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The major problem I have with the investigation/inquisition/kangaroo court is that 2012 rules are being applied to 2009 happenings. In 2009 all of this was considered OK and within the rules that applied at the time and still do outside of Caro and these so-called integrity officers. Even worse is that the weakest animal in the herd has been singled out for this retrospective application. Total [censored]. If Vlad and his cronies (Fitzpatrick et al) were fair dinkum an amnesty as suggested by Mark Fine would take place so all clubs perceived of 'tanking' could be looked at and a clear set of rules on what is and what is not tanking can be devised, plus the introduction of a lottery for the first 10 draft picks (all teams that missed the finals). The lottery might happen but I have no faith that any of the rest will. I also want to know who has sold out the club during the 'investigation'.

The Melbourne Football Club has a proud record of past players who fought for and in some cases died for our country but fair dinkum there are some people who these days call themselves supporters that you wouldn't want to be with in the trenches.

Morning Demonlanders! Due to the heat i couldn't sleep and finished my first Demons video. Hope you all like it and it gets you fired up for 2013! CARN THE DEES!

A consideration for those rushing to ridicule both the notion and by inference the noters , of any less than pristine governance and direction by the AFL is the simple reality that the whole competition and its running (at afl level ) is PURE manipulation. So why is it really such a stretch to invite the thinking that some elements and some governors cross that line differentiating what is acceptable and what ought not be. Keep in mind it's only the AFL itself that defines not only the qualities of that line but where it exists. The org is run by people. People are fallible. Since the year dot.

Those most keen to suggest all conspiracies and claims of corruption are rubbish often have self-interested reasons for pushing that view - usually because they support the status quo. A more balanced view is that there are many true examples as history often reveals, but clearly not as many as conspiracy crazies believe. Claims can only be judged on the evidence available. That includes lack of action as well as actions taken.

Not just scrutiny avoided but recipients of blatant favouritism (visa deal Judd) Even Eddy can't fathom that one. It's all Kosher and straight up and down at the AFL. Governments , quangos, clubs and companies have all succumbed to corruption. The IOC is built on it..... And somehow the AFL flies in clean air ?? Yeah right

the whole football public knows that at least 6 clubs 'list managed' their way to priority picks over the last 10 years or so it also knows the afl somewhat condoned list management practices that were marginal if the mfc end up wearing all the blame that will not sit well with fans in general when the dust settles the afl would be deluding themselves if they think making an example of the mfc will settle the issue and make it all go away regardless of whether the penalties are heavy or light i trust (hope) the fink will aid the afl to come up with a better solution that keeps everyone (well most) somewhat satisfied and we can all move on

you'll have to use a bigger hook than that mjt - lol anyway

You couldn't handle the truth.

OldDee, as I've posted earlier, that is true if, for example, you get pinged for speeding and the next car does not. You have no relationship to the other driver. But the situation is significantly different in the AFL where we directly compete with other clubs under the AFL's system. The AFL cannot investigate and punish us (severely) without investigating other breaches which have as much initial evidence as McLean provided. My hope is that they give us a slap on the wrists so that we (or any real journalist if there are any) won't feel tempted to demand a widening of their investigation to other clubs.

Indivduals should not be singled out.....We are, after all, a club....Are we not????.....Should certain individuals be charged then we must stick by them at all costs.......Hanging them out to dry for decisions made by the CLUB, for the club to get a softer penalty, is just a cop out.

" I don't think we have any rights to know who said what and IMO it would be quite wrong for that information to be available." Why would Fan say this? Let us not forget he is also a moderator of this site. Is it because he has himself been interviewed in this sordid affair? I do not know the answer, but it is a very strange statement to make...He is either taking the p!ss or beginning to get very worried about his own little world. As a member of this club for many years i want to know who said what to whoever...i want it all out in the open so this club can grow upright as it should..Jimma started the process but it is far from finished... The people who wish to bring this club down will be smoked out....

