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Well Ive just seen the Viney incident on Before the Game, looked worse than I remembered at the game, agreed Wojo is gone. Of the Demons players: Blease - great last half where his running to space and with the ball in his hand was a feature. Took a half to get into it though, hardly noticed him in first half. One more above average game next week and he'll get a callup I suspect, we sorely his need line breaking leg speed in the seniors. Fitzpatrick - As previously mentioned the real eye opener for me. Was the focal point up forward whenever he was there, lead hard and repeatedly all day, kept working hard when the ball was on the ground and also toiled away sufficiently when pinch hitting for the resting Spencer. The first time Ive seen him look comfortably above most VFL listed players out on the ground, very pleasing game. WIll I believe get a game next week at the expense of Sellar or Dunn. with the bonus that he'll be a more viable relieving ruckman than the aforementioned. Jurrah - Started off well, went in and out of the game as to be expected, but glimpses of the magic werent far from the surface. 1 maybe 2 more weeks at this level and he'll be back in, didnt do enough for mine just yet to earn a birth. Davis - Beaten by his opponent Kersten in too many contests, and also made a few questionable play switches in the last line, not his best game.Seems a little bit too much of an 'in-between' height for mine also as a defender. Bennell - Another very good game from Bennell, his confidence levels seem to be very high at the moment,taking the game on, initiating runs and forcing teammates to run to spaces that he creates, he was a great livewire creating presence off the half back line Couch - A sold game,was in and under where you would expect a player of his ilk to be. Disposal when inside 50 left a bit to be desired, his obvious one-paced approach wont give the selectors enough variety to what theyve already got, so I think he will remain playing for the Scorps for the time being. Nicholson - Busy without being a standout, I suspect he had a run with/stopping role this week. Never one that stands out for mine, although his pace is still there. Lawrence - Ever enthusiastic, he doesnt have enough of an impact with his limited stats, needs to work harder further up the ground to earn his own ball. Spencer - Up against Orren Stephenson who gave his midfield great service, Spencer was serviceable. Tried hard and provided a presence around the ground which was pleasing. Kicked a goal too which was good to see. Cook - OK game, kicked a couple and looked OK when he lead at the right times, but the focus of our inside balls was predominantly Spencer. Will be good for the run, hopefully can build his confidence up and be able to lead with a bit more authority. Petterd - A very good second half for Ricky P. Was running around doing as he pleased off a HFF/wing. Has too much class for this level clearly, will come under consideration for next week against the Hawks Sheahan - Did a few nice things, seems to read the play well and has a good height about him. Still needs to put on a bit of muscle but I can see a future for him in the red and blue. First time Ive seen him play in any form. Probably broke even with his opponent on the day. Taggart - Didnt notice the Scotsman that much ,although it was a good show of faith in his ability that he did start a lot of times in the centre square. Will be keen to watch him improve over the year at Casey and possibly push for a 'Grimes/Fitzpatrick' game in Round 24. Watts - Workrate was reasonable, but is the kind of player you can never really tell how hard he is pushing, has a certain laconic nature about him. Despite the stats and four goals, I still dont think he did enough, as harsh as that sounds. General consensus around us in the Melbourne bay was the same, he simply needs to show more urgency and hunger. Will he get a recall next week? 50/50 really, depends if the match committee saw it the same way I did. No for me. Viney - What an eventful debut! Having seen him play in under 18s last year I knew what to expect from him, and the stepup in level provided no problems for the young tyro. He reminds me of Luke Power, tough, short, continually finds the ball and loves the contest. Crunched into two Cats players in the third quarter, dusted himself off and ran off while both Cats lay stricken. Was everywhere around the ground, helping out down back, pushing forward. This kid will be in the starting 18 come round 1 next year, there is no doubt about that. I thought they may have only given him a half or so given he has missed quite a bit with OP, but his intensity did not wane all afternoon until he was hit by Wojinski. A debut to remember for all the right and wrong reasons. A very solid win for Casey with a very good squad, so no real surprises in a way. Also thought that Riseley, Lees and McGough played well of the Casey listed players Will give our percentage an enormous boost too, given it was barely over 100!

