Supporters and unrealistic expectations

[D4Life 2,527]

This isn’t aimed at Demon supporters just a general observation!

Aussie Ang P manager of Spurs is getting hammered in the press recently about his job under threat!

Out of a squad of circa 25 senior players, he is supposedly missing 10. 1st choice players in keeper, Vicario, Van de Ven. , Romero, ( Davies backup) Odobert, Richarlson, Bentacaur suspended, Udogie.

They win 4-3 against United and he is getting hammered because Goalkeeper makes two errors!

They lose 4-3 against Chelsea where two of his players give away two dumb penalties- almost equivalent of player 70 meters out in AFL, I’ll push him over to give him a 50 meters penalty!

Supporters and press hammer the manager, whenever team loses, rarely is a pragmatic view taken. More hysterical few loses sack the manager versus:

- missing 5-6 starters from the team

- playing kids and bench super thin

- don’t blame the manager, keeper gifted two goals, otherwise it’s a shutout against MU

- don’t blame the manager, two dumb penalties against Chelsea

The Treatment of Ang provides an example of how supporters and the press all too often ignore facts, for sensationalistic headlines or overly dramatic conclusions!

18 teams in AFL, only win flag winner, last year for the Demons:

- Oliver not fully fit all season

- Trac gone half season

- May ribs carried most of season

- Fritsch and Petty foot/leg injuries carried from 2023

- Lever & Bowey injured in season 6 plus weeks

- Salem preseason interrupted likely never fit

- Brayshaw lost before season started

- plus more

- Club board & management seemingly a number of dumb things

Add up all of the above and 11 wins a reasonable result! Destruction by Dockers twice and poor efforts against Pies are the results that made me want to puke!

I would be much more upset if I was a supporter of Giants (choke in QF), Dogs (heartless finals performance against Hawks), and Dockers (not making finals)!

Demons looking at 2025, fingers crossed for luck with injuries, a few lucky breaks during the year and a finals spot is ours for the taking!

 

[chook fowler 19,551]

Unrealistic expectations and being a fan is part of the deal - always has been and always will be. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,364]

Fans including dee's fans need to move on from using injuires to explain unsatisfactory results. 

Perhaps valid in 2019 and 2022. 

But in 2023 we kicked ourselves out of a Prelim and probably a flag.  Yes, I know there were some injuries and other factors but we kicked 16.28 in two finals!  The second semi was 9.17 with leaders having collective brain fades in the last minute and we lost by two points!!!  A waste of a season imv.  

For 2024 injuries might've contributed to missing finals.  But not 14th !!! 

To summarise our 2024, Goodwin: "... right now we aren't great at any phase of the game which means we haven't got an identity..." 

Believe him folks !!  14th wasn't injuries !!

Anyway, lets move on to 2025 where I'm optimistic of making finals and going deep into Sept.

Edited Sunday at 00:51 by Lucifers Hero

[binman 43,779]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

This isn’t aimed at Demon supporters just a general observation!

Aussie Ang P manager of Spurs is getting hammered in the press recently about his job under threat!

Out of a squad of circa 25 senior players, he is supposedly missing 10. 1st choice players in keeper, Vicario, Van de Ven. , Romero, ( Davies backup) Odobert, Richarlson, Bentacaur suspended, Udogie.

They win 4-3 against United and he is getting hammered because Goalkeeper makes two errors!

They lose 4-3 against Chelsea where two of his players give away two dumb penalties- almost equivalent of player 70 meters out in AFL, I’ll push him over to give him a 50 meters penalty!

Supporters and press hammer the manager, whenever team loses, rarely is a pragmatic view taken. More hysterical few loses sack the manager versus:

- missing 5-6 starters from the team

- playing kids and bench super thin

- don’t blame the manager, keeper gifted two goals, otherwise it’s a shutout against MU

- don’t blame the manager, two dumb penalties against Chelsea

The Treatment of Ang provides an example of how supporters and the press all too often ignore facts, for sensationalistic headlines or overly dramatic conclusions!

