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I'd be very very disappointed if we didn't offer Rivers a decent contract to keep him put. He has been one of our best, most consistent senior players and has not dropped his head once, despite being demoted from the leadership group. As for Jurrah, if we get rid of him because it's just all "too hard", then we should be ashamed of ourselves as a club.

Would be VERY disappointed not to see Rivers finish his career at the MFC. Hope he gets an extension. I've heard the club reckons there's big upside to Evans. Pity his career thus far has been cruelled by injury. I would've thought Sellar's done enough to get another year.

When you said, "Malthouse referred to the ability of a coach to gain the most from a list - not replace it completely - to achieve success. Personally, I wish we had a coach with that approach to the job." you were making a clear inference. Your inference was that you wished you had a coach, like Malthouse, that would get the most out of the list they'd inherited and that they wouldn't cut a swathe through it. I pointed out that after Malthouse's first year at Collingwood through various means he turned over a third of the list. Obviously the point I was making was that the coach you flagged as a standard bearer of how to manage a list, in fact, had probably the greatest turnover of a list in the last 15 years. And he did it after his first 12 months. I don't need to go into every Collingwood trade, or retirement, as I was merely rebutting your assertion that Malthouse would handle list management differently. I've proven he's done the exact same thing you're being critical of. But unless you're stupid, and I won't rule that out, you know the point I was making. So instead of trying to query each case of the 13 players 'turned over' you simply needed to say, "gee, he did turn over a lot, didn't he ?" "I wasn't aware of that." But no, you take the disingenuous path. Mass retirements and trades of seemingly good players (Michael, Williams and Rocca) after a coaches first year are rarely coincidental. You don't turn over a third of your list by accident. Btw, I hope we're in a position to lose a grand final "yet again". I'm looking forward to once again being "in the game". Aren't you ?

It's a dangerous strategy but at the same time, it's bold and it's brave. Franchise clubs aside, we're the worst performed club despite our early draft picks in recent years. Something has to be done and you have to admire the football club for taking what has to be regarded as a courageous step. I like this part because it demonstrates that the club is going all out to address the crux of our problems -

Why is it disappointing ? Football is littered with past players and plenty of champions that were forced into retirement. Some older examples include Michael Tuck, Peter Daicos, Doug Hawkins, Budda Hocking and more recently Luke Power, Milburn, Cornes and plenty of others. It's actually unusual that a player retires on his own terms and if they do it's more often than not a premiership player. Fletcher and Harvey keep going because they're easily holding their place in their respective teams. The key being they've maintained their pace. But their situations aren't the norm. And rest assured if their form suddenly tapers away they'll quickly get tapped on the shoulder. Footballers always think they've got another year, but clubs have to keep developing and improving. It's incumbent of them to do what they perceive is best for the club. I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't subscribe to the theory that a player should decide his own future because of past exploits. A player is the servant of the club. They're not owed the chance to bow out on their terms. Players at poorly performing clubs are in an even more precarious position. Outside of the two development clubs we're the worst in the league. We need to get some young or mid age (FA) talent on the list. We're no longer winning games with Brad Green running around. I'd rather be losing and developing sustainable talent than losing with slow veterans that may have a year left. I understand that clubs need quality senior talent to help nurture the young, but even so judgment calls need to be made. Brad's time had come. It seems like yesterday I was watching him killing off Carlton's chances in 2000. He's a great guy, I thank him for many great memories and wish him well.

A few times when I've moved house or just been having a bit of a spring clean I often come across weird & wonderful trinkets that I forgot that I had. Sometimes the throwing out of these things is delayed under the misguided notions "oh, that'll come in handy" or "I bet somebody, somewhere could make use of that, so why not me?" The next time a clean up comes round these things often get thrown out anyway with me musing "what a load of junk!" There are many television programs that document people who are swimming in their own junk. I guess they just can't bring themselves to throw out anything based on factors including sentimentality, a little bit of jealousy, selfishness & an overwhelming notion that having all of this stuff somehow makes or will make their lives better. It is a very human thing to want to hoard crap but ultimately your life is much better without useless clutter. This trading & drafting period will tell us whether or not Mark Neeld is a hoarder. Hopefully he can get rid of our crap without ruining it by picking up more junk from the neighbours' hard rubbish.

