10 hours ago, Chook said:

I'm not comparing us to other sides. I'm comparing us to ourselves c.2021

We're miles off.

Comparison is the thief of joy

11 hours ago, Chook said:

I'm not comparing us to other sides. I'm comparing us to ourselves c.2021

We're miles off.

My god.. Blind Freddy could tell you our list is no where near the 2021 list.

1 hour ago, Doug Reemer said:

My god.. Blind Freddy could tell you our list is no where near the 2021 list.

Exactly, hence us being miles off. Saying we're not as bad as you might think is all well and good. I'd rather look at where we want to be and talk about how we get there than look at where we don't want to be and talk about how we're "not quite as bad as all that."

One lens gives you a goal to aspire to and the other breeds mediocrity.

Honestly, who cares if we're the 8th best side or the 13th or the 17th? The reality is that we are miles off genuinely contending for a premiership, which surely is the aim.

There is a fair argument that our best player, best forward and best defender are all aged 33. Hence we not only need to plug the current gaps in our list, we also need to find replacements for these three players before we can contend.

Sure we should aspire to be more competitive on a weekly basis than we have for much of this year, but the gap between our best and worst football (from week to week, and within games) is way too big at the moment.

There is only one stat that matters, its the one when the games final siren blows.

That stat places us 13th on the ladder with 6 wins and a low percentage.

The rest is for the stat devotees!

5 hours ago, Demons11 said:

I think the fact we have implemented a new game plan which has taken some time is starting to pay dividends and will help us long term. I think if we end up with 10 wins then I’ll take the season as a pass. A big off season with the list

Considering our draw, no.

On any given day we can be competitive but we lack the killer skills - the ability to score heavily when on top and the ability to score clutch goals when needed.

Until these return, we will remain so-so and no more.

1 hour ago, tiers said:

On any given day we can be competitive but we lack the killer skills - the ability to score heavily when on top and the ability to score clutch goals when needed.

Until these return, we will remain so-so and no more.

I'd also add into that, the inability to regularly and reliably defend on turn-over / counter-attack, particularly against quick ball movement via the centre corridor.

3 hours ago, Doug Reemer said:

My god.. Blind Freddy could tell you our list is no where near the 2021 list.

And why has that been allowed to happen?

Why have we let very good players go and replaced with Casey Regulars?

Why do A Grade AFL Players not want to join this Club?

For reasons I would like to know and i wish more Members would be asking the same Questions

Why has our list been allowed to Plateau since 2021…??

This year has been a major disappointment, through the bad losses we have also seen a Couple of Superb Performances, so the Club is capable of Beating the Best.

Fitness and Attitudes are just not high enough, along with very poor list management

You include Action Jackson and Bradshaw we would be right up there.

This thread is so perfect.

Someone tries to present some slightly positive concrete data which shows we’re not that far off it and even makes sure to include some nuance and they’re immediately shouted down.

1 minute ago, The Cult of Disco Turner said:

This thread is so perfect.

Someone tries to present some slightly positive concrete data which shows we’re not that far off it and even makes sure to include some nuance and they’re immediately shouted down.

Concrete Data ???

22 minutes ago, bluey said:

You include Action Jackson and Bradshaw we would be right up there.

Very good points bluey. Particularly Brayshaw!

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Concrete Data ???

Yeah I mean even if the graph looks simple I would say that measuring how we’ve statistically performed against different teams, and, in turn, comparing that against how other teams have statistically performed against each other represents concrete data.

5 minutes ago, The Cult of Disco Turner said:

This thread is so perfect.

Someone tries to present some slightly positive concrete data which shows we’re not that far off it and even makes sure to include some nuance and they’re immediately shouted down.

We have won 6 games and lost 11. 13th on the ladder

We are nowhere near where we should be, i don’t care what stats can be regurgitated, how often have we won all the stats, but not the game, under the present Football Department.

The only Concrete Data i take any notice of is what Players we have lost compared to what we have traded in since 21….

Hey look guys - we have played well against the top 8

Umm I think you'll find we have won 6 games for the year so shuddup

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We have won 6 games and lost 11. 13th on the ladder

We are nowhere near where we should be, i don’t care what stats can be regurgitated, how often have we won all the stats, but not the game, under the present Football Department.

The only Concrete Data i take any notice of is what Players we have lost compared to what we have traded in since 21….

