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I'm not worried about watts, I must be one of the few but il be happy if he plays up the field because I think playing on flank is ideal for him, the more he gets the ball the happier I am because his disposal is top notch! He will be fine, I would be more than happy to see him back in the team ASAP

Cale Morton is a midfielder, neeld is playing him as a midfielder, not a loose defender, tagged, forward flank, he is thriving when playing his role, I remember talking to him last year and he told me he thought that he would Be more valuable playing a midfield role and obviously he is! He knows how to get to the right spots and can use it well

Latin is more welcome on here than your avatar, sg...

FFS, haven't you guys learnt anything from Bailey's failures. WE NEED SENIOR PLAYERS. Sylvia has played one full game under the new regime and he's trade bait?

We need senior players. Keep them both.

Pass the pethadienne pipe Geddy. You my friend are definately on the good stuff!!Carlscum: just going, we are a chance (at winning the toss)

I'm very confused about Watts. He played every game last year, kicked 21 goals for the season and set up a lot, averaged over 16 possessions a game and seemed to have a steady improvement, and was deservedly placed in the top ten of our B&F. From what I have seen this year his form has slightly dropped off and there are still weaknesses such as his toughness and his ability to lead from the fifty. But I do think he is in our top 10 best players and is a talented guy, I feel that his dropping must be illogical and it's a bold move. I'd like to see him back on Friday night and hopefully the week off has made him hungrier for success. I do not want to see him out for extended lengths because I feel we are disadvantaged. Could Neeld be a bit unsettled by Watts and more sceptical about him compared with Bailey's attitude to developing him? Time will tell. Keep in mind that Watts has played 42 consecutive games. Excuse me for continuing the Watts-Riewoldt comparison, but in Riewoldt's 2002 season (his 2nd) and Watts' 2011 (his 3rd, I know in that sense the comparison is off but Watts was a younger draftee and hardly had a 2009 season) they both played every game and kicked the same number (21 goals). Watts had more of the ball and Riewoldt took more marks. But I think that is a good enough indication to suggest that Watts will be a key force in about 2 years, providing he continues the little things he does well, improves his marking capabilities (we have seen him take a few good grabs before) and finding the ball inside fifty. I still see a good forward set up with Watts, Jurrah, Clark, Green and Petterd, along with Howe and Davey that hasn't been available for sussing this season (Bye bye Dunn and perhaps Bate)

I understand completely what you are saying, but I disagree. Watts might not compete as often or with as much intensity as you'd like, but I think it's well within him. He just needs a mindset adjustment. It's not like he flinches, pulls out of contests or ducks his head. He just doesn't go in anywhere often enough. I've seen him go for pack marks without fear, put his head over the ball and win a hard contested footy. It is within him. We just need to get him in the mindset to do it a hell of a lot more.

Well I will still go to all the games in melbourne and back in jan I got cheap flights to darwin so Im venturing there. Im writing this season off and just dont get fussed anymore. I see this is a year to learn Neeld's game plan and if we are still in the same position this time next year then I will be worried. But I think next year we will be ok. I see this as a learning season. I have faith in the coach.

I was with you until the last garbage sentence, never want to see a MFC taking cheap shots, its a disgrace.

You're quite right. But the point was valid. For the last 4 years I've been watching two Melbourne players tackle one opponent leaving the second opponent free for the hand off. For those who didn't hear Mick Malthouse on the weekend, he said this was a 'trust' issue, meaning that at the moment Melbourne players don't trust their team mates to effect a proper tackle so go in to help. This just allows the opposition a free player. When players start to 'trust' each other, Mick says this won't happen. When Malthouse uses the word 'trust' he's not talking about honesty but effectiveness and I thought he made the point clearly and appropriately. And when Neeld talks about building foundations I now understand better what he means.

Not when you're monumentally failing in your role yourself.

Gulp, chomp, chew, swallow, gasp, cough, etc. Could this be the sound of me eating my own words? Morton actually looked like a player on Saturday. Not a match-winner but more like someone who might just be responding to Neeld and co's coaching. If the improvement continues I might just enjoy the meal.