I didn't take you for the type to tolerate 5 year plans. You should demand results now, lest you be accused of making excuses.

Another dhead who got roped in by the fake Caroline Wilson Twitter account.

I say; "excuse me David King, I have stuff to do and you're holding me up.."

I'm going to give Jordy a copy of eckhart tolle's 'A new earth'. From my perspective, he walked into the MFC not really knowing or understanding the physical requirements and work that needs to be done to make it as an AFL footballer. Like many young players. Unless the flick switches in his egotistical head over the break and he comes back to pre-season ready to work, I don't want him on the list. Jordy cruised through the Vic metro carnival, got drafted at pick 11, had 20+ possies in each or his first few games and thought, 'this gig is pretty easy'. And, of course, demonland goes crazy and the comparisons to Scott Pendlebury begin! Yes Jose, fitness can be solved, but players like Jordy need first develop the desire and will for it. He needs to want to get the best out of himself and not just cruise through. So far, injuries aside, he has not shown the application and his other attributes aren't nearly good enough to give him a game even without the required fitness base. Look at Jeremy Howe for instance. Obviously marking is his best attribute, so even without having an elite level midfielder's fitness base, he still plays every week, mostly in the midfield. He tackles, blocks, marks and kicks well. Jordy on the other hand does not have a standout attribute apart from his ability to win the ball in close but we already have too many guys who hold that attribute themselves and are miles ahead of Jordy in terms of fitness. I don't rate Jordy nearly as highly as some on here, including you Jose. He hasn't and doesn't show anything other than being able to win the ball in close. He is still not strong enough one on one and at the moment he is pretty much useless when the ball spreads. I want natural hard working AFL players. I want players who have great skills and a desire to work hard to get the best out of themselves. Neeld shares this mantra, and I can't wait for the offseason to begin.

There is no venom thrown at posters who question Neeld. There are plenty of questions, reason & logic put towards muppets who believe we are somehow better than complete [censored]. There is frustration directed at people who can not articulate a sensible critique of Neeld's coaching methods & advocate the irrational position of sacking a first year coach based on their own set of unrealistic expectations & assumptions. Not to mention further frustration when said cabal of nuffies deflect reason & logic, are called out on it & then accuse their opponents of being Neeld lovers who can't accept criticism (as though they have no agenda & are fighting some heroic holy war against a bunch of sheep & their false idol). Patience gets tested to the limit when said group of nuffies can't agree to disagree & hijack every single thread or clog up the main board with their own stupid threads on this pox agenda. Some of this numbskullery includes: - "We won 8.5 games last year" - "Neeld said he would make us the hardest team to play against & it hasn't happened yet!" - "What is it you like about Neeld as a coach? He's proven nothing!" - "We should sack Neeld & appoint Malthouse!" - "Herp de derp, der tiddly derp, der herp de derp de dum!" Oh noes! People aren't all calling for a first year coach with a [censored] list to be sacked. What a bunch of extremists! I suspect from this garbage you're not operating on the full 3 bags. At least you've admitted to being a sheep though.

Actually WJ the only danger would be NOT to take such a stance after years and years of inane nothingness. Some will think this means we are attempting to discard all and sundry, that 'their' fav player is up for the chop where in reality its simply the club looking to see who's around, who's interested in anyone on our list and what the best outcome for the playing list might be. I would expect many to indeeed remain with the club but there will be a couple of players let go as the list simply needs to improve. We cant stay the same...we're doomed if we do.

I doubt anyone needs a reminder that our captains are just babies, but this point really drives it home. Especially when in my mind Grimes is the "senior" captain but has played 5 less matches than his younger co-captain. Best of luck in your 50th Jack.

