13 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

There are two aspects to this though, its not just having the composure or time to lower the eyes, it is having forwards run to create space and options, this aspect is on the coaching group (similar issues to the Blues to be honest).

I have seen enough vision both on TV and with my own eyes where a player streaming out of the middle will ignore up to 3 easy hit up kicks to bomb it long to a pack.

It is a recurring problem with our mids in particular being recidivists. Our fwds do have poor running pattern issues but its also possible they are sick of making leads and being ignored. I spoke with one of our past fwds who said this was a big problem at Melbourne.

Maybe they are basking in their 2021 finals glory days.

Or maybe they spent so long kicking to the right fwd pocket that they can't adjust.

Either way I can't believe the coaching staff and players cant fix it.

Edited March 24Mar 24 by jnrmac

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I have seen enough vision both on TV and with my own eyes where a player streaming out of the middle will ignore up to 3 easy hit up kicks to bomb it long to a pack.

It is a recurring problem with our mids in particular being recidivists. Our fwds do have poor running pattern issues but its also possible they are sick of making leads and being ignored. I spoke with one of our past fwds who said this was a big problem at Melbourne.

Maybe they are basking in their 2021 finals glory days.

Or maybe they spent so long kicking to the right fwd pocket that they can't adjust.

Either way I can't believe the coaching staff and players cant fix it.

Yes are firey Demons we most definitely  BURN a lot of players. 

15 hours ago, Sesto said:

Three of the player position changes we’ve made haven’t worked and won’t ever work imo. 

Langdon was one of the best wingers in the game. Crazy to have him playing midfield.

Rivers needs to go back to being a defender - I’m not even sure what he’s doing now but he doesn’t have the ball handling and nous to play in the middle. 
 

And Fritter looks completely lost up the field - just as did when Goody had him playing as defender.

wow amazing how supporters jump the gun. Rivers was heralded as one of the few shining lights moving into the midfield last year, bringing acceleration, a big body and improved kicking. Round 2 and he's a spud midfielder. spare me.

Maybe with Oliver and Trac back playing decent footy he's finding his new role. We've had so much change and supporters just want seamless improvement. 

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I have seen enough vision both on TV and with my own eyes where a player streaming out of the middle will ignore up to 3 easy hit up kicks to bomb it long to a pack.

It is a recurring problem with our mids in particular being recidivists. Our fwds do have poor running pattern issues but its also possible they are sick of making leads and being ignored. I spoke with one of our past fwds who said this was a big problem at Melbourne.

Maybe they are basking in their 2021 finals glory days.

Or maybe they spent so long kicking to the right fwd pocket that they can't adjust.

Either way I can't believe the coaching staff and players cant fix it.

Unfortunately this blind bombing is seemingly ingrained in our core mids, Viney, Oliver, even Tracc. Any attempts to change our delivery into our forward line is going to struggle when our engine room only knows how play one way. 

Edited March 24Mar 24 by Earl Hood

6 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Unfortunately this blind bombing is seemingly ingrained in our core mids, Viney, Oliver, even Tracc. Any attempts to change our delivery into our forward line is going to struggle when our engine room only knows how play one way. 

100% agree and the coaches need to work out how to structure our side to ensure this happens less.

Oliver is still a gun at getting the ball and I love him in the middle so he stays.

Viney is in my opinion our worst field kick. He isn't a long kick and he also isn't accurate. He should be instructed to handball off at every possible chance. I think we should limit his time through the midfield and use him more as a pressure small forward a bit like Blake Hardwick.

Trac should be a 50/50 mid forward and I think Langford can wax on and off with him, starting this week v the Suns.

I'm struggling to get my head around a few repeated ideas in this thread:

1. Rivers has failed as a midfielder and must return to half back. 

Rivers has attended 8 centre bounces over two games - 14 percent of all centre bounces. He was at zero centre bounces in the North game. As far as I could tell he played on the half back flank. 

2. Charlie Spargo was rushed back in and was a liability. 

Spargo, a bloke who lowers his eyes, hits targets inside 50 and makes himself an option at half forward, is very close to the least of our worries at the moment. Did you expect him to get 25 and kick 4? 

3. Melksham will make a huge difference when he returns. 

No he won't. 

4. It all comes down to injuries. 

I'd love Windsor, May and McVee in the team (and Pickett makes a huge difference) but if you can't cover three or four best 22 players, you have a major problem with depth. North belted us without Logue, Wardlaw and Archer. Brisbane are winning without Coleman, Cameron, Lohmann, Doedee and McCarthy. St Kilda beat Geelong without King, Owens, Howard, Butler and Phillipou. The Dogs are more than competitive without Bont, Treloar, Weightman, Johannisen and Jones. Hawthorn haven't had Mitch Lewis since the end of the last ice age. They're making do without Calsher Dear. 

Injuries make it tough, but unless half your best 22 is out, that can't be an excuse for ten goal losses.  

For those interested, the fellas at the "Deebrief" had their own analysis of what they thought went wrong against the Kangaroos.