Worsfold is a qualified pharmacist. Makes it even more ridiculous that he claimed he had no idea the players were on the gear.

mjt I have no idea why you think people on Demonland cannot handle the truth. If we could not handle the truth we would have all stopped following the Dees years ago. The truth has been ugly for most of the last 48 years but here we still are.

the kitchen wettex...

hahaha well i didn't want to congratulate them too much they already have big enough heads and we won't get into wisconsin jokes

ok you're spared but the price is eternal slavery ok mfc take him away no not you bbo.....i said mfc

Russian is going to struggle with the change to the ruck rules. He depends on bodying and engaging the opposition, and unfortunately does not jump off the ground any more. Cox, Natanui and in particular Sandilands are going to monster the competition this year, simply because of their height.

Jamar looked slow and heavy last year. Frawley was well down on his best also. If the get back to their best we could be in for a good year.

I have a problem with the notion of anyone getting penalised if they, or we as a club, are not actually guilty of anything.

Sanctions handed down to individuals would still hurt the club if they weren't guilty of anything substantial . As an example - Connolly . All we know so far are the 'jocular' comments that he allegedly made . If he were to be punished for just those comments and we didn't stand by him then we'd lose a lot of face - which in turn would damage the club . I'm with Bossdog on this - there can be no expendables (unless they've done the wrong thing) Those calling for individuals heads (and I'm not suggesting that you are one of them) are patently wrong at this stage . Connolly and Schwab have done nothing wrong (that we know of) .

Exciting run-n-gun footy might have been appealing to (some of) the supporters, when we won, but the problem was that in the main we weren't competitive, and any fool could see it. The game plan saw us play with an incredible offensive focus, so if we won all the clearances, we dominated poor teams, but against a quality team we'd always get slaughtered, because we made no effort to set up a defensive safeguard. The very epitome of front-runners. And still, after all this time, you don't get it... Some may have missed it, but there were a few wise heads who recognised at the time what a predicament we were in, and the work we still had in front of us. I'm sad to say, I was not one of them.

Why so? If any accusation is made, the club and by extension, its supporters have the right to know what was said and who said it, that's just the basic principle of any law, outside some third World Country that is. If someone accused you of committing a crime don't you think you have the right to know just who it was and what he said you did? The club are owed the right to face and question their accusers. Would you personally have any worry if the accusers are named? You have to make a choice, you either align your allegiance to your friend Bailey or to the MFC, you can't have it both ways; make a choice.

Morton has the chance to make some on here eat their words..... He looks bigger, but not by much..... He will get a lot bigger and stronger...... and in two years he will dominate....... there will be people on here crying, then blaming the FD..... He has more skill than he is given credit for on here......

IMO those who want to abandon our boys to fitzpatricks firing squad, should suffer a similar fate. people who jump in the deep end on my behalf, Will have my loyalty.

of course. But the longer he stays the further 2007 goes away.

We are learning, and we now have The Fink. Funny how the ball game changed after we got him. This is how the games played. You only play it for keeps. The filth do and so should we.

What I really like about the above debate, is that we are having a genuine discussion about who will fill the defence 6. It seems we may have actual competition for spots down back. I'm loving this as it demonstrates that we are becoming a professional unit.

So whats not to handle? He was like all of us, human. A much better human than most but still a human.

I love this bloke. For any NBA fans the Charlotte Bobcats one is bloody funny.

Yeah, what is it ? 13 times World Champions (apparently the Yanks have their own version of the 'World') Nice to see you on the thread 'dc' . Are you gonna stick around ? You're not concerned about being labelled one of those 'Other thread' people ? Btw, my guess is there are a lot of 'landers that are NFL fans . Even old dee 'Came out' and admitted to being a Bears fan ... Maybe an NFL 'Poll' will bring more out ?

i went out with "Crystal" ladies when you were in primary school Biff. First time i went to Daylesford it was cheap. Good pub roast was on to!

i had a dog that did that. but she became a football writer at the age

Well personally, I've never believed in sparing the rod!

I dont think its I who's gullible here mjt, of course you have your own flavour of herrings to cook, barrow to push , flag to fly.,....you choose !! Funny how sfa has happened to Carlscum whilst Fitzy been on watch. Thats not just my observation, nor WYL ( whos quite capable of his own vocals and thoughts , and catergorically not of mine ) To think that such things dont ever happen is quite frankly stupid.