Yeah....because this playing group achieved so much and showed such hunger pre-Neeld

Leaving aside Jurrah, due to his personal circumstances, there's not one of the other 10 listed players that I'd lose sleep about.

Cook in Casey 2s at this stage of the year, his development and our injury list. That looks "gorn" to me. Fitzpatrick contracted.

Yeah that's a weird one for me as well. We have to sign Rivers up without him there are way too many holes to fill in the off season. I would get his contract done ASAP.

"MELBOURNE has taken the radical step of putting contract discussions with 11 players on hold until mid-October" Hallelujah !!! NOW....we're getting serious.

I didn't order a sh!t sandwich with my membership!

Sorry to not be as happy as most seem about this. The biggest story in this that I see is that its in the papers. Either its a big leak or its false. The impact on the player group of a quarter of the list being unwanted will be huge. Everyone who's saying how good this is ought to think about how they would feel working in an organisation where this was happening in the public eye. We're humiliating the players AGAIN and that cant be good for anything other than taking the heat of Neelds coaching. It disturbs me its in the public arena... Theres a month to go of this season the last time I looked. The players had no football department to speak for years because we were broke. Thats at least PART of the reason so many have not come on. You disgrace the playing group en masse like this at a cost...I hope we're not digging ourselves a grave.

A BIG LAUGH by The Oracle This season has produced very little for Melbourne supporters to smile about as the club has been hit by disasters off the field and pushed from pillar to post on it. The calamities that have affected the Demons have certainly been well documented and little of it has been funny. This is why I was somewhat puzzled to see the three talking heads on On The Couch giggling away with amusement after showing a film clip of Melbourne Chairman that selectively focussed on part of the comments he made to members at a lunch before last week's game against the Gold Coast Suns concerning the tanking controversy initiated by an interview on the programme with former player Brock McLean. Of course, they would not be laughing if they had to respond to the substantive matters McLardy discussed and about which On The Couch omitted to mention; namely the issues surrounding list management that are a fundamental to our game and which affect most clubs from time to time. And we all know that Melbourne has not been alone here although the panel was apparently collectively inflicted by amnesia about how McLean's current club rorted the system so that they forgot to ask him why, if he held such high principles, did he move on to the Blues of all clubs after leaving the Demons? What McLardy said was reported in the Melbourne Age in rebuttal of claims that McLean had declared on the programme that Melbourne deliberately lost games to gain valuable draft picks (actually McLean described what happened as not tanking but "experimenting" but the facts should never get in the way of a good story) – Demons re-sign key players, Schwab:- I understand how three people with a megaphone and an agenda can misrepresent the club's position and ignore the thrust of what McLardy said but it wasn't funny and it reflected poorly on the presenters of On The Couch. As the great Groucho Marx would say: "I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book." I reckon Groucho must have been thinking about the three clowns on On The Couch. Unfortunately for them, Melbourne produced some winning form last weekend against the Gold Coast Suns. Sure, it wasn't a flashy or convincing win but the margin was 42 points. One might think a win of that size would mean the club could avoid criticism from the usual suspects but a few decided the loss was shameful; the winning margin should have been double that and Melbourne's effort is therefore deemed a failure and indicative of a poor culture. Never mind that the Suns' recent form hasn't been all that bad. On 8 July, they lost to Geelong by 14 points, a week later they beat Richmond by 2 points and after that lost to the Lions by 11 points. Their only recent thumping was at the hands of ladder leader Sydney. The media circus continues with another one-sided stab against Melbourne in today's Age concerning the retirement of Brad Green who has been a great servant of the club and yesterday announced he was leaving at the end of the season. The press conference was conducted with great professionalism and in the style of the club champion the 251 gamer conducted himself throughout his illustrious career. In the circumstances, it was disappointing for the Age to immediately jump in and focus on the whether Melbourne had been disloyal to Green suggesting it should have kept him on irrespective form or the player's drive to continue on further. It will be a matter of much amusement to see whether such an approach will