Andrew Wu (The Age) on our DEECLINE

[Jaded No More 68,867]

8 minutes ago, praha said:

I fully expect us to bounce back, make finals, and then lose to Essendon in week 1.

Or you can poke my eyes out with a blunt knife instead 😭

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,928]

He’s absolutely nailed it again. 
Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

We have also effectively “lost” Oliver at this stage. He is currently Half the player he was. Considering what went on last year and over Summer, he should have been playing at Casey till after the Bye. First Game against North. To gain serious form and respect. Playing him in the Seniors all year has been a major backfire. 
The major problem i see, is that we are seeing the same things repeatedly. 
The Coaches are waiting for things to “click”

It’s a huge Gamble, and not the way I would approach things, Maybe now that Tracc has gone down there is no choice, but to implement major structural changes 

We will certainly see if Clarrie can still play, because his workload just got a lot heavier 

[ChaserJ 5,009]

19 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

He’s absolutely nailed it again. 
Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!

Andrew’s analysis is usually pretty good, this one’s no exception.

* disclosure: our kids are in the same class!

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Really not sure why Harmes and Jordan were mentioned.

Not really that relevant to our form this year. Harmes as much as I like him and appreciate his contribution was clearly on the decline with us and JJ never really seemed to get out of second gear.

Bbb has been out of it all for two years and Jackson apart from giving Max a few rests was never a great forward.( Although light years ahead of Petty). And Sparrow is definitely not on the ascendency as this article claims. In fact he's far from it and has been very consistent in low impact. For 4 years now he's been averaging 14 disposals a game. Nowhere near enough given hes not required to tag or play fwd often.

With Tmac and Bbb out of the fwd line we really have only had Fritta and Jvr. The latter I believe will become a very good footballer but in his second year he's still finding his way so there's bound to be inconsistentency.

We have Kozzie but he's been drafted into the middle way too often and compromising his goal tally.

And Fritta is a skilled player who requires space to showcase his skill and finesse. The congestion in our fwd line this year has been like Sydney peak hour traffic.

As mentioned pre pies game, our named six fwds scored an  average of less than 40 points. We just can't kick winning scores. Plus the inaccuracy is woeful.

In 2021 we got almost 100 goals out of the combination of Jackson, Bbb, Tmac and Spargo.

Also Fritta, Kozzie, Nibbler and Tracca are all down a large amount of their goal tallies this year from 21.

Petty is just making up the numbers and without looking at any stats Id wager that there is not another team gifting 11 games to a fwd for a total 3 goal haul.

We have relied on our Python like defence in stopping other teams from scoring but eventually this was bound to fall apart.

You can't win games with solid back lines. You need to score.

And this year our midfield has fallen away as well.

Oliver has played a couple of good games and I'm mindful of being gracious with him because he has been one of the best midfielders we have ever had. But this year he is having a well below par season.  And his erratic disposal hasn't helped when he has gone and gotten the pill.

Jack Viney is having a below par  year as well,  with five less disposals per game than his norm.

Thankfully we have had Max and CP5 still going strong but who knows how long Tracca will be out for.

The reality is after winning a flag the club has been for the most part very poor in its recruiting.

We have acquired players who were struggling at other clubs and who now struggle at ours.

To say we lack depth is an understatement. Imagine if we had the injury runs some other clubs have endured? Imagine if Max went down. Or Fritta.( He Had a couple of shockers but he's still booted over two goals a game).

The truth is we are struggling to cobble a side together even  without a lot of injuries.

How did we go from our 21 flag side with at least half a dozen competitive enough to just miss out to a team this year where half a dozen playing shouldn't be, week in week out? We were also very very lucky with our lack of injury in 21 so our list was never really seriously challenged.

No doubt about it, the club did exceptionally well building their list that won the 2021 cup but it stopped building in 2020 pretty much.

For four years we have been treading water, plugging holes, bridging gaps and buying excuses ( plus a few other cliches I can't think of at this very moment).

But it is true. The list in 21 was exceptional and all the stars aligned for all the stars to shine.

