1 minute ago, PaulRB said:

You’re blaming the coach for our players not being focused on kicking the red football between the big posts..?

You’re hilarious!

I am saying they are not prepared

Not funny at all. After 4 years the problem still remains

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am saying they are not prepared

Not funny at all. After 4 years the problem still remains

So Goody should gather the players together and hum together to get everyone focused on kicking ball through goals!

8 goals in a row with about zero tackles and zero pressure applied during that period.

For the life of me can't work out how we haven't tried ANYTHING different by round 17. We had one week of Salem in the middle and nothing since. We STILL HAVEN'T seen Rivers in there. Same old [censored] with Petracca Oliver and Viney thinking it's 2021.

No Trac up forward, no Langford in the middle.

Just the same thing every week believing it might change.

Unbelievable

We’ve reached the cliff for this group

That’s not to say that these players can’t contribute meaningfully to our next successful era, but as far as this core goes they unfortunately won’t be the ones to drive our next Premiership

I really hoped that this wouldn’t be the case - that there was still enough good footy left in Max, Viney, May, Lever, Salem, Langdon, Trac, Clarry, Fritsch etc - but unfortunately I can’t see any of these players improving in any meaningful sense from next year onwards

That doesn’t mean they’re bad players, even in 2025 - all have contributed this year and at times been a key factor in our wins

But none (save Max) can be relied on for consistent performance anymore - these match winning displays are inconsistent and unfortunately their weaknesses, which for a long time were overcome, are becoming more and more apparent, and I don’t think “just another preseason” or “just getting healthy” is going to change that

So the question becomes who do we keep to provide leadership for our next generation? Who can be moved into different roles? Who do we have to move on to set up our next Premiership?

I really hope the club is prepared to answer these questions as seasons end, or 2026 is going to be much the same

Edited July 6Jul 6 by demoncat

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

That's why I said no apparent reason to the outside lookers. TMac was playing very consistent and mature footy.

Ok so you agree there’s no apparent reason to those on the outside looking in, right? Why, then, do you and others (who are on the outside looking in) continuously criticise or even just question the omission of Tmac? What’s the point of doing this? Do you think if you keep repeating the question there’s a chance you might discover the reason on Demonland?

Anyone besides me think Max was best on or close today?

And has been last four weeks.

43 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

So Goody should gather the players together and hum together to get everyone focused on kicking ball through goals!

No Goody ain’t the man to do it

He needs to bring in the right people. We have had the same messages for too long.

What other Club has had the same fundamental problem for so long??

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

No reason why you couldn't bring in T-Mac and move Turner for a trial run forward for the remainder of the season. Won't happen under Goodwin though.

Just love Demonland. This is the forum where posters are constantly bagging Goodwin (even though all of these decisions are made by a team of people not just Goodwin, but heh ..) for yo-yoing JVT in/out of the team and in/out of ruck/forward - yet when we see one of our younger players developing in front of our eyes to be one of the best key defenders in the AFL, some here want him thrown up the other end of the ground. Because.

Also the forum where "just play the kids" and "the season is shot, we should concentrate on development" means bringing in one of our oldest players in probably his last year.

If the argument was throw Turner forward (but see above) to bring in Adams, though questionable it would at least be coherent. But Demonland ...

7 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

I was all for giving Jeffo the rest of the season to develop in the seniors but wowza, he is nowhere near ready. His intent and desire is questionable at best and he's constantly being pushed off the ball by defenders.

His confidence looked shot at the end of the game.

He really needs to hit the gym.... No body strength at all.

10 hours ago, VNightCityLegend said:

Really sick of losing. This is a results industry and yeah, we may not be as experienced as yesteryears and carry a lot of young talent, but no one can say we didn’t have chances to potentially play finals. The same mistakes and lack of ability to close out matches has been costly.

This game went begging, as did Collingwood, GWS, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Port Adelaide . We really should be at 9-10 wins and giving our ourselves a serious chance with North, St Kilda, Carlton and West Coast to come.

Such a frustrating nearly season as simply playing finals would propel and give experience to the likes of Langford and Lindsay into a greater sphere in 2026.

Yeah I understand. Its the honourable losses thing i hate.

To be completely honest, i've lost all interest in the club this year. Im just half expecting these kind of losses now with the inaccuracy and the same usual suspects on high money dishing up the same sub par performances each and every week.

Another year wasted and no finals appearance/wins in September. We dont stand for anything as a club and yet still no closer to knowing what's happening with our home base.

I'll continue to check results here and there watch it when I can but the emotional attachment of my team losing is not there anymore. I just shrug the shoulders and move on.