My observations from the game (watched from the 20 minute mark off the 1st quarter) Jack Viney will be a star for the club. It was a sickening collision in front of us well into the 4th quarter. Would think Wojcinski will be rubbed out for some weeks. Up until that point, Jack look composed and was in and amongst everything. Glad I was able to witness his performance. Jack Watts - 4 goals and possessions. Rotated through the forward line and across the wing. Personally thought the stats flattered him. Felt he lacked the intensity to earn a recall and lacked awareness at times. Took ace mark in the last quarter whilst being held on to. Needs to bring the mongrel out in him ala Mitch Clarke's attack on opponents. Liam Jurrah - better for having a run. Did some nice silky moves, created play, spun out of trouble with magic, not sure he would have a match tank to play 4 quarters of AFL next week. Jack Fitzpatrick - Was impressed with his deceptive speed for his size. Played a very good game up forward and relief in the ruck with goals to show for it. Could be the week to bring him in against the Hawks. Did some nice things below the knees which I was impressed by. Jai Sheahan - had a very good game in defense in my opinion. Good size on the kid and pace, seemed to have good read of the play. Be very interested to see how he continues to develop. Jamie Bennell - he looks so good at this level. Nice run and carry out of defense. Needs to translate it when he steps up to AFL Level. Has the pace that could add something for Melbourne. Tom Couch - his dad was sitting near us for the day. A few calls from around us that he should be playing for Melbourne. Had plenty of the footy again and showed determination. Not sure he has forced his way in for a senior call up. Lucas Cook - took a very nice mark in front of us from a lead - was being rotated through the forward line so hard to judge his efforts, but he did a couple of nice things. When Jurrah and Watts are back at senior level, will be good for Lucas to be a presence in the forward line and see how he goes. Jake Spencer - okay sort of game, without being a clear winner at stoppages. Don't want to sound harsh thou as just coming back and he needs more games to build up confidence. Ricky Petterd - a few people around me were asking how come he is playing VFL and not AFL. He doesn't seem to be able to get a regular run at Melbourne. Showed a bit today with some passages of play. Rory Taggert - was involved in some good passages of play with some good foot skills hitting targets under pressure. Not ready yet for a senior call-up. Sam Blease - do not know how to rate his performance today... Has pace and when he uses it, he looks very silky and can cut through an opposition. Had a few turnovers early. Dan Nicholson - thought he had a good game and was involved all day. Was all over the ground as you would expect. Troy Davis - struggled in my opinion - looked the least confident of the Melbourne listed players and future Melbourne listed player in Jack Viney. Not sure where he fits in the pecking order. Kelvin Lawrence - have a soft spot for this kid. Not afraid to go in and showed that today with his attack on the footy

Originally, when I was a little tired and emotional, I wanted to jam it right up Sheedy's clacker and call his bluff. My rage was along the lines of "I've followed a soft club that has been pushed around for years and I want this club to make a stand". I usually come to my senses (debatable), and realised that of course we'll take young Jack and pay whatever we have to. He's that good that it won't matter and as Robbie mentioned, he'll have a head start on every other draftee, he's what we desperately need, and we'll still (potentially) be kicking huge goals in this draft with other quality opportunities. A couple of other things: if we can come up with something to satisfy GWS and GC to prevent them bidding then I'm all for it. Pipedream ? And I don't understand why some think we declared our hand too early. We're getting extra development into Viney, we weren't a lay down misere to get him in the first place, and once he agreed to terms other clubs knew we'd take him. Anyone that has followed Viney's progress knows that most consider him to be top 10 and once you're top 10 you're splitting hairs after the first couple. He won about 4 B&F's in a row at Ashburton junior footy club; he had to be put up a year at junior level because he was hurting the other kids; his junior coach said he's the toughest junior he's seen; he dominated the under 16 carnival when he represented SA as a bottom aged player; Terry Wallace has stated he's the best clearance player he's seen come through junior ranks in the last 5 years; he won the medal for best afield in last year's TAC Cup grand final in a losing team; David King stated recently that he "liked hurting people" and he nominated him to be in the best 10 players in the league in 5 years; and to top it off, an 18 year old debutante at VFL level brushes off a trainer as he comes off the ground with a fractured bone in his face. Let's just be happy he's ours.

