2 hours ago, monoccular said:

We have one premiership 🏆 , and have finished the HA in top four three seasons in succession.

2022 we limped into finals based on a good start with an exhausted list.

2023 we made finals despite losing the new key to our forward problems every time one emerged - Frittata, Petty twice, and Melksham.  For a poorly connecting very makeshift forward line to lose finals by 7 and 2 points (and being on the wrong end again of three score reviews) whilst devastating is actually quite a feat.  Throw in even one of those missing forwards fully fit and it is a different story.

So, room for optimism but a lot of hard work needs to be done on and off the field. 
 

I think we will be contenders for sure. Certainly top 8, most likely top 4, for at least another 3 seasons.

The question is, do we have the talent to win it all again?

2021 - TMac and BBB were important pillars, now gone. We have no direct replacements yet. Langdon and Brayshaw did a brilliant work as the wing duo. Now Langdon is a shade of his former self and Hunter is not quite there yet.

I would say the only 2 areas that are equally good or better are our back 6 and our mid-field. Mind you our mid-field seems to be a bit stagnant in the sense that we haven't developed elite skills. Trac and Oliver need a huge off-season and work on those foot skills and decision making.

JVR is still work in progress and he may be very good, even better than TMac but he is just a kid. I think he will be cherry ripe in 2 more seasons. We desperately need a true KPF that can work alongside Petty and JVR.

2 hours ago, Dingo said:

If Grundy was the sub ,He could have gone into the ruck in the last quarter.Take McDonald off and put Max into the forward line.

They had the opportunity to do same with Shack but ignored it for some reason.

However, you have to ask did they ever intend to bring Shacky on at all from the get go?

It's just the weirdest sub choice and outcome.  A huge question mark on this that i'd be asking as President.

We were already effectively one player down in the first half.  Then a fresh player in the second.

Has to be the worst coaching performance (sub management) i've witnessed so far although i caveat that with the fact i don't follow every single game of AFL so there may well be a worse example somewhere since its inception.  Happy to be corrected.

16.28 in two final appearances - thing is it is no surprise as it's part of a pattern that has been evident for 2 seasons.

My obs on this:

* aren't they  highly paid, elite players and therefore  reasonably expected to be capable of effectively leading,  passing and converting shots as goals ( at least 50% of the time / a 50% conversion would have won us both games)

* isn't it the role of the coaching staff to id issues and work with the players to rectify them at rraining? How long have they had to sort this out? Are they able to do their job?

The last 5 mins of Blues game was akin to watching a train crash in slow mo.

How good was SparGod

Poor kicking, poor football, I get that.

Bad luck with injuries, such is.

Close competition, had we won last week, we were serious contenders. Even if we won tonight, it was going to be a tough ask.

But the umpiring, those bloody umpires. Seriously, last night it was an absolute disgrace. I will never get that.

At the start of the year I thought the concept of having 4 umpires was going to be good (pick out frees deep at both ends of the ground) I was so wrong. They were poor all year.

4 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Wasted season? Let's be realistic and acknowledge that many clubs spend consecutive years at or near the top and in fact need to do so to win the title. That's what we are doing.

Face it: we went into this finals series up against it missing key forwards and in both games (from the five minute mark of the Woods game) our in form midfielder. We lost both by a combined eight points. So we are a contender.

I don't think it was wasted since (a) we put a year into JvR, (b) we learned last night that Smith, who played his best game, has a future as a marking target, (c) we saw Sparrow go to another level and Spargo was strong (again after appearing lost), and (d) we found McVee who was found out a little in the finals but will only improve.

TMac will (should) retire. We played two men short (TMac Brayshaw) in the Woods game and one man short last night with TMac in the side. But we can build a forward line out of Petty, JvR, Smith and a fit Fritter who I reckon was seriously underdone for the finals.

The backs were mighty these last few weeks and show no sign of slowing up.

We lost due to some panic, some lack of composure up forward, poor skills (Max it's time you could be relied on in front of goal FCS), missing personnel, rotten luck and, in the final quarter last night some of the worst umpiring ever seen. Was it an AFL conspiracy to get the favoured Blue boys up? Sure looked like it although I'll reserve final judgement until I can face the replay. But for all that we have continued to lay groundwork

And on the bright side we have a strong draft hand, ridiculously so for a team that finished as high as we did. Emphasis: players who can kick with precision.

Tx for mentioning the umpiring.  I know ultimately we lost it by poor kicking but with some balanced umpiring we would have won. Carlton got some very soft fries that directly caused goals. Umps were red hot on rolling over on top of the ball but for some reason just stopped paying it.

Carlton got a lot of 50 m penalties and we had none despite their infringements.

