I think we should calm the farm a little and enjoy watching our new side as they develop and learn to gel. It may well be that Riv and Spaz have plateaued and CJ gives off Frosty vibes. Them and possibly others may not be with us when we're ready to challenge again but right now we need them. I don't want us to be Richmond's doppelganger for the next 3-4 years.

10 hours ago, layzie said:

Too soon.

Or is it?

Not for here...

I didn’t watch the game but when I looked at the MFC website this morning I noticed something doesn’t add up…

The Melbourne goals add up to 12, not 10. Just wondering if Sharpie really did kick three goals.

39 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I think we should calm the farm a little and enjoy watching our new side as they develop and learn to gel. It may well be that Riv and Spaz have plateaued and CJ gives off Frosty vibes. Them and possibly others may not be with us when we're ready to challenge again but right now we need them. I don't want us to be Richmond's doppelganger for the next 3-4 years.

Agree with this, it’s a new and very raw midfield, pre season everyone is saying we are going to have some bad days along with the good. I thought first quarter aside we tried hard against a polished side on their home deck, just couldn’t pull off the plays that would have led to more goals. The way the game is now one fumble or missed disposal and the ball is slingshot up the other end in seconds, our skills weren’t up to scratch last night, hopefully better back on the G against a side that’s not as strong as Freo next week.

9 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I do think we are very entitled to expect more from Rivers and Sparrow. Once you’re over that 100 game mark you need to be having a lot more impact on games if you want to be a midfielder. I like Riv, but I reckon he’s a half back flanker.

I think this is fair. But I'd just point out that Rivers was only at the centre throw up for ten percent of the game last night. Sparrow was under 40 percent.

I mentioned in an earlier post one of the most disappointing aspects of the game was the lack of overlapping run. We know we're capable of it - we saw it in the praccy matches and against St Kilda. We had Langdon, Jiath, Windsor, two Picketts, Chandler and Sharp, all of whom have decent burst speed. Riv maybe isn't quite as on-top-of-the-ground as them, but he's powerful. I'd love to have seen him being part of more handball chains. I was surprised to see he was our top player for score involvements.

Here is the Stats File post for the game:

I keep coming back to this…

Longmuir’s a good reference point. He’s worn plenty over the last couple of years - labelled dour, questioned around whether he could get the best out of a talented list. Even 2 weeks ago, up 7 goals against Geelong… and still lost. That gets remembered "hard "for the next 6 days...and then quickly forgotten

And yet now, the narrative shifts… and suddenly he’s “meeting expectations.” Which probably says more about how quickly we/the media move the story than anything else.

More broadly though... context matters... It's like some of us forget it.

We’re two games into a new coach, a new system, a different way of playing. It’s going to be uneven. That’s not a flaw... it’s part of the process. Add in younger players, lack of team cohesion under pressure, load management , learning under pressure… it’s rarely going to look polished early. We are trying to judge something that’s still forming.

Humans are not great at sitting in the in-between. We like binary, the brain wants clarity/certainty - a clean read on whether something is working or not. It settles us (and gives us relief because we don't have to get disappointed). But development doesn’t really work like that.

Is the consensus on here that we are developing? If so, then, how we performed last night was appropriate.

10 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Our young guns had no ammunition. Windsor, Langford, Lindsay, Culley, L. Pickett were all very poor today.

And it’s very concerning for the future. People will call it alarmist, but none of these guys are A grade picks from the draft. How strategy has been quantity over quality. You cannot build around B grade talent. You’d hope they can come on. However, all look way off atm. All behind the Freo debutant,

L Pickett isn’t ready - needs to get used to the speed and intensity at Casey. CJ isn’t going to work - hurry up with your recovery Bowzer and come on down AMW

Just now, Trident22 said:

And it’s very concerning for the future. People will call it alarmist, but none of these guys are A grade picks from the draft. How strategy has been quantity over quality. You cannot build around B grade talent. You’d hope they can come on. However, all look way off atm. All behind the Freo debutant,