The vision of Viney was very encouraging. What I liked the most was his forward momentum. We know that he is a raging bull of a kid but what is impressive is power out of the contest. His first few steps are very strong and generally towards goal. This suggests a very strong core and legs. He may not be that quick over 40 metres but his first few steps should get him clear. It also makes him hard to tackle. We have lacked a real clearance player. Viney explodes out of packs with his head and weight forward. Moloney is ok, but he stands up straight and takes them on. Viney may be just the thing we need. His kicking isn't brilliant but his hands are quick and accurate. I was a little sceptical about the hype around Viney. I doubted his skill level but now I'm excited about this kid (as we all are). Given that he is still only 17yo the future looks pretty good. The other thing that struck me was how much of an "unsociable" footballer he is. You get the feeling that he will never take a backward step and will be someone that opposition players will hate playing on. We saw how important it is to have a fearless player with genuine class when Lenny Hayes finished us off last week.

I actually think he does pretty well in the air for someone his build/weight and he even manages to snare the odd strong body on body mark. What he doesn't do is crash packs. And he won't. Maybe late in his career, bit atm he is better one on one or on the lead: and when was the last time we kicked to anyone on a lead?

Clark's game yesterday was a fantastic tribute to his desire to perform at the level his enormous salary demands. Geelong supporters near me at the game yesterday started the game deriding him yelling" is that worth 3.2 million?" etc. Soon they had to shut up. ( apart from booing as he ran in to kick for goal after that sensational mark running back with the flight). If he had been playing for Geelong and marked the way he did for us, he'd have kicked a dozen goals. I was absolutely filled with admiration for his efforts yesterday, and proudly clapped his efforts amongst the silence.

It's an example of what happens when you play players where they're most comfortable.

The one thing Neeld has done which is simple is given him the opportunity to play in the middle. He's said, yeah I know you are still skinny but you should have a seasoned body and there's no excuse not to have a go. I think eventually he'll still end up on a wing as it suits his attributes but the opportunity to get him in the guts has been good. I still have 3 or more Morton cringe moments each game, but I can at least see he's a guy prepared to win the ball and have a go now. His quickness in reading the play is probably his best attribute and I see why its working for him in close. He's playing a simple brand of footy and its working.

The fitter our players become the better they will be. many of them are coming from a very low fitness base that its going to take time to get them up. it takes more than a few months!! The players that were fitter than the others when Neeld and Co took over are improving in leaps and bounds as the season moves on ala Jones, Clark ,Frawley!! Quite sure we will have a more successful back half to the season.

I don't know if it's the burden of captaincy, but Trengove has been horribly out of form. That said, I thought his last quarter was the best he'd played all year and is hopefully the portent of things to come. The talk of changing the captaincy by some on this thread is patent rubbish. Clearly you know it won't happen, so why even bring it up ? It won't happen now and it won't happen next year. The club will help them grow into the roles and keep nurturing them.

Of the highlights of Jack Watts' limited career I think it's fair to say that most of them are between the 50m arcs. Let him thrive in space on the wing, pinch hitter in the forward 50 at times, sweep into defence as an extra defender when needed. He will show glimpses of class but will also have many scratching heads as well. Main point. He is not a 'power forward'. he is an athletic utility really.

