5 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Agreed but he's untradeable atm. I'd say the club are going to back him in to ignore the media, have a great preseason and return in 2025 in full Oliver Mode.

You are probably right, but it is becoming a serious concern. Clarrie is not invested, once the game starts 

he needs a Tough Love Preseason this summer 

his knee clearly limits his mobility from time to time - it bothered him all the way through the back half of 2022 and seems to crop up and bother him every now and then over the last two years

he would still suit our game style perfectly; it's such a shame he left, more so than hogan

i believe we got more 'value' for him than any other player traded in the afl

i'm confident that jefferson and windsor - the players we effectively received for him - will be players for us for some time

i wish him all the best, but i hope dog never tastes premiership success again

Edited August 11, 20241 yr by whatwhat say what

I reckon LJ will be better than what he is right now but not as good as many have claimed in the past. I’m happy with the players we effectively got for him. 
 

The only downside to it was the time lag we will have in experiencing the benefit of the players we received.

Jackson seems to play 2-3 outstanding games each year & can be spectacular but lacks consistency.

Could he be that guy? Yes.

Could he not? Yes. 

 

20 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I have been thinking about our recent struggles and downhill trajectory since the end of the 2022 season.

We all know that at the end of 2022 we lost Luke Jackson, who was supposed to be the heir to Max Gawn and be a gun forward too.

Did we actually lose even more than we first thought on that trade?

We got two first round picks, one of which became Caleb Windsor (great selection).

However, is that enough?

It's clear now that LJ could potentially be a top 5 player in the AFL for years to come. One of those rare talents (some may say "unicorn") that come to the league once in a generation.

Looking back at how things developed from 2020 going to 2021, would it be fair to say that, in hindsight, it was a bit of a red flag that he only extended one year?

I can't remember if we offered the extension in 2020 or 2021, in any case it now looks strange that we wouldn't put a 3 or 4 year contract in front of LJ. Does it mean that he wasn't willing to take more than one year extension?

Perhaps in an alternate universe if the club perceived that LJ was leaving, it would have been best to force a trade with WC? Say at the end of 2021?

The club had more leverage at the end of 2021 and we were always choosing WC as the trade partner, not Freo. 

Yes it's hindsight and it is crazy to think that we would trade him at the end of 2021, but if him moving to Perth was inevitable... Maybe it wasn't the worst thing to do?

I rest my case that it is strange we wouldn't offer him a longer extension, surely the club wanted that. This can only mean probably he declined a longer offer and we happily accepted that.

Losing Jackson may have been the catalyst to our current hardships.

Sounded like mummy made all the decisions 

30 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Sounded like mummy made all the decisions 

Probably with Freo's influence.

Jackson is the next Nic Nat, take that however you like. The media love him and he will get on the highlights and all Australians but how valuable is he in a W-L sense, I’d say negligible. As to the dees I think we will be better off with the players we got from the trade and the cap space he otherwise would have demanded to stay.

19 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s about time Oliver held up his end of the signed Contract. We played a man down last night….

I think that he's held up his end of the signed contract for a very long time, winning 4 B&Fs (including in our premiership year), 3 AAs and 2 Coaches Awards. 

One bad season doesn't define someone's career, especially someone who has achieved so much already.

He has to play a lot better next season, and if he doesn't, I am sure discussions will be had. But throwing away one of the best players to ever pull on the red and blue because of one bad season, where there are legitimate reasons for his output, is not only bad form it's bad culture. 

Also to say he is not invested is very unfair. You have no idea what he was/is going through off the field. He has battled so many personal demons, and a terrible hand injury that he still needs fixing. Someone who isn't invested is not putting in the hard yards to get themselves mentally fit to play like Clarry has. 

I think he would be feeling far more frustrated than any of us by his form. Do you think he goes home and is happy that he can't perform to the level he's used to? 
But for someone many inside the club thought would struggle to play at all this year, he's played all but one game and that is a massive credit to the hard work he has done off field on himself.

Edited August 12, 20241 yr by Jaded No More

21 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I have been thinking about our recent struggles and downhill trajectory since the end of the 2022 season.

