POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[beelzebub 23,383]

13 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Is Clayton Oliver the issue?

Just one i suspect

[jumbo returns 6,741]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Just one i suspect

Interesting - just started a fat, long term contract

This could get ugly

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

12 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Staggering that Goodwin put even the slightest positive spin on that game.

The Pies had an absurd amount of gun players out and only got 15 touches from far and away their best player. That quite frankly should’ve been a 6 goal win to us based on played availability but instead the game was over at 3 qtr time.

 

a) Players clearly shot confidence wise, Goody ain’t going to come out and slate them in the press conference just to twist the confidence knife

b) The players got a fair rev up after the west coast performance, it doesn’t work repeatedly

c)A 6 goal win based on what exactly players out, have you watched Collingwood since Round 3 it’s a game plan they are invested into  it’s not about who is in or out it’s a process and backing it

d) We tried to change how we play because the FD hit the panic button after 2 finals straight set exits, they threw the baby out with the bathwater and went to far away from our DNA, and IMO players lost confidence in that style of play being to foreign from what they were used to.

There’s also the other issues of Smith, Oliver and Brayshaw’s retirement.  I think we got an early them against us boost from Oliver returning but that well has dried up

[rolling fog 1,208]

SEN just reported the following re Trac:

- Had surgery overnight for four broken ribs

- Lacerations to the spleen 

- Small lung puncture

 

Gods speed Trac. Very interesting to see how this plays out re the decision to put him back on.

[rolling fog 1,208]

1 minute ago, rolling fog said:

SEN just reported the following re Trac:

- Had surgery overnight for four broken ribs

- Lacerations to the spleen 

- Small lung puncture

 

Gods speed Trac. Very interesting to see how this plays out re the decision to put him back on.

 

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

4 minutes ago, rolling fog said:

SEN just reported the following re Trac:

- Had surgery overnight for four broken ribs

- Lacerations to the spleen 

- Small lung puncture

 

Gods speed Trac. Very interesting to see how this plays out re the decision to put him back on.

Bugger. A real unnecessary knee from Moore and horrible kick forward that just sat on the players heads too.

Edited June 11 by At the break of Gawn

[rolling fog 1,208]

34 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Bugger. A real unnecessary knee from Moore and horrible kick forward that just sat on the players heads too.

Hindsight is great, but incredibly reckless to put him back on. 

Edited June 11 by rolling fog

[BoldSirBrian 39]

One Trick Ponies !

[binman 43,755]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

I think our game plan has become archaic

Crash n bash takes a huge toll on an ageing body

Look at Freo - they refused to engage with the pile on and ran and ran and ran and ran red rum redrum redrum

I think a reasonable question is whether the kamikaze, hard core training regime Burgess introduced - and Selwyn has carried on - is sustainable long term.

I have heard many players over the last few years, and Burgess himself, say we train harder than any other team and that our training is often harder than games (which I find hard to believe to be honest).

A hard model for senior players to deal with for multiple seasons - and super hard for young players, particularly if there is any drop off by the core senior leaders.

Is it a coincidence that the crows, who looked the fittest side in 2022-23 looks one of the least fit this year?

I'm hoping, perhaps against hope, the deskes have looked to dial that intensity down this season (with the goal of ramping up closer to finals), which might help explain our clear lack of run and cleary being miles off optimal fitness.

[Demonland 73,140]

 

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Anyone listen to SEN morning with Garry & Tim? Interesting hearing that Tim Watson said he watched May quite closely and said he looked disinterested and lazy at times. He basically said he doesn’t seem to want to chase a leading player, doesn’t like playing on anyone mobile and just wants the ball in long so he can intercept. I find this really disappointing given he supposed to be a leader of this club.

With Champion Data rating his season as his lowest ever, I wonder if the cliff is now for him? Anyone know when his contract expires?

Edited June 11 by At the break of Gawn

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

11 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

So if Oliver goes and stands on the other side, does his opponent stay in that hitting area or go with him?

I honestly don't understand this stuff, surely you are letting the opposition disrupt you without any adjustment.

Edited June 11 by Jerry Lundergard

[von 1,572]

Given we now have no midfield with Viney and Oliver’s form and petraccas injury. Given we have no on field spirit or desire. Given we look like our system is broken. Do we now try and maximise our draft hand for the offseason. 

