I don’t think discussing a players personal neurological diagnosis is constructive. Nobody but them can know how it impacts their life.

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:05, Jjrogan said:

Fair points, but of all the possible ways to handle this, pushing him out at his lowest value in a fire sale is embarrassing

Understand, but we can’t go back in time and sell 2021 Clarry, if we want to sell we’re selling 2024 Clarry - there’s no guarantee he’s worth more next year. If the penny hasn’t dropped by now will it ever?

Best case is he stays and sorts his [censored] out but that’s not the likely case..

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:43, Fat Tony said:

I think we are effectively asking the Cats to put up their best offer by today or we will shut it down before the best and fairest. The media firestorm is too much for the club to handle for another 2 weeks. Either the Cats really want him and will pay his wage and give a 2025 first rounder or we will kiss and make up.

If that is the absolute best deal we can extract, a pick which will in all likelihood be pick 15-18 (before academy, f/s etc) then I would be pulling up stumps now. Salary dump aside, it's a terrible outcome for our prospects over the next few years & strengthening a team we will be competing with for success while weakening ourselves.

People might say "But we can use that cash to chase another big name" - to which I would reply who in their right mind would want to play for us at the moment? Unless we offer almost double what any other clubs are to a big fish, all the clubs with stability off the field will land most of the best talent via trade and FA.

I think we are stuck with Clarry now, and must look to get him back to his best to save face. FWIW I love Clarry and think he has it in him to hit his stride again.

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:48, The heart beats true said:

I don’t think discussing a players personal neurological diagnosis is constructive. Nobody but them can know how it impacts their life.

I think too often we play the mental health card in society.

It is obviously a factor, but it is also a crutch for unaccpetable behaviour.

So yes, I'll continue the discussion. :P

Edited October 4, 2024Oct 4 by Adam The God

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:43, Fat Tony said:

I think we are effectively asking the Cats to put up their best offer by today or we will shut it down before the best and fairest. The media firestorm is too much for the club to handle for another 2 weeks. Either the Cats really want him and will pay his wage and give a 2025 first rounder or we will kiss and make up.

What I find amusing in this scenario is why Pert didn't use a "cut out". They're are a load of people he could have used as an honest broker which would have made the attributed leak a lot harder to report.

We are very amateurish it would seem.

Has probably cost 5k members and made sponsors jittery

Go the Storm !!

  On 04/10/2024 at 00:03, titan_uranus said:

2021, eh?

So that’s before we signed him to a 7 year million dollar contract that is now the noose around our necks in trying to do what you both are implying is the right thing to do?

That is the biggest issue and enough for someone to be moved on

Conditions not being put in place on the contract and the length

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:50, RedFox said:

If that is the absolute best deal we can extract, a pick which will in all likelihood be pick 15-18 (before academy, f/s etc) then I would be pulling up stumps now. Salary dump aside, it's a terrible outcome for our prospects over the next few years & strengthening a team we will be competing with for success while weakening ourselves.

People might say "But we can use that cash to chase another big name" - to which I would reply who in their right mind would want to play for us at the moment? Unless we offer almost double what any other clubs are to a big fish, all the clubs with stability off the field will land most of the best talent via trade and FA.

I think we are stuck with Clarry now, and must look to get him back to his best to save face. FWIW I love Clarry and think he has it in him to hit his stride again.

It might look a bad deal to you, but you don't know the full story and have to work with Oliver every day.

  On 04/10/2024 at 00:14, JJJ said:

Im sure this is public knowledge but I’ll repeat it anyway, Clazz has been a load since his first season.

When Brendan McCartney was at the club, he got so sick and tired of Oliver’s antics that he sat him down in his office and showed him a long list of names.

He said, “do you recognise these names?”

”yeah some of them”

McCartney replied, “these are all the people at the club who think you’re a [censored]!!”

McCartney was really good for Oliver in those early days. Oliver was unaware that his behaviour was so impactful to so many people. McCartney was no nonsense and steered Oliver the right direction in terms of professionalism and treatment of others.

I’m not sure I exactly subscribe to the “special treatment” theory, although I’m sure there is an element of this.

But I’m certain that different people respond to different types of feedback differently, and there is no point taking a one-size-fits-all approach to how players are treated.

Like the old fable of the scorpion & the frog, Clarry is who he is and always will be. We either choose to continue to work with it & understand we aren’t all built the same; or we don’t. I think that as a collective the club is still trying to decide. 
And I think I know where Shand stands on this topic.

Hold onto your hats.

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:57, Pennant St Dee said:

That is the biggest issue and enough for someone to be moved on

Conditions not being put in place on the contract and the length

That's definitely true.

I think the idea that we shouldn't have put a huge contract to Clarry is hindsight 20-20 stuff, but that we didn't (seemingly) put in strong legal clauses in that contract is the blight.

 

Melbourne is expected to decide against trading Clayton Oliver, according to SEN’s Sam Edmund.

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:00, Adam The God said:

but that we didn't (seemingly) put in strong legal clauses in that contract is the blight.