Well Ive just seen the Viney incident on Before the Game, looked worse than I remembered at the game, agreed Wojo is gone. Of the Demons players: Blease - great last half where his running to space and with the ball in his hand was a feature. Took a half to get into it though, hardly noticed him in first half. One more above average game next week and he'll get a callup I suspect, we sorely his need line breaking leg speed in the seniors. Fitzpatrick - As previously mentioned the real eye opener for me. Was the focal point up forward whenever he was there, lead hard and repeatedly all day, kept working hard when the ball was on the ground and also toiled away sufficiently when pinch hitting for the resting Spencer. The first time Ive seen him look comfortably above most VFL listed players out on the ground, very pleasing game. WIll I believe get a game next week at the expense of Sellar or Dunn. with the bonus that he'll be a more viable relieving ruckman than the aforementioned. Jurrah - Started off well, went in and out of the game as to be expected, but glimpses of the magic werent far from the surface. 1 maybe 2 more weeks at this level and he'll be back in, didnt do enough for mine just yet to earn a birth. Davis - Beaten by his opponent Kersten in too many contests, and also made a few questionable play switches in the last line, not his best game.Seems a little bit too much of an 'in-between' height for mine also as a defender. Bennell - Another very good game from Bennell, his confidence levels seem to be very high at the moment,taking the game on, initiating runs and forcing teammates to run to spaces that he creates, he was a great livewire creating presence off the half back line Couch - A sold game,was in and under where you would expect a player of his ilk to be. Disposal when inside 50 left a bit to be desired, his obvious one-paced approach wont give the selectors enough variety to what theyve already got, so I think he will remain playing for the Scorps for the time being. Nicholson - Busy without being a standout, I suspect he had a run with/stopping role this week. Never one that stands out for mine, although his pace is still there. Lawrence - Ever enthusiastic, he doesnt have enough of an impact with his limited stats, needs to work harder further up the ground to earn his own ball. Spencer - Up against Orren Stephenson who gave his midfield great service, Spencer was serviceable. Tried hard and provided a presence around the ground which was pleasing. Kicked a goal too which was good to see. Cook - OK game, kicked a couple and looked OK when he lead at the right times, but the focus of our inside balls was predominantly Spencer. Will be good for the run, hopefully can build his confidence up and be able to lead with a bit more authority. Petterd - A very good second half for Ricky P. Was running around doing as he pleased off a HFF/wing. Has too much class for this level clearly, will come under consideration for next week against the Hawks Sheahan - Did a few nice things, seems to read the play well and has a good height about him. Still needs to put on a bit of muscle but I can see a future for him in the red and blue. First time Ive seen him play in any form. Probably broke even with his opponent on the day. Taggart - Didnt notice the Scotsman that much ,although it was a good show of faith in his ability that he did start a lot of times in the centre square. Will be keen to watch him improve over the year at Casey and possibly push for a 'Grimes/Fitzpatrick' game in Round 24. Watts - Workrate was reasonable, but is the kind of player you can never really tell how hard he is pushing, has a certain laconic nature about him. Despite the stats and four goals, I still dont think he did enough, as harsh as that sounds. General consensus around us in the Melbourne bay was the same, he simply needs to show more urgency and hunger. Will he get a recall next week? 50/50 really, depends if the match committee saw it the same way I did. No for me. Viney - What an eventful debut! Having seen him play in under 18s last year I knew what to expect from him, and the stepup in level provided no problems for the young tyro. He reminds me of Luke Power, tough, short, continually finds the ball and loves the contest. Crunched into two Cats players in the third quarter, dusted himself off and ran off while both Cats lay stricken. Was everywhere around the ground, helping out down back, pushing forward. This kid will be in the starting 18 come round 1 next year, there is no doubt about that. I thought they may have only given him a half or so given he has missed quite a bit with OP, but his intensity did not wane all afternoon until he was hit by Wojinski. A debut to remember for all the right and wrong reasons. A very solid win for Casey with a very good squad, so no real surprises in a way. Also thought that Riseley, Lees and McGough played well of the Casey listed players Will give our percentage an enormous boost too, given it was barely over 100!

Morton is having a crack. I don't mind mistakes or the odd turnover if you're having a crack. I respect Cale's efforts over the last two games.

Now, I've been one of his biggest critics. I used some choice words last year and copped a blasting from RR via PM. But now, well. I'm not eating my words yet, but I've certainly selected them from the tank and I'm sending them to the chef to be cooked. But the interesting part is what he's doing. He's getting into the hard ball contest as well as playing his outside role. Sure, he's made some mistakes, but nothing like some of the terrible ones of yesteryear. He's genuinely trying to win his own ball and offer a contest. And I wonder. Morton was lost in 2011. Didn't have a clue. Got caught out of position, couldn't move with the run when we had it and offered nothing but clangers. Now he's actually getting involved, presenting an option and hitting a target. And I have to wonder. Particularly after the first game. I'm thinking Neeld has sat him down personally (not gone through Choco) and gone over the tape from that first game this year - the Richmond game, where he was so far outside it was a joke. Neeld has gone over his outside play, which wasn't bad apart from the clanger on the HFF and shown where he needs to hit the contest, and Morton now has the maturity to understand and adapt his game. He's at that perfect stage - not too soon in the system to be able to assess himself, but at the same time still malleable and adjustable. The problem is that Morton is right now our only definite outside type. Blease needs form and fitness, Sylvia too. The rest of our midfield seems to be totally inside apart from JT, who can do both but is low on confidence. Once we get some outside-ness into other types as well as the inside skill, we will be more ok.

