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I went to training today. It was the second time I have been this year and I went to about ten pre-season training sessions last year. I can see improvement on the track from my observations. Whether this translates to victories in games I'm not sure but I think it might. I get the feeling as others have said that Neeld and co. are working to a plan and we are in year two of the roll out of it. Last year at this stage we had only done fairly basic skill stuff and were heavily into running. There was a smaller main group and lots of modified programs, still mainly to do with improving fitness. From there we went into the season with a basic and, after five weeks, a heavily criticised game plan of kicking long down the line to a contest, a slow laborious and ultimately, losing plan. This pre-season there are marked differences. Firstly the main group is larger in number, around 27 players today for instance. As a group compared to last year they are fitter, stronger and bigger. Secondly we are already practicing different ways to move the ball, early doors there is much more emphasis on the skills of the game. As Ben Hur said they were doing stoppage work today and a form of circle work which was all about running, kicking handballing and timing. Jack Watts is great to watch at this uncontested stuff, he is a great kick on both sides of his body and his timing when he attacks the ball is sublime. But yes it is uncontested. I think the third area we might see improvement is in the personnel. In previous years so many of our players have been unfit injured or of a poor attitude. The step up in professionalism over the two years and the boys' approach to training would be pretty obvious to most who go to watch them train. Individuals who are a chance to improve next year if training is anything to go by; Sam Blease. As we all saw showed glimpses last season and in a couple of the stoppage drills today showed his class. I think he may improve again in 2013. Tappy. He had no pre-season at all last year and in some of the gut running in the two sessions I've been to this pre-season he has kept up with Jones and Nicho and looks terrific. In the stoppage drill today whenever the blue team got the ball and went back from the stoppage they went wide out to Tappy on the wing/ half forward line in a set play that looked good. In the running after he ran with Viney, Spencer, Byrnes, Taggert, Rodan, McKenzie, Jones and Davey in repeat 1000 metre or some set time running thing (pretty brutal) and in the first one he blew them away. Unfortunately in the second run (they'd have about a minutes rest in between) he pulled up sore in his ankle/calf. Shame as he is flying but hopefully not too big a set back. Neville Jetta. He had a shocking run with injuries but is in the main group so far and looks good. In the stoppage work he featured a couple of times for the orange vests clearing the ball through traffic. He's tough. I'm not sure he will make it and I've watched him in games after reading positive things about him on here and I'm still not sold but if he is going to make it then at least he's giving himself every chance for 2013. Rory Taggert. He was in an orange vest and pitted against Magner or Rodan mainly and he did OK. I think he is a watch for 2013. He has nice size and got a couple of clearances for the orange vests that showed talent. Later in the running he completed them all but just ahead of Davey. At this stage I just hope he completes all the pre-season work. Spencer and Sellar. They did the ruck work and both went OK. I remember last pre-season Spencer couldn't get on the track with a knee injury. This year in the running sessions he is up front and really pushing himself, if he can continue he won't lack for fitness. In the stoppage work he was with the blues and got most of the taps, Rodan especially was at his feet and away a lot of times. He is definitely number 2 ruckman and may even push Jamar for number 1 spot in 2013. Sellar showed he can be a pinch hitter in the ruck if we only go in with one ruckman in games. Jack Watts. The main thing I reckon has changed for the better for Jack is he appears to have gained a bit more respect from the group from last pre-season. And he's settled. Last pre-season he was going to be a forward. I remember him having a push and shove with Frawley one day and coming off looking rather silly. Also Leigh Brown the forward line coach could just rag doll him in wrestling/marking drills. Mind you Brown could do that to most but it was like they were testing Watts and he wasn't testing too well. This pre-season he appears to be a respected, well performed and settled member of the group and he is training really well, well for two sessions anyway, I hope it continues. Shannon Byrnes and D-Rod. Both training well. Both professional attitude. Both showed off good skills. Nathan Jones. I remember last pre-season people on here were questioning his worth in the team and maybe fair enough as well but if one player has thrived under Neelds and Missons structured training regime its him. He is fit and well and massive. He is the natural leader of the group, especially the mid-field and a great role model. I also think the addition of Rodan and maybe Viney will help him to maybe get outside a bit more and hopefully get into the elite category in the league. (well maybe Sheahan's top 50 anyway for a start) Today in the running he started 10 or 15 seconds behind all the other runners and I think they might have done six repeats and in about the fifth run he came up alongside Viney who was leading and then Leigh Brown joined in (he would join in for the last minute, he's big but he's fit and he can really carve out some sectionals and he encourages them along, great to watch) and they ran flat out for the last 30 seconds, Jones got in front but Viney came back and beat him. Negatives. Grimes is in rehab group with a bandage on one of his hammy's, really hope he gets back soon. I hate to say it, I'm no doctor and its crazy to put a dampener on a positive training report but I think Clark is a long way off. Sylvia. Last pre-season he was in modified program and same this pre-season. Status Quo for his attitude. No leader. Anyway Whispering Jack I really enjoyed reading your thread on Timing of the Shrew so hopefully you enjoy my report. I do think we'll improve in 2013.

