The Jagga Smith Thread

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

45 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

The comparisons are being made because they're blatantly obvious. He moves exactly like Butters, down to the quick short gait in his stride, pivot of hips and spins to avoid tackles. He's not as penetrating of a kick as Butters, but he wins more hard ball and positions himself better.

He was more pure clearance extractor earlier in the season, and so handballed sideways and backwards out of congestion more often. As the season wore on he altered this and by the end of it he was bursting out front of stoppages regularly, dare I say Bang, Bang, Bang style. He's rarely run down also due to having extraordinary reflexes like Clarry to get a handball off in the rare occasion someone manages to catch him.

He's not the mid-forward bull JT usually goes for, but he'd be a worthy pick 5. 

Things Butters does:
Candy selling and baulks
Contested marking
Changing the angle of his ball drop and kicks around his body
Elite kicking vision
High end burst pace
Playing on in unpredictable ways the moment he gets the ball

There's none of that in Jagga's game

 

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

22 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Huge chance he gets through to No.5 if Richmond uses its No.1 pick on Sam Lalor as many are now predicting. If they do, North will go Tauru as they don’t want Smith because they already have enough quality small mids.

The Blues are committed to O’Sullivan and the Crows want Draper which leaves us deciding between Smith, Langford and Armstrong.

In that scenario, if we want Smith then the Tigers will offer us either picks 6 and 23 to get Smith or picks 10 and 11 and to be honest I think I’d make the trade. But I would also be happy with just taking Smith - there is no doubt he can play.

Richmond have been linked to Smillie, there's no way they'd offer us 6 and 23 for 5. If they wanted a second bite of the top group of mids they'd offer that to North for pick 2 and make sure they get the one they want.

[Little Goffy 14,398]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Richmond have been linked to Smillie, there's no way they'd offer us 6 and 23 for 5. If they wanted a second bite of the top group of mids they'd offer that to North for pick 2 and make sure they get the one they want.

Someone needs to get in Yze's ear that we are definitely taking Smillie with 5 and what is 23 really worth when you have half the first round already?

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

1 hour ago, Young Blood said:

Definitely agree that the Butters comparison is a poor one.

But you keep mentioning that he most often goes sideways or backward with the ball. Why is this such a bad thing? Jagga's first priority is to find players in space which he does incredibly well. He'll draw a few players, use his hip strength and agility to get himself free enough to give the ball off to players in space and generally on the move. Football's not played in straight lines, fluid ball movement is about changing the angles and this kid has terrific vision to find players in space to make the next play. He very rarely throws it on the boot and values his possessions and uses his team mates to link up for forward entries. We're dying for more players like this.

I'm assuming you would rather a big-bodied mid to break the lines and run forward with the ball? Thats not Jagga's game, but what he does do is give the ball off and get on the move running forward himself for the next receive. He's got such a great balance and inside/outside game. 

We're crying out for quicker skilled mids who play less in straight lines but I don't see the pace or skill with Jagga and you have to take the game forward at AFL level or the ground shrinks and forward pressure just eats you up. If you're heading sideways out the back of stoppages you still have to get pace on the ball and make sure the run overlaps and dissects the oncoming pressure. Otherwise you're just making it someone elses problem.

I've done this a few times for Jagga but I'll do it again.

0:05 - backwards handball to a stationary team mate
0:13 - missed kick
0:35 - nice hit up chip kick (FOS great lead)
0:46 - refuses to kick, wide handball 
0:50 - nice handball (FOS gets too ambitious)
0:57 - nothing handball
1:04 - cleverly takes advantage when opponent stops, nice hit up
1:15 - fumble, nothing handball
1:25 - nice forward handball (to FOS)
1:35 - no aerial technique, free kick for a hold
1:42 - wins a clearance free running forward, does he stick the foot down and drive it deep? No, backwards handball to a winger
1:53 -because the ball has gone nowhere he's there for the 8m kick (ball should be inside 50).
2:01  -simple handball (good 1-2 from Yze)
2:08 - fumble, missed handball
2:15 - nothing kick
2:24 - keeps his feet in a tackle, nice dish off
2:31 - lazy hacked kick, deliberate
2:45 - nothing handball
2:50 - nothing handball
3:05 - risky but good handball but doesn't get there on the full
3:10 - lucky fumble
3:20 - great running, but kick doesn't have enough juice and gets spoiled
3:30 - well timed release handball
3:42 - complete junk handball to 3 opposition players
3:55 - finally some leg drive, but after staring down number 35 for an eternity he gives the handball without enough juice to hit the target on the full
4:17 - some actual evasion! And a quality goal
4:30 - good crumb, good release handball
4:45 - missed tackle
4:55 - fumble fumble, turnover
5:22 - nice clearance, picks a decent target but the 9 iron kick is very easy to spoil
5:43 - turnover
5:52 - missed kick
6:02 - short to a contest
6:05 - obvious handball but no shepherd
6:16 - burns the 1-2, burns the chance to run to the corridor, dribbles it to the gun along the boundary
6:25 - nice flip of the hips and handball
6:43 - 25m long kick (in fairness, was in to the breeze)
6:49 - goes free kick hunting when he has a handball option