Truthfully e may not have batted too deep in 21 but everything still worked out. Rarey did we have to drop players each week and form and consistency reigned supreme.

This year we can't afford to drop anyone and we care seeing injured, tired and consistently out of form players in the first.

And some of our choices of recruiting have been mind boggling with not a few even getting games.

All credit to those responsible at the Mfc for building and developing such a great list to finally bring home a flag. Shame on them for letting in deteriorate to where we are today.

And let's not kid ourselves it's going to get worse. We are witnessing the beginning of the end. With Tracca injured we now won't make finals. 

Back to cliches, I hope we bite the bullet at year's end and make a clean sweep of the list where necessary. And especially stand firm in not accepting mediocre players from other clubs anymore.

 

 

Edited June 12 by leave it to deever

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,685]

We have money in our cap this off season, i hope the Tim Lamb's of this world are busy try to attract talent to our club.

No excuses not doing so.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Really not sure why Harmes and Jordan were mentioned.

Not really that relevant to our form this year. Harmes as much as I like him and appreciate his contribution was clearly on the decline with us and JJ never really seemed to get out of second gear.

Bbb has been out of it all for two years and Jackson apart from giving Max a few rests was never a great forward.( Although light years ahead of Petty). And Sparrow is definitely not on the ascendency as this article claims. In fact he's far from it and has been very consistent in low impact. For 4 years now he's been averaging 14 disposals a game. Nowhere near enough given hes not required to tag or play fwd often.

With Tmac and Bbb out of the fwd line we really have only had Fritta and Jvr. The latter I believe will become a very good footballer but in his second year he's still finding his way so there's bound to be inconsistentency.

We have Kozzie but he's been drafted into the middle way too often and compromising his goal tally.

And Fritta is a skilled player who requires space to showcase his skill and finesse. The congestion in our fwd line this year has been like Sydney peak hour traffic.

As mentioned pre pies game, our named six fwds scored an  average of less than 40 points combined each game. We just can't kick winning scores. Plus the inaccuracy is woeful.

In 2021 we got almost 100 goals out of the combination of Jackson, Bbb, Tmac and Spargo.

Also Fritta, Kozzie, Nibbler and Tracca are all down a large amount of their goal tallies this year from 21.

Petty is just making up the numbers and without looking at any stats Id wager that there is not another team gifting 11 games to a fwd for a total 3 goal haul.

We have relied on our Python like defence in stopping other teams from scoring but eventually this was bound to fall apart.

You can't win games with solid back lines. You need to score.

And this year our midfield has fallen away as well.

Oliver has played a couple of good games and I'm mindful of being gracious with him because he has been one of the best midfielders we have ever had. But this year he is having a well below par season.  And his erratic disposal hasn't helped when he has gone and gotten the pill.

Jack Viney is having a below par  year as well,  with five less disposals per game than his norm.

Thankfully we have had Max and CP5 still going strong but who knows how long Tracca will be out for.

The reality is after winning a flag the club has been for the most part very poor in its recruiting.

We have acquired players who were struggling at other clubs and who now struggle at ours.

To say we lack depth is an understatement. Imagine if we had the injury runs some other clubs have endured? Imagine if Max went down. Or Fritta.( He Had a couple of shockers but he's still booted over two goals a game).

The truth is we are struggling to cobble a side together this year, even without a lot of injuries.

How did we go from our 21 flag side with at least half a dozen competitive enough to just miss out to a team this year where half a dozen playing shouldn't be, week in week out? We were also very very lucky with our lack of injury in 21 so our list was never really seriously challenged.

No doubt about it, the club did exceptionally well building the list that won the 2021 cup but it stopped building in 2020 pretty much.

For four years we have been treading water, plugging holes, bridging gaps and buying excuses ( plus a few other cliches I can't think of at this very moment).

But it is true. The list in 21 was exceptional and all the stars aligned for all the stars to shine.

Truthfully we may not have batted too deep in 21 but everything still worked out. Rarey did we have to drop players each week and form and consistency reigned supreme.

This year we can't afford to drop anyone and we are seeing injured, tired and consistently out of form players in the firsts.