Post 2020 Jason Taylor’s been pretty average. The guys we’ve picked with first rounders are no where near as good as they need to be to turn the club around, like Petracca Oliver and Brayshaw did. The strategy to trade all our second and third rounders to get another first is looking very ordinary, the cupboard’s pretty bare at Casey. With JT’s reputation, why can’t we pick guys like Joel Freijah and Logan Morris in the second and third rounds? Nail those picks AND your first rounders and that’s how you build a solid list

10 minutes ago, Trident22 said:

And it’s very concerning for the future. People will call it alarmist, but none of these guys are A grade picks from the draft. How strategy has been quantity over quality. You cannot build around B grade talent. You’d hope they can come on. However, all look way off atm. All behind the Freo debutant,

The freemantle debutant came into a side 8 goals up at 1/4 time (plus he had a lot of experience around him that were playing merry hell. Our kids had to work their way back, so be fair !!!. Lets put it into a cricket parlance. It's a lot easier to make runs when you came in at 2/280 !!!

18 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I keep coming back to this…

Longmuir’s a good reference point. He’s worn plenty over the last couple of years - labelled dour, questioned around whether he could get the best out of a talented list. Even 2 weeks ago, up 7 goals against Geelong… and still lost. That gets remembered "hard "for the next 6 days...and then quickly forgotten

And yet now, the narrative shifts… and suddenly he’s “meeting expectations.” Which probably says more about how quickly we/the media move the story than anything else.

More broadly though... context matters... It's like some of us forget it.

We’re two games into a new coach, a new system, a different way of playing. It’s going to be uneven. That’s not a flaw... it’s part of the process. Add in younger players, lack of team cohesion under pressure, load management , learning under pressure… it’s rarely going to look polished early. We are trying to judge something that’s still forming.

Humans are not great at sitting in the in-between. We like binary, the brain wants clarity/certainty - a clean read on whether something is working or not. It settles us (and gives us relief because we don't have to get disappointed). But development doesn’t really work like that.

Is the consensus on here that we are developing? If so, then, how we performed last night was appropriate.

This is good. Thanks, I won't have to post anything about this game for the rest of the week.

5 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

This is good. Thanks, I won't have to post anything about this game for the rest of the week.

Thanks @Willmoy1947 - ill be up in Cairns later this week I'll either hit https://www.flamingostikibar.com.au/ or https://macalisterbrewingcompany.com.au/ to watch the game :) Maybe see you there!

Have some people forgotten the - we are playing a new style, there will be weeks that are exciting along with probable blowouts narrative. We just played Freo in Freo where they were a better team, coming off a loss with crowd and ump support playing us off a 6 day break flying in after a cancelled flight. Of course we lost but I for one am not going to start labelling any of our players as not up to AFL standard based on that. Think I will stay with the “exciting with dips” expectation.

1 hour ago, Ghostwriter said:

I didn’t watch the game but when I looked at the MFC website this morning I noticed something doesn’t add up…

The Melbourne goals add up to 12, not 10. Just wondering if Sharpie really did kick three goals.

Sharp Kicked 2 not 3 goals.

Chandler kicked 1 not 2 goals.

Our backline was a disaster at the start.

It's fair to say the way Freo transitioned from our fwd line right through the middle and delivered the pill at speed didn't help.

Nor did losing our best defender in Disco.

And Bowey is certainly missed.

But other players in Lever and Petty were lost in the first quarter when Freo alrrady kicked about half a century. I dont think Petts even touched the ball in the first quarter.

I'm concerned that Goody in his infinite wisdom playing Petty as a fwd for almost 3 years may have impacted his craft of defending.

Lever ...just don't know. He's only 30. A year younger than Sicilly . Jakes intercept marking used to be stalwart of our defence but now its a different story. To be fair he only played I think about 8 or 9 games last year, so that would have an impact. But losing Disco really exposed us. I did think Lever got better each quarter. That may have been the bourban though .

Once again the wrong day to try and give it up.

Did we err in delisting May? He wasn't that bad. His ground skills had deteriorated but he was still holding marks and a big strong lad to keep opponents in check.

Maybe there were issues around him I'm not Privy to, that sealed his fate.

But we need to do something. What exactly, I don't know. Can J.C. play as a defender?

We seemed to be back in the game for a brief moment when Petts made a shocking handball that turned it over and caused a goal for Freo and then they went bang again.

