40 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

If he is tiring he's not showing huge signs of tiring IMO. He did shirks contests a few times, particularly against Cameron who he could have halved with his aerial prowess. His role model is Trac who regularly shirks going back with the flight.

I made this point very early in this season and was told the game was changing and that going back with the flight and potentially getting injured is less of a priority these days. I take that point and admit my viewpoint was dated.

I think that's the way the game is going. Players are regularly dropping out of aerial contests to protect themselves.

It is what it is. The players are human after all and have lives to think about after footy. Trac suffered a near death experience and there is an article in the press every couple of months about former players with concussion symptoms and likely CTE, which btw is very likely contributing to suicide amongst former AFL players.

The 2025 game is a different beast. It's an aerobic game that impacts decision making and the difference between being top of the ladder or outside of the 8 is executing under fatigue and under pressure.

I have seen multiple players from multiple teams do this now. Even recalled Pendles in the last shirking going back with the flight. I think it was Kolt's uncontested mark directly in front 40 out in the 4th when the game was on the line.

Everybody would have seen what happened to Trac and now think twice about it.

---

Predictably, the press are all on how Collingwood won the moments that matter blah blah blah. for a 1 point game, there is nothing but luck that seperates both teams. You could argue that up to 1-2 goals as well but its not more evident than a 1 point game.

Ill give credit to Collingwood, they looked far more composed and measured with the ball in the last 5 minutes. Perhaps because we failed to apply any sort of pressure on them.

I wont argue the Umpire reason - we all know it had a significant impact on the game.

For what we could control though, we missed some sitters (Melksham, Fritta, Petty come to mind). You just cannot give a team like Collingwood any sort leg-up. They are skillful and full of confidence. End of the day luck favored them, they were more accurate, had the roll of the green with the umps.

Great effort yesterday. We just made a few crucial errors and e need to improve our accuracy.

The Pies have only lost two games on expected score this year and we 'won' by 9. (I know we hate this stat.)

Our best players are all in good form (Gawn, Petracca, Picket, Oliver and May) and our youth is quality. Fristch coming back into form has been important.

I think we can still make a run at it but there is obviously not much margin for error.

4 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

JVR can cover the ruck, Jeffo can’t. It’s pretty simple.

We we are crying out for a KPF. His contribution in that role yesterday was zero. 1 Goal from him and we win. He has not played in a winning game this year so his contribution as a forward and back up ruckman has produced zero wins. Johnson's contribution as back up ruckman has been as good and his efforts as a forward average however he looks keen and gives 100% every game. I would rather him as a team mate than JVR.

I have woken up feeling very sad and sorry for myself.

At least we havent lost to Collingwood over the last few years having more scoring shots, more inside fifties, more contested ball, less uncontested marks, less free kicks and less luck. oh wait.

The stkilda loss rankles more imho

We would be 6-7 and despite the heartbreak of the 1 point loss to the Top team our season would still be alive and with some optimism

27 minutes ago, old dee said:

So it is ok for jvr to take 13 marks against a Preston who aren't even of a VFL standard but ignore Jefferson's 5 goal game against Sydney. It seems we have 2 standards here. Let's not kid ourselves JVR is getting games because he is useful as a back up Ruckman, his ability in 2025 as a KPF has been poor. Jefferson deserves games in the senior side now. If not let him go to a side that will give him a chance at senior level.

They both played well the last couple of vfl games. Of course JVR was picked because he can fill a role in the side. Jeffo can’t so needs to bash the door down which he’s yet to do, hopefully he’s in the process of doing it right now.

JVR has no forward craft, cannot take a mark, and has no athleticism, it is time for him to learn how to be a KPD at Casey, he played his best footy down there in his U18’s year, we must get proactive and stop hoping/banking on one of he or Jefferson coming good for the future, I think we even have to make a play for JUH our forward stocks are that dire (great player, unprofessional)

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Greg Schneider

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Maybe Goodwin thought he could pull off a Brisbane-like season, guaranteed premiership. 😎

Must admit I lost touch with reality for abit after the Brisbane and Swans games.
Even yesterday proved we can match it with anyone on the day.
Inconsistent effort and accuracy in front of goal is our nemesis.

14 minutes ago, reynolds46 said:

The stkilda loss rankles more imho

We would be 6-7 and despite the heartbreak of the 1 point loss to the Top team our season would still be alive and with some optimism

Spot on, we bring the effort from yesterday to even one quarter of the saints game and we win. After the swans and lions wins, the effort against the Saints is the one that annoys me the most. And the fact most of us weren't even surprised by it is a great way to summarise what it is to be a Melbourne supporter.

Hate Collingwood but they are a bloody good side. We lost by one point .

I feel we are just a couple of players short. Either a key forward or a tall half forward and a mid with good kicking. Doesn’t have to be one who gets 30 kicks a game

Very buoyed with Bowey and Turner this year and the promise show from the young guys. JVR can become a long term player if tried In backline. A junior backs who got big responsibility forward at a young age and then pushed into the ruck has damaged his development.