Taking my 5 year old to his first AFL game next week and will make sure he has the greatest experience he can. Gotta somehow keep the spirits up for the next generation of supporters coming through.

10 hours ago, Pirlo said:

So the cliff is almost here. That was a reasonable performance but there was never a moment where we looked like we could win. They held us at arm's length from the minute we kicked our 5th goal in that run. Just a matter now of how quickly and effectively we can rebuild the list. We're going to be bottom 6 for the second season in a row, so rebuilding on the run clearly hasn't happened. Need to go very hard at trading assets like Oliver, Salem, Lever, Fritsch and hope that Gawn, May, Viney have enough decent footy in them to stop us from falling into a 2007-09 style hole while the kids develop. Could also trade Petracca, but I really don't want to see a guy with actual elite standards go when we have so many who half-[censored] it.

Elite standards, but can't tackle, handball or kick !!

9 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

The first block came against:

8th

16th

7th

4th

13th

The second block has come against

15th

1st

11th

7th

3rd

If we had gone 2-3 in both those blocks we'd be equal 6th on the ladder.

The North, Essendon, Saints and Port games have cost us our season.

You don’t don’t want to be playing finals on the back of beating teams predominantly outside the 8.

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Jesus H Christ.

TMac was a decent 3rd defender, nothing more.

And Goodwin doesn't have to decide he isn't the future, he isn't the future. End of.

I’m the last person to talk stats but there was something on socials that he was leading or in the top couple for every stat for defenders in the competition before being dropped.

7 hours ago, PaulRB said:

You’re blaming the coach for our players not being focused on kicking the red football between the big posts..?

You’re hilarious!

Who then ???

Take as long as you like ..

Just whose [censored] job is it to have the team ready, focused and primed for a game ??

Take as long as you like...really. Put that thinking cap on. Not too tight.

Tic toc... tic tic..

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

You don’t don’t want to be playing finals on the back of beating teams predominantly outside the 8.

Perhaps but that’s how you can get there. Beat the teams 9-18th and the top 8 when you can. We have lost to some very low ranked sides. Frustrating

Just now, 640MD said:

Perhaps but that’s how you can get there. Beat the teams 9-18th and the top 8 when you can. We have lost to some very low ranked sides. Frustrating

You might get there, but you're the entre .

7 hours ago, Deez21 said:

8 goals in a row with about zero tackles and zero pressure applied during that period.

For the life of me can't work out how we haven't tried ANYTHING different by round 17. We had one week of Salem in the middle and nothing since. We STILL HAVEN'T seen Rivers in there. Same old [censored] with Petracca Oliver and Viney thinking it's 2021.

No Trac up forward, no Langford in the middle.

Just the same thing every week believing it might change.

Unbelievable

Petracca did play predominantly forward.

Oliver, Petracca and Viney didn’t attend a single centre bounce together.

What game were you watching?

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

Jefferson looks and plays like a schoolboy! Give him next pre season to bulk up more, but if he can’t compete he won’t make it!

I hope he does, but doesn’t look even close on what I’ve seen in his few AFL games.

Good to see Roo play much better today!!

6 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

He really needs to hit the gym.... No body strength at all.

That's not his problem it's the hunger for the contest that's his problem and will hold him back.

Can we send Trac to Red Bull HQ in Switzerland and get a biomechanic to do the full tests and analysis on his goal kicking routine. Put him in one those special cat suits that track his every movement. It may be something as a simple body alignment when kicking for goal.

8 hours ago, demoncat said:

We’ve reached the cliff for this group

That’s not to say that these players can’t contribute meaningfully to our next successful era, but as far as this core goes they unfortunately won’t be the ones to drive our next Premiership

I really hoped that this wouldn’t be the case - that there was still enough good footy left in Max, Viney, May, Lever, Salem, Langdon, Trac, Clarry, Fritsch etc - but unfortunately I can’t see any of these players improving in any meaningful sense from next year onwards

That doesn’t mean they’re bad players, even in 2025 - all have contributed this year and at times been a key factor in our wins

But none (save Max) can be relied on for consistent performance anymore - these match winning displays are inconsistent and unfortunately their weaknesses, which for a long time were overcome, are becoming more and more apparent, and I don’t think “just another preseason” or “just getting healthy” is going to change that

So the question becomes who do we keep to provide leadership for our next generation? Who can be moved into different roles? Who do we have to move on to set up our next Premiership?

I really hope the club is prepared to answer these questions as seasons end, or 2026 is going to be much the same

We have indeed. It's very sad.

And you're right - a few of them can still play good or very good footy. But not every week.