18 teams in AFL, only win flag winner, last year for the Demons:

- Oliver not fully fit all season

- Trac gone half season

- May ribs carried most of season

- Fritsch and Petty foot/leg injuries carried from 2023

- Lever & Bowey injured in season 6 plus weeks

- Salem preseason interrupted likely never fit

- Brayshaw lost before season started

- plus more

- Club board & management seemingly a number of dumb things

Add up all of the above and 11 wins a reasonable result! Destruction by Dockers twice and poor efforts against Pies are the results that made me want to puke!

I would be much more upset if I was a supporter of Giants (choke in QF), Dogs (heartless finals performance against Hawks), and Dockers (not making finals)!

Demons looking at 2025, fingers crossed for luck with injuries, a few lucky breaks during the year and a finals spot is ours for the taking!

 

It's really interesting you should highlight this.

As a kid in the 70s soccer was a foreign sport, at least for me and my Anglo mates, and I never got into it.

I have enjoyed it as a sport since the so called golden era for the socceroos - and have enjoyed watching the Australian mens and women's teams since.

But I've never been able to get into epl, serie a etc ' or the A league as i haven't had  a team to follow.

But I've been following spurs since Ange became manager - not forensically, but watch the highlights and listen to his pressers.

I subscribed to bein sports last Friday so I could watch the spurs man up cup game.

Super entertaining.

And speaking of entertaining, I have listened to a couple of ange's post man u cup game pressers.

I was thinking of posting about those pressers, and the ones after the Chelsea loss, rangers draw, southhampton win and Bournemouth loss.

In particular I was interested in ange's repeated emphasis after both wins and losses, on how many of his best players were out injured and the impact it has had (and has in general - ie the impact of injury on performance).

None of the soldier out, soldier in, no excuses rubbish that AFL coaches fall into.

Ange just say it like it is and states the facts - having so many players injured makes it very, very difficult.

And not just once - repeatedly (he must have mentioned it 5 times in the presser the day after the man u game - linked below) across multiple interviews.

At the same time he has also pumped up the players who have stepped up, particularly the several 18 - 20 year olds he's playing.

So refreshing.

'If I lose anyone else I'll go nuts' - ange's last presser here:

https://youtu.be/4QFFF6vjEME?si=XSc68DHbiD-Nygx3

Edited Sunday at 01:16 by binman

[rjay 25,091]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

Aussie Ang P manager of Spurs is getting hammered in the press recently about his job under threat!

Love Ang...he's very much his own man.

The problem is the Brit pundits (and some of the Spurs stick in the mud fans) can't understand how an Aussie can come from out of nowhere and turn the competition on it's head with a different style of play.

As he asked one of them the other night "was it entertaining?"...

[binman 43,779]

 

13 minutes ago, rjay said:

Love Ang...he's very much his own man.

The problem is the Brit pundits (and some of the Spurs stick in the mud fans) can't understand how an Aussie can come from out of nowhere and turn the competition on it's head with a different style of play.

As he asked one of them the other night "was it entertaining?"...

I think he said 'are you not entertained'.

That made me laugh- quoting Russell crowe in the gladiator.

Edited Sunday at 01:13 by binman

[rjay 25,091]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

 

I think he said 'are you not entertained'.

That made me laugh- quoting Russell crowe in the gladiator.

Thanks 'bin'...I found that whole press conference entertaining.

He really seems to enjoy poking fun at the pundits...what was his line about Carragher?, you can name him.
Or the Roy Keane not being a good guy one.

I really enjoy some of the stuff from Keane, Neville, Wright, Carragher and Scott on the overlap. Very entertaining but some of them struggle to get Ange.

[binman 43,779]

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

Thanks 'bin'...I found that whole press conference entertaining.

He really seems to enjoy poking fun at the pundits...what was his line about Carragher?, you can name him.

That made me laugh too - particularly his deadpan follow up that Carragher 'apparently' likes him and 'that's nice'.