be taken in the case of other impending retirements at clubs like the Western Bulldogs in the weeks to come. To the media gurus who think they know everything, I say you're not funny but you certainly are a joke. Thanks for giving me a big laugh! And now, it's on to the MCG and the Saints who are starting at the ridiculous odds of $1.06 to win. That's funny too. THE GAME St. Kilda v Melbourne at MCG Saturday 11 August, 2012 at 1:45pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall St. Kilda 84 wins Melbourne 118 wins 1 drawn At MCG St. Kilda 32 wins Melbourne 58 wins Since 2000 St. Kilda 9 wins Melbourne 9 wins The Coaches Watters 1 win Neeld 0 wins MEDIA TV Fox Footy Channel Live at 1.30pm Channel 7 (delayed at 3.00pm) RADIO 3AW Triple M THE BETTING St. Kilda to win $1.06 Melbourne to win $9.50 THE LAST TIME THEY MET St. Kilda 12.12.84 defeated Melbourne 10.6.66 Round 5, 2012 at the MCG The teams slugged it out for three quarters going goal for goal in wet conditions on a Saturday night. Mitch Clark was missed and he would have been handy at full forward in the last quarter when the Demons failed to score. THE TEAMS ST. KILDA Backs Jarryn Geary James Gwilt Tom Simpkin Half backs Sean Dempster Sam Fisher Sam Gilbert Centreline Farren Ray Lenny Hayes Brendon Goddard Half forwards Ahmed Saad Nick Riewoldt Nick Dal Santo Forwards Stephen Milne Justin Koschitzke Sam Dunell Followers Ben McEvoy David Armitage Leigh Montagna Interchange Jason Gram Clinton Jones Jack Steven Beau Wilkes Emergencies Jamie Cripps Tom Ledger Dean Polo In Beau Wilkes Out Dean Polo MELBOURNE Backs Joel Macdonald James Sellar Tom McDonald Half backs Lynden Dunn Matthew Bate Colin Garland Centreline Jack Trengove Brent Moloney Sam Blease Half forwards Neville Jetta Jared Rivers Rohan Bail Forwards Jeremy Howe Brad Green Colin Sylvia Followers Jake Spencer Jack Grimes Nathan Jones Interchange Jordie McKenzie James Magner James Strauss Luke Tapscott Emergencies Michael Evans Jack Fitzpatrick Jordan Gysberts In Matthew Bate Neville Jetta Jordie McKenzie Out James Frawley (quad) Jordan Gysberts Cale Morton (shoulder) It's a pity from Melbourne's point of view that Stephen Milne is free to play on Saturday after being fined $3,000 by St Kilda for making a homophobic comment towards Harry O'Brien. The little pest always seems to be the first to kick a goal (or two) in St. Kilda v Melbourne games and the Dees best bet to control the damage he might inflict, Clint Bartram, is languishing on their long injured list which last week stretched to about 15 players. By way of contrast, the Saints have close to a full list of players from which to select their team this week. According to this week's Age, it reads like this: ST KILDA Adam Schneider (hamstring) 1 wk Rhys Stanley (hamstring) 1-2 wks Darren Minchington (hip) season This compares well with the miraculous situation over at Arden Street where this is the situation on an almost weekly basis:- NORTH MELBOURNE Leigh Adams (shoulder) test Tom Curran (foot) season [a late addition to this list is Hamish McIntosh who faces LARS surgery on his knee which also rules him out for the season] The end result is that a full strength St. Kilda which needs to make every post a winner is taking on an emaciated Melbourne which is variously considered as tanking, experimenting, suffering from a losing culture (even when it wins games by seven goals). The game will still have its points of interest. Nathan Jones is having a stellar season and has set a great example to many of his teammates as to how to go about things from the very start of the pre season and right through the highs and mainly the lows of the year. It's a pity that very few have followed that example although Tom McDonald is one who has worked hard to make himself a valued member of the team. He took on Nick Riewoldt last time the teams met and acquitted himself well enough to be given the task again. The two skippers have been under fire for most of the year but are slowly coming of age. Their experience in difficult times will hold them in good stead in the years to come when the team takes on a different shape. Against the Saints, Grimes plays only his 50th game. Trengove reached that mark a few weeks ago. One day their appointment as joint captains may well be seen as an inspired move. At the other end of the scale a rejuvenated Green should continue to kick goals but the Demon forward line is bereft of star players. We might see another mark of the year from high flyer Jeremy Howe but, in reality, there's not enough goal kicking capacity for me to say the Demons will get close to causing an upset. The result is a foregone conclusion - an absolute no brainer with the Saints to win and win well. St. Kilda by 40 points If you want a real laugh I recommend the play GROUCHO commencing on 15 August 2012 for a short season at Chapel Off Chapel. If Demonlanders book tickets and confirm their booking and ticket number with Demonland by PM, a donation of $4.00 per ticket will be made to a charity connected with mental health.