Petty has made a few of those hanball clangers. Maybe he should be given instructions to slways sink the slipper when he's within 25m of the big sticks.

Anyway it wasn't pretty. Nor was voss making crybaby gestures referencing the time poor Petty was emotional about his mother. What a classy bloke is that voss. Not.

Neither was Jvrs game after a premature celebration dance by myself last week. I hope it wasn't.

Clearly the guys a talented forward but consistent scoring is the important hallmark over occasional big bags.

Kp was quiet the first half. By his standards.

I thought Chandlers first half was very good. And Max Gawn's entire game was above and beyond. Given he played almost the entire game last week with a few minutes respite and yesterday was double teamed.

Max is a supreme athelete who runs on 10 percent stamina and probably 90 via heart.

Not a fan of Sparrow. I don't feel he ever gets enough of the ball but credit to his tackling efforts even if the umps hardly ever acknowledged all of ours.

Langers was good as too was the Kolt who should wear number 45.

So a few positives and we didn't throw in the towel either.

It's early days so hard to gauge what yesterday means in the big picture.

Never easy flying across the continent after a six day break. I think that short break in the beginning of the season has more impact.

Maybe not. Perhaps I'm just looking for excuses being the Panglossian that I am.

Ain't all Mfc supporters?

So we reset and smash the blues next week.

19 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I keep coming back to this…

Longmuir’s a good reference point. He’s worn plenty over the last couple of years - labelled dour, questioned around whether he could get the best out of a talented list. Even 2 weeks ago, up 7 goals against Geelong… and still lost. That gets remembered "hard "for the next 6 days...and then quickly forgotten

And yet now, the narrative shifts… and suddenly he’s “meeting expectations.” Which probably says more about how quickly we/the media move the story than anything else.

More broadly though... context matters... It's like some of us forget it.

We’re two games into a new coach, a new system, a different way of playing. It’s going to be uneven. That’s not a flaw... it’s part of the process. Add in younger players, lack of team cohesion under pressure, load management , learning under pressure… it’s rarely going to look polished early. We are trying to judge something that’s still forming.

Humans are not great at sitting in the in-between. We like binary, the brain wants clarity/certainty - a clean read on whether something is working or not. It settles us (and gives us relief because we don't have to get disappointed). But development doesn’t really work like that.

Is the consensus on here that we are developing? If so, then, how we performed last night was appropriate.

Great post. We're trying to judge a banana while it's still mostly green.

It's counter intuitive but yes last night was appropriate and we'll probably need those results along the journey. As long as we learn from them.

10 hours ago, Go Lordie said:

Don't start with that mindless rubbish. How were you performing in the second week of your

Was having a laugh bud

11 minutes ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Our backline was a disaster at the start.

It's fair to say the way Freo transitioned from our fwd line right through the middle and delivered the pill at speed didn't help.

Nor did losing our best defender in Disco.

And Bowey is certainly missed.

But other players in Lever and Petty were lost in the first quarter when Freo alrrady kicked about half a century. I dont think Petts even touched the ball in the first quarter.

I'm concerned that Goody in his infinite wisdom playing Petty as a fwd for almost 3 years may have impacted his craft of defending.

Lever ...just don't know. He's only 30. A year younger than Sicilly . Jakes intercept marking used to be stalwart of our defence but now its a different story. To be fair he only played I think about 8 or 9 games last year, so that would have an impact. But losing Disco really exposed us. I did think Lever got better each quarter. That may have been the bourban though .

Once again the wrong day to try and give it up.

Did we err in delisting May? He wasn't that bad. His ground skills had deteriorated but he was still holding marks and a big strong lad to keep opponents in check.

Maybe there were issues around him I'm not Privy to, that sealed his fate.

But we need to do something. What exactly, I don't know. Can J.C. play as a defender?

We seemed to be back in the game for a brief moment when Petts made a shocking handball that turned it over and caused a goal for Freo and then they went bang again.

Petty has made a few of those hanball clangers. Maybe he should be given instructions to slways sink the slipper when he's within 25m of the big sticks.

Anyway it wasn't pretty. Nor was voss making crybaby gestures referencing the time poor Petty was emotional about his mother. What a classy bloke is that voss. Not.