The goal was really nice and there's a couple of moments of good evasive skills. A couple. But his handballing isn't in remotely the same ball park of someone like a Murphy Reid. If it's not obvious he's rarely creative. And the majority of his kicking is either nothing flash or just poor, missing targets or hanging in the air.

He's a high level game runner and reads the ball off the pack very well. Useful traits. But most AFL players are advanced in those areas and teams spend plenty of time working on their defensive running and work rate to cancel out mids who run hard. If you're a Sam Walsh level freak you can occasionally catch teams napping but the best teams in big moments aren't getting done by one paced free midfield runners.

He's going to have to develop like Lachie Neale has - both physically and especially with his decision making around stoppages - because he just doesn't have the natural skills or speed to be damaging on the outside. Even when he overlaps runs he doesn't take full advantage.

There's been a big rise of smaller mids this year and some of them - Neale, Serong - really make their living as inside mids. But most like Daicos, Gulden and Zach Merrett carve you up with speed and skills on the outside and I just don't see that with Jagga.

 

 

[Young Blood 2,565]

50 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We're crying out for quicker skilled mids who play less in straight lines but I don't see the pace or skill with Jagga and you have to take the game forward at AFL level or the ground shrinks and forward pressure just eats you up. If you're heading sideways out the back of stoppages you still have to get pace on the ball and make sure the run overlaps and dissects the oncoming pressure. Otherwise you're just making it someone elses problem.

I've done this a few times for Jagga but I'll do it again.

0:05 - backwards handball to a stationary team mate
0:13 - missed kick
0:35 - nice hit up chip kick (FOS great lead)
0:46 - refuses to kick, wide handball 
0:50 - nice handball (FOS gets too ambitious)
0:57 - nothing handball
1:04 - cleverly takes advantage when opponent stops, nice hit up
1:15 - fumble, nothing handball
1:25 - nice forward handball (to FOS)
1:35 - no aerial technique, free kick for a hold
1:42 - wins a clearance free running forward, does he stick the foot down and drive it deep? No, backwards handball to a winger
1:53 -because the ball has gone nowhere he's there for the 8m kick (ball should be inside 50).
2:01  -simple handball (good 1-2 from Yze)
2:08 - fumble, missed handball
2:15 - nothing kick
2:24 - keeps his feet in a tackle, nice dish off
2:31 - lazy hacked kick, deliberate
2:45 - nothing handball
2:50 - nothing handball
3:05 - risky but good handball but doesn't get there on the full
3:10 - lucky fumble
3:20 - great running, but kick doesn't have enough juice and gets spoiled
3:30 - well timed release handball
3:42 - complete junk handball to 3 opposition players
3:55 - finally some leg drive, but after staring down number 35 for an eternity he gives the handball without enough juice to hit the target on the full
4:17 - some actual evasion! And a quality goal
4:30 - good crumb, good release handball
4:45 - missed tackle
4:55 - fumble fumble, turnover
5:22 - nice clearance, picks a decent target but the 9 iron kick is very easy to spoil
5:43 - turnover
5:52 - missed kick
6:02 - short to a contest
6:05 - obvious handball but no shepherd
6:16 - burns the 1-2, burns the chance to run to the corridor, dribbles it to the gun along the boundary
6:25 - nice flip of the hips and handball
6:43 - 25m long kick (in fairness, was in to the breeze)
6:49 - goes free kick hunting when he has a handball option

The goal was really nice and there's a couple of moments of good evasive skills. A couple. But his handballing isn't in remotely the same ball park of someone like a Murphy Reid. If it's not obvious he's rarely creative. And the majority of his kicking is either nothing flash or just poor, missing targets or hanging in the air.