I was kidding last week when I wrote of Wilson rummaging around garbage bins and about the club bootstudder being interviewed but that seems to be where this is all going now. It's high farce and becoming more than embarrassing for her and the investigators feeding her this bilge. Demetriou should be aware that the entire investigative process is heading towards complete derailment. In all this, Lynden Dunn stands out as the likely hero. Wilson states that he is "one player several Melbourne officials and former officials believed to have staged an unofficial protest during ¾ time of the Richmond game ..." Well that's odd because there's no evidence that any official or former official instructed Dunn or any player to try to lose the game. Further, Melbourne was IIRC in front at ¾ time of that game so what exactly was he unofficially protesting about? The only answer is that he, like McLean and possibly others, might have been unhappy about the general perception out there among the fans that it wasn't in the interests of the club to win many more matches from that stage of the season onwards. That's fair enough but it's no crime or offence for supporters to want their club to get the best possible draft position at the end of the year. Nor for that matter is it an offence for club officials to feel that way. The AFL had, on several occasions, already stated its position on what was ultimately permissible and what was not. The fact that we had players who were outwardly urging their teammates on to win a match and that, in the end, we would have won had Jordan McMahon missed from 50 metres after the siren is the proof that there is no case to answer.

In news just in - an auskick player representing Preston primary school has been been interviewed by Brett Clothier for the fourth time about his observations of the demons body language as they ran out onto the field in the 2009 game against the tigers. Sources advise that Timmy told investigators 'the red and blue players looked sad'

