25 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

I love the way critics identify a problem and never offer a solution. Who Derm, and how?

You can only buy what people are selling. 

it's breathtakingly lazy from derm, although not surprising. the real story out of this game is that a swans midfield, minus Mills, Adams, and Parker smashed us at contested ball, clearances and ALL of the stats our mids pride themselves on. I don't see that happening too many times this season and would suggest the dogs mids are going to cop the response. 

3 minutes ago, chookrat said:

The muppets in the Media such as Dermie tend to forget that we've had substantial periods in the past 3 seasons where our forward line has functioned well. Even last year in towards the back end of the season our forward line was working very well with Jake Melksham, JVR, a hobbling Fritta along with Kossie and Trac as our key target at stages. Continuity has been our biggest issue which is the same problem other clubs who pay $$$ for marque key forwards, e.g. Richmond with Lynch, who are always injured and cant string games together.

Bingo spot on. 
Interesting to read Pies supporters bagging their team after one game. Comments around injuries, a defence hopeless without Murphy and Howe, a hopeless forward in Ash Johnson and new recruit Lachie Schultz, a lack of connection into the forward zone etc etc. Sound familiar? 
Hmm, a little perspective required. 

11 hours ago, demon3165 said:

I along with others have been banging on about this for the last two years hope someone is reading this at Melbourne.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/03/09/they-were-impotent-why-do-melbourne-refuse-to-address-their-biggest-flaw/

He must have been reading Demonland for the “Last Two Years”, why doesn’t he tell us something we don’t already know…….!!!

1 minute ago, rjay said:

If you think the FD don't know this and haven't tried to fix the problem you've got rocks in your head.

Every one can bang on about it as much as they want but what is the answer.

You can't make an in contract player just decide to come to us.

The only proven out of contract KPF available over the last few years was BBB and we got him.

Some other contracts have come up but their clubs know their value and have made it near impossible to pry them away.

 

Here is the thing, people only read and see one thing but not the rest of the article, if people here don't think we have had a forward line issue even after Goodwin has admitted it for the last two years then remove the red and blue eye patches to watch the game.

 

5 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Bingo spot on. 
Interesting to read Pies supporters bagging their team after one game. Comments around injuries, a defence hopeless without Murphy and Howe, a hopeless forward in Ash Johnson and new recruit Lachie Schultz, a lack of connection into the forward zone etc etc. Sound familiar? 
Hmm, a little perspective required. 

Except ours has been for the last two years.

5 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

He must have been reading Demonland for the “Last Two Years”, why doesn’t he tell us something we don’t already know…….!!!

Because we are slow learners?

12 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

So if you have not read the article then how can you comment?

I don't need to read it. He mainly talks c#%p and has done so for years.

Harry Mackay last year couldn’t hit the side of a barn, and I wouldn’t put my house on Joe Daniher kicking a goal either. Last year our problem was kicking accuracy, not forward connection/impotency. As other posters have said, get a couple of our key outs back in and focus on straight kicking.

5 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I don't need to read it. He mainly talks c#%p and has done so for years.

Well you know what the say about opinions.....

4 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Harry Mackay last year couldn’t hit the side of a barn, and I wouldn’t put my house on Joe Daniher kicking a goal either. Last year our problem was kicking accuracy, not forward connection/impotency. As other posters have said, get a couple of our key outs back in and focus on straight kicking.

So when Goodwin has said there was for the last two years he has no idea either?

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

I know Derm is not everyone’s cup of tea but he is dead right here. It’s been an issue for a long time without being fixed properly and it seems to still be an issue. Does anyone know why Stafford is our forwards coach?

It is going to potentially ruin/waste another season. Our list is running out of opportunities to win another premiership and this is a key reason why imo. 

Absolutely DOx. Every Demon I know has said since the game - " still no forward line".

Dermie's right about a lot of stuff, and as I said here last week, for example he believes Lions don't win a flag with Daniher and Hipwood as key forwrad talls.