It’s over to the recruiters to find 2-3 new players to vie for senior spots next year.

2 hours ago, Adam The God said:

If he is tiring he's not showing huge signs of tiring IMO. He did shirks contests a few times, particularly against Cameron who he could have halved with his aerial prowess. His role model is Trac who regularly shirks going back with the flight.

I made this point very early in this season and was told the game was changing and that going back with the flight and potentially getting injured is less of a priority these days. I take that point and admit my viewpoint was dated.

I think that's the way the game is going. Players are regularly dropping out of aerial contests to protect themselves.

It is what it is. The players are human after all and have lives to think about after footy. Trac suffered a near death experience and there is an article in the press every couple of months about former players with concussion symptoms and likely CTE, which btw is very likely contributing to suicide amongst former AFL players.

The 2025 game is a different beast. It's an aerobic game that impacts decision making and the difference between being top of the ladder or outside of the 8 is executing under fatigue and under pressure.

Yeah I get all that but when it boils down that's why they're gettin' paid.
It's also danger money.
They're often referred to as modern day gladiators.

Can't demand ya million bucks a year and enjoy all the perks then spurn all the risk.
Gotta make sure you're in tip top nick for all those overseas holidays ya know.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Fork 'em

2 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Yeah I get all that but when it boils down that's why they're gettin' paid.
It's also danger money.
They're often referred to as modern day gladiators.

Can't demand ya million bucks a year and say "Ooh that looks abit sketchy, I'm not gonna go for that." though it seems ya can these days.
Gotta make sure you're in tip top nick for all those overseas holidays ya know.

Yes you can, no one should have a job that demands you regularly put yourself in the frame for a serious concussion. The game has enough chance of serious injury without adding stupidity to the mix.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Roost it far

Just now, Roost it far said:

Yes you can, no one should have a job that demands you regularly put yourself in the frame for a serious concussion. The game has enough chance of serious injury without adding stupidity to the mix.

Well obviously you can.
But you can't enjoy all the perks and then spurn the risks.

And there is a difference between bravery and stupidity.
No-one expect them to take stupid risks.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Fork 'em

One thing I would like to applaud from the club yesterday is the perceived physicality and agression our guys brought from the word go.

We have complained many times how we let those thugs bully us around every time we played against them. But yesterday was for sure a step in the right direction, let's keep it that way with this mob.

11 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

Hate Collingwood but they are a bloody good side. We lost by one point .

I feel we are just a couple of players short. Either a key forward or a tall half forward and a mid with good kicking. Doesn’t have to be one who gets 30 kicks a game

Very buoyed with Bowey and Turner this year and the promise show from the young guys. JVR can become a long term player if tried In backline. A junior backs who got big responsibility forward at a young age and then pushed into the ruck has damaged his development.

It’s over to the recruiters to find 2-3 new players to vie for senior spots next year.

Spot on. We need a steady head running through the midfield. We have too many panic merchants atm who are either devoid of confidence and/or have poor disposal / game sense. Perhaps this is Lindsay / Langford in 3-4 years time.

We need another playmaker off HB to help Bowey. One that has some agility and speed. It is not Windsor or Rivers. You could see Wanganeen - Milera in his first year had this ability about him. Karl Amon or Impey would have been a good acquisition many years ago. Miles Bergmann from Port is a good option and has to be a target at the end of this year.

Agree re: JVR. The forward line is not his position. Im afraid Jeffo isnt the answer either no matter how much development time this kid gets, he lacks strength and aggression. He is in the mold of the King brothers but shorter. A Nate Caddy or Logan Morris is the type of player we need to play alongside Petty.

Unfortunately i just dont see us cleaning shop at the end of the year. We will persist with the belief that we have the list and the players that we need to succeed. IMV we don't and we are probably 4-5 players short of having a real crack. The good news i suppose is that you can trade for these players as we did for '21 flag brining in Melksham, Hibberd, Langdon, Lever and May over 3-4 years.

ElDiablo14 said -

One thing I would like to applaud from the club yesterday is the perceived physicality and agression our guys brought from the word go.

We have complained many times how we let those thugs bully us around every time we played against them. But yesterday was for sure a step in the right direction, let's keep it that way with this mob.

Fork 'em - replied

Nah , Got the Beemer booked in for a service tomoz.
wouldn't want to get hurt.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Fork 'em

1 hour ago, GS_1905 said:

Predictably, the press are all on how Collingwood won the moments that matter blah blah blah. for a 1 point game, there is nothing but luck that seperates both teams.

I would like to agree with this, but we have more than enough sample size of our own defeats in close games versus Collingwood's wins in close games since 2022 to form an opinion that it's more than just luck.

If that's the commentary around the traps, I agree with it. They were cleaner when it mattered more.

If we tided up some of our entires, we win comfortably.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

They both played well the last couple of vfl games. Of course JVR was picked because he can fill a role in the side. Jeffo can’t so needs to bash the door down which he’s yet to do, hopefully he’s in the process of doing it right now.