 

Call it a review or a therapy session, I don't mind listening to what they have to say. Although, I always listen to the Demonland podcast first. ❤️💙

4 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

3. Melksham will make a huge difference when he returns. 

No he won't. 

The hope is that he'll be doing the finger pointing and marshaling the leading lanes, while playing a defensive role on one of their off the chain defenders, like a Charlie Comben. He did this in 2023 upon return and prior to his acl. I don't think anyone is expecting a huge difference (Given age, injury history), but we just want to see some change to the status quo and some semblance of organization in the forward line. 

Edited March 25Mar 25 by John Demonic

5 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

4. It all comes down to injuries. 

I'd love Windsor, May and McVee in the team (and Pickett makes a huge difference) but if you can't cover three or four best 22 players, you have a major problem with depth. North belted us without Logue, Wardlaw and Archer. Brisbane are winning without Coleman, Cameron, Lohmann, Doedee and McCarthy. St Kilda beat Geelong without King, Owens, Howard, Butler and Phillipou. The Dogs are more than competitive without Bont, Treloar, Weightman, Johannisen and Jones. Hawthorn haven't had Mitch Lewis since the end of the last ice age. They're making do without Calsher Dear. 

Injuries make it tough, but unless half your best 22 is out, that can't be an excuse for ten goal losses.  

I agree and disagree with this bit in equal portions, if that’s even possible. 

I agree, for example, that it’s not all just down to injuries. I also agree that good sides cover for injured players, and that our list depth remains poor. 

But I think there’s more to it than your analysis here. Yes, Brisbane and Hawthorn are winning despite injuries, but the key difference IMO is that they each have 6 players in total on their injury lists, whilst we have 13. So we’re missing 4 of our best 10-12 players, but we’re also missing another 4-5 who would be our next rung called up. And saying that injuries don’t lead to a 10 goal loss is silly - they clearly can. Missing your best players can lead to inconsistency, as evidenced by St Kilda going from inept in Round 1 to, well, not inept in Round 2 (they got Owens and Stocker back, by the way). 

2 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

For those interested, the fellas at the "Deebrief" had their own analysis of what they thought went wrong against the Kangaroos.

 

Call it a review or a therapy session, I don't mind listening to what they have to say. Although, I always listen to the Demonland podcast first. ❤️💙

I can’t stand the DeeBros. Don’t listen to the Land one much either. I just know too much to make it worth the frustrating listen.

13 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I can’t stand the DeeBros. Don’t listen to the Land one much either. I just know too much to make it worth the frustrating listen.

Phone in and impart your wisdom on us uneducated plebs, you don't have to listen to anything except Andy cheerfully asking you what you want to say 

Edited March 25Mar 25 by John Demonic

1 hour ago, John Demonic said:

The hope is that he'll be doing the finger pointing and marshaling the leading lanes, while playing a defensive role on one of their off the chain defenders, like a Charlie Comben. He did this in 2023 upon return and prior to his acl. I don't think anyone is expecting a huge difference (Given age, injury history), but we just want to see some change to the status quo and some semblance of organization in the forward line. 

Fair call. Seeking a change from the status quo is completely understandable. 

I just think he comes up an extraordinary amount for a player who, as you say, is 34 and injury prone. I would add that even at his very very best he has never been an intense, agile lock-it-in forward. 

There's no better example of absence making the heart grow fonder in footy fans than Melksham. 

13 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

And saying that injuries don’t lead to a 10 goal loss is silly - they clearly can.

They can play a huge part. I just don't think these particular injuries explain losing so badly to a team with the youngest average age and the third least number of average games in the league. 

There is one way to fix it. Apart from predetermined rotations, players typically get benched for poor efforts or match ups.

Well we need to extend this to inside 50 kicks. When a player bombs it when they have time, they get benched and have a few minutes to reflect

On 24/03/2025 at 06:28, Waltham33 said:

Post game Viney said the team was off all day. Need to find the reason why however lower end of the list is what I suspect. That said you only play as well as the opposition let’s you, North have the talent coming through and the best ruckman in the comp. 

I would love to give all the praise to the opposition. They were great. But we were terrible. There was something not right with a number of players.

The problem is that we went completely missing a few times last year and it's happened again. That is really concerning.

14 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

wow amazing how supporters jump the gun. Rivers was heralded as one of the few shining lights moving into the midfield last year, bringing acceleration, a big body and improved kicking. Round 2 and he's a spud midfielder. spare me.

Maybe with Oliver and Trac back playing decent footy he's finding his new role. We've had so much change and supporters just want seamless improvement. 

Rivers just needs a bit more time and experience to adjust to the additional opposition midfield pressure. Certainly worth continuing with.

I haven't seen anything which suggests Langdon can play an inside role. He looked completely lost last weekend.

Edited March 25Mar 25 by BAMF

13 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Phone in and impart your wisdom on us uneducated plebs, you don't have to listen to anything except Andy cheerfully asking you what you want to say 

I do it here for free everyday.

Quote me.

I don’t know who is doing it, but please, for the love of God, whoever keeps clicking their pen during the podcast could they please stop it is literally driving me insane!