The irony of caraaghers criticism (that ange ball causes them to almost lose a game they were 3 nil up in), one that was strangely not pointed out by ange or any of the journos, is they gave up those goals when they went defensive and had stopped attacking (perhaps because they were out on their feet).

The two brain fades from the keeper (forster) came after they passed back from the centre line instead of pressing forward.

Imagine ange at an AFL presser - he'd make bevo look like a peacenik.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,300]

As a Spurs supporter for the last few years my issue with them isn't the losses to Chelsea and the like, it's the losses to Crystal Palace, Leicester, Ipswich and Bournemouth.

Having said that I agree Ange should be given this season and into next to show what he can do with the squad, sacking him now would be idiotic.

Supporters have a right to demand success though, as an MFC supporter Goodwin has developed the squad for long enough, any failures are his. There are always extenuating circumstances but every club has them, it's how you overcome them that determines your greatness. 2022 and 2023 were wasted years for the MFC we should have come away with at least one flag from those two campaigns.

[reynolds46 1,273]

But is Ang the right guy?

[binman 43,779]

Another interesting thing about ange in terms of intersections with AFL is the coverage of his game style over there in terms of the gap between reality and perception.

That's well captured in this quote from the article linked below:

'It is instructive that only coaches who have a clearly defined and recognisable style seem to have that style blamed for every single shortcoming, even if the logic doesn’t always hold up to scrutiny.

Postecoglou’s football is, indeed, serving a secondary purpose: it is exposing just how much of modern football discourse is based on tired old tropes, flimsy premises and Colbert-style truthiness.

It feels right to say United’s second-half surge was because Postecoglou is stubborn and didn’t tell his players to “get hold of that game”, even though it only happened because of freak individual errors that had nothing to do with anything else.

It feels right to criticise Spurs for being “too open” and “chaotic”, even if their stats show they are one of the Premier League’s best defensive teams, and that they’ve not lost a single game this season by more than a one-goal margin.'

 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/are-you-not-entertained-postecoglou-is-two-steps-away-from-vindication-with-spurs-20241220-p5kzwp.html

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,496]

Not so much a Spurs thing but one dynamic that is very different between football and Australian Rules, particularly in the English Premier League and the Championship is promotion and relegation as well as European football qualification for the elite clubs. The financial implications of which can make a massive difference to a manager's tenure. In AFL a club gets rewarded with the best young player in the country for finishing bottom. 

As an aside we really should have put Spurs away the other night at Ibrox. Ange can trot out all the all the injury soundbites he likes but his club has a transfer budget 100 times bigger than ours thanks to tv money and leveraged debt. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,130]

It’s a beautiful thing when Spurs lose..

Ange is far too good for that Rabble 

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

spurs are right where they should be imo - they're an entertaining team to watch, as you never know what they'll do in 10 mins, let alone 90

i do think it's hilarious that one of the most data-lead football back office hired ange, a man who is very much set in his style of playing

epl is at least somewhat competitive this year, albeit that the top tier teams are the same as it ever was, which gets...boring

that's why leicester city's premiership title win outta nowhere was so good

[JTR 2,856]

Yeah, but... wHeN aRe We sAcKiNg gOoDWiN ?!?!11!

[BDA 22,883]

To borrow a phrase, Spurs are all duck and no dinner.

Ange is a good manager but he's not top tier. Too one dimensional. Spurs are his level. When he finishes there, he won't have any big clubs knocking on his door.

[The Taciturn Demon 580]

19 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Supporters have a right to demand success though, as an MFC supporter Goodwin has developed the squad for long enough, any failures are his.

I strongly agree with this.

Soccer seems to have a culture of sacking coaches after absurdly small periods of time. I'd argue Australian rules, at least at the top level, has the opposite culture. 

Exactly as Dr Gonzo said, after several years, the idea that a coach is being held back by their list is a very difficult excuse to swallow. That's their list. They're not wholly responsible for the recruiting decisions, but they have enormous influence in how the players develop. 

I always find it strange when people in the media and some supporters lament the sacking of a coach after 150 or 200 games in charge. Less than ten percent of players make it to 150 and less than five to 200. 