It wasn't just the many more frees paid to Carlton it was the many more they ignored paying us.

To add injury it got worse in the last quarter. Suspicious.

Chandler fallen off the face of the earth after a strong first 8 weeks to start the year, what a tease 

Executing our goal kicking under big finals pressure (Composure) cost us in these 2 finals.

We need a Power Forward to help JVR and Petty, not sure Petty can go a full season with the hits and knocks we need security cover.

Injuries from R17 onwards also didn't help either, plus our sub selections in finals.

 

In the COLD light of day I reckon an apology for the manner in which the past 4 finals have transpired from Simon to the supporter base might slightly ease the frustration and disappointment....

During the finals campaign of 21 we were purring. Moving the ball with purpose and freedom and belief. What inspired that? Where has that gone?

We play with too much fear now. The balance is slanted too much towards defence in my opinion.

I don’t know if its in Goody’s make up or not but the players have to be allowed to express themselves sometimes. There’s a weight holding them down the last 2 seasons. It’s all system system system. And system is important, don’t get me wrong, but players need to be let play. I think the straight jacket is impacting our decision making. We take the safe option or wrong option too often.

And I might just be talking through my hat. But if I’m a player I’d rather die with my boots on than be caught out playing the percentages over and over and losing in the same way.

3 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Executing our goal kicking under big finals pressure (Composure) cost us in these 2 finals.

We need a Power Forward to help JVR and Petty, not sure Petty can go a full season with the hits and knocks we need security cover.

Injuries from R17 onwards also didn't help either, plus our sub selections in finals.

 

How do we improve executing under immense pressure. It is a real problem and near impossible to replicate at training. I just don’t think we have many players with ice running through their veins when the pressure is on. We have a great sample size of 4 pressure finals, the last two the worst in terms of executing.  We also have critical games (or moments) during the year when we fail to deliver time after time. Admittedly, there were probably games during the season when players have stepped up at critical times but  to actually seal a game with a set shot - I can’t recall many. Even if it is not to seal a game but to bury the hopes of the opposition and stepping up when we have that chance with a set shot and it feels like we fail to execute the vast majority of times. Hate to admit this but players like Walker, Elliot, Gunston (in his prime), Breust (in his prime) etc… How a recruiter identifies that ice - I have no idea but it is a massive issue because it is so deflating to the team collectively to be gassing so many chances and worse, it keeps the opposition weighing striking distance. How many solid and dominating victories have we had this season.  For Goodwin to trot out the “it is a tough competition” is an easy out. It maybe a tough completion but when you keep teams in it with poor kicking, it  does not have to be. Apologies for the rambling post. Don’t start me on the umpiring or the mi d boggling sub selection (which gave the optics of someone other than Goody selecting the sub and Goody then proving them wrong) - beggars belief. 

12 minutes ago, BDA said:

During the finals campaign of 21 we were purring. Moving the ball with purpose and freedom and belief. What inspired that? Where has that gone?

We play with too much fear now. The balance is slanted too much towards defence in my opinion.

I don’t know if its in Goody’s make up or not but the players have to be allowed to express themselves sometimes. There’s a weight holding them down the last 2 seasons. It’s all system system system. And system is important, don’t get me wrong, but players need to be let play. I think the straight jacket is impacting our decision making. We take the safe option or wrong option too often.

And I might just be talking through my hat. But if I’m a player I’d rather die with my boots on than be caught out playing the percentages over and over and losing in the same way.

Spot on - how many times did we fail to take the first option only to hold the ball another 5 or 10 seconds and take that option anyway. The refusal to run and gun! Macrae said when Pies lost to us on KB weekend - they went into their shells and didn’t take the game on and he would rather lose by 10 goals. I love that about Macrae because look at the way they play - fans love it, oppo fear it and it works!!! The grind and hugging the boundary keeps teams in it and enables teams to set up defensively. 

A number of changes have occurred since 21.

Hibbo has slowed. Although I think our backline is still one of the best about.

Salem has been seriously sick or injured and a shadow of his star self.

Langdon not the same player this year.

Bbb and Tmac have had injuries and poor form. The game seems past both of them.

Oliver missed half a year from a hamstring. Hmmm.

Petty was injured most of the year.

Fritta the same.

Grundy Gawn combo wasa disaster.

Goody made poor selections.

Kozzie had a bad season. Hot and cold. Plays too angry. Jvr the same.

Spargo the same 

Jordan not really up to it.

Chandler a couple of good games only.

Sparrow up and down.

Kicking at goal out the window.

No cool light of day.  We just threw away 2 years of top 4.  We know the problems, we see it every week.  The club either gets it right or we look back with a flag outside of our home ground as the only success in 50 years.  Our so called talent can't execute for goal.... Fix it now. 