Neither was Jvrs game after a premature celebration dance by myself last week. I hope it wasn't.

Clearly the guys a talented forward but consistent scoring is the important hallmark over occasional big bags.

Kp was quiet the first half. By his standards.

I thought Chandlers first half was very good. And Max Gawn's entire game was above and beyond. Given he played almost the entire game last week with a few minutes respite and yesterday was double teamed.

Max is a supreme athelete who runs on 10 percent stamina and probably 90 via heart.

Not a fan of Sparrow. I don't feel he ever gets enough of the ball but credit to his tackling efforts even if the umps hardly ever acknowledged all of ours.

Langers was good as too was the Kolt who should wear number 45.

So a few positives and we didn't throw in the towel either.

It's early days so hard to gauge what yesterday means in the big picture.

Never easy flying across the continent after a six day break. I think that short break in the beginning of the season has more impact.

Maybe not. Perhaps I'm just looking for excuses being the Panglossian that I am.

Ain't all Mfc supporters?

So we reset and smash the blues next week.

11 minutes ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Our backline was a disaster at the start.

It's fair to say the way Freo transitioned from our fwd line right through the middle and delivered the pill at speed didn't help.

Nor did losing our best defender in Disco.

And Bowey is certainly missed.

But other players in Lever and Petty were lost in the first quarter when Freo alrrady kicked about half a century. I dont think Petts even touched the ball in the first quarter.

I'm concerned that Goody in his infinite wisdom playing Petty as a fwd for almost 3 years may have impacted his craft of defending.

Lever ...just don't know. He's only 30. A year younger than Sicilly . Jakes intercept marking used to be stalwart of our defence but now its a different story. To be fair he only played I think about 8 or 9 games last year, so that would have an impact. But losing Disco really exposed us. I did think Lever got better each quarter. That may have been the bourban though .

Once again the wrong day to try and give it up.

Did we err in delisting May? He wasn't that bad. His ground skills had deteriorated but he was still holding marks and a big strong lad to keep opponents in check.

Maybe there were issues around him I'm not Privy to, that sealed his fate.

But we need to do something. What exactly, I don't know. Can J.C. play as a defender?

We seemed to be back in the game for a brief moment when Petts made a shocking handball that turned it over and caused a goal for Freo and then they went bang again.

Petty has made a few of those hanball clangers. Maybe he should be given instructions to slways sink the slipper when he's within 25m of the big sticks.

Anyway it wasn't pretty. Nor was voss making crybaby gestures referencing the time poor Petty was emotional about his mother. What a classy bloke is that voss. Not.

Neither was Jvrs game after a premature celebration dance by myself last week. I hope it wasn't.

Clearly the guys a talented forward but consistent scoring is the important hallmark over occasional big bags.

Kp was quiet the first half. By his standards.

I thought Chandlers first half was very good. And Max Gawn's entire game was above and beyond. Given he played almost the entire game last week with a few minutes respite and yesterday was double teamed.

Max is a supreme athelete who runs on 10 percent stamina and probably 90 via heart.

Not a fan of Sparrow. I don't feel he ever gets enough of the ball but credit to his tackling efforts even if the umps hardly ever acknowledged all of ours.

Langers was good as too was the Kolt who should wear number 45.

So a few positives and we didn't throw in the towel either.

It's early days so hard to gauge what yesterday means in the big picture.

Never easy flying across the continent after a six day break. I think that short break in the beginning of the season has more impact.

Maybe not. Perhaps I'm just looking for excuses being the Panglossian that I am.

Ain't all Mfc supporters?

So we reset and smash the blues next week.

May was forced to retire which is justified by he’s behaviours enough said, instrumental in our premiership but after that….you don’t need to be a rocket scientist with departures over the last 2 seasons.

Was always going to be that kind of season.

Enjoy the ride, if not…don’t get on.

2 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

May was forced to retire which is justified by he’s behaviours enough said, instrumental in our premiership but after that….you don’t need to be a rocket scientist with departures over the last 2 seasons.