And some of our choices of recruiting have been mind boggling with not a few even getting games.

All credit to those responsible at the Mfc for building and developing such a great list to finally bring home a flag. Shame on them for letting in deteriorate to where we are today.

And let's not kid ourselves it's going to get worse. We are witnessing the beginning of the end. With Tracca injured we now won't make finals. 

Back to cliches, I hope we bite the bullet at year's end and make a clean sweep of the list where necessary. And especially stand firm in not accepting mediocre players from other clubs anymore.

 

 

Edited June 12 by leave it to deever

[Sydee 4,385]

51 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Was just thinking about Carlton last year too. 

They were bottom 4 this time last year, and as they kept losing each week the acid was poured on them and they didn’t respond. 

But they got a soft kill vs Gold Coast and then found their passion and identity again. 

I know plenty on here will say it’s pointless to compare with other sides in previous seasons but I do use them last year as an example of how, with the right application, terrible form can be turned around (and we have 3 more wins at this point of the season than they did).

I struggle with the CFC comparison the reality is that with no Trac, Lever, Brayshaw, Smith , unfit or hopelessly out of form Petty, Oliver, Viney, BBB, etc our list is nowhere near theirs atm 

Our once celebrated midfield now looks one of the comps worst , our forwards are inconsistent or just not threatening and our backline is very suspect if/when the ball hits the ground

Hard to see this team really threatening any time soon 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,685]

20 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Really not sure why Harmes and Jordan were mentioned.

Not really that relevant to our form this year. Harmes as much as I like him and appreciate his contribution was clearly on the decline with us and JJ never really seemed to get out of second gear.

Bbb has been out of it all for two years and Jackson apart from giving Max a few rests was never a great forward.( Although light years ahead of Petty). And Sparrow is definitely not on the ascendency as this article claims. In fact he's far from it and has been very consistent in low impact. For 4 years now he's been averaging 14 disposals a game. Nowhere near enough given hes not required to tag or play fwd often.

With Tmac and Bbb out of the fwd line we really have only had Fritta and Jvr. The latter I believe will become a very good footballer but in his second year he's still finding his way so there's bound to be inconsistentency.

We have Kozzie but he's been drafted into the middle way too often and compromising his goal tally.

And Fritta is a skilled player who requires space to showcase his skill and finesse. The congestion in our fwd line this year has been like Sydney peak hour traffic.

As mentioned pre pies game, our named six fwds scored an  average of less than 40 points. We just can't kick winning scores. Plus the inaccuracy is woeful.

In 2021 we got almost 100 goals out of the combination of Jackson, Bbb, Tmac and Spargo.

Also Fritta, Kozzie, Nibbler and Tracca are all down a large amount of their goal tallies this year from 21.

Petty is just making up the numbers and without looking at any stats Id wager that there is not another team gifting 11 games to a fwd for a total 3 goal haul.

We have relied on our Python like defence in stopping other teams from scoring but eventually this was bound to fall apart.

You can't win games with solid back lines. You need to score.

And this year our midfield has fallen away as well.

Oliver has played a couple of good games and I'm mindful of being gracious with him because he has been one of the best midfielders we have ever had. But this year he is having a well below par season.  And his erratic disposal hasn't helped when he has gone and gotten the pill.

Jack Viney is having a below par  year as well,  with five less disposals per game than his norm.

Thankfully we have had Max and CP5 still going strong but who knows how long Tracca will be out for.

The reality is after winning a flag the club has been for the most part very poor in its recruiting.

We have acquired players who were struggling at other clubs and who now struggle at ours.

To say we lack depth is an understatement. Imagine if we had the injury runs some other clubs have endured? Imagine if Max went down. Or Fritta.( He Had a couple of shockers but he's still booted over two goals a game).

The truth is we are struggling to cobble a side together without a lot of injuries.

How did we go from our 21 flag side with at least half a dozen competitive enough to just miss out to a team this year where half a dozen playing shouldn't be, week in week out? We were also very very lucky with our lack of injury in 21 so our list was never really seriously challenged.