9 minutes ago, Soidee said:

No cool light of day.  We just threw away 2 years of top 4.  We know the problems, we see it every week.  The club either gets it right or we look back with a flag outside of our home ground as the only success in 50 years.  Our so called talent can't execute for goal.... Fix it now. 

Agree 100%. How do they fix the lack of elite (forward of centre) finishers though?

5 minutes ago, Dodos Demons said:

Agree 100%. How do they fix the lack of elite (forward of centre) finishers though?

You find them and refine their skills. 
our opponents have them….

3 hours ago, Deecisive said:

Disappointed that first Tmac played instead of Grundy. Tmac has been a great player but his form has not been good, his ability to jump and his speed are real issues especially when we seldom pass into the forward line. Grundy or Schache should have played, the fact they did not replace him at 3rd quarter time makes me wonder why goodwin was not prepared to make those changes.  Schache was good enough to be our sub he should have been good enough to put on the ground to replace a player doing nothing. We seem to have a problem playing our sub unless its a medical emergency, does not make sense not to use a fresh player.

At times when Max was rested we had no ruckman at the contest which allowed them free reign. Was that part of our game plan. The original concept with grundy was to give max more time forward and give Max a hand in the ruck. I dont see Grundy did anything wrong, i think max failed to improve his kicking. last nights around the corner was an example that you really expect players to kick these days. Regardless of grundy staying or going Max needs to work on his kicking, stop running off to the side and learn to kick straight. It now looks like we are giving up a damn good ruckman probably for not a lot of return and then have to find ourselves another ruckman. I just done understand that.

 

Genuine question. Can someone that knows explain why there was no Melbourne ruckman at some contests. Disorganised ? Tactic ?

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You find them and refine their skills. 
our opponents have them….

We have a few off half back. Just be nice to have (or recruit) some forward of centre. My fear is that we are in the premiership window now so don’t have too many years to find and refine. I have faith in our recruiters. Important trade period. 

5 minutes ago, Dodos Demons said:

We have a few off half back. Just be nice to have (or recruit) some forward of centre. My fear is that we are in the premiership window now so don’t have too many years to find and refine. I have faith in our recruiters. Important trade period. 

If you are in The “Premiership Window” you don’t miss easy goals continuously….

We have a lot of work to do

2021 is a long time ago 

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If you are in The “Premiership Window” you don’t miss easy goals continuously….

We have a lot of work to do

2021 is a long time ago 

True. Maybe the window has passed (boy I hope not).  Imagine the 2021 team vs the team last night. Injuries have not helped but not many players are above their 2021 output/contribution. 

Edited September 16, 20231 yr by Dodos Demons

53 minutes ago, Bystander said:

Genuine question. Can someone that knows explain why there was no Melbourne ruckman at some contests. Disorganised ? Tactic ?

Disorganised. Joel Smith nominated twice but the umpire said it was too late. 

4 hours ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Last night’s game rivals Essendon’s loss in the 1999 PF as the biggest choke I’ve ever seen in a final. Essendon made a pact the following year to seek revenge, to leave no stone unturned. They didn’t even sing the club song after wins due to the bigger picture. I realise the game has changed a lot these days and little separates most clubs with facilities, preparation and sports science, whereas back then the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ were more evident. However, I whether we might head down a similar path to this and 2024 takes us to the promised land?

Carlton did the same in 1995 after a straight sets exit in 1994.

I’be been thinking who we can shop around for draft picks and pkayers

 The list in my mind is Salem, Langdon, Grundy and Sparrow. I love Tom but if we could get a really clean user for him, with some outside pace I’d be interested.

20 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I’be been thinking who we can shop around for draft picks and pkayers

 The list in my mind is Salem, Langdon, Grundy and Sparrow. I love Tom but if we could get a really clean user for him, with some outside pace I’d be interested.

Grundy is gone. And I think with Bowey and Rivers, Salem isn't as critical as he was in 2021, so could have currency. We'll get something for JJ (as a free agent, or as a trade if St Kilda don't want to dilute their FA). And Harmes might be on the way out too.

But Sparrow is going nowhere. He is a goal kicking mid. Seriously strong. Great kick. No way will we trade him out. Particularly with Viney 30 at the start of next year.

Edited September 16, 20231 yr by deanox

I don’t think I’ll ever get over that Viney turn over. I’ve watched it 4 times already and I can’t understand it. He wasn’t even under pressure. I’ll have nightmares about that for years.

If he had kicked it on the full, got caught holding the ball, a million other things and I think we would have held up. I just can’t believe it.

Edited September 16, 20231 yr by At the break of Gawn