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Some people here should give it a break. Whatever one might think about his coaching, Dean Bailey gave his all for the club and put its interests over and above his own. He has a lot more class than some of the whiners who would attack him. The inquisition has been an insult to the club and the people involved because we clearly followed the appropriate guidelines and did exactly what other clubs (none of who have been investigated or interrogated) have done before us. We've been discriminated against in a disgusting way and if anybody's integrity is open to question over this saga then it has to be that of the AFL.

I thought I would start a thread to express my well wishes. Firstly to Andy and Jack for putting up with all the crap and bickering etc that we all serve up from time to time. But more to the point, for keeping d'land enjoyable, well run, and their input to making this site what it is today. To all the Mods, that try to keep us honest and 'try' keep everyone on the straight and narrow. A special mention also to KC, for his updates, hard work in keeping us informed with whats happening at Casey FC. Knowing the scores during the season, as well as the information on how the MFC boys are performing is always welcome. He does a great job, Thank you! To everyone else as well, have a Merry Xmas, and great New Year. Lets hope we see our team make a big move up the ladder. Also I should make mention, thanking the MFC, without them we wouldnt have a team. Some snoop around here, perhaps under an alias, so good luck and thank you for the contributions during this year and beyond. Its been a tough year, as we all know. We whine and gripe, but some have had a tougher year than us. While we celebrate our Xmas, and see the joy on the faces on kids opening their presents, take a moment to think of those that will be missing loved ones that have passed during this year. We know who they are, we won't forget them.

Thankfully, I know nothing about the shenanigans that go on in horse racing but I'm aware that since much of that sport is connected with the gambling that's part and parcel of the racing industry, there's always been a level of dishonesty and corruption associated with it (and that's not necessarily a comment on Mr. Smerdon and the bag of money story).Sadly, the AFL in paying lip service to the interests of the gambling element that's taken growth in our game, has gone down the slippery slope of conducting a discriminatory, gutter level inquisition into one club that is going to turn the sport into a laughing stock. It took the AFL no less than 5½ months at great expense to carry it out but 15 minutes to quiz Tony Liberatore when he alleged tanking and probably no more time to deal with Paul Roos' "joking" that a player shouldn't be kicking goals in a NAB Cup game. Why for instance, should Dean Bailey have to engage a lawyer (most of us are expensive) to defend himself when he's been through this before while Terry Wallace whose own words are tantamount to an admission of the breach of the AFL's rules and Brett Ratten most of whose six games at the end of 2007 as coach were far more questionable, are left untouched? I hope the AFL does the right thing out of this and reimburses Bailey (and the MFC for that matter) his legal expenses at the end of all this.

God you are all a pack of old farts (apolgies to dof). Let them have a bit of fun because there is no more fun to be had after 7 Jan

If there is breaking news on a topic that inhabits an existing long thread I think there is value in it being posted in a new thread. Some readers may have given up following the often repetitive posts in the original thread and may miss the new development. The trick is to avoid the 'breaking news' thread from becoming a new place to post on the topic (or even to stop it becoming a place to post opinions about thread management...)

*you're*

wow you must hate life

Dean Bailey. One of the only people who would go through all that he did and still say this. I always liked DB, what's done is done and I really like MN too. Unlike some recent people on DL I'll never compare the two. Long story short - if I ever see Dean Bailey at a pub I'd buy him a pint... And I'm pretty stingy with my money.

Irrespective of his results whilst at our club Dean Bailey always struck me as a stand up guy. I hope that remains so.

Is that the same Nathan Jones that so many on here wanted to get rid of a couple of years ago?