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,734]

14 hours ago, watchtheeyes said:

Kudos for the very balanced (touch optimistic) post.

I totally agree that confidence is a massive factor in the game, and we’re totally lacking it. It makes players introspective, single minded, hesitant etc.. If manifests in missed kicks, missed shots, reactive at clearance etc. The flip side (ie. Collingwood) is instinct, confidence in team mates, high difficulty execution etc.

The great challenge is.. how do you fix that? Incredibly difficult when the team is sliding.. and if Goodwin manages to achieve it, then he’ll deserve the big bucks.

Well you don’t fix it per se, you play through it & eventually it shifts!

 

Im not optimistic, im purely basing this on fact that basically EVERY single team has a bad 3-5WK period across last 24m, and some longer than others — but without drastic list changes or new coach etc all of those sides have worked through it, inc Collingwood whom when healthy were 0-4! No they’re bagged up and WINNING!

Cats, Blues, Lions, Swans, Dogs, Bombers You name it, sure the Freo loss was an outlier but that’s what can happen fast in modern footy when one team steamrolls another mid-game and has a run of conversion and luck, they’re able to compound and pile-on fast! Doesn’t mean we’ll 💯 turn it around but it does help offer perspective — with basic conv yest could’ve been a while diff game, not talking expected score, I’m talking purely based on if we’d taken some chances, Trac didn’t get a car-crash type injury, etc we might’ve gotten some confidence and made a run!

Time will tell, but green-shoots WERE there to see yesterday that’s just a fact. I’m as angry and frustrated as anyone, but what other options have I got? Wallow? No thanks.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,734]

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Since our flag we've played the Pies 5 times and lost 4 times to them in exactly the same way every time! They started kicking some goals out their [censored] towards the end but when the game was still live they were waltzing it in off rebound from turnovers. Today we had no names like Harvey Harrison, some guy named Krueger and spuds like Hoskin-Elliott slotting them through.

Effort was [censored] from first bounce, I'm not buying this "effort was ok" garbage.

I’m not disagreeing, it’s bloody horrific and aggravating but it is what it is — we should of beaten them in the finals and we DIDNT and nothing so we’ve every gonna change or rectify that in our bleeding hearts..

 

no names in ROLE PLAYER slots, not in important posts — Harrison has looked a player for weeks, as has several others they’ve brought in, like many WE have brought in — but their system execution was just far superior and they kicked goals from EVERYWHERE yet again.. why? Cus they’re CONFIDENT!!! u think it happens weekly by chance??? Go watch their last 200 goals, their goal-kicking is INCREDIBLE 

[Nascent 9,283]

29 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Anyone listen to SEN morning with Garry & Tim? Interesting hearing that Tim Watson said he watched May quite closely and said he looked disinterested and lazy at times. He basically said he doesn’t seem to want to chase a leading player, doesn’t like playing on anyone mobile and just wants the ball in long so he can intercept. I find this really disappointing given he supposed to be a leader of this club.

With Champion Data rating his season as his lowest ever, I wonder if the cliff is now for him? Anyone know when his contract expires?

Gut feel is he is still playing injured. The importance of Lever to allow them both to play effectively can't be understated as well. But he has been poor and also made some uncharacteristic simple errors.

[Nascent 9,283]

5 hours ago, BDA said:

 

We'll see where we end up at the end of the season, but it looks like we are well off contending. that being the case i hope the club make the decision to get the rebuild underway and set us up for our next window. Tassie coming into the comp so we'll have to contend with a compromised draft soon. It has to be a factor in our decision making.

This part worries me. Do we go all out and recruit for another flag while Gawn and May still have some good footy in them in '25?

If we don't get it right we might end up like West Coast but without access to the top end of the draft.

[adonski 12,427]

What's our win loss record when we only go in with 2 tall defenders 

[monoccular 17,573]

17 hours ago, Zimma said:

What really was of concern was players coming in and playing their role. The turnover of players at years end, Bradshaw and Smith also no longer we just don’t have the cattle to replace roles. Zero depth.  Our offseason was horrible also. Not just the disruptions but Petty and Oliver no preseason and both are barely in our best 22 at present showing!
Don’t understand the decision to plays Billings as the sub surely Woey is a better player here.

