Christian Petracca

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,100]

Perhaps the fact these issues are now out in the open and not festering away under the surface is actually a good thing. There's an opportunity for everyone to refocus and recommit to a common set of standards and goals much in the way we started 2021. Doesn't mean it'll happen of course. 

[waynewussell 4,842]

Now add, JVR, Judd, Windsor, Melksham, Howes, Hore, Chandler,  Woewodin, Turner & Moniz-Wakefield.

Name the blokes on that list who have dropped their standards!

All up, that's 24 players (I'm not counting 13 OR 5!)

[waynewussell 4,842]

These are the players I have in mind,

Bowey, Fritsch, Gawn, Langdon, Lever, May, McDonald, Petty, Pickett, Rivers, Salem, Spargo, Sparrow, Viney, JVR, Judd, Windsor, Melksham, Howes, Hore, Chandler, Woewodin, Turner & Moniz-Wakefield.

Do you notice poor standards anywhere? Are there any scallywags?

Edited September 4 by waynewussell

[John Demonic 5,484]

3 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

These are the players I have in mind,

Bowey, Fritsch, Gawn, Langdon, Lever, May, McDonald, Petty, Pickett, Rivers, Salem, Spargo, Sparrow, Viney, JVR, Judd, Windsor, Melksham, Howes, Hore, Chandler, Woewodin, Turner & Moniz-Wakefield.

Do you notice poor standards anywhere? Are there any scallywags?

I could definitely see DJ Spargs and Disco Turner throwing a weeky Rave at Revolver

[waynewussell 4,842]

3 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

I could definitely see DJ Spargs and Disco Turner throwing a weeky Rave at Revolver

Does that fall into the 'dropped standards' or 'scallywag" category?

[Neil Crompton 5,308]

2 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Does that fall into the 'dropped standards' or 'scallywag" category?

You might want to hold your powder dry about “scallywags” until certain investigations are completed. 

[waynewussell 4,842]

4 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

You might want to hold your powder dry about “scallywags” until certain investigations are completed. 

I am holding my powder... that's why I haven't named anyone. I'm inviting others to take the shot!

[waynewussell 4,842]

I also suggest that we would discover 'scallywags' on every AFL Club list consistent with the % of 'Scallywags' in this age group, society wide.

[Neil Crompton 5,308]

12 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

I am holding my powder... that's why I haven't named anyone. I'm inviting others to take the shot!

I think you’d better have another look at the players you did name. You cannot possibly know if they are scallywags or not.  And whether you admit it or not, a number on your first list have certainly dropped their playing standards since ‘21. Hence we are not playing finals. 

[waynewussell 4,842]

2 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think you’d better have another look at the players you did name. You cannot possibly know if they are scallywags or not.  And whether you admit it or not, a number on your first list have certainly dropped their playing standards since ‘21. Hence we are not playing finals. 

You have missed the point! I'm asking you to name them!

[waynewussell 4,842]

Are we talking "standards" or 'form'?

[waynewussell 4,842]

So, we get a lot of sweeping statements about dropping standards, poor culture yada yada. We seem to have more difficulty naming names. As one who attends training as often as possible, I haven't noticed a drop in standards at training.

[Sir Why You Little 36,585]

5 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

So, we get a lot of sweeping statements about dropping standards, poor culture yada yada. We seem to have more difficulty naming names. As one who attends training as often as possible, I haven't noticed a drop in standards at training.

There are certain Topics on this Forum that are not allowed to be discussed, as you well know 

The upcoming Court Case will discuss a lot of it, i have no doubt 

[waynewussell 4,842]

So, we are not allowed to discuss players on the list that may or may not have dropped their standards. I call BS!

[binman 41,923]

54 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

I also suggest that we would discover 'scallywags' on every AFL Club list consistent with the % of 'Scallywags' in this age group, society wide.

Indeed.

And even tracc, or at least words attributed to him, described the 'culture' issues in the past tense - eg 'previous' issues.

The issues tracc has ventilated this season are a mixture of old grievances (eg how clarry was managed in 2023 and previous years, an implication stuff wasn't reined in etc etc) and the fall out from his injury.

And the latter stuff is really tracc's problem, not indicative of a club wide issue amongst players.

I'm not debating there were issues in 2023 and in previous years - the club acknowledged as such during the 2023/24 off season.

I flagged them myself. 

And perhaps there still are stilll issues (major ones I mean, there are always minor issues  at EVERY club at any given point in time).

But the evidence simply does not support there being major issues at the club atm.