Forgot an important "g"

We're all entitled to a "view" here but I think you'll find that people jumped on him for attacking the CEO who wasn't the person who was responsible for the way in which Dean Bailey's sacking occurred.I take your point that some at the club might have said something at some stage about tanking. I don't know. However, it is absurd to suggest that Carlton is not being investigated because "nobody ever said anything". Libba said something. Fev said something. Those things have been well documented in the past. A then Carlton Football Club member told me in late 2007 that Carlton was sending Fev off to surgery early because they had no interest in winning any of the remaining games because the Blues were after a big fish and also wanted Kreuzer. If the AFL was honest, it would have would widened the inquisition to involve several other clubs that were in the same position as us and that really didn't try hard to win matches with priority picks seemingly the aim. I don't agree that our behaviour was any different to that of other clubs. The matter was brought to a head because of consistent efforts from some within the media to highlight Melbourne and Melbourne alone. The fact that the three supposedly experienced wise heads who questioned McLean that night didn't question why he went to a club that picked up three #1 draft picks in a row when he was so principled about leaving a team that "experimented" says everything to me.

Interesting who I saw out last night where I was. McLean was there ... and a few of the Melbourne players were there. Let's just say they were standing nowhere near each other - I was happy to see that!

I don't know what the hell some people expect - do you really think the club are going to bring in Judd Apatow on this project?? I enjoyed it for what it is; a cheesy xmas video where the players act like geese for the enjoyment of the supporters. If you're someone who is overly critical of this vid, maybe the problem is your own unrealistic expectations...

I always enjoy the Christmas video no matter how corny it may be. Max Gawn was gold!

Lets put this in context re the tanking issue. Bailey as Coach could be charged as he fits within the category of person named in Section 19A of the AFL rules. It now appears certain he will deny any wrongdoing. Demetriou has said any person in the category found guilty of tanking will be thrown out of the game forever. Do you see that happening to Bailey? It would therefore appear to get up on a charge under the rule the AFL must find a Coach or player guilty of throwing games. Based on what we know we can discard that happening to a player. It therefore seems that if we are to go down so must Bailey. Bailey through his lawyer stated his innocence and denied any wrongdoing. I don't know what he said to the Inquisitors who Interrogated him, according to his lawyer, rather than interviewed him, but I am happy to assume he has not admitted tanking. What then is the evidence against him? It was suggested that he changed his game style after being directed to lose. His lawyer said he did the same as all other coaches in charge of a team that can't make the finals. Demetriou has also said this numerous times. If he denies tanking what then is the evidence he did? If the AFL persist with this disgraceful witch hunt, while not doing the same to other clubs and with 2 in particular who have had coaches and players admit breaches of the rule, I can see this costing the jobs of more senior AFL staff. I can see a long Court action looming where a Judge admonishes the AFL in its handling of the whole affair. As a result senior people in the AFL would have to go. Remember the clubs appoint the Commission and even it can be sacked. This could blow the lid off the game and do untold damage. As a result I see no charges being laid against the club or any of its officers.

*they're*

Heard from who? Then this... every post on a forum is a rumor

exactly right Macca. It is what i was intermating in my first post on this topic. You just said it better. Right now we need Dean on side & he needs us.

That stupid comment sums up in many ways why the club is in its current predicament.The sacking of Bailey was carried out by the Board and not by the CEO and therefore the question as to whether Brian Cook could have handled it better is moot. However, there have always been snipers around the club who take every opportunity to take aim at Cameron Schwab in an effort to bring him down. Many people have pointed to McLean's appearance on Foxtel that night as having been set up by those who wanted to prevent the club from extending his contract. Indeed, that programme was barely over when snide comments about him were posted on this site.* Those with vendettas against individuals involved at the club would be well advised to shut their traps. You, mjt are just stupid.

I don't share Whispering's sentiments, or the Bailey love in general. He was a crap coach and unnecessarily put the club in the line of fire during his final press conference. The club was also hopeless with how they handled that press conference. Bailey could have been completely dismissive of Mark Robinson's questions and he chose not to be, which is why his answers get reported on the news to this day. He may have put the club first during his four years, but I expect nothing less from a senior coach.