I certainly don’t disagree that we aren’t where we should be—and what the posted graph says to me is that we simply play to the level of our opponents rather than playing to a consistently high level, which is very frustrating.

But I feel like it’s kind of unfair to ignore any positives about where we are at/might be going, or to ignore some of the nuance and complexities of the players we’ve lost/gained.

Nothing is ever quite what it seems with figures eh...

Invoking the exquisite thinking mind of the late Dave Allen .. I present...

So 30% are caused by drinking. Therefore 70% aren't.. So drink more and save lives !!

Now obviously this is a fallacy. But it shows how much context is needed to provide ANY relevance.

I know the O.P. sought to shine some sun on our predicament but I struggle to see much beyond the darkish clouds at present.

The ladder suggests we aren't much chop. I agree.

I reckon we're exactly as bad as we seem. But that's not 100% bad

Let's see where at come seasons end.

14 hours ago, BAMF said:

All that chart shows is that we have had some good games against some teams in the top 8.

Good victories over Brisbane and Freo.

Very close losses against Collingwood and Giants which we should have won.

That's it really. Even if we had won those games we would still be outside the eight.

The real question from here is: can this talented list turn it around next season.

Well we did get beaten by both North and Essendon .....

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Nothing is ever quite what it seems with figures eh...

Invoking the exquisite thinking mind of the late Dave Allen .. I present...

So 30% are caused by drinking. Therefore 70% aren't.. So drink more and save lives !!

Now obviously this is a fallacy. But it shows how much context is needed to provide ANY relevance.

I know the O.P. sought to shine some sun on our predicament but I struggle to see much beyond the darkish clouds at present.

The ladder suggests we aren't much chop. I agree.

I reckon we're exactly as bad as we seem. But that's not 100% bad

Let's see where at come seasons end.

Better still, drive on the footpath, its much safer

7 minutes ago, The Cult of Disco Turner said:

I certainly don’t disagree that we aren’t where we should be—and what the posted graph says to me is that we simply play to the level of our opponents rather than playing to a consistently high level, which is very frustrating.

But I feel like it’s kind of unfair to ignore any positives about where we are at/might be going, or to ignore some of the nuance and complexities of the players we’ve lost/gained.

Not having a go at you personally Cult, but there are very few Positives, considering what we achieved in ‘21.

Yes there are personal achievements and certain young players who have been fantastic, but on a Club level, our Football Department has dropped its bundle.

Do you honestly think The Filth, Jeeelong or Hawthorn would be talking positively if they were in our position?

29 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Concrete Data ???

Yep ..there is ..we are getting better..the players are adapting to the game plan & as they do ..everyone & everything improves. Far from a finished product but the players were up & about on Sunday .. connected with each other & the coach. You’ve gone so far down the rabbit hole of negativity that you refuse to acknowledge any positives. Maybe stay of this topic… plenty of other topics you can vent your nonsense..

31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We have won 6 games and lost 11. 13th on the ladder

We are nowhere near where we should be, i don’t care what stats can be regurgitated, how often have we won all the stats, but not the game, under the present Football Department.

The only Concrete Data i take any notice of is what Players we have lost compared to what we have traded in since 21….

Exactly. You can roll a terd in glitter, and it’s still a terd.

Edited July 15Jul 15 by Ethan Tremblay

1 hour ago, bluey said:

You include Action Jackson and Bradshaw we would be right up there.

Throw in Allan La Fontaine down forward and Barassi as coach for good measure.

38 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

Yep ..there is ..we are getting better..the players are adapting to the game plan & as they do ..everyone & everything improves. Far from a finished product but the players were up & about on Sunday .. connected with each other & the coach. You’ve gone so far down the rabbit hole of negativity that you refuse to acknowledge any positives. Maybe stay of this topic… plenty of other topics you can vent your nonsense..

Really..

Someone posited that the evidence is Concrete. You get what that infers.... solid, irrefutable etc.

I simply question that and you get your knickers in a knot. What a joke.

All we did was beat North. Yep better than losing and some aspects looked better. It was an undermanned Roos. Let's not get too carried away.

You don't get to cancel those that question things.

Hardly venting. You're overplaying your hand.

I have acknowledged positives. Not in this thread granted.

Again... are we as bad as suggested ?.. Logic says we have to be exactly as bad as we are and where ladder puts us. If we win more games....that might change. Let's see where the season finishes ..yes ?