Well one thing is certain, the person to blame for this situation is Jack Watts.

I would add another vital component - fire in the belly and a hatred of losing a contest.

Just for those posters that think ,if Viney go to GWS or GC that he will return to us in two years time because of the "Go home" factor We have 19 players on our list/rookie list who have come from interstate 5 from SA 4 from Qld 6 from WA 3 from Tas 1 from NT I think, from memory, 1 went home because he wanted to...(S.Thompson) A couple of others went because they were no longer requied.... All young players get homesick, but the clubs are very good now at intergrating them into their system and very few good players now want to change clubs because they want to go 'home' Judd comes to mind.....There are always rumours that "Oh he wants to go home" but it occurs very rarely now. So if your thinking that we can lose Viney and that he will come back......Forget it.

lol No it isn't. You are so tiresome. Arguing with you is like trying to capture smoke with your bare hands.

Your research further defeats your argument. MM retired players, got rid of untried youth, players with only a couple years experience and experienced players. All things Neeld is about to do.

Not while you keep posting.

You're at it again but you left out "bed-wetter, jack-booted toe-cutter and baby-eating cannibal".

Get well soon you beautiful man you.

I think you'll find that if he's traded they decided it can't.

Who says we are following the "moneyball plan"?? God I am sick of this reference. Most people have no idea what it means and the club has never articulated that is what they are doing. We don't have a shortage of money ATM which is why the Oakland A's couldn't compete with the Yankees. if you believe what you read we are chasing Cloke on big bucks, we are raising funds to have ago at some free agents and we got Clark on big bickies last year. We have plenty of room in our salary cap. That is the opposite of the Moneyball strategy. Neeld simply wants to recruit players that can play to his game plan. Its that simple. He has demonstrated by his actions that he doesn't like Bate, Morton or Gys but likes players like Jetta, Magner and Bail. That's the first part. the next part is getting players who can run and spread, deliver the footy and not turn it over. BTW I havent seen the stats from last week but isn't it amazing how we can hit targets against teams like GC when there is no pressure?? Yet when we are pressured we are hopeless and have massive amounts of turnovers.....

Everyone seems to be posting on the assumption that the media article is correct This is amusing because normally 'landers poo-hah media articles on the mfc as being speculative and mischievous Until I see some confirmation from the club i'll be taking this article with a grain of salt

The departure of Gysberts (pick 11, 2009) and Cook (pick 12, 2010) would put the underline and exclamation point on the utter disaster that was our recruiting under Barry Prendergast. You just can't repeatedly drop gold down a drainpipe like that and expect to be any good as a footy club.

MFC previously the place where NQR's and list cloggers lived high on the hog. What an indictment on the last 5 years. I look forward to the forthcoming catharsis. Never again should the MFC be the graveyard for second rate.

