say this - but someone with clout has to if any justice is to be served.

As in many disputes, the only winners may turn out to be the lawyers.

i get the feeling that if we are eventually cleared of any charges we will have been punished anyway the cost of time, focus, bad publicity and legal fees will be substantial the afl are also increasingly looking bad db is likely to have a big hole in his pocket looks like losers all round - thanks Angry, Kero et al

'Warnie must not have been thinking' Not sure he has a lot to work with.

I really hope it doesnt - I would like to see victory without humliation of the AFL. Whilst every fibre of me screams out to sue the bastards for muddying our name etc etc I think it would be more prudent to be humble victors as we should remember that this is the hand that feeds us and I would not like to see passive aggressiveness towards us from our lords and masters (do not read this as backing away from fighting if charges are laid - I say go to the privvy council if necessary)

Fan , I will agree with you on a point. That it all starts from the desired result and worked backwards. What I'm starting to concern myself over is that quite possibly they ( the AFL ) aren't as clever as they would have themselves be and might get stuck. Too clever by half ? The AFL want , if fact NEED this dead and buried, permanently. Dilligence must be perceived to have occurred. It is after all theatre so its about appearances.

I've said all along that the AFL will reverse engineer this and that it is in everyone's best interest for this to just go away. We've been investigated for months now so nobody could say the AFL has ignored the issue. But the "evidence" or "accusations" are so weak as to be meaningless. I think that just about everyone knows the AFL couldn't prove tanking on a rotations basis, positional move basis, selection policy basis or, for heavens sakes, fumbles. How many similar circumstances could MFC come up with to show they were "normal". My view is this is the first step in showing the footy world that the MFC didn't tank. It's carefully planned and will probably coincide with a "no case to answer" finding on the Friday before the Aussi Tennis Open finals. But I do have one major concern. In one article I read it said that the AFL was closed until Monday so you'd think that this leak comes from our side in which case it would be selectively positive towards our cause. These articles make no mention of the "vault" meeting or the alleged meeting between Schwab and Bailey and seem to good to be true. If it walk and talks like a duck....

stop the presses! demonland poster accused of being over the top in their views AFL integrity commission to investigate. results expected in 6 months

get over yourself B_H remove tickets also

Actually, what we cant afford is to have a disparate or splintered front in this matter. He was after all a Melbourne employee at teh time. I would have thought we had some sense of duty , if only minor. You want to take the scumbag approach, well.

Think at the time was the second fastest on our list, and resting rucks in the forward and back pockets has been part of Aussie Rules since i was a kid.....

Well you'll note the charges reported ... Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-charges-revealed-20130107-2ccw7.html#ixzz2HQGcX2wP Only Bailey is alleged to be charged under that rule.

Funny coincidence Jade Rawlings was the opposition Coach in the Richmond Game lol.

The Great Contrarian strikes again! lol We had injured players, and that means less rotations. We also had no depth, which means less rotations. This is embarrassing for the AFL is that is all they have. I agree with Jose that surely this isn't it?! I said before that Clothier and Haddad have not shown a great deal o understanding of footy with the questions they have asked - this latest news nicely suits that idea. Surely they have more than positional moves, Schwab's ashen face, and fewer rotations?! Unless the AFL plan to throw Clothier under the bus at the next Committee meeting? "We find nothing in the evidence presented by the investigation that hasn't been answered satisfactorily by the MFC, all charges are dropped and the matter resolved."

ACL injurys are almost impossible to prevent, can strengthen the surrounding muscles, but when it wants to go its gunna go! The latest hamstring injury is almost a given for ACL recoveries too! Hopefully he has put enough work into the rest of his body, and can now work on his legs, can could be a contender for the 22 mid season! While no David Schwartz like tragedy yet, as a fellow ACL'er, I hate seeing young guys do their knees, as it can be so hard to come back from! He is a cult figure, and will get a huge response from the fans, and the players a boost too, upon his return! Good luck maxy

It's worth it, even if you're overseas. I'm a member and I also live in North America. I think I pay something like $9/mo which isn't much at all in the grand scheme of things.