Bloke wants photo. Players pose for photo. This is not news, someone at The Age needs to take control of the situation and stop the campaign they have running against us. It is making a mockery of their sports section and credibility as a newspaper.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2012-mock.980920/ Very detailed descriptions that don't gloss over weaknesses, he's a bit more brutal in his assessments. He has us taking Wines but I loved his write up on Viney which I'll throw in to get people salivating. Also he doesn't rate O'Rourke very highly and has him going at 16. It's just another opinion, we've all got em but I thought some might be interested Jack Viney DOB: 13/4/94 Ht: 178 Wt: 82 Is head and shoulders the best inside mid in this draft and is exactly the type of player that Gold Coast need for the midfield. He was well worth the number 2 pick it’s just a shame that they didn’t bid for him. Instead he goes to Melbourne at 26. I am very jealous as he would be the kind of player who Brisbane ideally need. People always talk about Viney’s inside game but tend to overlook his outside skills. Viney is an excellent accumulator of the ball and will rack them up at the next level. He is a kid who works his butt off to spread from clearances and is smart enough to get to good spots. I don’t think he has a natural feel for where to run but he is a smart enough footballer to work it out and then go. He is a big gut runner and taggers at junior level are not able to keep up with him and he tends to get a lot of football that way. This is also a kid who steps up in the big occasions. He was excellent at the Champs when the games were being decided and even going back to last year it is worth noting that he 34 possessions in the TAC GF. Viney is not a natural endurance athlete but watching him play you can see him turning himself into a runner by sheer force of will. His gut running is as good as I have seen at this level and he runs until he is out of steam. At the moment his first halves are much stronger than his seconds because he has run himself into the ground in the first half. I don’t mind that though and as he continues to work on it the longer into games he can go running to his full capacity. He is a kid who constantly challenges himself to go further and harder and this will stand him in good stead as his career develops. A lot of inside mids tend to start their careers as poor kicks. This should not be a problem for Viney. He is a left footer who uses it well, particularly in the short to intermediate ranges. He is capable of drilling a nice low kick into his forwards when required. He has reasonable penetration and the weight on his kicks is similarly pretty good without being elite. He is pretty one-sided with his right foot having little penetration or accuracy. Pace wise Viney is reasonable. He gets up to speed very quickly and shows a nice burst. His does not have the top end of some of the speedsters in this draft but he has the awareness to get the ball away before he is caught. Viney uses his burst of pace very well in tight to charge through contests or through someone trying to tackle him. He is also fairly agile despite his wrecking ball reputation and his agility, pace and strength make his a difficult proposition to tackle. You often hear people talking about putting your head down when you chase and that is literally what Viney does quite often. When he is without the ball and needs an extra effort to chase down a player of the ball the head will go down and he will give it his all. To see that kind of effort would be pretty inspiring for his teammates. On the inside Viney is an elite talent without question. He is not wedded to any particular ball winning style but will mix it up depending on what works. Sometimes he will start on the outside and attack the contest at pace, sometimes he will sit at the rucks feet. Whatever is going to get him the ball. He reads the ball of the rucks hands very well and has clean quick hands himself. He has excellent awareness of who is around him and excels at getting the ball out to his receivers. As mentioned he is very difficult to tackle and he uses his strength to hold his feet well and does not panic. When he has some momentum going into a contest he will regularly bust tackles, push men off and come out the other side. When an opposition player gets the ball he is a very good tackler and wraps up the man and ball nicely. He has a low centre of gravity and looks like he has done a fair bit of wrestling training in his time. Viney broke his jaw earlier in the year and was out for 7 weeks which did disrupt his season a bit. Despite that he was one of the players of the Champs and showed all what kind of a player Melbourne is getting. Melbourne need a cultural change and with the clean out underway getting a kid like Viney in will only expedite the transition. Anyway happy reading for those that are interested.

this is conclusive and irrefutible evidence that we tanked in 2009.

Fan, i was re reading some posts and did notice this , Fan if this is true that were sitting there in that room , wouldn't you be better served keeping quiet on this matter ? , are you after attention to be called for what was said ? it seems strange you have now started to post and this has come out ? from the outside I don't know if you had a problem with the club or board or even still do . If from what i read you did help out the club and believe you did , well done , I like a few have had a problem with the club or players in my stores ( my brighton store to be honest and I believe we meet there too ) and walked away , only 3 years ago CC came and saw me and got me back , i would always support the club but to be honest not as much as I once did over that period. But Now I am back . I am sure you saw that Pinball machine in the player lunch room . i dont want to know what you heard or sat in on. as far as i am concerned Melbourne played by the rules and did what they needed to do and I support that this witch hunt by CW is just pathetic , very little facts and real quotes , the Age has lost me forever mark