He's a high level game runner and reads the ball off the pack very well. Useful traits. But most AFL players are advanced in those areas and teams spend plenty of time working on their defensive running and work rate to cancel out mids who run hard. If you're a Sam Walsh level freak you can occasionally catch teams napping but the best teams in big moments aren't getting done by one paced free midfield runners.

He's going to have to develop like Lachie Neale has - both physically and especially with his decision making around stoppages - because he just doesn't have the natural skills or speed to be damaging on the outside. Even when he overlaps runs he doesn't take full advantage.

There's been a big rise of smaller mids this year and some of them - Neale, Serong - really make their living as inside mids. But most like Daicos, Gulden and Zach Merrett carve you up with speed and skills on the outside and I just don't see that with Jagga.

 

 

OK so we're now hand picking youtube clips and analyzing every possession. I'll ask you again like I did with Armstrong. Have you actually been to a game and seen Armstrong or Jagga live? I have only seen the two Armstrong games but have been to quite a few Jagga games and each time have found him to be the most impactful player on the ground he has the highest motor I've seen in a long time. His agility/side steps/evasive skills are not so pronounced yes but they're there and he'll most likely improve on this over time.

 

[adonski 11,606]

Sounds like all the good players this year will be gone by pick 5. Just our luck.

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

3 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

OK so we're now hand picking youtube clips and analyzing every possession. I'll ask you again like I did with Armstrong. Have you actually been to a game and seen Armstrong or Jagga live? I have only seen the two Armstrong games but have been to quite a few Jagga games and each time have found him to be the most impactful player on the ground he has the highest motor I've seen in a long time. His agility/side steps/evasive skills are not so pronounced yes but they're there and he'll most likely improve on this over time.

 

I didn’t go to a single junior game live this year but I watched some of the champs and a few Coates league games. Yes, there’s things you get a better handle on live but if you watch enough you can piece together what the camera doesn’t show.

There’s something like 20 different Jagga Smith games uploaded to YouTube with just about every possession and major moment recorded. I’m not cherry picking highlights or lowlights.

My opinion is pretty simple:

Strengths: game running+++, very good reading of the play

Clean enough without perfect hands to gather the ball. Decent but not special evasive skills.

Everything else is needs a lot of improvement and whilst he has the character and work ethic by all reports he’s also spent the year as a full time footballer giving him a significant advantage of those who had school (studies and footy). Kicking, speed, over head marking, aggression and natural flair are hard things to teach too.

 

[Young Blood 2,565]

Just picked a random game from youtube and had a watch. Not one of the ones I attended. But this kids special.

Feel like it really highlights his strengths and impact offensively particularly.

Highlight for me at 0:39 where he receives a handball only to quickly pivot and turn away/against the direction of the play to open up the ground, nice burst of pace to get himself open to hit up the CHF down the corridor. Such a small thing but makes such a big impact. We need this type of player.

Video shows multiple times Jagga bursts forward out the front of stoppages. He's certainly not a straightline midfielder, he's always looking to change the angles to find the best options in space.

 

Edited Thursday at 06:36 by Young Blood

[demoncat 1,250]

Did Jagga run over your dog @DeeSpencer?

I’ve never seen someone argue at such length against a kid who is universally agreed to be in the 5 best prospects in the draft 

Praying for you if we end up landing him 🙏

[dazzledavey36 54,084]

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Huge chance he gets through to No.5 if Richmond uses its No.1 pick on Sam Lalor as many are now predicting. If they do, North will go Tauru as they don’t want Smith because they already have enough quality small mids.

The Blues are committed to O’Sullivan and the Crows want Draper which leaves us deciding between Smith, Langford and Armstrong.

In that scenario, if we want Smith then the Tigers will offer us either picks 6 and 23 to get Smith or picks 10 and 11 and to be honest I think I’d make the trade. But I would also be happy with just taking Smith - there is no doubt he can play.

Crows are coming extremely hard for Langford as well.

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

27 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Did Jagga run over your dog @DeeSpencer?

I’ve never seen someone argue at such length against a kid who is universally agreed to be in the 5 best prospects in the draft 

Praying for you if we end up landing him 🙏

If we pick him at 9 it’s fine. I doubt it will happen but if we use 5 he’ll be ok and I will too. Vanilla can be ok. But people have lost their minds seeing things that just don’t exist.