In something of an anti-climax, it appears that the world did not end yesterday, life goes on and the lads will be back at training on 7 January, 2013 after all. I'm sure I speak for most Demonlanders who, for whatever reason, simply can't make it down to training and therefore gain so much enjoyment from reading the reports of those who are fortunate enough to get there. Stay safe over the break and see ya in January!

I thought the video was pretty good. It was a lot better then last year. Some people also need to remember that not every dee's supporter is 80 years old and hates the world. My kids have watched the video about 20 times and they laugh everytime.

Yeah, I agree with you. I never check the tanking thread. Since a lot of it is just speculation of what might happen etc. But if something new happens I like seeing a thread about it to give an update.

Where have you been for the last three years? He did not walk. Three years ago when his contract was up he told Adelaide to trade him because he didn't want to be there, they offered him big $$$ to stay and he said OK but only for three years and then I want out to the club of my choice and Adelaide agreed. Now at the end of three years he wants Adelaide to stick to their agreement. You are the type of person who should not be allowed to belong to any forum ie people who make nasty comments without knowing what they are talking about. Resign and get a life away from here.

well said PJ.

I vaguely remember McLean saying something about how he felt sorry for Baily during his time coaching, I wander how he feels now that he's rained this s-storm on him?

He did what was best for the club and his career suffered because of it. In his final presser he said he put the club in the best position for draft picks. That isn't revelatory or damning - it is what teams do in losing seasons in a draft regulated sport. The sooner the wider football media realise this and get the pole out of their collective rectums the happier the partners of these losers would be at home while having to listen to their inane prattle.

Good turnout from the Demon supporters to watch the final session. Much more so than Collingwood who were on the oval before us, and Essendon who followed. We didn't have use of the main ground, as Victory were using it. Not much really to report as things seemed to be a little less intense than previous sessions and there would have to have been some respite after Darwin. Points: * a player reported that for the Darwin sessions 7 minutes was the maximum allowed before rehydrating/cooling down. That surely puts a lot more stress and requirements than poncing around in Arizona! * the players were put through a series of shuttle runs AFTER running a couple of laps of the oval, and some serious sprint and warm-ups.. Standouts were Gillies and Davis? Special mention to Spencer and Fitzpatrick who were still around near the end. * Grimes running laps. Fairly freely and getting lots of encouragement from the rest of the team as he passed by on each lap. Hamstring and quad recovery apparently. * Watts, Gawn, Dawes, Dunn, Nicholson on another oval in rehab. * Clark back in moon boot, but probably to protect the foot after removing the staples this week. Also has lost his beard. * Howe trying to sell his car, after winning a new Toyota for mark of the year. Said he needed a new one ... looking forward to next year's model as well ... * a few rucking/clearance exercises to finish, but nothing as stenuous as what Misson is putting them through. * another player reported that the work rate is up 30% on last year. Given that was up 30% on the previous, it should show in the fitness levels in 2013 OR we were REALLY bad when Misson first arrived.