To be honest, and as someone who has read most of what’s here, I don’t recall much in the way of panic about what Wilson has had to say. Contempt, as Elwood says, disgust, outrage, concern at journalistic and ethical standards and so on, but panic? Presumably that’s just you in Wilsonian mode. Imitation being the sincerest form etc. What you’ve glossed over entirely is that people here have largely been concerned not simply with the ‘facts’ Wilson’s has been claiming to report during her campaign against the MFC, but (a) that she’s taken it upon herself to conduct a campaign in the first place; and (B) the manner of her reporting whatever it is she’s actually reporting. Maybe responsibility here rests ultimately with her editor, but Wilson’s rolling philippic has had nothing to do with journalism and everything to do with the op-ed pages. I don’t think it’s just contributors to this thread who feel abused and defrauded by, or angry at opinion masquerading as journalism. All that’s been added here are various suspicions and concerns and occasional bits of information about what else may or may not be involved in that masquerade … and, of course, an entirely justifiable reaction to Wilson’s vitriolic and hostile bloviating. I think, by the way, that you flatter yourself just a touch by claiming some role in galvanizing (sic) opinion on this thread. If you’d read more of it you might have noticed how well people had been getting on without you. Any more galvanising and we’d be able to start a roofing business (nearly said a tank-making business, but it’s a touchy subject and most water tanks are plastic nowadays). Your interventions don’t seem to have contributed anything useful anyway. The recent descent into boys’ club claptrap about who knows whom and who doesn’t isn’t much more than a pretext for a bit of patronising of one poster (if not all of us) and abuse of a couple of others. It’s just plain tedious. Maybe that was your hope, though: to kill off the thread through boredom and irrelevance. Take another look, though. It’s off and running again, just as you’ve fallen silent. Interesting, that.

I would suggest that the follow up to Wilson's screeching editorial of a fortnight ago has been a major embarrassment to herself and her newspaper. I'm afraid that if Caro wants to win a Walkley Award for journalism now, then she has to volunteer to go to Gaza and embed herself with whoever happens to be the latest leader of the Hamas military wing and ask some tough questions whilst on a casual drive through town.

Fairfax Media understands that Clothier stopped the recording at various times to remind Timmy that his future as Year 5 SRC Rep is at stake.

He's been reported as taking third party payments from Toilet Duck.

Please let this go to trial, if only so we can see .... VS

Prendergast is gone, mate. The days of the club making stupid decisions are also gone. If Toumpas is available at pick 4 I don't believe Melbourne would overlook him. It would be sheer madness.

Desperation is kicking in for Caro. She keeps running around with the same old bone but there is no meat on it. Adam Paulo is now in the firing line? Lynden Dunn urged us to win at 3/4 time v Richmond. Haddad to re-interview Bailey. There was a rebellion in the rooms lead by Lynden? She is all over the place like a mad womans poop. She may actually be obsessing over this in an unhealthy way. I fear for the remnants of her sanity. The investigators are clutching at straws and feeding the scant "evidence" directly to her which seems a little prejudicial. She has toned down the attack on CS but there are still issues in her closet with him. She's fkn Radio Rental.

What issue?

+1 for the I'd never heard of him brigade. The only disappointment for me is Tapscott's choice of company.

I'd really be worried if the blokes were photographed in the company of Caroline Wilson but this bloke - pfft!!! Fairfax is intent on becoming Australia's News of The World.

I like how Moloney is counting how many kicks he got this year.

I'm not sure whether anyone can predict the full dimensions of their exit strategy (it is the AFL after all) but I think the Judd move is particularly interesting. They're obviously clearing the decks so they can take a bigger swing at the Crows. The sideshow to come on this might be the distraction they need as they start quietly burying the tanking debacle. Edit: On Fan's DL status (maybe this applies to Rhino's often caustic interventions, though some of these are quite enjoyable) perhaps we need two classes of moderation here: moderators and immoderators.

I wrote as above to Fan. A simple request, but he didn't respond and 'bows out'. I had an open mind on his motivations, but sadly I (who know nothing of past or present Board machinations) have to agree with those who think he has an axe to grind.

Patronising to the end. Not that you were ever interested in discussing whether Wilson is a good journalist, merely in asserting it.