Are we going to have to put up with threads like these every week? The two Jacks are learning on the job. Don't expect Voss and Hird in their third and fourth years of football. They have been picked to grow into the role. Get used to it!

It was great seeing Liam play again after what he's been through these past 8 months. I reckon he went ok, and was one of the best in the opening quarter. He showed he had bit in reserve when he spun around and goaled over his shoulder in the last quarter, before leading out for a mark and just missing another shot. He then followed up with a lightning hand pass goal assist. I'm no expert, but his touch was pretty good, but he probably needs 2-3 weeks in the VFL to build up his match fitness. All in all it was a good hit out for him and his coaches should be pleased to see him get through a game after being out for so long. Today I'm a happy man.

I think that's a bit disingenuous. It's possible to like him as a person, yet still be critical of decisions he has made.

Don't tell me the club are going to stand quietly by and let this incident go unpunished as seems to be the case as reported on our website. I urge supporters to email the club as I have done. "As a long standing and passionate member of this footy club I will be extremely disappointed if the incident which led to the fracture in Jack Viney’s cheekbone is not investigated by the VFL and the offender appropriately punished. For too long we have meekly accepted the AFL/VFL findings in similar incidents and two that readily come to mind are those involving Bail and Sylvia. For a seasoned veteran to attack the head of a teenage first gamer is nothing short of disgraceful therefor I urge the club to lobby for an investigation." Email to - [email protected]

Garland was one of our best against Geelong and has been building a solid string of games. Cannot agree with that assessment at all.

I am convinced col would be a massive hit at Sydney. They eat up these sorts of challenges. Half their list is recycled players, nearly all of whom were worse players than they are now they are in the Sydney 'bubble'

Have you watched Melbourne play at Geelong or at AAMI? Both are extremely hostile environments, especially Geelong, which holds only 25000(less at present due to renovs), when the their club has 40000-odd members. There's no room for opposition supporters . This lack of support must affect the players. It also affects the umpires.

KPI Contested Possession Differential 2010 > -1.2 2011 > -5.5 2012 > -6.8 BL: 2; WCE: -31; Rich: -14; WB: -4; StK: 5; Geel: 1 Inside 50 Differential 2010 > -7.2 2011 > -6.2 2012 > -21.7 BL: -8; WCE: -45; Rich: -35; WB: -4; StK: -22; Geel: -16 Clearance Differential 2010 > -2 2011 > -2.8 2012 > -4.5 BL: -12; WCE: -5; Rich: -18; WB: 7; StK: 8; Geel: -7 Disposal Efficiency (%) & Differential (%) 2011 > ??? 2012 > 66.2 (-9) BL: 65 (-8); WCE: 71 (-6); Rich: 66 (-11); WB: 61 (-13); StK: 61 (-8); Geel: 73 (-8) Marks Inside 50 Average & Differential 2011 > ??? 2012 > 7.5 (-5.2) BL: 5 (-10); WCE: 3 (-9); Rich: 14 (-2); WB: 10 (6); StK: 3 (-8); Geel: 10 (-8) Scores Against average 2010 > 89.6 2011 > 105 2012 > 118.2 BL: 119; WCE: 166; Rich: 133; WB: 88; StK: 84; Geel: 119 Percentage 2010 > 94.5 2011 > 85.3 2012 > 59.1 Analysis Ok, well a few on here didn't like what they saw down in Mordor but that is them putting aside the fact that we are not a very good team at the minute. Lost the clearances and the I50s, and were beaten with marks inside 50. BUT we won the contested footy count against a very solid team in their stomping ground - not something to be sneezed at in our current plight. For the record - we lost the contested possessions by 48 in THAT game last year...

The trouble is that against good opposition Moloney doesn't win his own ball, his best football is played when Jamar feeds him and they don't allow it. If it doesn't come to him he doesn't go out of his way to get after it. He has continually burned team mates in better positions not a couple of inches away but in a much better position than him. It still sits in my mind how Mark McClure labelled Moloney and Silvia as dumb footballers a few seasons back and I think it's still the case. Maybe I have a blinkered view about Moloney like a lot have about Morton, but he drives me to distraction.