[D4Life 2,527]

In my top dozen players for Melbourne in the last 50 years, I have the following not in order:

Flower

Gawn

Oliver

Petracca

Pickett

May

Viney (Jack)

Neitz

Lyon

Wells 

Jakovich/Alves (Jako only had 2-3 great seasons, but should have been a superstar)

Stynes

This year Trac with half a season, Oliver not fit all season, May broken ribs, Gawn chipped bone in leg.

Basically 4 of our best ever players in 50 years in my view didn’t play this season in anything like 50% fit or 50% of games! Go through any team and do the same to their top 4 players, see what happens to them. Not to mention Brayshaw who was in our best 5-6 players the preceding 3 years and a significant leader on and off the field!

A good run with injuries in 25 and we will be pushing for top 4!

 

[Ghostwriter 1,840]

2 hours ago, BDA said:

To borrow a phrase, Spurs are all duck and no dinner.

Expect to be set upon and duly pummelled by five Spurs players when next you meet. 😜

Edited Sunday at 23:49 by Ghostwriter

[Ghostwriter 1,840]

I have unrealistic expectations at the *beginning of every season, but I think what’s important is how one deals with those expectations not being met. Personally I remind myself that our team’s fortunes are not something in my control. It also helps to blindly adore our players and coaches 😁

 

*this is why the Season Launch is by far and away *THE BEST function on the calendar. Clean slate, fresh start, etc. Everyone is full of hope and confidence for a successful season. If you can get yourself there it’s well worth the effort and $
 

*except for last year’s Season Launch but only because it was held on the same day Gussy’s forced retirement was announced publicly. 😢

[schmutt 4]

2022-2023 obviously had high expectations - 2024 I just wanted to be entertained, and that clearly didn't happen.

I don't expect a flag, I don't even necessarily expect finals (Especially if we actually select young players rather than making them sub for two minutes a game). I just want to enjoy watching us, which I think plenty of MFC supporters would agree with.

[layzie 34,003]

Ang is a philosophy based coach and won't apologise for it. It can take a while to implement and it was great that they did well last season so he could continue with it but in reality it probably needs two full seasons and some more signings. 

He was pretty devastated in his presser after the Liverpool game this morning, I really hope they can win some games soon because I really would like to see him get some long term success there. 

Edited yesterday at 12:29 by layzie

[Dr. Gonzo 24,300]

8 hours ago, schmutt said:

2022-2023 obviously had high expectations - 2024 I just wanted to be entertained, and that clearly didn't happen.

I don't expect a flag, I don't even necessarily expect finals (Especially if we actually select young players rather than making them sub for two minutes a game). I just want to enjoy watching us, which I think plenty of MFC supporters would agree with.

I enjoy watching us when we win.

[layzie 34,003]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I enjoy watching us when we win.

I agree.

There were some ridiculous takes on here later in the year when we had shocking crowds that people weren't turning up because of the playing style. When people sign up for a membership they usually want one thing, to win. I'd be surprised if many write in a survey that the one thing they want is to play one very specific kind of football.

I understand people wanting change to the style and I believe we need it to evolve if we want to be a threat again but if you're really not turning up because you want to be entertained then go watch an action film, play Xbox, buy some cool Xmas tree decorations etc. We love beautiful football but there's other ways to drive a Ferarri other than fast. 

[Roost it far 8,609]

10 hours ago, layzie said:

I agree.

There were some ridiculous takes on here later in the year when we had shocking crowds that people weren't turning up because of the playing style. When people sign up for a membership they usually want one thing, to win. I'd be surprised if many write in a survey that the one thing they want is to play one very specific kind of football.

I understand people wanting change to the style and I believe we need it to evolve if we want to be a threat again but if you're really not turning up because you want to be entertained then go watch an action film, play Xbox, buy some cool Xmas tree decorations etc. We love beautiful football but there's other ways to drive a Ferarri other than fast. 

There’s only one way to drive a Ferrari.