Players won't accept them if they are "non standard". IIRC the Pies tried that with De Goey and they got nowhere

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:38, Adam The God said:

As someone with ADD, I would too...

Makes two of us Adam. 

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:14, Garbo said:

So if last year was his final warning and he’s broken there trust again you want to give him another chance just because. Sounds like the kind of poor culture that has got us in this position to start with 

We just don't know this, though. We don't know ALL the facts, and likely won't.

What if it isn't as easy as that? What if it is Pert acting alone? And we just hand over one of the best players we have EVER had, and we only find out later it was a colossal stuff up? We can't reverse trades. It wouldn't be the first time a club, or even our club, has done something stupid. 

As with almost everything, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Clarry has not been perfect, but seems to be trying, as attested to by all at the club throughout the year, but maybe he's offsided someone and this is personal. 

What I am saying (aside from my personal preference to keep him, giving him the benefit of the doubt - as I have seen him improve this year and looks happy and healthy - something to work with in the offseason) is that if we were to trade him, it should not have been done like this, because the poor way the club handles this will give us ZERO for him - we may as well keep him and see what we can do. By all accounts he does not want to leave. We can (in my opinion) deal with him and his 'issues' professionally, as other clubs seem to do without trashing their stars and reputation. Group the boys together, reset and commit together. 

No player is above the club. Agree. And we DO have to fix and improve our culture. But given we don't know everything about what has happened, it doesn't mean we just throw Clarry to the curb, for nothing, assuming it will fix things.

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:07, layzie said:

Makes two of us Adam. 

There's probably a few of us here. To be on Demonland as often as we are, it is a classic hyperfocus story. 🤣

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:48, The heart beats true said:

I don’t think discussing a players personal neurological diagnosis is constructive. Nobody but them can know how it impacts their life.

 

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:52, Adam The God said:

I think too often we play the mental health card in society.

It is obviously a factor, but it is also a crutch for unaccpetable behaviour.

So yes, I'll continue the discussion. :P

The splinters are sore on this fence but you are both 100% correct.

We really can't know what anyone goes through when they face these challenges.

The unfortunate part and reality is that the human race doesn't have a 100% integrity record and people have no doubt used this to their advantage. 

I'm not in any way saying that Clayton has done this but there's always a possibility. 

 

  On 03/10/2024 at 22:11, Tracca said:

Hang on a sec…..

where did you hear we did the call around? That is all driven from the media. There is zero chance Gary pert called anyone about list management decisions.

 

  On 03/10/2024 at 22:21, GCDee said:

This situation is only a [censored] show because of the over the top media reports.

I admire the loyalty to the club, I really do, but don't let it blind you and make you out to be a fool. This constant blaming the media instead of holding leaders at the club accountable reminds me of the Essendon supporters response to their doping program.

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:10, Adam The God said:

There's probably a few of us here. To be on Demonland as often as we are, it is a classic hyperfocus story. 🤣

Amen to that! The ultimate rabbit hole of hyperfocus! 

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:01, Demonland said:

 

Like him or loathe him, Garry speaks the truth. Players like Oliver are very hard to find. From a talent perspective it is an irrecoverable position.

On a side note, I found Tom’s line of questioning and statements about footy clubs to be humorous. The guy has no [censored] idea about the fabric of a sporting organisation. If I were Garry I would’ve told him to back the truck up. And punched him in the mouth…..

Wonder how poor Jimmy, being so passionate  about supporting young people through Reach, would view the treatment of these young men by the club.

 

  On 04/10/2024 at 01:24, BangBnagBang said:

 

Pert is on the list management committee. He sits in the weekly meetings. So what if he rings another contact at another club. Maybe he has a better relationship with them compared to Lamb. Maybe he rang Ned Kelly cause the Pies don’t have a footy manager currently. I've never seen something so over blown than the blow up over Pert contacting another club.

Yep, i bet these calls happen every day, especially heading into trade period. 

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:00, Fat Tony said:

It might look a bad deal to you, but you don't know the full story and have to work with Oliver every day.

From the outside looking in all I saw from Clayton this season was that of somebody who was doing all the team things. He was getting around all of his teammates on the park, revelling in celebrating milestones, re-signings, playing a key role in the Kozzy doco. If he is a nightmare to work with, it certainly didn't appear that way on game day or in the media content put out by the club.

Even as recently in his podcast interview he spoke pretty well and seemed energised to attack this pre-season. Our skipper on radio this morning says he loves him as a player and even more as a person.

  On 04/10/2024 at 00:10, Mach5 said:

Interesting way of phrasing it...

Do the farms get counted?

  On 04/10/2024 at 02:19, Big Gun said:

Wonder how poor Jimmy, being so passionate  about supporting young people through Reach, would view the treatment of these young men by the club.

 

If you are referring to Oliver, he's 27 for christ's sake. 

  On 03/10/2024 at 22:33, bluey said:

Go down to Centrelink champ and look around, you will see a lot of hubris, with similar traits.

What does this even mean. How is that related to the previous comment?