If you are going to drop Trengove is it not unreasonable to state why? He's having a go and does all the little things right unlike half our players. Even if you are to drop him isn't it reasonable to trial him as a forward or a half back flanker and drop someone who is offering nothing. Have a little think here people.

Neeld Football ™ is a hard, accountable, no-frills brand that will stand up in finals. That's what it's about and we need the requisite group of players to carry out his instructions. No single player will return us to dominance, but as Carlton have shown with Judd, the introduction of a top-tier elite midfielder can have a transformative effect on the rest of the list. I agree with what you're saying but bottom line is we need an A-grade midfield if we're going to have any hope in this competition. And we need it now, not in 4 years time.We're averaging something like 100 less possessions per match than our opposition at the moment. That's the problem that needs to be fixed above all others. Dangerfield to lead the way, Viney and Prestia into the middle. Suddenly Trengove, McKenzie and Jones have some quality to work alongside of and we're in business.

Rivers is in B&F form. Ridiculous. Long-term, TMac is the replacement, but right now no way

I am a Bail fan, but time for him to have a spell with Casey. Sellar was also ordinary today, not quite sure why he played down back all pre-season and McDonald played forward all pre-season, and then come the real stuff they are both switched around. And before anyone else says it, can we not get on the 'drop Dunn bandwagon'. He has been the sub 2 or 3 times this year, so you can forget those games, and has played as a defensive forward very effectively in most other games, and if there is a more reliable kick for goal from 50-60m I haven't seen them. Not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination, but there are 5 or 6 blokes in the gun before him.

Very impressed and relieved with his efforts against Geelong. Something I noticed in the WCE game was a serious lack of contested marking, that he even feared contests a bit. In his first 4 games he got a total of 4 contested marks and that's a pretty big worry as a KPF. The goals were coming and keeping most happy but that's what was getting at me. For the heart he showed in the WB game and to back it up with 6 contested marks against Geelong yesterday is phenomenal (especially that one running with the flight of the ball, that's courage). Any initial doubts I had have been put to rest.

Cale Morton is a midfielder, neeld is playing him as a midfielder, not a loose defender, tagged, forward flank, he is thriving when playing his role, I remember talking to him last year and he told me he thought that he would Be more valuable playing a midfield role and obviously he is! He knows how to get to the right spots and can use it well

If we're looking at trading then I reckon we could look at something like Moloney and our 1st first roud compo pick for Dangerfield & McKay who's been mentioned on another thread as someone we might be looking at and then Sylvia, Petterd and our 2nd first round compo pick for Prestia and an agreement Gold Coast wont nominate Viney in the draft? We get two quality mids with pace who can play inside and out and a versatile McKay who can play a tagging role in the midfield or play off half back allowing Grimes to play in the middle more. All hypotheticals though until seasons end and we know where we sit with draft picks...

As average as Moloney has been this year he's still one of the few midfielders on our list that can actually extract the ball from a stoppage as opposed to simply jumping on it to create another stoppage, I really can't see any reason to drop him. If there was some green midfielder tearing it up in the VFL who's spot he was blocking that would be another story, but can anyone name one? I certainly can't.

Can Jamar actually kick the ball sometimes rather than handball to a player under the pump??

What in the world did you see wrong with Grimes' game yesterday?

Let's not limit ourselves to Dangerfield - both Harley Bennell and Josh Caddy haven't signed, and Harley is an absolute gun!!! We may have an advantage with his brother playing for us...