Fair call. It's just I feel we missed someone like him yesterday. I dont think I'm qualified in the slightest to judge the club which I kind of did, but given Petty hasn't played as a defender for eons and Lever's run of injuries and game time last year, maybe we fixed our forward line only to find our backline wanting.

But plenty of time for those two to turn things around. And with their best , along with an improving Turner, all could be very well.

The Panglossian strikes again.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Previously known as LITD.

27 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Sharp Kicked 2 not 3 goals.

Chandler kicked 1 not 2 goals.

The AFL Live app also lists the goals incorrectly…

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I think this is fair. But I'd just point out that Rivers was only at the centre throw up for ten percent of the game last night. Sparrow was under 40 percent.

I mentioned in an earlier post one of the most disappointing aspects of the game was the lack of overlapping run. We know we're capable of it - we saw it in the praccy matches and against St Kilda. We had Langdon, Jiath, Windsor, two Picketts, Chandler and Sharp, all of whom have decent burst speed. Riv maybe isn't quite as on-top-of-the-ground as them, but he's powerful. I'd love to have seen him being part of more handball chains. I was surprised to see he was our top player for score involvements.

I didn’t realise Riv had such low centre square attendance. Possibly we decided we needed more help behind the ball once Disco went down.

It’s interesting what you said about overlap run. It was driving me nuts watching on, and I think it directly played into how poor our delivery was going forward. I wonder if King was a bit surprised that we seemed to regress, and what he’ll try and do to get the boys to keep taking the game on, or if it was more structural to how Freo set up. It’s always hard to see that stuff on the TV.

12 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

yeah but nah

he would have pointed, and stropped, and blamed inexperienced teammates for his own ineptitude, and given away free kicks, and shown little leadership when it mattered - as per every poor loss for the last couple of years

Exactly the reason we traded the other 2 away also. No leadership and poor culture. Anyone that’s piling onto the coach and list after 2 games really has NFI when it comes to football. The kids need time in a good environment

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I keep coming back to this…

Longmuir’s a good reference point. He’s worn plenty over the last couple of years - labelled dour, questioned around whether he could get the best out of a talented list. Even 2 weeks ago, up 7 goals against Geelong… and still lost. That gets remembered "hard "for the next 6 days...and then quickly forgotten

And yet now, the narrative shifts… and suddenly he’s “meeting expectations.” Which probably says more about how quickly we/the media move the story than anything else.

More broadly though... context matters... It's like some of us forget it.

We’re two games into a new coach, a new system, a different way of playing. It’s going to be uneven. That’s not a flaw... it’s part of the process. Add in younger players, lack of team cohesion under pressure, load management , learning under pressure… it’s rarely going to look polished early. We are trying to judge something that’s still forming.

Humans are not great at sitting in the in-between. We like binary, the brain wants clarity/certainty - a clean read on whether something is working or not. It settles us (and gives us relief because we don't have to get disappointed). But development doesn’t really work like that.

Is the consensus on here that we are developing? If so, then, how we performed last night was appropriate.

Excellent point. Reminds me of the fragility of human psychology in the investment space.

Just look at the newly released (highly anticipated” video game “Crimson Desert” and the developer Pearl Abyss, despite still scoring a pretty good average score of 77, their stock price literally plummeted a good 15% just because it wasn’t a 90+. 77 is still a damn good score, but just because it didn’t meet sky high expectations, investors just panicked and sold, not regarding the fact Pearl Abyss could update the game over time to further improve the game when it launched.

There is no way to know how things will play out. Bonds, stocks, property, gold, etc will ALL have their time in the sun.

What it does mean however, is markets are typically influenced by human emotion. Even fund asset managers make mistakes on the daily. Investment markets are very predictive, NOT usually indicative.

You also have to judge why an asset is down. Is it down because of catastrophic errors by management? A long term change in the business environment, fraud of some sort or any other illegal activity? If so, I will personally just eat the loss and sell.

Point being? Looking at last night’s result in its entirety and within context, panicking after yesterday’s result is just lunacy. Also, a massive factor in the loss is we were traveling off a 6 day break playing in back to back matches where heat was over 30 degrees.

We owe Carlton big time, so I’m hoping win number 2 comes next week. I’m confident we will bounce back.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by VNightCityLegend