Would you care to re-write this conciliatory note - without the demeaning little dig at the end (unless you are acknowledging that all our posts represent such wise utterings that they could be attributed to a footy-wise owl)

You sum it up very well. Wilson's article this morning - whether she intended it or not - highlights the investigator's extraordinary reliance on the views of disgruntled former personnel - whether or not those people are in a position to provide any meaningful evidence ( doctors on the bench!) You'd think that the journalist herself might actually make that the headline. But she can't help herself - her "if statement" about Schwab is a classic giveaway - a nice little link back to her long-term obsession I hope you are right. The other view is that they won't leave us alone until they find enough to hang someone - even if its the boot studder. It's possible that the AFL has decided that someone has to be punished for this - to justify the tens /thousands of dollars they have spent on it already. Perversely we might get more support from the general football public if we are punished : "poor Melbourne - talk about a scapegoat" . If we "get off" , they'll cry "blxxdy Melbourne - how lucky are they" Surely, you'll concede this Fan. You seem to assume that the market is comprised those already immersed in the detail of who's who. Our market is the broader community of young people , business people, immigrants who don't know Chris Connolly from a bar of soap - they know the Melbourne Demons. And headlines like " pathetic and disgusting Demons" and (down the track , perhaps) " disgraced Demons sack officials " damage that name !!

If we get Jimmy I'll be absolutely over the moon. People here are WAY too obsessed with Wines, group-think is out of control.

In times like this you batten down the hatches and all pull together. Sort out any internal machinations when there's "better" timing. When things are more in your control. Your suggestions smack of an admission of guilt.

Rumour has it that CW is working on another story that melbourne gave players mandarines instead or oranges in the last two games at 3 quarter time and that they watered down the gaterade. The orangeboy and drinks attendants have been interviewed 3 times each.

Just quietly, that's not always a good sign...

It is important to discern when evidence leads conclusion, and when conclusion leads evidence.

I often wonder when I read articles like this, what goes through the author's head at the time. If it were me, as my fingers busily worked away at the keys, I'd be thinking, "how did I become this? I'm not a journalist, I'm just a fraud". They probably don't have the presence of mind, though, which is how they became that in the first place.

I for one am grateful that it's suddenly interesting again. Being group-thought in to knowing who our only early pick was, followed by a whole bunch of who gives a shite for the rest of the draft wasn't a recipe for wetting my pants with excitement. Excuse me while I go change my pants. That said, I do still think the "agreement with GWS" thing is crackpot and if we do happen to land Toumpas it will be purely good fortune (another KotD), but I have more faith now that this is a possibility than I did last week.

I doubt they even knew who he was. I've never heard of him. Is this seriously news....

Don't have any links but my uncle heard it on the radio yesterday. They should also be investigated for paying Richard Tambling, anything...

Neil Balme gets my vote. Had a premiership list did Neil, but they were all injured.

I think Blease has every chance of being as good as Jetta.

I was almost certain that this would be a thread about Mark Neeld.

I don't like players being abused, but providing a fair critique should be in order. But when the club has arguably had its worst year in history - President dying, coach questioned over racial prejudice, as well as a media commentator saying he'd lost the players prior to round 2, the major sponsor sacked in disgrace, terrible on-field performances, allegations of tanking, which the club denies, followed by formal AFL investigation - any supporter that had the club's interest at heart would call for unity until things settled down. The last thing they would advocate is club sackings in the middle of such an investigation, which would only make the club look as guilty as sin, and it would help circumvent due process. Fan's personal bias seems to override any club interest. And to equate that with me saying during the season that Rohan Bail is a poor kick is surely a joke. He's kidding, isn't he ?

I think what Fan is alluding to is that it's good to see that we rally around the flag and stick up for our own in times of "crisis" as many of us have done here and yet, when the season's on, there are those who don't mind sticking the boots into our own players (often in the most cutting and unkind manner), especially when the chips are down and the team's losing. I'm not averse to criticism of anyone at the club if its warranted, but outright abuse of players, officials, coaches etc shouldn't be tolerated (and won't be if the mods here do their jobs properly). But I think that's part of the reason for the strident defence of some of the club personnel in this debate. They do their job and its not easy, and then they get bagged for having been incompetent but with not much more to back it up other than the bald accusation. Having been involved at club, league and district level in a couple of different sports at a junior level, I know how easy it is for critics to attack hard working officials who, for the most part, do their jobs properly. Perhaps, what we need is to ditch our code of conduct and just replace it with the golden rule.