Provided he's given the chance, Watts will be a gun wingman, floating forward, with an ability to hit the scoreboard. Writing him off already? Jesus Christ. When you consider the time we've given someone like Sylvia...sheesh.

Morton is having a crack. I don't mind mistakes or the odd turnover if you're having a crack. I respect Cale's efforts over the last two games.

Does Jamar realise that playing ruck isn't just about how many taps you win, but what you actually do with them? One incident in particular today - there was a ball up, West (I think) stumbled, Jamar had a "free" tap, tapped it straight to a fcuking Geelong player. Absolutely no excuse for that. I love the Russian, but sorry buddy, you are under-performing. He should be in the top 3 rucks in the league, he's helping the opposition midfield get in to form.

Some of you are reacting as if the opinion "we are not a very good team" is news to you... We were good in areas today (in the clinches, one-on-ones) and poor in others (spread from a stoppage, keeping the ball in the forward 50, skills), we were overawed for much of it but willing and hungry too. The key difference that ruins us, and this is why we struggle even against a young Geelong, is that they are bred to TRUST their team mate to win the footy, beat their bloke, make that shepard. Malthouse touched on this quite a bit, our players get sucked into contests, and don't have a releasing handball, or leave their bloke to go up with Frawley to beat Hawkins and let their opponent get the crumb. They have to respect the role of their team mate and trust them to do their job and be their for them where they can actually be of use; on the defensive side in space, at the foot of the contest, or sheparding to give their player space.

Can someone please, please, please tell Jamar NOT to handball to someone three inches away from him whose got an opponent breathing down their neck?

Morton showed a bit which was a pleasant surprise. Bate struggled against strong opposition but still gave us a bit. Sylvia is short of a gallop. Really think Dunn should start on the ground - gives us a better target than Sellar who is really just a big body creating a contest. A big improvement - we are still building. Jurrah would bring so much creativity to the forward 50 that I cannot wait to see him out there. And hopefully Blease had a good one with Casey. We just lack dash. Bail can give it but I did not see much from him. Breakthrough is coming though.

I only saw the first half and a few bits and pieces of the second half, but the one big thing that stood out to me was that when Geelong had the ball, their players were thinking two or even three possessions ahead. They worked for each other and ran to where the ball will be. When Melbourne had the ball it was a case of get the ball then think what to do, where to go. Geelong are a great team, if you put any Melbourne player in that team they would be instantly better with the strong leaders and culture in that side.

You sure about that champ. Which way does he run, ONLY FORWARDS. When he attempts to bust through the pack and he gets HTB, who points fingers and gets angry at teammates?? Who is the one that comes out to play in the lesser games?? Who is the supposed on-field leader, heart and soul of the club, who doesn't give a yelp for more than half the game?? That's right, one B.Moloney! So buddy, look at his stats, look at his gamestyle, look at his onfield antics and then come talk!

Nup, I'd keep Watts out for 2 or 3 weeks to let things sink in. Bringing him straight back just diminishes the whole Idea of Him lifting his workrate to somewhere he's capable of. Instead of just meandering about for 18 odd kicks. He's Got to start to give everything he's got, or he'll be a wasted talent... if not.

Look it's a tough one. None of last year's leaders deserved captaincy. Our seniors players from last year are PATHETIC. Grimes and Trenners basically got the job because there was literally noone else. But now they are the captains. And they show ZERO on-field leadership. It's a very big problem

The rot seems to have started after the players were surveyed for their opinions by a consultant.

It's not because of last week. It's not even because he is or isn't good. It's because he's the most inspirational guy that we could have for captain.

i love both of them, and think they were great choices for captains, but Trengove is horribly out of form and Grimes still makes some horrendous errors. i have no problem giving them time, as the are only 20ish, but they weren't good today.

ummmm.......no

so sick of watching groups of melbourne players - usually midfielders - all go after the one man, who can then dispose of it by hand to one of the four or five opposition players who are left unattended as a result. they're able to whisk the ball away from contests time after time because of this.. i understand this is part of our stronger attack on the player / contest but they're struggling to get it right a lot of the time

What do you mean when Moloney turns it around. When has he ever offered anything defensively? He is a one way player and even then he is B-Grade at best. His winning a Bluey and Brownlow votes in our wins says more about where we were at then than it does his status as a decent player. In saying that the game was really lost today by our half forwards offering no defensive pressure or chase back through the middle. Sylvia, Bail and Howe in particular played lazy football.