No doubt about it, the club did exceptionally well building their list that won the 2021 cup but it stopped building in 2020 pretty much.

For four years we have been treading water, plugging holes, bridging gaps and buying excuses ( plus a few other cliches I can't think of at this very moment).

But it is true. The list in 21 was exceptional and all the stars aligned for all the stars to shine.

Truthfully e may not have batted too deep in 21 but everything still worked out. Rarey did we have to drop players each week and form and consistency reigned supreme.

This year we can't afford to drop anyone and we care seeing injured, tired and consistently out of form players in the first.

And some of our choices of recruiting have been mind boggling with not a few even getting games.

All credit to those responsible at the Mfc for building and developing such a great list to finally bring home a flag. Shame on them for letting in deteriorate to where we are today.

And let's not kid ourselves it's going to get worse. We are witnessing the beginning of the end. With Tracca injured we now won't make finals. 

Back to cliches, I hope we bite the bullet at year's end and make a clean sweep of the list where necessary. And especially stand firm in not accepting mediocre players from other clubs anymore.

 

 

We need to bring in 4 players in the trade off season that are recognised contributiors to their current teams, but aren't getting proper coin.

Easier said than done but these conversations on our greatest weaknesses surely would have taken place already.

*Key Forward to replace BBB

*Midfielder to replace Gus.

*Defender to replace Thommo

*Small/medium tackling forward 

*Speed,Speed,Speed.(not the chemical one either)

With our top pick in the draft use as part of a blockbuster trade for something we actually need i.e KPF.

If the KPF isn't available just pick up another midfielder with power or Small/medium Forward with speed and tackling power.

Edited June 12 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 minute ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

We need to bring in 4 players in the trade off season that are recognised contributiors to their current teams.

*Key Forward to replace BBB

*Midfielder to replace Gus.

*Defender to replace Thommo

*Small/medium tackling forward 

With our top pick in the draft use as part of a blockbuster trade for something we actually need i.e KPF.

If the KPF isn't available just pick up another midfielder with power or Small/medium Forward with speed and tackling power.

Was thinking exactly the same thing.

Definitely need at least one experienced big bodied forward for Tmac.

Plus another one with some rucking ability. ( This one could be young if necessary).

And Tommo and Tmac are getting long in the tooth so yep.

We are a man down with Gus out so he needs replacement but I'd add we really need two or three more mids. Id be inclined to move Sparrow on.

And another small forward wouldn't hurt because I'm not sure where Spargo is injury while and for me Laurie hasn't shown much.

I also reckon the jury is still out on Chin. Last year he started with all guns blazing and slowed mid season. Seems to be the same this year.

Probably need to invest in another young key ruck.

 

 

 

 

[jnrmac 20,055]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Goodwin is not alone in all of this - his coaches need to step up too, and offer strategies and advice

Unless there's any issue there......

I'd being favour of Goodwin moving back up into the coaching box.

Whilst it may have been a good idea when the players were younger and needed more immediate feedback etc I think the time is for the coaches to be together to strategise game day and be more responsive to bad starts, run-ons etc.

Choco can handle the bench but the bigger issues are being sheeted home to the coaching staff - maybe its the messaging getting confused - who knows. 

I would be trying it though.

 

[RedFox 510]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Was just thinking about Carlton last year too. 

They were bottom 4 this time last year, and as they kept losing each week the acid was poured on them and they didn’t respond. 

But they got a soft kill vs Gold Coast and then found their passion and identity again. 

I know plenty on here will say it’s pointless to compare with other sides in previous seasons but I do use them last year as an example of how, with the right application, terrible form can be turned around (and we have 3 more wins at this point of the season than they did).

Except we are now without Petracca for most likely 6-8 weeks. They were full strength

[SFebes 4,884]

I’m convinced Goodwin has lost the players now after breaking it all down. On a side note, even players recalled this year after poor performances at Casey or straight back into the seniors must be shocked they’re even playing. Ie; BBB, Laurie, Hunter, McAdam, Billings, Petty, Turner, Tholstrup, to name a few. It is desperation by Goodwin and sets a bad example.
 

