On 13/10/2024 at 22:29, Jibroni said:

In short we have to make the finals next year to make this trade work.

I dont mind the risk/reward aspect as it makes the whole Club accountable and cannot afford another poor season.

if pick 9 is a gun we win the trade. That’s the way the Demons look at it. They identify their targets and make the deals happen to get them

I can’t remember what we gave up to get the Kozzi pick and I don’t care 🙂

So we give Essendon a few later picks which were of no real use to us, but satisfies the Bombers as they need the points

Pick 9 was never going to come easy although I feel we've ended up with a colossal win anyway

As @Axis of Bob mentioned, our strategy has been the pointy end of the draft so the later picks are steak knives to us but valuable to the Bombers

And as @DeeSpencer indicated, there's still a chance that we might trade a player out with at least something coming back (not likely, but a possibility?) 

We'll either take DFAs (I think Parfitt would be useful) or Rookies (but we're full there unless we delist Hore so we'd need to promote someone). We can also draft at the end of the ND to fill spots even though we've traded 3rd and 4th rounders, next round picks just come in.

I like it. 

All I hear is that this year’s draft is strong and next year’s isn’t. 

If we want to do something whilst we still have Gawn and May (…and Trac and Clarry…), it’s better to hit this year’s draft than wait to next year’s. 

The picks after 40 aren’t worth enough to us so it makes sense to release them as steak knives. 

I think we need to remember that our list is good,

We need quality not quantity at this point. We are not north/richmond/WCE

 

Bring in a midfielder? You are going to be competing with Sparrow for a spot.

Yes he was bad this year, but he's still a seasoned player with something to prove. 

Bring in 3 mids? They are not going to get opportunity without injuries. 

 

Same goes for most other positions - is a KPP going to dislodge Petty or Turner? I think not for a few years. 

 

Better to bring in 2 high quality players that can get opportunity and make immediate impact

Edited October 13, 2024Oct 13 by Lord Neville X Flash

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:03, The Taciturn Demon said:

Underrated problem, I reckon. I think Melbourne has fallen into this trap way too often in the past couple of years - but well before that also. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Flag came when Casey was flush with players who could honestly consider themselves very unlucky not to be getting a game. 

Yeah we didn’t have to use many of them in 2021 but that was more of a fluke that realistically repeatable. 

Guys like Bedford and JJ were busting to get in to the 22, even Melk as a veteran wanted in.

Depth might be overrated, fringe players are fringe players. But health of the list is important, especially with a lot of 30+ guys who will break down if you ride them in to the ground. 

  On 13/10/2024 at 22:57, Axis of Bob said:

Oh no, what would we do without pick 40?  😐

Our recent drafting history with picks in the National Draft at 40 and above:

2023: None. 2022: None. 2021: Taj Woewodin (FS match). 2020: None. 2019: None. 

One would almost think that we have a drafting philosophy of doing whatever we can to get further up the list where the good players are, rather than picking later where the ordinary players are. I'm not going to cry over giving up additional late picks to get a top 10 picks.

Instead we top up our list with rejects from other clubs who end up being ordinary players for us.

There's always talent after the 1st round. We've just chosen to ignore it.

Give us pick 9… sell sell sell all those picks 

any good small forwards in the top 15? wouldn’t be surprised if we target one with 9

  On 13/10/2024 at 12:51, Macca said:

We might gave to trump up a bit more than what we're hearing (to the Bombers) but it will be worth it

And I'm convinced that the need to replenish the midfield (with picks 5 & 9?) has got a lot to do with the uneasy situation with Trac & Clarrie

The club can't sit idly by and hope for the best.  So go the other way and create a position of strength

By doing that we can trade and bargain in the next off-season knowing that if we lose either player (or both) we won't be left short

In fact, if both are worth 2 first round draft picks then both combined are worth 4 first round draft picks.  That's a lot of picks

As well as picks 5 & 9 this off-season

So go hard this off-season and then get Trac & Clarrie fit and firing and playing well

By default, increasing their trade value for the 2025 off-season (if either or both want out)

In the background there's JT who doesn't draft busts.  His ability puts us into a no-lose situation

Agree with all of this, though I think we'd be wanting to get all of their salary off our books if Trac and Clarry did ask for a trade next year. In that case, it's less likely we get two first round picks.