Why was he an emergency yesterday? He played in neither game at the weekend and there is a bye for the seniors. So back to Casey this weekend. I would rather him play yesterday Instead of JVR. Petty could have filled in the ruck role. It is hard to see Jefferson giving us less than JVR yesterday. Of course we will never know. But give the guy a game for God's sake. What's to be lost we are no longer playing for a finals spot.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by old dee

1 hour ago, reynolds46 said:

The stkilda loss rankles more imho

We would be 6-7 and despite the heartbreak of the 1 point loss to the Top team our season would still be alive and with some optimism

Honestly, a win over the Saints last week would make this one a little easier to bare.

Signs were encouraging and we might play some very good footy from here on out but every conversation will be pre qualified with the 0-5 start. It rules out pretty much anything.

44 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Yes you can, no one should have a job that demands you regularly put yourself in the frame for a serious concussion. The game has enough chance of serious injury without adding stupidity to the mix.

And @Fork 'em , since when has doing the hard stuff equalled to the remuneration one gets in society?

47 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Spot on. We need a steady head running through the midfield. We have too many panic merchants atm who are either devoid of confidence and/or have poor disposal / game sense. Perhaps this is Lindsay / Langford in 3-4 years time.

We need another playmaker off HB to help Bowey. One that has some agility and speed. It is not Windsor or Rivers. You could see Wanganeen - Milera in his first year had this ability about him. Karl Amon or Impey would have been a good acquisition many years ago. Miles Bergmann from Port is a good option and has to be a target at the end of this year.

Agree re: JVR. The forward line is not his position. Im afraid Jeffo isnt the answer either no matter how much development time this kid gets, he lacks strength and aggression. He is in the mold of the King brothers but shorter. A Nate Caddy or Logan Morris is the type of player we need to play alongside Petty.

Unfortunately i just dont see us cleaning shop at the end of the year. We will persist with the belief that we have the list and the players that we need to succeed. IMV we don't and we are probably 4-5 players short of having a real crack. The good news i suppose is that you can trade for these players as we did for '21 flag brining in Melksham, Hibberd, Langdon, Lever and May over 3-4 years.

Nate caddy type for sure. I’ll go back a long way and say a bloke we had around 87. Forgot first name , Dean.

What I was trying to say with JVR is he can become one of those four or so players we are short and we already have him.

2 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

there is nothing but luck that seperates both teams

its not luck. i can't believe posters keep saying this

it is better skills and better execution

why do you think pies keep winning close games and we keep losing them

3 minutes ago, BDA said:

its not luck. i can't believe posters keep saying this

it is better skills and better execution

why do you think pies keep winning close games and we keep losing them

Firstly, we have won a close one against the Lions at the Gabba. This is the 2nd game this year we lost under a goal.

My point was that in the moments that mattered throughout the game, we were unlucky. Sure, some of them were skill and execution but for mine the key moments:

1. Fritta play on point in the fourth. Its not skill or execution. The opposing wing / HHF was in his blindspot. He kicks that goal 99/100. If you like call it stupidity - to me its just poor luck.

2. Umpiring. This is not on the team. Daicos push in the back. Was soft AF. Melksham's sandwiched free at HF, McCreery, 40m no bounce dash. This is just bad luck.

3. Kozzy's 50m penalty waa there, but the brain fade...9/10 he doesn't do that.

There is the obvious misses by Petty (out-on-the-full and 1 pointer); Melksham's poster, whilst these are gettable, to me were balanced out by Kozzy's freak soccer goal and Frittas forward pocket snap.

I may have missed a few other key moments, but that was the point i was trying to make is that on balance, it was a very tight game that in end was decided by fortune more than lack of skill or poor execution.

Not saying we are not a poor execution team or not less skillful - on the contrary i believe it very much to be the case.

4 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Yeah 2 snags for the young kid in a big game does take some mite. I wasnt convinced he had it to be successful in the AFL. Im not completely convinced but can see what he is capable of. You dont fluke performances like that. He can take confidence and build on that for sure.

3 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Predictably, the press are all on how Collingwood won the moments that matter blah blah blah. for a 1 point game, there is nothing but luck that seperates both teams. You could argue that up to 1-2 goals as well but its not more evident than a 1 point game.

Ill give credit to Collingwood, they looked far more composed and measured with the ball in the last 5 minutes. Perhaps because we failed to apply any sort of pressure on them.

I think Kolt could be very good, or very in and out. But I dont think it will be from a lack of trying.

Buckley mad a good point this morning where he said most teams lose it in the last few minutes, Collingwood dont, they dont necessarily win it, but they dont make themselves lose.

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

JVR can cover the ruck, Jeffo can’t. It’s pretty simple.

If that's his only purpose then reason suggests the rest of his time on the ground is a waste.

If he's a fwd pinch hitting as a ruck... he's a bust.

That's the definition of a list clogger surely.