Friday night - 11 marks between them for 2 goals combined..

Curnow and McKay showed how its done, as did Jesse last night and Max king yesterday also.

 

 

Edited March 10, 20241 yr by Demon17
spelling mistakes

Stating the obvious, recruiting has been poor, there is nobody developing at Casey.

Players running up the ground just blindly lob it to the goal front, that said, Forwards stand around like a stale bottle.

Thanks for creating the debate.

It is the way we play. The coaches haven't evolved our ways.

First half, we tried the old get the ball in and hold it there (2 goals in a half). In the third, the clearances from the centre got us back in, by having some space for Fritta to operate in. Sydney adjusted, and went down the corridors on us, as we tired in the fourth.

Cannot waste the domination of inside 50's, like we did in the first half.

Push those little forwards out of the area. They are clogging the space, and not getting back to be front and centre.

The angles of the lead are straight, really need to hit a pack from the side, or run into space with angles.

In my opinion Derm is wrong about the players, it is the structure. At this level they all have some capacity, if only we could bring the best out of each other. 

Get a forwards coach! 

Edited March 10, 20241 yr by kev martin

I’m going to say that I don’t believe that getting a good key forward would make much difference to our current woes - not without massive changes to the way we play the game  and to our skill set.
Firstly, we don’t have a forward coach who can effectively teach leading patterns, and proper forward skills - either that or our players are too dumb to follow instructions. (I have never seen a forward line as stagnant and crowded as ours often is - or as many players flying for a mark at any one time, - or so few players roving the packs for the inevitable spills).

Secondly, we don’t seem to have the skills in our midfield to hit leading targets, even if our forwards did offer leads, nor the nous to move the ball quickly forward so that the opposition don’t have the time to flood our forward line. 

Fix these issues first, then we might find that our current forwards might actually be all we need. Until we do, a new key forward would simply be a waste of money. We had a great forward recently in Jessie Hogan, and we wasted his ability with our our game plan (or lack there of) and our inability to hit his leads. 
I think it all boils down to coaching - and, on evidence so far, we are failing badly at this. 

Edited March 10, 20241 yr by Neil Crompton

You have to ignore a lot of things to consider this a reasonable article or come to this conclusion. When we had a forward line last year all of a sudden we looked dangerous.

media love ignoring things like injury and the list in general to make another dumb and shallow point that will keep them relevant in that weeks cycle of nonsense.

9 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I’m going to say that I don’t believe that getting a good key forward would make much difference to our current woes - not without massive changes to the way we play the game  and to our skill set.
Firstly, we don’t have a forward coach who can effectively teach leading patterns, and proper forward skills - either that or our players are too dumb to follow instructions. (I have never seen a forward line as stagnant and crowded as ours often is - or as many players flying for a mark at any one time, - or so few players roving the packs for the inevitable spills).

Secondly, we don’t seem to have the skills in our midfield to hit leading targets, even if our forwards did offer leads, nor the nous to move the ball quickly forward so that the opposition don’t have the time to flood our forward line skills to hit leading targets.

Fix these issues first, then we might find that our current forwards might actually be all we need. Until we do, a new key forward would simply be a waste of money. We had a great forward recently in Jessie Hogan, and we wasted his ability with our our game plan (or lack there of) and our inability to hit his leads. 
I think it all boils down to coaching - and, on evidence so far, we are failing badly at this. 

Good to see someone else who looks at a game with open eyes.

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

It could be as simple as Goody pulling a couple of the forwards to the side and say "Boys, we need you to kick more goals.". I winder if the club has tried this or if they are instead to focussed on creating stoppages on our forward 50.

Really?

13 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Thanks for creating the debate.

It is the way we play. The coaches haven't evolved our ways.

First half, we tried the old get the ball in and hold it there (2 goals in a half). In the third, the clearances from the centre got us back in, by having some space for Fritta to operate in. Sydney adjusted, and went down the corridors on us, as we tired in the fourth.