Am just wondering how long it will be before certain posters get stuck into Viney/Wines/Toumas/Trengove(some have already started) when they have some down games and don't live up to the star expectations....I really hate the bagging some players get on DL.....Some won't make it....some will be great players.....but they are all trying....they actually want to be AFL players... We are all football 'experts'..... we all view players differently......but we have no idea of players state of mind at any time of day..... Players are human....there have worries, personal problems, the same as us....So to say a certain player needs to pull his finger out is ignorant and unfair I would love to see some posters see how they would go trying to get a game in the AFL envioment.....every move or decision you make is subject to public opinion....

If Toumpas is available and we overlook him I'll be very very disappointed.

I'd be curious to know why you think that changing the senior personnel would remove the taint. I believe the taint is one of 'brand'. Even if we suffer no formal penalty, we are up for mocking by other supporters, hesitation by sponsors etc. I do not see how the names or history of senior personnel affects any of that. Sponsors know that 99.9% of supporters (ie. their market) don't know who is CEO of any club (though perhaps not true of posters to these sorts of boards), so how would changing the CEO affect their decision to sponsor a club? I doubt that they'd shy away just because the senior people had done something a bit off in the past - if business worked like that, how come <insert long list of prominent dodgey business people's names here> are still raking it in? So please explain, or I may be tempted to think you might more motivated to replace the senior personnel than wash away the taint. edit: grammar

This is where I have a problem. The events that we're discussing took place in 2009 and many of those involved in them have either gone or are now employed in different roles at the club and are indeed, by all accounts, doing well. Should we upset the apple cart because certain malcontents have told their grubby little stories to an over zealous investigator who has in turn passed this information on to a person in the media who despises thes "senior personnel"? This is the opposite of a democratic and fair result and, as a member I object strongly to such an outcome which would be tantamount to handing a victory to those who plotted against these personel and thereby jeopardised the interests of the club. I can see how some consider that this is not really about tanking and breaking AFL rules (whatever they may be) but instead, its about doing a hatchet job on people at the club who might not be popular with their critics.

As i have noted before i don't really have an axe to grind with CW and have always considered her to be an ok journalist Unlike Fan however i don't go in for the reporting of football political palaver, which is very much her genre (if that's the right word). I just find it tiresome and would much rather read some decent analysis of tacics, game plans etc (which is woefully short supply across all media). But i think she might have jumped the shark as has the age actually. What grates with her style is not so much her obvious anger towards CS but that how it seems to cross over into a general negativity towards the club as a whole. She seems to take any opportunity to stir up stuff and have a shot. For example this quote from today's article: 'Fairfax Media understands the AFL has summoned Adam Paulo, who was the club's fitness coach that year and departed in less-than-happy circumstances in the past month' What does it add to article that he apparently 'departed in less-than-happy circumstances'. It's just another cheap shot. How does she know this by the way? Surely it is not a fact (unless Paulo has directly told her so). It's a small thing but it just highlights the weird mix of fact, conjecture and opinion that seem to be a feature of her wrtiting. Others have pointed it out, but either write an op ed or a news piece. The other interesting thing i reckon is that as the good Dr notes it suggests that Paulo is yet another disgruntled ex employee who has been interviewed and given evidence. Bailey, For me the fact that so much of this seems to rely on evidence given by ex employees, many of who seem to harbour some angst - starting with McClean of course. Now for my money i'd expect a serious journalist to explore this aspect of the story or at the least make note of it because it will, i imagine, be a big factor in any determination the commission make. Certainly if it goes to court it would be an issue the finskter would robustly interrogate. This sort of analysis would add some much needed balance to her articles on this issue and would add some light and shade to what is a complex issue. I'd also like to see her (or others) provide some commentary on the legalities of all this eg what specific rules are in play, what legal avenues would be open to us, what are the implications of a court challenge etc. This would help me understand the issue better and after all this is the idea of journalism not muck raking for muck raking sakes.