[Nascent 9,054]

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Crows are coming extremely hard for Langford as well.

Interesting, have seen him linked there in some articles. Believe I've seen Carlton consider Draper as well. We could be in a scenario where we have O'Sullivan or Draper to choose from along with Smith.

[Bates Mate 4,462]

If he's there with our first pick I'd be disappointed if we didn't grab him

[spirit of norm smith 16,163]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Crows are coming extremely hard for Langford as well.

DD36. I am a huge Langford supporter and would be pleased to see him in red and blue next year.  
If Crows did massively surprise and take Langford ahead of Draper, I’d be very tempted to draft Draper. He’s also an elite midfielder imv. 

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

1 hour ago, Young Blood said:

Highlight for me at 0:39 where he receives a handball only to quickly pivot and turn away/against the direction of the play to open up the ground, nice burst of pace to get himself open to hit up the CHF down the corridor. Such a small thing but makes such a big impact. We need this type of player.

Why didn’t he do that more often? Some nice runs from the middle (but the midfield defending is absolutely awful).

Otherwise more of the same low impact stuff.

[Ted Lasso 19,189]

53 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

DD36. I am a huge Langford supporter and would be pleased to see him in red and blue next year.  
If Crows did massively surprise and take Langford ahead of Draper, I’d be very tempted to draft Draper. He’s also an elite midfielder imv. 

If we had pick 4, i'd probably be calling for Draper over Langford or Smith, so more than happy for them to pass. 

[58er 6,331]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

We're crying out for quicker skilled mids who play less in straight lines but I don't see the pace or skill with Jagga and you have to take the game forward at AFL level or the ground shrinks and forward pressure just eats you up. If you're heading sideways out the back of stoppages you still have to get pace on the ball and make sure the run overlaps and dissects the oncoming pressure. Otherwise you're just making it someone elses problem.

I've done this a few times for Jagga but I'll do it again.

0:05 - backwards handball to a stationary team mate
0:13 - missed kick
0:35 - nice hit up chip kick (FOS great lead)
0:46 - refuses to kick, wide handball 
0:50 - nice handball (FOS gets too ambitious)
0:57 - nothing handball
1:04 - cleverly takes advantage when opponent stops, nice hit up
1:15 - fumble, nothing handball
1:25 - nice forward handball (to FOS)
1:35 - no aerial technique, free kick for a hold
1:42 - wins a clearance free running forward, does he stick the foot down and drive it deep? No, backwards handball to a winger
1:53 -because the ball has gone nowhere he's there for the 8m kick (ball should be inside 50).
2:01  -simple handball (good 1-2 from Yze)
2:08 - fumble, missed handball
2:15 - nothing kick
2:24 - keeps his feet in a tackle, nice dish off
2:31 - lazy hacked kick, deliberate
2:45 - nothing handball
2:50 - nothing handball
3:05 - risky but good handball but doesn't get there on the full
3:10 - lucky fumble
3:20 - great running, but kick doesn't have enough juice and gets spoiled
3:30 - well timed release handball
3:42 - complete junk handball to 3 opposition players
3:55 - finally some leg drive, but after staring down number 35 for an eternity he gives the handball without enough juice to hit the target on the full
4:17 - some actual evasion! And a quality goal
4:30 - good crumb, good release handball
4:45 - missed tackle
4:55 - fumble fumble, turnover
5:22 - nice clearance, picks a decent target but the 9 iron kick is very easy to spoil
5:43 - turnover
5:52 - missed kick
6:02 - short to a contest
6:05 - obvious handball but no shepherd
6:16 - burns the 1-2, burns the chance to run to the corridor, dribbles it to the gun along the boundary
6:25 - nice flip of the hips and handball
6:43 - 25m long kick (in fairness, was in to the breeze)
6:49 - goes free kick hunting when he has a handball option

The goal was really nice and there's a couple of moments of good evasive skills. A couple. But his handballing isn't in remotely the same ball park of someone like a Murphy Reid. If it's not obvious he's rarely creative. And the majority of his kicking is either nothing flash or just poor, missing targets or hanging in the air.

He's a high level game runner and reads the ball off the pack very well. Useful traits. But most AFL players are advanced in those areas and teams spend plenty of time working on their defensive running and work rate to cancel out mids who run hard. If you're a Sam Walsh level freak you can occasionally catch teams napping but the best teams in big moments aren't getting done by one paced free midfield runners.