Love your work Jose. Keep posting in this fashion, most of your footy obs are first class, don't get sucked down by some other posters. With Bail and a few others it will also depend on what defensive roles they have been set, even so I think Bail needs to go both ways and he has the tank to do it.

I wonder where we would be if he hadn't asked the question to Green...where would Schwab be ? How would our FD look ? Whether or not he doesn't read very well, he instigated change. Maybe for the better...time will tell.

I think he's trying to find that out too. He's a very good complementary player, Bail. I think his performance improves with the team, but he really depends on other players getting their roles right. When they do, he can get into position to link play very well. When it breaks down he has difficulty imposing himself on the contest.

Originally, when I was a little tired and emotional, I wanted to jam it right up Sheedy's clacker and call his bluff. My rage was along the lines of "I've followed a soft club that has been pushed around for years and I want this club to make a stand". I usually come to my senses (debatable), and realised that of course we'll take young Jack and pay whatever we have to. He's that good that it won't matter and as Robbie mentioned, he'll have a head start on every other draftee, he's what we desperately need, and we'll still (potentially) be kicking huge goals in this draft with other quality opportunities. A couple of other things: if we can come up with something to satisfy GWS and GC to prevent them bidding then I'm all for it. Pipedream ? And I don't understand why some think we declared our hand too early. We're getting extra development into Viney, we weren't a lay down misere to get him in the first place, and once he agreed to terms other clubs knew we'd take him. Anyone that has followed Viney's progress knows that most consider him to be top 10 and once you're top 10 you're splitting hairs after the first couple. He won about 4 B&F's in a row at Ashburton junior footy club; he had to be put up a year at junior level because he was hurting the other kids; his junior coach said he's the toughest junior he's seen; he dominated the under 16 carnival when he represented SA as a bottom aged player; Terry Wallace has stated he's the best clearance player he's seen come through junior ranks in the last 5 years; he won the medal for best afield in last year's TAC Cup grand final in a losing team; David King stated recently that he "liked hurting people" and he nominated him to be in the best 10 players in the league in 5 years; and to top it off, an 18 year old debutante at VFL level brushes off a trainer as he comes off the ground with a fractured bone in his face. Let's just be happy he's ours.

These two players will grow into better players earlier because of the responsibility heaped upon them. We might not see their best football this year but I believe it will help them develop into better players in the long term. I believe both of them will relish the challenge ahead of them & work even harder to succeed than what they would have before. They both need time & patience. In the long run the club will reap the benefits through their peers following the example they set in preparation & attitude to hard work. As a club that is what we need & something none of the former leadership group was able to do.

My observations from the game (watched from the 20 minute mark off the 1st quarter) Jack Viney will be a star for the club. It was a sickening collision in front of us well into the 4th quarter. Would think Wojcinski will be rubbed out for some weeks. Up until that point, Jack look composed and was in and amongst everything. Glad I was able to witness his performance. Jack Watts - 4 goals and possessions. Rotated through the forward line and across the wing. Personally thought the stats flattered him. Felt he lacked the intensity to earn a recall and lacked awareness at times. Took ace mark in the last quarter whilst being held on to. Needs to bring the mongrel out in him ala Mitch Clarke's attack on opponents. Liam Jurrah - better for having a run. Did some nice silky moves, created play, spun out of trouble with magic, not sure he would have a match tank to play 4 quarters of AFL next week. Jack Fitzpatrick - Was impressed with his deceptive speed for his size. Played a very good game up forward and relief in the ruck with goals to show for it. Could be the week to bring him in against the Hawks. Did some nice things below the knees which I was impressed by. Jai Sheahan - had a very good game in defense in my opinion. Good size on the kid and pace, seemed to have good read of the play. Be very interested to see how he continues to develop. Jamie Bennell - he looks so good at this level. Nice run and carry out of defense. Needs to translate it when he steps up to AFL Level. Has the pace that could add something for Melbourne. Tom Couch - his dad was sitting near us for the day. A few calls from around us that he should be playing for Melbourne. Had plenty of the footy again and showed determination. Not sure he has forced his way in for a senior call up. Lucas Cook - took a very nice mark in front of us from a lead - was being rotated through the forward line so hard to judge his efforts, but he did a couple of nice things. When Jurrah and Watts are back at senior level, will be good for Lucas to be a presence in the forward line and see how he goes. Jake Spencer - okay sort of game, without being a clear winner at stoppages. Don't want to sound harsh thou as just coming back and he needs more games to build up confidence. Ricky Petterd - a few people around me were asking how come he is playing VFL and not AFL. He doesn't seem to be able to get a regular run at Melbourne. Showed a bit today with some passages of play. Rory Taggert - was involved in some good passages of play with some good foot skills hitting targets under pressure. Not ready yet for a senior call-up. Sam Blease - do not know how to rate his performance today... Has pace and when he uses it, he looks very silky and can cut through an opposition. Had a few turnovers early. Dan Nicholson - thought he had a good game and was involved all day. Was all over the ground as you would expect. Troy Davis - struggled in my opinion - looked the least confident of the Melbourne listed players and future Melbourne listed player in Jack Viney. Not sure where he fits in the pecking order. Kelvin Lawrence - have a soft spot for this kid. Not afraid to go in and showed that today with his attack on the footy