Got there 40 minutes late. The following is not in order of what I saw. I'm just compiling this as I go. Talk was good. Much more than the last time I watched training and that was late November in 2011. Mark Neeld not present. (I couldn't spot him) As I walked to the oval, on the rugby pitch Watts, Dunn, Grimes, Taggert and Dawes were doing interval sprints the length of the field. Jamar, Clisby and Toumpas ran laps around them at slow pace. Dunn looks like a true athlete; has definition. Clark sat down with the meds on the boundary line in a moonboot and crutches as expected. Looked happy. Left at about 10:20. Dawes, Gawn (who has bulked up a bit) and Grimes ran laps on Gosch's Paddock at the back end of the session at decent nip. Dawes looks trimmer than last season. The tape on his right knee will be a mainstay as support for his ACL injury early in his career I assume. Aaron Davey looks sharp. Dom Barry has got potential. He moves gracefully and kicks very well. Nathan Jones is easily the best player on the list. Colin Sylvia looks good but seemed like he was giving ¾ or ½ effort throughout. But I did enjoy seeing him teach Matt Jones where to run when the mids were doing a stoppage drill. Good to see him showing some leadership. Speaking of M Jones he moves well and has a decent kick. Lean and tall (a better Gysberts?). Terlich, Stark, Clisby, Viney, Toumpas, Gawn, Taggert and Evans did handballs and short kicking for 20-40 minutes. Evans then joined in the main session doing set shots when this ended. There was a full ground transition drill which occured twice. The ball started 20-30 metres out on the boundary in backline. Kick went to a leading mid from the centre of the ground who then handballed to a running player who switched the ball to the opposite HBF. The next kick was down the line to a spreading mid and the mid then delivered into the fwd line to Pedersen/Tapscott/Byrnes/Davey/Howe/Blease. There were crumbers at some stages (Blease and Byrnes). Ball movement was good but the kick down the line missed the target a little too much for my liking. David Rodan will be a bargain pick up or the club. Great talker and encourager and has still got it from what I saw. Pedersen is a big bloke and should be handy in 2013. Shannon Byrnes is pacy and has a really good nouse for positioning himself for the crumbs but misses a lot of opportunities. During the full ground drill he missed a lot of chances and his set shots aren't the most accurate. He'll get that right I'm sure. And thats all I can remember. I don't take notes when I'm there. On a side note the Dons were there watching the back end of the session and trained after us. I left during their warm up.

True story - I was torn on how to vote and I voted with my head and voted "merge" - I went to the letterbox at the end of my street and popped the letter into the hole and then felt ill - I sat by that letterbox feeling sick and waited for the pickup and talked to the postie when he arrived to collect the mail - of all things he was a Hawks supporter understood my agony and we retrieved my letter, I ripped it up, got new forms the next day and sent off a "no merge" vote

That would be ... "pissing THEIR pants WITH laughter". (No need to thank me.)

Sometimes it's not enough to just join dots. What I can see is a thread about Dean Bailey's comments on the tanking inquiry being hijacked into a hate Cameron Schwab thread. Fact of the matter is that comments were made by non board and non staff which got the investigation going. The dots connect to a point where the anti Schwab people set up a situation to unseat him and prevent him from being reappointed which has resulted in the MFC coming under investigation for tanking - that does not make him responsible for the tanking farce. It makes the fools who set McLean up as the responsible parties. Whatever Schwab did or didn't do is a matter for a different discussion but if, after the WC game in 2011, he formed the view that DB's position at the club was untenable because he couldn't coach, then I can tell you he wasn't an orphan for holding such a position.

So far I've read a lot of "from what I've heard" on this site but no one wants to say where they've heard it from. Some reckon they've heard we're ok, some reckon they've heard CS, CC and DB are in trouble, some say they've heard only CC is in strife. My question is where have you heard it and if it's a credible source, reveal it, if it's just what you've read in the daily then don't even bother posting it as it has no real credibility.

Agreed, I wonder how much a 5 and a half month interrogation at any AFL club would dig up. You can't blame the officials of the club if disgruntled formed employees and/or former board members have loose tongues or do mischievous things. The worst example in all this were Paul Garner's comments when this first blew up.

Grass is always Greener Stuie. You know that saying. The "Energy Watch" saga was a worry from the moment i couldn't find a head office address! But they did make payments...Christ knows where the $$$ came from!! But i would not kill off CS for that one decision...If it happened again, well you were warned. CS is a slick operator. His page 3 in the 2012 Yearbook is a strange read i must say....

One should add that those are very much minority Demonland opinions at that. I think the connection between the tanking investigation and Cameron Schwab is a spurious one and not warranted by any of the evidence I've seen presented.

All that shows is that the person handing the bag is smarter than Smerdon.

and you're totally oblivious to those that have agendas and are the ones who goaded an imbecilic afl into the inquisition.We didn't load a gun and aim it at ourselves !!!!

of course the media & the football world could be wrong. Now i have a few problems with CS granted, but i also think he has presided over the club in very turbulent times. To increase the $$$ going through the club to ove 40 mill per year before the club starts winning is a mighty job. Schwab is no fool & has copped far too much heat on this site. He aint perfect but none of us are.