He's going to have to develop like Lachie Neale has - both physically and especially with his decision making around stoppages - because he just doesn't have the natural skills or speed to be damaging on the outside. Even when he overlaps runs he doesn't take full advantage.

There's been a big rise of smaller mids this year and some of them - Neale, Serong - really make their living as inside mids. But most like Daicos, Gulden and Zach Merrett carve you up with speed and skills on the outside and I just don't see that with Jagga.

 

 

Jagga spoke with Gettable yesterday and admitted he has changed his approach after being spoken to by a coaching staff at his Coates club. He said that he is now chalking up much more metres covered as a result of it being pointed out that he did not progress enough over the ground. 

The film clip highlights may well be from early season 2024 and also you watching these leads you Dee to pass your observation. 

I would prefer Tauru at 5 and the best mid available for our outside footy available at 9. Did like the highlights of Smith thought a bit of Ashcroft in his breakaways and speed. 

Not upset of we get Jagga or Langford or Lindsay or Allan or even if we get a mid at 5 then Shanahan at 9. 
JT will get us 2 aces no doubt but one tall and one mid with pace and skill is what we need. 

 

[Young Blood 2,565]

34 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Why didn’t he do that more often? Some nice runs from the middle (but the midfield defending is absolutely awful).

Otherwise more of the same low impact stuff.

We see the game very differently and that's perfectly fine.

I hope we pick him and you and I will be very happy with the player we picked ☮️

[manny100 1,482]

1 hour ago, Young Blood said:

We see the game very differently and that's perfectly fine.

I hope we pick him and you and I will be very happy with the player we picked ☮️

Certainly a low risk pick ball magnet. Context is that there is usually a bust or 2 in the top 10 and you don't want to be the club that gets one.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:43 by manny100

[Diamond_Jim 12,502]

The Age draft predictions have Smith going to MFC

The top fifteen are:

Sam Lalor (Richmond)

Levi Ashcroft (Brisbane matching Nth Melb's bid)

Alix Tauru (Nth Melbourne)

Finn O'Sullivan (Carlton)

Harvey Langford (Adelaide)

Jagga Smith (Melbourne)

Josh Simile (Richmond)

Leo Lombard (Gold Coast matching St Kilda's bid)

Isaac Koko (Essendon matching St Kilda's bid)

Sid Draper (St Kilda)

Xavier Lindsay (St Kilda)

Harry Armstrong (Melbourne)

Tobie Travaglia (Richmond)

Jobe Shanahan (Richmond)

Bo Allan (West Coast)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-afl-draft-is-just-weeks-away-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-top-40-prospects-20241024-p5kl0v.html

What I found interesting is that Jagga Smith was ranked 1 by the Age poll in August and has now slipped to 6.

These are the comments on Smith:

Smith is a lightly framed midfield marvel who is an expert ball-winner with quick feet and rare agility that he uses to escape tight spots. He gathered an incredible 50 disposals and 24 contested possessions against Western Jets in a game this season, and is renowned for almost always hitting his target, particularly by hand. Smith has performed against boys and men, and recruiters were pleased to see him kick more goals and be more damaging with his disposals towards the end of the season. He is the safest pick in the draft, but recruiters believe his ceiling as a player is lower than some peers. If it’s not Smith here, the Demons may take Sid Draper instead.

 

Edited Friday at 03:50 by Diamond_Jim

[Demon Disciple 11,998]

If Draper is available, i wouldnt be able to call out his name fast enough.

[Supreme_Demon 3,714]

Who is the most elite kick in this year's draft?

That's who the Demons need to look at taking.

[Dee-tonator 230]

The skill in draft selection is not in seeing what youngsters can do now.

It is the much rarer ability to spot what they can develop into.

All the speculation is interesting, but I have no doubt Jason Taylor already has his priorities sorted out.

And in Jason I trust.

[Demon Disciple 11,998]

2 hours ago, Dee-tonator said:

The skill in draft selection is not in seeing what youngsters can do now.

It is the much rarer ability to spot what they can develop into.

Uh, the dreaded ‘p’ word

[rpfc 28,220]

That Josh Simile… hope is better than that Tim Metaphor, or worse yet - Sam Analogy.

We will never be able to tell them apart…