If the environment is as bad as the media, and many on here, make it out to be, it makes no sense that so many players extend their contracts this year, most in the last couple of months, particularly young guns like jvr, kolt and windsor who had no need to extend now

Can someone who thinks we are in crisis or have huge culture issues explain why jvr, kolt and Windsor would choose to extend now when all three could wait until next year or the year after?

Or why langers, one of our most professional trainers, would choose to extend his contract?

And if it was so bad, tracc could have got to a club who had the capital to get a deal done.

Ditto koz.

I just think there is a risk of conflating issues and having them blend together into a sense of unbroken chaos.

Which doesn't equate to me being naive about issues at the club - i have been consistently critical over a number of years about how we manage things, particularly from a comms perspective. 

One example - i was very critical of the club for not publicly rebuking Clarry for that stupid, immature pre training interview he did when he was just about to come back into the side late in 2023 and his immature behaviour feigning a hammy injury at that same training.

(ironically i copped it pretty hard on that thread for being too precious and making a mountain out of a mole hill - ironic because the subtext was this was a continuation of behaviour that I was aware of and felt the club should do more to rein in and manage. Suffice to say i was in no way surprised when the issues came to light at season's end).  

But at any given time something is always happening at club land - it's just a matter of whether it gets traction in the media and a story that can endure for more than a day can be spun out of it.

Take the Stengle story.

The Cats are top 4 and only a few weeks out of finals, having played a game in the arvo, Stengel (a bloke who has got well know form in this space) gets so hammered at a night club that he passed out, collapsed and had to be taken to taken to ER in an ambulance.

That's incredibly serious.

And only happened a few weeks ago. At a club lauded for its culture.

Edited September 4 by binman

[adonski 10,788]

Culcha is winning games

[bing181 8,894]

I take the reference to a drop in standards with a grain of salt, especially when it comes from Trac. That he could cite ANB leaving as evidence of the club's failings says a lot as to where he's currently at. Understandably perhaps given the trauma etc., but still.

(Whether or not we shouldn't be looking at how we can improve right across the board is a separate discussion.)

[waynewussell 4,842]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

Indeed.

And even tracc, or at least words attributed to him, described the 'culture' issues in the past tense - eg 'previous' issues.

The issues tracc has ventilated this season are a mixture of old grievances (eg how clarry was managed in 2023 and previous years, an implication stuff wasn't reined in etc etc) and the fall out from his injury.

And the latter stuff is really tracc's problem, not indicative of a club wide issue amongst players.

I'm not debating there were issues in 2023 and in previous years - the club acknowledged as such during the 2023/24 off season.

I flagged them myself. 

And perhaps there still are stilll issues - major ones I mean, there are  issues at EVERY club. 

But the evidence simply does not support there being major issues 

If the environment is as bad as the media, and many on here, make it out to be, it makes no sense that so many players extend their contracts this year, most in the last couple of months, particularly young guns like jvr, kolt and windsor who had no need to extend now

Can someone who thinks we are in crisis or have huge culture issues explain why jvr, kolt and Windsor would choose to extend now when all three could wait until next year or the year after?

Or why langers, one of our most professional trainers, would choose to extend his contract?

And if it was so bad, tracc could have got to a club who had the capital to get a deal done.

Ditto koz.

I just think there is a risk of conflating issues and having them blend together into a sense of unbroken chaos.

Which doesn't equate to me being naive about issues at the club - i have been consistently critical over a number of years about how we manage things, particularly from a comms perspective. 

One example - i was very critical of the club for not publicly rebuking Clarry for that stupid, immature pre training interview he did when he was just about to come back into the side late in 2023 and his immature behaviour feigning a hammy injury at that same training.

(ironically i copped it pretty hard on that thread for being too precious and making a mountain out of a mole hill - ironic because the subtext was this was a continuation of behaviour that I was aware of and felt the club should do more to rein in and manage. Suffice to say i was in no way surprised when the issues came to light at season's end).  

But at any given time something is always happening at club land - it's just a matter of whether it gets traction in the media and a story that can endure for more than a day can be spun out of it.

Take the Stengle story.

The Cats are top 4 and only a few weeks out of finals, having played a game in the arvo, Stengel (a bloke who has got well know form in this space) gets so hammered at a night club that he passed out, collapsed and had to be taken to taken to ER in an ambulance.

That's incredibly serious.

And only happened a few weeks ago. At a club lauded for its culture.

Love your work, binman. You provide balance when balance is called for!