We all know that at the end of 2022 we lost Luke Jackson, who was supposed to be the heir to Max Gawn and be a gun forward too.

Did we actually lose even more than we first thought on that trade?

Losing Jackson may have been the catalyst to our current hardships.

 

It's impossible to judge this until we know how good Tholstrup and Jefferson can be.

Players leave clubs regularly and Jackson wanted to go home, just like Jake Lever and Ed Langdon. I don't know why we need to submit to these "what if" claims.

19 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I think that he's held up his end of the signed contract for a very long time, winning 4 B&Fs (including in our premiership year), 3 AAs and 2 Coaches Awards. 

One bad season doesn't define someone's career, especially someone who has achieved so much already.

He has to play a lot better next season, and if he doesn't, I am sure discussions will be had. But throwing away one of the best players to ever pull on the red and blue because of one bad season, where there are legitimate reasons for his output, is not only bad form it's bad culture. 

Also to say he is not invested is very unfair. You have no idea what he was/is going through off the field. He has battled so many personal demons, and a terrible hand injury that he still needs fixing. Someone who isn't invested is not putting in the hard yards to get themselves mentally fit to play like Clarry has. 

I think he would be feeling far more frustrated than any of us by his form. Do you think he goes home and is happy that he can't perform to the level he's used to? 
But for someone many inside the club thought would struggle to play at all this year, he's played all but one game and that is a massive credit to the hard work he has done off field on himself.

Please don’t lecture me about this subject…

 

21 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I have been thinking about our recent struggles and downhill trajectory since the end of the 2022 season.

We all know that at the end of 2022 we lost Luke Jackson, who was supposed to be the heir to Max Gawn and be a gun forward too.

Did we actually lose even more than we first thought on that trade?

We got two first round picks, one of which became Caleb Windsor (great selection).

However, is that enough?

It's clear now that LJ could potentially be a top 5 player in the AFL for years to come. One of those rare talents (some may say "unicorn") that come to the league once in a generation.

Looking back at how things developed from 2020 going to 2021, would it be fair to say that, in hindsight, it was a bit of a red flag that he only extended one year?

I can't remember if we offered the extension in 2020 or 2021, in any case it now looks strange that we wouldn't put a 3 or 4 year contract in front of LJ. Does it mean that he wasn't willing to take more than one year extension?

Perhaps in an alternate universe if the club perceived that LJ was leaving, it would have been best to force a trade with WC? Say at the end of 2021?

The club had more leverage at the end of 2021 and we were always choosing WC as the trade partner, not Freo. 

Yes it's hindsight and it is crazy to think that we would trade him at the end of 2021, but if him moving to Perth was inevitable... Maybe it wasn't the worst thing to do?

I rest my case that it is strange we wouldn't offer him a longer extension, surely the club wanted that. This can only mean probably he declined a longer offer and we happily accepted that.

Losing Jackson may have been the catalyst to our current hardships.

Really El Diablo you have really just rattled on tracing over all that led to Jacko leaving us. Seriously nothing you have said has made the Jacko situation any different to how it occurred. You don’t appear to have it correctly any way. 
The fact was that when Jacko accepted a ONE year extend he refused a  two year offer. The world knows that and many Dees fans thought this as a possible Red flag then. Fact proved.

Secondly he was not interested in leaving in 2022 after the Flag as he had signed for the extra year. He was never interested in West Coast so matter closed. Dribble talk now really. 

So your post about this Jacko leave  2 years on is nothing new and repetitive. 

Of course we miss him now that he as we all knew would be a very good to great player but your repost is basically irrelevant about then and now. 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Please don’t lecture me about this subject…

 

My apologies your royal highness 🙄

22 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

So you think he's not worth the 1 million dollar a year contract? Nor he'll ever become that type of player.

2 possessions in critical final quarter at home against the cats. Beaten by Stanley in the ruck.

Yes he has some way to go.

His pathetic finals performance in 2022 is what I remember him for. The gf was won by our ground ball engine room of trac clarry and viney (plus many others)

I thought it was great trading by us .Two first and a further 2nd round pick for a player whose reputation was largely forged on half a quarter of football .When he arrived he couldn't clunk a mark and five years on he still has bricks for hands.Not big enough to be a ruckman and not good enough to be a forward.