he's becoming a player .Slowly. He will get here . Go Cale . (Eat up).

He's beginning to feign in traffic, that's right feign in traffic. Last player to do that was one T.Johnstone! Cale has improved as said in his weaker areas and is getting the ball on more occasions in the pack than most. If his skills+decision making improve then this kid could have turned the corner completely. He's surprised me as well as many others so far, as long as he keeps it up. And yes I now believe it, Cale Morton is winning contested possessions and tackling well!

I'm more disappointed about Gysberts' injury and Viney's. Viney is a tough kid and there's no doubt that come years end he'll still be ahead of most of the kids his age. I rate Gysberts and I'm impatient about his development, so I find this latest setback very frustrating.

Morton is one of those lucky bastards who has an IQ through the roof to go with his talent, so if he's "cottoning on" quicker than everyone else then that's probably not surprising. I think the intent is there and the confidence is improving and his use of the ball is improving as a result. He made some excellent decisions both in traffic and in the open today. As B-H said - mistakes are forgivable so long as he keeps doing the right "fundamental" things.

I'm starting to think Neeld and co maybe the making of Cale. Its not that he is improving, its that he has improved in the areas that he was so weak. The contested, hard stuff and his skills have improved. What i'm liking even more is that he is doing the tackles naturally and not shirking the issue when its his turn to go. An area everyone hated about him previously.

6. Clark, for crumbing goals, taking pack marks and generally making Leigh Matthews look like a dill. 5. Frawley, for keeping the in-form forward in the competition to 1 goal. 4. Morton, for taking another step forward in his development and proving his critics wrong. 3. Jones, for doing what he always does. Not much needs to be said about him, because he brings it each and every week. 2. Garland, for doing a fairly good job on Steve Johnson (or as every idiot in the media calls him, "Stevie Jay") and giving us a few good inside 50 deliveries in the second half 1. McDonald, for working well in defence and moving up into the wings to provide an option from time to time.

Jack's mum is going to kill Todd...

Jesus Strawberry... that avatar.

Clark was a forward as a junior. He couldn't fit into Brisbanes forward line with Brown and Bradshaw but he was so good they wanted him out there so they played him in the ruck. Last year he was played forward only because Brown was injured, he kicked 27 goals when he probably didn't really understand the team leading patterns due to training with the rucks all pre-season. This year he came to us, and solely worked on being a forward and kicked 10 goals in 4 games, straightened up our whole side and gave us a hard edge in the forward line. People want to move him???? He had one good year as a ruckman (where he was not better than Jamar in his AA year) then the rest of his career he was a very skilled player who was never really given ownership of a position. He is a forward!! Always was, it's Brisbane that took him out of his comfort zone not us, the fact he did well is a testament to Mitch as a footballer, not as a ruckman.

Not sure what Mitch Clark has done that would make anyone doubt he isn't exactly what we need up forward. I am sure he could do the job in the ruck also, but I think he has been excellent so far this season considering the minimal amount of inside 50's and the shite delivery of those entries.

Keep him at full forward. We on this forum and the club have been crying out for a pack-crashing, bag kicking forward, and we finally have him. Let Jamar, Martin and eventually Gawn handle the ruck duties.