Cannot waste the domination of inside 50's, like we did in the first half.

Push those little forwards out of the area. They are clogging the space, and not getting back to be front and centre.

The angles of the lead are straight, really need to hit a pack from the side, or run into space with angles.

In my opinion Derm is wrong about the players, it is the structure. At this level they all have some capacity, if only we could bring the best out of each other. 

Get a forwards coach! 

I disagree with you a little about the players bit, Schache biggest problem and he alluded to it is he has no dog in him, he crashed a few packs Thursday night but not really hard so to speak.  

Sometimes I read on Demonland that people “didn’t read the article”, or “didn’t see the game”, or “only watched until halftime”, yet they comment anyway. What gives?
 

12 hours ago, demon3165 said:

I along with others have been banging on about this for the last two years hope someone is reading this at Melbourne.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/03/09/they-were-impotent-why-do-melbourne-refuse-to-address-their-biggest-flaw/

 

57 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Here is the thing, people only read and see one thing but not the rest of the article, if people here don't think we have had a forward line issue even after Goodwin has admitted it for the last two years then remove the red and blue eye patches to watch the game.

 

You can't have it both ways '3165'..

We either don't get we have a problem or we do...

...which one is it?

The FD obviously know there is an issue as Goody has consistently stated.

No one here has their red and blue patches on...we all know we have a forward line issue.

Dermott is no genius and all your banging on doesn't change it.

...but it's not an easy fix otherwise it would have already been done.

32 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Thanks for creating the debate.

It is the way we play. The coaches haven't evolved our ways.

First half, we tried the old get the ball in and hold it there (2 goals in a half). In the third, the clearances from the centre got us back in, by having some space for Fritta to operate in. Sydney adjusted, and went down the corridors on us, as we tired in the fourth.

Cannot waste the domination of inside 50's, like we did in the first half.

Push those little forwards out of the area. They are clogging the space, and not getting back to be front and centre.

The angles of the lead are straight, really need to hit a pack from the side, or run into space with angles.

In my opinion Derm is wrong about the players, it is the structure. At this level they all have some capacity, if only we could bring the best out of each other. 

Get a forwards coach! 

I completely agree Kev.

Another kpf would take pressure off JVR but ultimately if the delivery forward continues to be rubbish, then having Petty there won't make much difference.

I think Tracc's burst out of the centre and McVees beautiful pass to Fritta were the only two clean entries into our forward line all night that I can recall. 

There seems to be no clear system. The only change I could see was that instead of long bombs, occasionally there were low hard kicks delivered in. But.... Still to a pack of players.

We have to try something different with what we have up forward.

Adapt or die

 

25 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

I disagree with you a little about the players bit, Schache biggest problem and he alluded to it is he has no dog in him, he crashed a few packs Thursday night but not really hard so to speak.  

Given his size and light frame, why isn't he flying above the packs. 

I agree, throw himself recklessly at the high ball get his knees up high and into the opps, worst effect is it puts some opps on the ground and pushes the ball front and centre.

If only the coaches would tell him that is what they want from him. If they are telling and he is not listening, then that culture, brand and Melbourne way doesn't work with him.

Take a leaf out of the book of Bowser.

Edited March 10, 20241 yr by kev martin

If Dermie is right, we're asking the wrong question. 

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

You can't have it both ways '3165'..

We either don't get we have a problem or we do...

...which one is it?

The FD obviously know there is an issue as Goody has consistently stated.

No one here has their red and blue patches on...we all know we have a forward line issue.

Dermott is no genius and all your banging on doesn't change it.

...but it's not an easy fix otherwise it would have already been done.

I suggest you better start reading people's post then, people on here refuse to see there is a problem and plenty of them, and yes people watch the game with rose coloured glasses.

4 hours ago, BDA said:

we should just trade in Charlie Curnow. simples

Curnow and McKay at Carlton will be unsustainable from a cap space point of view, unless there's the return of the brown baggers.