[bing181 8,894]

1 hour ago, John Demonic said:

I could definitely see DJ Spargs and Disco Turner throwing a weeky Rave at Revolver

Just re Spargo, I'd be surprised. The fact that he was the one chosen to take Melksham's place as kind of "player liaison" on the gameday bench says something about how the club and players see him. He must be doing something right.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,694]

5 hours ago, IRW said:

Maybe a trade..Trac to Cats, Scott to Dee's, 

 

 

What position does Scott play?

[Demonsterative 3,016]

1 hour ago, waynewussell said:

I am holding my powder... that's why I haven't named anyone. I'm inviting others to take the shot!

 

1 hour ago, Neil Crompton said:

You might want to hold your powder dry about “scallywags” until certain investigations are completed. 

FFS. Just snort the [censored], have your moment and move on…. 
 

😂🤩😳

[BDA 22,238]

49 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

So, we are not allowed to discuss players on the list that may or may not have dropped their standards. I call BS!

From an on-field perspective i think the team was very consistent for a number of seasons until this year.

off-field there was the entrecote incident 2 years ago. drinking heavily and brawling in public. and some of the words that were exchanged were not reflective of a supportive culture. I'm not surprised Melks reacted the way he did.

Maybe that was a one-off incident. but maybe not..

[Adam The God 29,292]

13 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

There are certain Topics on this Forum that are not allowed to be discussed, as you well know 

The upcoming Court Case will discuss a lot of it, i have no doubt 

It might be avoided altogether if we get our broom out and sweep out the board room. At least those expected to feature.

Edited September 4 by Adam The God

[Sydee 4,182]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Indeed.

And even tracc, or at least words attributed to him, described the 'culture' issues in the past tense - eg 'previous' issues.

The issues tracc has ventilated this season are a mixture of old grievances (eg how clarry was managed in 2023 and previous years, an implication stuff wasn't reined in etc etc) and the fall out from his injury.

And the latter stuff is really tracc's problem, not indicative of a club wide issue amongst players.

I'm not debating there were issues in 2023 and in previous years - the club acknowledged as such during the 2023/24 off season.

I flagged them myself. 

And perhaps there still are stilll issues (major ones I mean, there are always minor issues  at EVERY club at any given point in time).

But the evidence simply does not support there being major issues at the club atm.

If the environment is as bad as the media, and many on here, make it out to be, it makes no sense that so many players extend their contracts this year, most in the last couple of months, particularly young guns like jvr, kolt and windsor who had no need to extend now

Can someone who thinks we are in crisis or have huge culture issues explain why jvr, kolt and Windsor would choose to extend now when all three could wait until next year or the year after?

Or why langers, one of our most professional trainers, would choose to extend his contract?

And if it was so bad, tracc could have got to a club who had the capital to get a deal done.

Ditto koz.

I just think there is a risk of conflating issues and having them blend together into a sense of unbroken chaos.

Which doesn't equate to me being naive about issues at the club - i have been consistently critical over a number of years about how we manage things, particularly from a comms perspective. 

One example - i was very critical of the club for not publicly rebuking Clarry for that stupid, immature pre training interview he did when he was just about to come back into the side late in 2023 and his immature behaviour feigning a hammy injury at that same training.

(ironically i copped it pretty hard on that thread for being too precious and making a mountain out of a mole hill - ironic because the subtext was this was a continuation of behaviour that I was aware of and felt the club should do more to rein in and manage. Suffice to say i was in no way surprised when the issues came to light at season's end).  

But at any given time something is always happening at club land - it's just a matter of whether it gets traction in the media and a story that can endure for more than a day can be spun out of it.

Take the Stengle story.

The Cats are top 4 and only a few weeks out of finals, having played a game in the arvo, Stengel (a bloke who has got well know form in this space) gets so hammered at a night club that he passed out, collapsed and had to be taken to taken to ER in an ambulance.

That's incredibly serious.

And only happened a few weeks ago. At a club lauded for its culture.

Apologies if it’s been discussed previously but what are the concerns expressed or implied by Trac about Oliver’s treatment in 2023? 

[rpfc 28,042]

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

So, we get a lot of sweeping statements about dropping standards, poor culture yada yada. We seem to have more difficulty naming names. As one who attends training as often as possible, I haven't noticed a drop in standards at training.

I don’t have to name names - our best player did an actual ‘ruction’ in trying to leave and implicated the ‘names’ as having dropped standards and professionalism. 

This is such a silly argument - we are going to have an external review, possibly a new President, probably two new line coaches, and whatever recommendations come from this review that some of you have convinced yourselves will find little that the playing group can do better in both their professional preparation and behaviour… 

Ahh, might want to look behind who before you backtrack too quickly.