"Insulting" to whom, precious? If the pick is not worth it we just say no and pat our weeping eyes with a hanky

In short, I have a lot more confidence in the direction, structure and approach of the playing list now than I did 12 months ago. To my mind, that says it all really. 2011 was an absolute disaster - and the trend was getting worse, not better. 8.5 wins in 2011 v 3 wins this far in 2012, without proper analysis, is a meaningless comparison. The reality is we were absolutely pathetic last year. We've been absolutely pathetic this year too - but the margins of the losses are smaller and are trending in the right direction - and this is despite an extensive injury list and events off field that have been literally horrendous. I have every confidence in Neeld - and its because of his psychopathic focus on the fundamentals and executing them effectively. The days of the saccharin idealism of the Bailey years are well and truly over. It's an elite competition and, to succeed these days, it's clear clubs need elite discipline and focus - something that wasn't always readily apparent at the MFC previously. I think we'll start to see some of the hardness (to which Neeld referred upon his appointment) start to emerge in round 1 of the NAB Cup next year. BTW, some very good posts on this thread - interesting to read.

I'm surprised with Rivers being told to wait when we seem to be awfully keen to tie up the likes of Jake Spencer & Rohan Bail.

C & B ... Sheedy knows we are committed to the son of a past champion and he will nominate Viney so we have to take him at 3. He will call our flimsy bluff and he'll do it mostly because he hates us.

I thought he went to London for the Olympic Games and won a silver medal in the long jump.

i hope melbourne does end up with him simply because it would give us one of the most potent fwd lines in the comp with Clark/cloke mauling defenders and Jurrah (provided his trial goes well) and others moving around! with clark and cloke up fwd one of them will get the best defender and that will leave the other to dominate. the only question is, is he really worth what he is asking??? at his best he definitely is, and hopefully he can rid himself of his inconsistency at melbourne. that being said anything is far from materialising and we will all have to wait till seasons end to see whether he stays or goes. But the fact that contract talks were put off till seasons end doesn't sound good for collingwood as history proves!!! couldn't happen to a more deserving team haha

I'm amazed at people who complain about 'excuses'. At the end of this year there will be only 1 club where there are no 'excuses' - the winner of the flag. Every other club will have 'excuses', or 'reasons'. I'm happy to accept 'reasons' as log as they are reasonable. So far, Neeld's appear reasonable to me. He could easily add in the horror list of distractions and injuries without stretching reasonableness.

i must say this is one of the best articles on the topic of Mark Neeld. i read this some time back but i still feel it is quite relevant. Neeld is taking us in the right direction but instead of listening to me just read the article. GO DEES!!! http://www.bigpondsp...05/default.aspx

I am. The biggest question mark has got to be whether he actually can build up the required fitness, especially when he's spent so much of his career injured (bad lack of broken jaw notwithstanding). I reckon he's further behind schedule than you seem to think.

Or at the very least one 'Mark Neeld circlejerk superthread' where the 'I believe in Neeld' crew & the 'OMG I can't believe we're not the hardest team to play against yet. Sack Mark Neeld!' mob can continue masturbating in & stop clogging up the boards with 50 threads on the same effing topic?! Oh as well as permabans for anyone who let's their ego get the better of them by posting a new thread on it!?

How were they travelling in 2005? They were [censored] & their nuffy equivalents were calling for Clarkson's head. Sound familiar? Sure there were. Clarkson inherited a list of Crawford, Croad, Sewell, Campbell, Osborne, Bateman, Mitchell & Hodge who were all key parts of their premiership side. He also added the likes of Franklin, Roughead, Lewis & Rioli in the drafts. Neeld is 5 minutes in & has inherited crap. Ever heard of Kevin Sheedy, Mick Malthouse? Masters of deflection & excuses. Their subtlety would probably be lost on the likes of you though. I don't know about that. But perhaps the club should offer a service for some supporters to voluntarily have "nuffie" stamped on their forehead?