I understand that everyone, including me, is livid that MFC, who followed virtually AFL practice, is the only club on the chopping block about tanking. Unfortunately that isn't a defence and if we are singled out, albeit unfairly, we still have to show we acted in accordance with AFL rules. Coupled with that is nobody really knows what evidence the AFL have and how cut and dried it is. I think Macca is right on the money. I think that Bailey's response is because the AFL have supplied to the relevant parties their evidence and it will implicate certain people. I have also heard that Chris Connolly, Cameron Schwab and Dean Bailey are in the forefront of the AFL's mind at present. Everyone obviously hopes for the best possible outcome but it's worrying to think that both the MFC and DB have seen fit to employ legal representation. That does not indicate a "no case to answer" finding from the AFL. Whilst the usual suspect have jumped on mjt for voicing a view, admittedly in a less than conciliatory manner, the issue that I think warrants consideration is "why" are we the only one's being investigated and in this respect the responsibility must rest with the most senior people in our club. I think I'm correct in saying that Libba said that everyone knew we weren't trying to win "but nobody ever said anything". That would seem to be the very opposite to the way we did it and that is why one must question the wisdom of our leaders. We all have our favourites and I'm no different but that doesn't mean a critical eye can't be cast over what's happened. We mucked up very very badly here and whilst we did no different to many others we did it in a way that opened us to investigation. That that should happen beggars belief.

thanks LS and to all. Be safe so we can all continue to disagree next year. Bring Back Range Rover... Merry Xmas & happy 2013..(The elusive 13)

Yes great thread. Thanks to all who have a hand in keeping this forum on the straight and narrow (kind of). Thanks to all those posters that make me laugh especially Biff. Thanks to WYL, Redleg and WJ for keeping me sane to a point. Merry Xmas and a happy and prosperous 2013 to all. "Go Dees" make us proud.

Yes, well said. However, the grammar in the thread title represents a clear sign the world IS about to end... Let's do this all again in 2013! Well, maybe not all.

If that's your response to rumpole's claim about your agenda here, then it amounts to a very sad admission along with your above post.Please send my best wishes to Hazy and the gang.

Bailey would have quite possibly received the 'evidence/report' (or his part of it) at the same time as our club . It seems his Lawyer may have spoken out because of the content of what has been sent to Dean . Only guessing here by the way, but it sounds like the 'possible' accusations could involve some points which (in turn) has caused Dean's lawyer to come out on the front foot . To do so in such a public way says to me that Dean is quite ticked off . In a lot of ways we really need Bailey in our court right now . By endeavoring to clear his own name he helps our cause enormously . He is an unlikely ally but an ally all the same . He was our coach and if we go down, he probably goes down . If he is absolved of any charges then we may stand a good chance of being absolved of all charges as well .

What a ridiculous statement if you dot mind me saying. You have NO idea how someone else will handle something unless there is ACTUAL history of an event and actions. Youre guessing. You may have an opinion to the management of the club and this colours your ability to see things for what they are it seems. The club has done valiantly in my opinion to be able to play this game of loaded chess.

Harsh Biff. He could yet become our problem.

Probably 49 & 50 respectively.

You are of course quite correct. Do those posters who maintain that we did tank ( like the old guy and shoonie the loonie) actually think we broke a rule and deserve punishment - or do they think ( as I do) that we worked within the framework established by the AFL just as other clubs had done before us ? The ambiguous term "tank" describes Carlton's legal actions in 2007. If that is what they mean , then we don't have an issue. ( As for Anderson - yes I have no doubt that we wouldn't be where we are now - and the AFL wouldn't have dug themselves into this hole - if he hadn't been holding the reins during Demetriou's mid season holiday)