3 minutes ago, kallangurdemon said:

I thought it was great trading by us .Two first and a further 2nd round pick for a player whose reputation was largely forged on half a quarter of football .When he arrived he couldn't clunk a mark and five years on he still has bricks for hands.Not big enough to be a ruckman and not good enough to be a forward.

Not as subtle as my post. But jvr has those sticky hands that  Luke doesn't have and will be more important now for us

On 11/08/2024 at 14:59, Sir Why You Little said:

Losing LJ was a massive loss, but there was nothing we could do about it…

Disagree in one respect, we could have bargained harder.

If you go back to the thread at the time I was adamant we should get Treacy or at least Meek, who were both in the WAFL at the time and struggling, thrown into the deal.

That would have made losing LJ a lot easier to take.

On 11/08/2024 at 15:12, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Had no intention of staying and some might argue he'd already checked out during his final year with us. Hasn't pulled on the red & blue jumper for almost two years now. Won a flag which will hopefully be his last. Time to let it go. 

Psssf . . . still haven't let go of Matthews ironing our Ellingworth.

Freeo - the place good footballers go to die.

35 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Disagree in one respect, we could have bargained harder.

If you go back to the thread at the time I was adamant we should get Treacy or at least Meek, who were both in the WAFL at the time and struggling, thrown into the deal.

That would have made losing LJ a lot easier to take.

Fair Call, either of those players would have helped us, but LJ was gone sadly, the Club tried very hard to keep him 

36 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Disagree in one respect, we could have bargained harder.

If you go back to the thread at the time I was adamant we should get Treacy or at least Meek, who were both in the WAFL at the time and struggling, thrown into the deal.

That would have made losing LJ a lot easier to take.

If we had managed to get Meek into the deal that would have solved our ruck problems. 

48 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Disagree in one respect, we could have bargained harder.

If you go back to the thread at the time I was adamant we should get Treacy or at least Meek, who were both in the WAFL at the time and struggling, thrown into the deal.

That would have made losing LJ a lot easier to take.

How do you know that we didn’t and Freo didn’t tell us to go away?

At the end of the day Jackson was uncontracted, so we didn’t have a lot of leverage. 
We got maximum draft capital in return. It’s the best we could have hoped for, and at the very least him leaving landed us Windsor, who I believe will be a better long term player. 

Plus perhaps Jefferson will end up as good as Treacy… or Buddy Franklin according to some posters on here 😂

Edited August 12, 20241 yr by Jaded No More

31 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Freeo - the place good footballers go to die.

The purple graveyard?

18 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

How do you know that we didn’t and Freo didn’t tell us to go away?

At the end of the day Jackson was uncontracted, so we didn’t have a lot of leverage. 
We got maximum draft capital in return. It’s the best we could have hoped for, and at the very least him leaving landed us Windsor, who I believe will be a better long term player. 

Plus perhaps Jefferson will end up as good as Treacy… or Buddy Franklin according to some posters on here 😂

Understand that JNM, but Meek was traded the next year so he was gettable at some stage and he also went to a club with a huge young ruckman, so Max wouldn’t have put him off possibly and we might have then saved the embarrassing Grundy fallout.

I would love to know if we rated either player and if we even asked. My gut feel is we didn’t rate either of them and that if true worries me considering our last few trades.

I am wrapt in Caleb and was since his first practice match but i was talking if a player in addition to the picks we got.

We could have said we would deal with WC to get the deal done, but i know, spilt milk.

It just annoys me when I see the players traded into other clubs succeeding.

GuessIi am just a cranky old Dees fan.

Edited August 12, 20241 yr by Redleg

18 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

How do you know that we didn’t and Freo didn’t tell us to go away?

At the end of the day Jackson was uncontracted, so we didn’t have a lot of leverage. 
We got maximum draft capital in return. It’s the best we could have hoped for, and at the very least him leaving landed us Windsor, who I believe will be a better long term player. 

Plus perhaps Jefferson will end up as good as Treacy… or Buddy Franklin according to some posters on here 😂

@picket fence 😆