22 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I'm struggling to get my head around a few repeated ideas in this thread:

1. Rivers has failed as a midfielder and must return to half back. 

Rivers has attended 8 centre bounces over two games - 14 percent of all centre bounces. He was at zero centre bounces in the North game. As far as I could tell he played on the half back flank. 

2. Charlie Spargo was rushed back in and was a liability. 

Spargo, a bloke who lowers his eyes, hits targets inside 50 and makes himself an option at half forward, is very close to the least of our worries at the moment. Did you expect him to get 25 and kick 4? 

3. Melksham will make a huge difference when he returns. 

No he won't. 

4. It all comes down to injuries. 

I'd love Windsor, May and McVee in the team (and Pickett makes a huge difference) but if you can't cover three or four best 22 players, you have a major problem with depth. North belted us without Logue, Wardlaw and Archer. Brisbane are winning without Coleman, Cameron, Lohmann, Doedee and McCarthy. St Kilda beat Geelong without King, Owens, Howard, Butler and Phillipou. The Dogs are more than competitive without Bont, Treloar, Weightman, Johannisen and Jones. Hawthorn haven't had Mitch Lewis since the end of the last ice age. They're making do without Calsher Dear. 

Injuries make it tough, but unless half your best 22 is out, that can't be an excuse for ten goal losses.  

System and method- Its the elusive goal of all coaches. We can equally ask when we have a system that lends itself to plug and play.  

Keep thinking about this 

“Melbourne's scoring efficiency from their inside 50s is currently the league's poorest.

The Demons have scored from just 35.7 per cent of their inside 50 this year. If the season were to end now, their conversion rate would be the worst since North Melbourne's in 2020.

Questions have hovered over whether Melbourne's emerging talents can progress, as concerns over the Demons' options in attack loom large. So far in 2025, the concerns have been proven valid”. 

last week … inside 50s 

Dees -56 times. 9 goals. 
Kangas - 53 times. 19 goals. 

fyi 

Power. 56 times. 21 goals 

Crows 63 times. 25 goals. 

Three years and still no solutions !!! 

4 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Keep thinking about this 

“Melbourne's scoring efficiency from their inside 50s is currently the league's poorest.

The Demons have scored from just 35.7 per cent of their inside 50 this year. If the season were to end now, their conversion rate would be the worst since North Melbourne's in 2020.

Questions have hovered over whether Melbourne's emerging talents can progress, as concerns over the Demons' options in attack loom large. So far in 2025, the concerns have been proven valid”. 

last week … inside 50s 

Dees -56 times. 9 goals. 
Kangas - 53 times. 19 goals. 

fyi 

Power. 56 times. 21 goals 

Crows 63 times. 25 goals. 

Three years and still no solutions !!! 

That's pretty damning to read.

21 hours ago, BAMF said:

There was something not right with a number of players.

Perhaps there's more to Goodwin's "backstory" comment than just Max?

We know that a few players have been ill of late (e.g., Turner last weekend), perhaps there's a bit going on in.

(Not excusing anyone either.)

On 25/03/2025 at 00:46, Earl Hood said:

Unfortunately this blind bombing is seemingly ingrained in our core mids, Viney, Oliver, even Tracc. Any attempts to change our delivery into our forward line is going to struggle when our engine room only knows how play one way. 

Touched on by Garry Lyon on AFL360 - that the players who get the ball the most are also the ones who have poor disposal.

On 24/03/2025 at 23:34, jnrmac said:

Either way I can't believe the coaching staff and players cant fix it.

They can fix it - just not in one pre-season.

Though it's almost entirely on the players IMV, from what we know/have heard the coaching staff are trying to implement a different approach, and have been since last season.

Also IMV only real fix is a change to the list, prioritising players with smarts and good skills. Which we've been doing (Windsor, Lindsay etc), but see above, it's not a quick fix.

44 minutes ago, bing181 said:

They can fix it - just not in one pre-season.

Though it's almost entirely on the players IMV, from what we know/have heard the coaching staff are trying to implement a different approach, and have been since last season.

Also IMV only real fix is a change to the list, prioritising players with smarts and good skills. Which we've been doing (Windsor, Lindsay etc), but see above, it's not a quick fix.

I don't believe that for a second.

We saw Clarkson at hawthorn regularly change their game style in season

IN any case we are talking about mids not bombing the ball into the fwd 50. I'd almost be certain that this is not to instruction. But Oliver, Viney and Tracc are just butchers of the ball usually

52 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I don't believe that for a second.

We saw Clarkson at hawthorn regularly change their game style in season

IN any case we are talking about mids not bombing the ball into the fwd 50. I'd almost be certain that this is not to instruction. But Oliver, Viney and Tracc are just butchers of the ball usually

Of course. But it hasn't changed. Some of Vineys kicks inside 50 last week were the worst I've ever seen from him. Worse than when he had full blown plantar fasciitis.

Players who consistently do it needs to be dragged to the bench. If it continues then you tell them they will be dropped until it improves. If it doesn't get better you drop them for someone who can do it better.

It's 100% in the coaches power to change but they don't and I don't know if they will. They just continue to talk about it.