Put Clark on ice until round 10 if necessary ... Dawes, Pedersen, Sellar can pretend to play his role for structural value. Not saying they would be as good but in terms of the team getting used to a 3tall forward line. 2013 isnt too important, 2014+ is

I managed to pop over to Gosch's Paddock. Twas a good session. Lots of stoppage work with an AFL field umpire and boundary umpire joining in part of the session. Players in orange vests defending and those in blue vests hunting the ball. Trengove, Jones, Rodan, McKenzie in blue, which indicated their likely status in the pecking order and Viney joined them by switching over halfway through. Rodan was the stand out. His inside work was exceptional. A staff member stood near the contests and taped these drills and did the odd playback to a coach or player. There were around the ground throw-ups, boundary throw-ins and centre square ball-ups. It was a full-ground simulation with forwards and backs, but they stopped each drill as soon as it was cleared, so the forwards and backs were more for structure/placement. Also had long kicking drills where the ball was constantly switched across ground and back inside before hitting the diagonal flanks. Lots of talk and lots of running at high speed. There was urgency and the players were encouraged to run at full tilt once ball was in possession. There would be two or three footballs constantly in play as the drill rotated around the ground. In the main the skills were good. Today's sessions encompassed stoppage work, ruckwork with Spencer and Sellar, hard running with spread, tackling/evasion, teamwork handballs, switching of play, and kicking skills. There's a tangibly different feel to training this year. It's hard to describe, but there's a buoyancy. Training is very professional and everything seems to be timed to the minute. There were also other shorter drills that involved quick handballs and evasive techniques to avoid tackles in smaller groups. The main group finished by walking over to the tan. Those that I saw, but didn't do the main session included Grimes, Gawn, Sylvia, Evans, Hogan, Clark, Jamar, Fitzpatrick, Tynan. I didn't see Dawes or Barry.

I used to think that CW was a good Journo but her standards have slipped and now she has been reduced to the lowest order of "If it bleeds it leads" type of Journalism which is just the last gasp in hope of Media outlets searching for relevance in a AFL Media saturated market. Whether CW finds her Mojo or continues to decline remains to be seen. Until then I will take anything she has to say with a grain of salt. and maybe a slice of lemon and shot of tequila.

The rules committee has reviewed the scoring system. The old system was working perfectly,now we have reverted to changing it on the run. Just like the real AFL. 4 pts scored for the 1st clue : 3 pts for the 2nd clue : 2 pts for the 3rd clue : 1 pt last clue. (9pts = supergoal for guessing who it is before the any clues are given) = just kidding. > Current Standings... 4 (wins) - gsmith12 -- 15 points 4 - Whispering_Jack -- 15 points 2 - stingrays -- 8 points 2 - Deevoted -- 7 points 1 - 45GH16 -- 4 points 1 - DemonWorshipper -- 4 points 1 - Miles From Nowhere -- 4 points 1 - Old Man Rivers -- 4 points 1 - red and blue forever -- 4 points

Thanks guys for the continued reports for us that can’t make it due to being interstate. I can’t help but get the feeling the tides are turning. A lot of positives coming out of training and the club over the last week and very little negativity. By all accounts we are fitter, stronger and training harder in the first couple of weeks. Was Aaron Davey training? And if so how did he look in comparison to last year and others?

That should be the "ground Collingwood uses". It's not theirs. In fact, last time I checked they were based in the wrong suburb.

No disrespect to anyone who has left, but those who are still at the club want to be there. That makes a massive difference in attitude.

Fan. it's interesting that you cited the Nathan Carroll sacking as an example of Wilson's journalistic bona fides. To most people on this thread it simply highlights the double standards she applies to all things MFC as opposed to her beloved Richmond. Why do her Journalistic skills fail her so frequently when the Tiogs are involved. I'm still waiting for insightful pieces on Dustin Martin and Arron Edwards and the cultural problems that exist at tigerland. Wilson's catalogue of work has been particularly erroneous over her last couple of years and has shown a considerable decline in its content and quality whilst suggesting a hint of desperation. I think that Wilson's relevance to the game is in decline and that she her self is well aware of this situation.