I'd suspect we'll go hard for an FA next year too. If we can convince them, we use the rising cap space due to the CBA to fit them in or we have plenty of cap space minus Clarry, Trac or both.

  On 13/10/2024 at 12:51, Macca said:

We might gave to trump up a bit more than what we're hearing (to the Bombers) but it will be worth it

And I'm convinced that the need to replenish the midfield (with picks 5 & 9?) has got a lot to do with the uneasy situation with Trac & Clarrie

The club can't sit idly by and hope for the best.  So go the other way and create a position of strength

By doing that we can trade and bargain in the next off-season knowing that if we lose either player (or both) we won't be left short

In fact, if both are worth 2 first round draft picks then both combined are worth 4 first round draft picks.  That's a lot of picks

As well as picks 5 & 9 this off-season

So go hard this off-season and then get Trac & Clarrie fit and firing and playing well

By default, increasing their trade value for the 2025 off-season (if either or both want out)

In the background there's JT who doesn't draft busts.  His ability puts us into a no-lose situation

Even if trac and Clarry stay we are still well down on midfield rotations. It’s clearly the biggest area of need either way.

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:14, mo64 said:

Instead we top up our list with rejects from other clubs who end up being ordinary players for us.

There's always talent after the 1st round. We've just chosen to ignore it.

Picks after 20 have been a bit hit and miss for us in recent years: 

Bowey (good), Howes (good), Rosman (miss), Laurie (miss)

 

Top 20 a lot better:

Windsor (Great), Kolt (Looks good), Jefferson (?)

 

I agree though, our trades for Hunter, Billings, McAdam, Grundy has failed miserably, I think the club will stop now. Although, Billings is okay for depth and I still hold an iota of hope McAdam could come good

  On 13/10/2024 at 22:50, DeeSpencer said:

2 potential Cat B rookies (Mentha, Irish) that might push AMW on to a main list or just consume an extra rookie spot? Could be 4/8 if that goes our way.

Who's "Irish" - is that a reference to one of the Irish players that tried out? 

I'm also scratching my head with how we fill all the spots.

I've been wondering if because we finished so low, we get close to first dibs (compared with previous years) in the Rookie draft and mid-season draft.  Maybe that's coming into calculations?

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:21, Adam The God said:

Agree with all of this, though I think we'd be wanting to get all of their salary off our books if Trac and Clarry did ask for a trade next year. In that case, it's less likely we get two first round picks.

I'd suspect we'll go hard for an FA next year too. If we can convince them, we use the rising cap space due to the CBA to fit them in or we have plenty of cap space minus Clarry, Trac or both.

Their pure value is worth at least 2 first rounders each but their salaries, form and other factors lessens their value

Or we just get them going again and keep them.  And then play hard ball on a trade for either player

None of us have to concern ourselves about handing out the pay packets and I always reckon there's a way to fit it all in (see Geelong) 

It's like accumulating points for an academy player or father/son.  The clubs always seem to find a way

Ideal outcome would be drafting 2 gun midfielders with Ollie & Tracca finding their best form and staying

Do that and we are right back in the picture, AF

 

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:19, DubDee said:

any good small forwards in the top 15? wouldn’t be surprised if we target one with 9

Joe Berry. Ollie Hannaford slightly further back.

I also wonder whether Carlton have a player in mind at 12. Even when they were in the Houston race they were adamant in holding on. Which I’m turn makes me wonder whether we were very keen to get ahead of them (rather than be sandwiched between Carlton picks if we secured p13 from GC).