Also, play players to their strengths, Petty and Turner aren’t AFL forwards! I also think it’s a combination of poor coaching and off field dramas catching up with them. People talk about the Coll and Frem losses, but I was at the WCE game and it was appalling to watch as well. We hear about learnings, reviews, bouncing back but all I ever hear is spin. 

Edited June 12 by SFebes

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

6 minutes ago, SFebes said:

I’m convinced Goodwin has lost the players now after breaking it all down. On a side note, even players recalled this year after poor performances at Casey or straight back into the seniors must be shocked they’re even playing. Ie; BBB, Laurie, Hunter, McAdam, Billings, Petty, Turner, Tholstrup, to name a few. It is desperation by Goodwin and sets a bad example.
 

Also, play players to their strengths, Petty and Turner aren’t AFL forwards! I also think it’s a combination of poor coaching and off field dramas catching up with them. People talk about the Coll and Frem losses, but I was at the WCE game and it was appalling to watch as well. We hear about learnings, reviews, bouncing back but all I ever hear is spin. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Clayton Oliver/Joel Smith situations are all playing a role as well. Clarry in particular, i think players might feel he was let back in too easily without perhaps having to earn it properly? 

[binman 42,683]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Was just thinking about Carlton last year too. 

They were bottom 4 this time last year, and as they kept losing each week the acid was poured on them and they didn’t respond. 

But they got a soft kill vs Gold Coast and then found their passion and identity again. 

I know plenty on here will say it’s pointless to compare with other sides in previous seasons but I do use them last year as an example of how, with the right application, terrible form can be turned around (and we have 3 more wins at this point of the season than they did).

Last year at exactly this point in the season (after round 13) the Swans were 13th, Giants 14th and Blues 15th.

They finished the home and away season in 8th, 7th and 5th respectively.

The swans went out week one, by a goal to the blues.

And of course the blues and giants made prelims (and the giants were very unlucky not to make the GF)

[Little Richard 6,262]

3 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Pipe dream. Id encourage everyone to brace themselves for a turbulent 2nd half of the season. 

The players are 1-2 losses away from completely checking out. Once finals become mathematically improbable, watch the freefall. Our soft underbelly will be exposed. 

I think we'll bounce back a little and beat North and WC fairly comfortably, but the rest of the season is looking dire.

[jumbo returns 6,740]

25 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I'd being favour of Goodwin moving back up into the coaching box.

Whilst it may have been a good idea when the players were younger and needed more immediate feedback etc I think the time is for the coaches to be together to strategise game day and be more responsive to bad starts, run-ons etc.

Choco can handle the bench but the bigger issues are being sheeted home to the coaching staff - maybe its the messaging getting confused - who knows. 

I would be trying it though.

 

It's working for Justin Longmuir

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,074]

What's this?...

 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,074]

Chin up.

 

 

Too soon?

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,928]

1 hour ago, ChaserJ said:

Andrew’s analysis is usually pretty good, this one’s no exception.

* disclosure: our kids are in the same class!

Agree Chaser. Very measured, balanced and respectfully critical. Unlike The Ox who has gone woooshka, and he’s not wrong either. Just more invested and passionate.

[58er 6,395]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree with everything about this.

Well summed up.

I think it’s time to acknowledge that our troubles start  from the centre of the ground at the bounce. 
 

Despite the AAA flavour of Gawn Viney Trac and Clarry we have been consistently losing clearances and ball retention there.

I am staggered and amazed that the combined brains of this group of players are so bereft of footy smarts and knowledge that this has gone on for so long. 

Now who is the ruck and midfield coaches?

Again the name Stafford rears its head. Not certain who has filled  in for Ooze this year Is it Mini?
 

Nevertheless Stafford again is in the frame for responsibility it would seem. It really looks like the bloke is a one trick pony. We have struggled with him as forward coach and now the midfield is blatantly underperforming for the team. Again no connection really for domination by our mids from our rucks. 

Yet Maxy has had a stellar AAA year but all the others have to be honest been patchy with Trac needing to be forward due to that  other Stafford disaster for 3 years our forward line. 