We have been on the list down three versatile players all season, one great (Gus), one very good (Melk) and one OK who was just starting to establish himself (Smith) and could cover many options.   Also for multiple reasons one of our hardest working mids (Oliver) has been trying hard but not up to anywhere his norm.  Spargo, love him as a creative clean small linking forward or not, hasn’t been there.  And our “depth” players, Billings and Laurie have been pretty ordinary.  
Windsor has been a bright light, but they don’t seem interested in Kolt, AMW or Fullarton.    Even Sestan, who with Kolt is a strong looking payer doesn’t get a look in.

Surely it is time to try a change.  Recycling isn’t working. 

1 hour ago, rolling fog said:

Hindsight is great, but incredibly reckless to put him back on. 

As you say, hindsight is great  Do you want us to get a CT scanner in the rooms?

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

 

Can we recruit Jeff White as ruck / clearance coach please, asap. 

47 minutes ago, von said:

Given we now have no midfield with Viney and Oliver’s form and petraccas injury. Given we have no on field spirit or desire. Given we look like our system is broken. Do we now try and maximise our draft hand for the offseason. 

Firstly we need to try out those performing at Casey NB Kolt, Sestan, AMW, in lieu of Billings and Laurie, who should never be in the same MFC team, and if May is injured Tomlinson especially if Lever gets back after the bye. 

[ChaserJ 5,157]

34 minutes ago, Nascent said:

This part worries me. Do we go all out and recruit for another flag while Gawn and May still have some good footy in them in '25?

If we don't get it right we might end up like West Coast but without access to the top end of the draft.

I’d be very hesitant about burning capital to go ‘chips in’ now. Too many gaps to plug. It’s not ‘just a key forward’ now. 

I’d say we need a goalsneak to support Koz, some midfield class (if not grunt as well), speed and ball use off half back and a successor for May. 

That’s a project. I’m not even sure what our timeline is now. Maybe, with some luck we can extend a bit longer, like Geelong, but we need a lot to go right.

[Nascent 9,283]

1 minute ago, ChaserJ said:

I’d be very hesitant about burning capital to go ‘chips in’ now. Too many gaps to plug. It’s not ‘just a key forward’ now. 

I’d say we need a goalsneak to support Koz, some midfield class (if not grunt as well), speed and ball use off half back and a successor for May. 

That’s a project. I’m not even sure what our timeline is now. Maybe, with some luck we can extend a bit longer, like Geelong, but we need a lot to go right.

This is where I sit as well.

[JJJ 1,313]

We need another potential A-grade mid with 70 games under their belt. 

But why would they choose us? Our trajectory is going the wrong way.

If I were an up and coming player I’d look at Hawthorn before us.

[Pipefitter 2,168]

3 minutes ago, JJJ said:

We need another potential A-grade mid with 70 games under their belt. 

But why would they choose us? Our trajectory is going the wrong way.

If I were an up and coming player I’d look at Hawthorn before us.

We needed to do this last off season. Where did the Grundy money go?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,290]

2 hours ago, Tolstoys Nudge said:

I’m not disagreeing, it’s bloody horrific and aggravating but it is what it is — we should of beaten them in the finals and we DIDNT and nothing so we’ve every gonna change or rectify that in our bleeding hearts..

 

no names in ROLE PLAYER slots, not in important posts — Harrison has looked a player for weeks, as has several others they’ve brought in, like many WE have brought in — but their system execution was just far superior and they kicked goals from EVERYWHERE yet again.. why? Cus they’re CONFIDENT!!! u think it happens weekly by chance??? Go watch their last 200 goals, their goal-kicking is INCREDIBLE 

They get confidence by slotting the easy ones early, running into an open 50 and banging then in from 20 out puts scoreboard pressure on and creates confidence.

Yes, role players who come in to a system and perform. That was us the last couple of years but things have been allowed to deteriorate and now the system is broken and the role players just look like spuds. Whose fault is that? Goodwin? Line coaches? Recruitment and development? The players? A combination of the above? Whatever it is it needs to be identified and fixed ASAP otherwise the club will be left to look extremely stupid talking about wanting to be perennial contenders like Geelong and Sydney and end up being one hit wonders back to the doldrums.

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

13 hours ago, Bowserpower said:

I'm disappointed that we didn't go after Maynard more. Do they even remember who Gus is anymore?

I’m disappointed they didn’t go after the ball or the player with the ball more.