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:29, Macca said:

Their pure value is worth at least 2 first rounders each but their salaries, form and other factors lessens their value

Or we just get them going again and keep them.  And then play hard ball on a trade for either player

None of us have to concern ourselves about handing out the pay packets and I always reckon there's a way to fit it all in (see Geelong) 

It's like accumulating points for an academy player or father/son.  The clubs always seem to find a way

Ideal outcome would be drafting 2 gun midfielders with Ollie & Tracca finding their best form and staying

Do that and we are right back in the picture, AF

 

If they both get back to health and near peak form in 2025, their value on the market will sky rocket - some oppo clubs will see them as the final piece to win a flag

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:28, deelusions from afar said:

Who's "Irish" - is that a reference to one of the Irish players that tried out? 

I'm also scratching my head with how we fill all the spots.

I've been wondering if because we finished so low, we get close to first dibs (compared with previous years) in the Rookie draft and mid-season draft.  Maybe that's coming into calculations?

Don’t know and can’t spell his name but the tall guy of the 2 Irish kids that came out is apparently rated very highly. 

Mentha doesn’t have to go through the rookie draft if he’s undrafted in the main draft.

And yes, otherwise pick 5 in the rookie draft is mostly equivalent to an end of the draft pick. Probably the same value as pick 65

 

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:19, DubDee said:

any good small forwards in the top 15? wouldn’t be surprised if we target one with 9

Joe Berry 

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:31, ChaserJ said:

Joe Berry. Ollie Hannaford slightly further back.

I also wonder whether Carlton have a player in mind at 12. Even when they were in the Houston race they were adamant in holding on. Which I’m turn makes me wonder whether we were very keen to get ahead of them (rather than be sandwiched between Carlton picks if we secured p13 from GC).

If you believe everything you read, Bloos fans reckons they love Berry and Lindsay

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:31, DeeSpencer said:

Don’t know and can’t spell his name but the tall guy of the 2 Irish kids that came out is apparently rated very highly. 

Mentha doesn’t have to go through the rookie draft if he’s undrafted in the main draft.

And yes, otherwise pick 5 in the rookie draft is mostly equivalent to an end of the draft pick. Probably the same value as pick 65

 

Say Mentha is selected at 35, how do we match without a pick, if 49 is gone for Sharp.

We must have given up on Derksen, if these suggested pick swaps are correct, as we are giving everything after 5 to Bombers, with one kept for Sharp apparently.

I am confused.

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:35, adonski said:

If you believe everything you read, Bloos fans reckons they love Berry and Lindsay

They’re the 2 I’d like to trade back to 12 to get! 

Carlton like us are trying to fix their skill/outside run deficiencies.

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:37, Redleg said:

Say Mentha is selected at 35, how do we match without a pick, if 49 is gone for Sharp.

We must have given up on Derksen, if these suggested pick swaps are correct, as we are giving everything after 5 to Bombers, with one kept for Sharp apparently.

I am confused.

Try and get a live trade done.

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:14, mo64 said:

Instead we top up our list with rejects from other clubs who end up being ordinary players for us.

There's always talent after the 1st round. We've just chosen to ignore it.

No one can claim to be an expert talent spotter after the first round. It becomes a gamble very quickly at that point.

I never like the strategy in these trades. We are paying credit card interest and next year we will hear about how good the top end of the draft is.

  On 13/10/2024 at 23:37, Redleg said:

Say Mentha is selected at 35, how do we match without a pick, if 49 is gone for Sharp.

We must have given up on Derksen, if these suggested pick swaps are correct, as we are giving everything after 5 to Bombers, with one kept for Sharp apparently.

I am confused.

Mentha won’t go in the national draft, he’s a small skinny kid from Alice who didn’t get a kick half of the time.

Derksen might be off, but we can slide future picks to accumulate value.

GWS would surely like our future 2 and Ess f 3 more than their own. There’s hidden value there.