Ultimate responsibility is of course is with Goody and another PlanA but no Plan B or C in the kitbag. 
 

2021 is no longer relevant other than for our history and proud drought breaking performance over 25 weeks. And the associated lift in respect and Club fixturing and  marketing and yes culture improvement. 

The undeniable is unfortunately that since that Entrecôte affair in June 2022 nothing elite has been done in results and our Club while not as much as the press would have it have struggled to be in a positive frame of mind consistently over this period. 

Amazingly the downfall has occurred after one of our best wins in our four years over the Cats even if their form has also disintegrated badly at the rate of knots.

Neither us nor them look overly like causing huge damage in 2024 even if we limp ( or smash) our way into the 8 or unlikely top4. Even a year like this very even one is slipping away and our % is a disaster. 

How we approach this last half is much up to the Coaches and FD. But we have been making simple things complicated it seems and mixed messaging plus general unwanted tension in our team makes for an unhealthy existence.

In 1987 1998 and 2000 we overcame poor form mid season but in 1965 and 1971 the die was cast and we performed without any spirit or confidence to miss Finals easily. 

Goody and Co now have to really earn their keep to save this year being wasted . It may also prove that our list and also our depth has been vastly overrated.

Without Trac this is a great test for many of our lesser lights and also our leaders plus our ability to resolve and perhaps revive our strong brand with updated tweaks in a different time of the code.

What would RDB or Norm Smith do to stop the rot. 

 

 

[Older demon 2,741]

At the moment the team isn't at its best to put it mildly. I would like to point out that look at the Swans record is a fair benchmark. Having waited 72 years between flags they broke through in 2005 and again in 2012. That is 2 flags in 18 years. As a measure of their success they have rarely missed finals since 1996 and in recent times on missed out in 2019-20. This focus on our once-in-a-lifetime list is flawed. In 2022 & 23 we were cruelled by injury. At the moment I think we are seeing a transition and hope we make finals but atm we aren't a premiership contender.

Flags are mighty hard to win and my aims this season wold be to be competitive, not get smashed, bring in the next generation to play the Melbourne way and maybe jag a flag in the near future. Geelong has had sustained success but despite this Scott has only won 2 flags.

After a 57 year wait I am enjoying winning more but have lowered my expectations rations a bit.

[demon3165 2,711]

Think people are missing the real point we are a one paced midfield and teams know that, we are also poorly skilled by hand and and foot and players who reaction times under pressure is poor, we got away with in 21 going from contest to contest lock it in until we won it now teams move it to the outside as soon as they can.

The pies showed that they moved it from one back pocket to to another as quick as they could as they always had a player waiting to create the loose man. If you watch the replay you can see the pies always have 2 player from their forward line no further than the 50 metre arc as they have space to run into where we have all players up near the contest and struggle to get back and then have the pies backmen running forward into the contest and our players running into the contest.

As I have said in another post Goodwin either goes back to 21 football and try to win enough games to make finals or makes some bold changes, inject some pace into the midfield by positional changes, play Oliver like DeGoey some half forward line and some midfield etc.

As for Max he is the best around the ground ruckman but not a great tap ruckman and what was done by the pies coaching staff was brilliant and other teams have done that as well and we let it just keep going on and on.

Those blaming Petty , Turner and co they are up against it from the start balls just bombed in leads ignored ball kicked in to low or high it's called dysfunctional. As for the backline they do pretty well considering the amount of ball that went into it and that shows if the engine room misfires the process breaks down

I am sure the break will be a good thing as the spotlight is not on this week but now it's up to the coaches go to the past or be daring and look to the future.

[58er 6,395]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We have lost A Grade Players since ‘21, and have replaced them with VFL standard Players 

 Name names please Such generality is not assisting your argument. 

[dice 697]

18 minutes ago, 58er said:

 Name names please Such generality is not assisting your argument. 

Grundy - best ruckman in the league
Jackson - best 2nd ruckman/forward
Jordon - one of the best taggers

And Bedford, Hunt and Harmes are all better than Billings, Hunter and McAdam