Youre dead right...its just purely coincindental isnt it !!

God I love Neitz's bump and goal. And that pass by Yze....

The rules haven't changed all that much.....Now, you cannot touch (westle jostle ect) untill the ball has left the umpires hand, after that it reverts back......So that Jamar can do what he has always done against the taller ruckmen....Just has to be a bit smarter about it...

Carlton will not get done whilst Fitzpatrick is leading the commission. It won't happen.

Joel Mac obviously shops at Chakra in Acland St and has an old van with street graffiti on the outside. Nothing to worry about...

sorry?The truth is what i would like to know. Love Jack's work by the way...

Calling what we might have done or what other clubs might have done a 'crime' is a bit of a 'stretch' old dee . There's no doubt that if this saga ends up in court then the example like the Richmond one that I've highlighted will/can be referenced . That's part of this huge can of worms that will be opened . Can you be penalised for a misdemeanor if that same misdemeanor is 'rubber stamped' as not guilty by the authorities at the same time? It just doesn't make sense . You can't really have 2 different rules that govern the exact or almost the exact same circumstances - the AFL would find that out if it went to court .

IMHO Biffen we are going to be issued with steep fines. Who pays is another matter.

I get it perfectly, Bailey was a [censored] coach, but ironically we had a 2010 season that made the MFC members jump out of their seats and enjoy their footy between rounds 3-19, 2010. You can't deny we were competitive in 2010.

What I find so offensive with some posts, is that some back CW and her informants/people before they back the club. Its a simple as that really. Some may have had a close liking or affilliation to previous administrations and they may have a bad taste in his mouth for the way they were treated, but whatever axe these ppl have to grind is not important. Time to get back to why you support the club. Its about a passion and love for the game and club. I see this as akin to a family member. You love them first, flaws and all. The rest is not as important!!! Yes, I have read many bias posts supporting the club. They hang on to information in support of the club because they love the club, worts and all. Some posters also has a history of attacking the club. This issue, this current administration and Mark Neeld are other topics that I have read Fan talk about and he has spoken about these areas in a negative light. Even when backing Neelds change of the list recently, Fan said he will come back at Neeld if the changes fail. I say, back the club because you love it. If the club is guilty, so are others and it would be completely unfair for the MFC to be hung out to dry. CW may be good at her job (compared to others), but she is attcking something I love and therefore I will not back her. simple Having said this, I think the club has not broken any AFL policy/rules. I would be more than happy for the club to ask the AFL for compensation for the club being taken through the ringers. Mud Sticks!

Dee-tox: generally poor summer of posting, needs to work much harder on the track

Is it too much for the following question to be asked of the AFL by the MFC? "Why after clearing us at the time, have you launched another investigation purely on the say so of a former disgruntled player, who never said we tanked, but rather that the club was experimenting and not making winning the be all and end all, yet not investigated other clubs whose coach, assistant coach and players have said their clubs tanked to get draft picks and certain players"? Next question, "why have you singled out the MFC alone, for this lengthy, costly, disruptive, heavy handed investigation"?

Haha this is gold! Translation: "I've been told things, so take it from me this is truth... although I don't know if it's true or not"

Remember these Famous Words from Andrew Demetriou “My view is that (tanking) hasn’t existed, that people have experimented, list management, whatever you want to call it.” If I’m proven to be wrong, that’s fine by me because – if someone wants to come forward and provide evidence – then we should investigate it,” Demetriou told Fox Footy Andrew Demetriou is expected to outline tomorrow sanctions that will apply to the MFC if tanking allocations are proven true The following is expected to apply Loss of one Firstround pick from 2009 , The coach involved during the tanking period will leave the Melbourne Football Club Those ex Players that tanked during this period will also leave the club. The clubs fitness coach and fitness boss at the time of the tanking event will also leave the MFC Club And last but not least The MFC will forfiet all Finals Premiership points it has won since the Tanking affair is deemed to have occured I think the above penalties are more than Fair