He won't - at least not against a good team. I'm sure he'll pick up the three votes against GWS and GC, but that's not something he should be hanging his hat on.

There was a ball up today where Jamar absolutely dominated West, had eons to tap the ball wherever he wanted to, but chose to put it literally three inches from his feet. It's absolutely moronic to do that, and I cannot for the life of me understand why he continually chooses to take that option. It's as though he doesn't really appreciate what the purpose of winning ruck taps is.

Would 'young Col' still have any trade value later this year? And forget the '2 games into returning' stuff. He plays like he's resuming most of the games he plays. A bit of a Narcissus complex perhaps...too much in love with his own reflection. Simply doesn't do the hard yards regularly enough and impose himself on a game. Carlton might be interested or even the Swans who have a great track record in transforming players. ATM he's average at best and a new start might be a winner both ways depending on the deal.

Can someone please tell Mark Jamar to stop winning the hitout to noone!

It's just that there's no....awareness of playing footy. Turns it over, thinks his designated role is a ball carrier. Quite undisciplined. Sorry, there's been no development at all.

The hit on viney was fair from where I sat. He was on the end of a chain of ever slowing handballs, the last forcing him to stop dead to be able to take it, wojo had momentum and justifiably nailed the stationary target. No case to answer for mine. There would be no way I'd pick watts on todays efforts, cruised through the game, is far too good for this level but the insatiable appetite for the contest wasn't quite there for mine. His stats flattered him. Best game I've ever seen fitzpatrick play, he certainly seems to have improved in quantum leaps, would be a big chance to get a call up. One goal in particular where the ball went over his head, he turned and grabbed it, arched the back to gap his opponent and then took on and beat a second oncoming opponent to run into goal. Had great agility for a big man, and also puts his body into making contests, crucially playing in front more often than not.

Morton was great today. Sylvia and Moloney are not going to get better. How many years can you wait??

Unfair!! He threw himself right into it today.

We were awful today and Geelong could have beaten us by a lot more but never extended themselves; we kicked a couple and they kicked a few more like some sort of training run. I hear Harley saying after the game they had something like 10 players that had less than 50 games under their belt so we can't claim youth. We are a very ordinary side and if anyone really thinks we will win many/any games this year, they are delusional. I have never seen a slower more unaccountable side play AFL football. it must be heartbreaking for some of the players that put in every week to see some of the lame efforts put in by their team mates. Sylvia, Moloney and a few of the others should be ashamed of themselves.

No, no, no - Stef Martin is a step in the wrong direction........

Sending JT to Casey would only increase the attention on him which would result in an increase of pressure on him. He won't be dropped...there are a few that are in line for that well ahead of him.

Couldnt beleive they both started on the bench.

Where to for James Sellar? Big body but just can't get to it. Needs to go to Casey for a while.

If Geelong kicked strait we would have been thumped so hard. The team had a crack but we are still so far off the mark. Thank God for Mitch Clark.

Will be very interesting if there is some footage of the bump. I still can't fathom how that WC player got off from his hit on Sylvia in Pre-season last year.

It's very disappointing that he was sent back to run around on the wing.

Hopefully he wasn't your English teacher.

Conduct a thorough interview with the lad and actually get to know him rather than take him on face value. Who knows? If we did that a couple of years ago, we might have picked up a neat young kid called Dustin Martin.

An Aussie met a fairy who offered to grant him one wish. "I want to live forever," he said. "Sorry," said the fairy, "but I am not allowed to grant that type of wish." "OK,” he said, "Then I want to die when the Melbourne Demons win the AFL premiership." "You crafty bastard!" said the fairy.