In fact, I agree with pretty much everything you've said (I'd differ with you slightly and suggest a couple from that list are looking more like liabilities than gently fading stars) but the reason I'm responding is that in the press conference Goodwin seemed to suggest, once again, that he had total faith in this group. He talked about being "in a hurry" to settle the big change in the way we play and then responded to a question about Max and Petracca not having a chance at a second Flag with Melbourne by essentially saying "there's still plenty of time".

I know a lot of people will say "what else would he say?" I'm a bit of a weirdo, though, in that I think you can always take something from a press conference. And this week I realised - Oh, Goodwin still believes what he said earlier in the season: that you can turn situations like this around and then you're off and away. Rather than falling off a cliff, he thinks we're reaching the apex of a very difficult climb and are about to go "weeeee!" down the other side.

So when you said you hope the club is prepared to answer the question of who do we keep, who do we ask to be more adaptable and who do we release, I wonder if we are. If we're sticking with Goodwin, we're sticking with his plan. And part of his plan is absolute belief in a group of players who helped him get the ultimate success.

I can see us making one major change... possibly instigated by a player. Maybe two if it just blows up again like last year. But I can't see us doing the big list shift we obviously need. And the worst part is, if we DID bite the bullet, we'd be getting very little back, picks wise, in a draft widely considered somewhere between mediocre and poor.

I don't like the position we're in. And I think we're in that position because we acted too, slowly. Not on sacking the coach after the second finals failure as some have suggested (although I think the constant refrain that we were a kick away from a second flag or that we lost two finals by a combined total of such and such, or that it was completely down to injuries is complete nonsense). But on demanding that the coach make changes - to the way we play and to the list.

Now the coach is saying "we're in a hurry". Yeah, everyone who procrastinates or kicks unpleasant jobs down the road end up needing to hurry eventually.

9 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

.....

Rather than falling off a cliff, he thinks we're reaching the apex of a very difficult climb and are about to go "weeeee!" down the other side

...

TTD ... a very good read.

Apology for grabbing this one paragraph but it does to me highlight the essence of our predicament.

It resonates sorrowfully with the notion of the dumblucked gambler who forever needs that 'one more rool-of-the-dice' .. the winner is just around the corner, the next horse will be that big winner. Just out of arms reach chasing shadows. If only !! This is Melbourne, just hoping it finally clicks into place and all will be right, just another game or two... we'll get it right NEXT season you'll see.

Ahhh Simon from La Mancha ...

Last week we planned for Viney to play forward. Lasted one quarter before we gave up.

This week we didn’t even bother. We gave Lindsay 2 centre bounces and otherwise only used Trac, Clarry, Viney and Koz.

It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Goody and the FD believe that putting faith in the same core players is the way forward, and that with time our problems will be fixed - eg I expect to see Petty and Spargo back this week, if fit.

The “problem”, perversely, is that we outperformed against anyone’s expectation. Who seriously thought the margin would be 13? Or that we’d lead by 28 at any stage?

The worst thing we can do between now and Round 1 next year is to assume that with time, our forward half game will resolve itself.

Where was our midfield yesterday? It was painful to watch the Crows waltzing out of the centre. Trac was in full panic mode (beast mode been missing for a while).

We desperately need a proven forward. I dont care who, BBB made a huge difference to us in retrospect.

That said we must persist with JVR who showed promise, then we made him ruck draining the soul out of him so he got no momentum. Must play every game now. He is our best kick at goal.

As for Jeffo, poor second efforts but equally dropping him now would be a wasted opportunity. He is physically like BBB. He will cause us to pull out our hair but there is absolutely no downside to rolling the dice for the balance of the season. (get BBB or anyone to help him)

Have I mentioned kicking practice? Our first quarter was appalling.

11 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

Even Petracca's scoreboard impact has dried up in the past month.

I know Petracca hasn’t been in great form however he is coming back from a major injury and it will probs take him a season and a couple of off seasons to get back into his rhythm.

I have confidence and faith in him that he will be a lot better next season and am not going to be too hard on him this season.

You see it a bit when players come back from major injuries that it takes them a while to get back into it.

I also think that Clary and Viney could be better next season if we have a new coach with a new voice and direction/game plan. A change can do wonders for the playing group.

Edited July 6Jul 6 by DemonOX

The T Mac discussion is interesting. Might have to be reminded, but it was documented in the preseason T Mac was always going to be behind May and Lever, T Mac only came into the R1 team cause of a late change (May) from memory.

He played some great footy until he was dropped after Lions game where it wasn’t one of his best. Gardiner kicked 4 for the Lions that day, maybe T Mac was responsible for letting that happen.