I don't have a problem with people criticising Neeld & speculating that he isn't the MFC's next premiership coach. If you watch the team play it is a frustrating process. The players are slow & unthinking, they get sucked in too easily to the contest, in the odd occasion that they win the ball there is no spread, only handballs to stationary targets, the skill level is atrocious, often the get out plan is to go long up the line (on the full). We struggle to win contested ball even against the effing expansion sides & can not seem to score for large chunks of matches just like under DB. Brent Moloney was a B&F last year & won 19 Brownlow votes but his form has gone so far backwards he is pretty much a fringe player who seems unhappy at the club. These are all issues for which I believe Mark Neeld needs to bare some responsibility. Therefore I can't criticise any poster that pots Neeld for these problems. I'm willing to back him in to turn these things around. To bring some balance to the argument it is hard to think of a first year coach that has had a tougher initiation. He inherited a fractured club after the departure of DB & the aftermath of the soul destroying 186. Tom Scully's departure was still a foul stench in the air when Neeld took the chair. He had the tough task of trying to overhaul the FD & onfield leadership of the club after Brad Green's disastrous 1 year stint as captain. Liam Jurrah's problems, Jim Stynes lost his battle with cancer, the club lost a major sponsor through sheer dickwittery, sub par fitness, massive injury lists & adjustment to a radically different gameplan were always going to be tough factors for Neeld to negotiate. Its been an extremely tough initiation. On that basis I'm prepared to cut him some slack & measure my expectations accordingly. Expectations come into it as well. Neeld has probably inherited a more impatient fanbase than most other coaches, the prevailing logic is seemingly that the MFC has served its penance in the cellar under Bailey. It has become apparent in 2012 that the recruiting has not been great. Morton is still a fringe player, Maric was delisted, Watts isn't close to being a KPF in the mould of Riewoldt, Blease is fringe, ditto Strauss, Scully bolted, Gysberts has played 1 game, Tapscott has struggled & Cook is a million miles away. These were all supposed to be key planks in a rebuilt Demons team. Of the 07-11 drafts you'd say that only Trengove, Grimes & Clark are definite keepers, it's an effing disaster! Combine this with injuries to Jurrah, Clark & Jamar as well as the declining form of the likes of Green, Sylvia & Moloney is it any wonder we're [censored]? Nuffies will point to last year that we won 8.5 games but in reality we were going backwards. We beat Adelaide & Freo at their lowest ebb, were underwhelming against GC x2, scraped home against a couple of the worst Brisbane & Port sides ever assembled, our 2 good wins were against Richmond (who went past us later) & Essendon in the middle of a form slump. The only decent side we got within a bull's roar of was the round 1 draw with Sydney (who we beat by 74 points in our previous meeting. The rest of the year was marred by thumpings, tactical ineptitude & basically failing every test possible. They also point to Neeld's quotes about being the "hardest team to play against" & wonder why it hasn't been the case in his first year. Like it was some iron clad promise to do it overnight. While it's doubtful anybody could've done a worse job this year than Neeld it's equally doubtful whether anyone could've done better in the same set of circumstances. He has a power of work to do, the drafting and trading period will tell us a lot about his intent. He has a three year contract to get us up to competitive standard. To sack him before that would be a sign of an inept, directionless club. No credible coach will want to touch us with a barge pole & you'd be worried about the mental state of anybody keen to work for such a rabble. I don't profess to know if he is a coaching mastermind but I'm happy to back him in & see how it unfolds. He has my conditional support, I think everybody else owes him that too at this early stage.

Can't. Tell. If. Serious.

The trade that landed the Saints Milera and Saad was an absolute masterstroke. From memory they gave pick 20, and got Milera, Saad and pick 25 from GWS. All of a sudden with these two and Jack Steven coming on the Saints are a quick side. The Dees must do something similar with our pick in the low 40's and/or Bate, Petterd etc. I'm not sure how Tim Harrington still has a job when he was the 'List Manager' of a list with more holes than Swiss cheese.