2 minutes ago, D Rev said:

I'd say the last few years have been very good!

Very good isn’t good enough with this list

I want more

 

The most frustrating thing is the Pies have no elite power forwards but have devised a game plan and strategy to suit their team. They rarely bomb it in, forwards all lead and create lots of space, and mids try and get it inside 50 quickly.  When they can’t they chip it around. And they are ranked #1 for goals per inside 50 this year.  They were bottom 5 and 6 prior to Macrae/Leppitsch.

We have a similar lack of elite power forwards, but usually bomb it in and don’t lead much. It’s not our personnel but our coaching. Damp conditions make us even more risk averse and dysfunctional.

When Petty came in against Richmond and was leading like crazy I thought our coaches had finally got it together.  

We are going to need a lot of luck the next 3 weeks.  Starting with the weather.  Our inside 50 dominance will usually win the day in dry conditions. 

 

It will feel wasted if we don't acheive another flag. I just keep thinking Max and some of the others who said after 2021 there motivation was to win it on the G in front of our fans. 

I think the motivation has disappeared. 

There is pretty much one single common denominator among all the discussions,  all the ideas of fixes, all the ..well..alls.... lol

We only had to do ONE thing a bit different and we'd be holding up the cup.

It doesn't need clever strategies...it doesnt need this bloke or that added to the list.  

It's so remarkably simple It's almost laughable.

You just need to kick straight..

We kicked ourseves out of the game, out of contention. Whether we think one style of play is better than another or not... had we in many a game and ESPECIALLY  last night kcked straighter. We win.

Let that sink in.  

Only one thing and one thing only affects the scoreboard.... accuracy when opportunity given. 

Im not going to say we choked ( but by god the resemblance is uncanny )...  but we only needed two wayward kicks to be on target...and we win.

All that hard work  and we can't hit the side of a barn... ...  and not the first time.

Why this happens must have the highest priority for fixing.

Everything else can stand in line behind.

Kick straight..... who'd  da thought.....

Edited September 8, 20231 yr by beelzebub

5 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Brown, TMAC, Fritsch, Petty, Melksham - all forwards and all have been injured for significant parts of the year or currently incapacitated.

Perhaps there is a link between the players you have on the ground (and their caliber) and your chances of winning...

Matter of fact - if you Google AFL Injury Ladder and AFL Ladder - there is a remarkable resemblance.. year after year after year...

 

Yeah you wonder about the toll on their bodies having to slam into pack marks continuosly versus leading into space to mark bullet passes where middies have lowered their eyes.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

There is pretty much one single common denominator among all the discussions,  all the ideas of fixes, all the ..well..alls.... lol

We only had to do ONE thing a bit different and we'd be holding up the cup.

It doesn't need clever strategies...it doesnt need this bloke or that added to the list.  

It's so remarkably simple It's almost laughable.

You just need to kick straight..

We kicked ourseves out of the game, out of contention. Whether we think one style of play is better than another or not... had we in many a game and ESPECIALLY  last night kcked straighter. We win.

Let that sink in.  

Only one thing and one thing only affects the scoreboard.... accuracy when opportunity given. 

Im not going to say we choked ( but by god the resemblance is uncanny )...  but we only needed two wayward kicks to be on target...and we win.

All that hard work  and we can't hit the side of a barn... ...  and not the first time.

Why this happens must have the highest priority for fixing.

Everything else can stand in line behind.

Kick straight..... who'd  da thought.....

This applies to multiple games this year that might have seen us atop the ladder or at least second 

everyone keeps saying it 

out: headless chooks and stafford

in: composure and elite kicking 

So we apparently have some of the best coaches in the land.

Goodwin (multiple premiership player, premiership coach)

Choco (premiership coach)

Yze (assistant in Clarko years, played a lot of forward in career)

How can they not see how terrible our forward 50 entries are, it totally baffles me. And it keeps happening week upon week.

How about lower the eyes, lead different directions, instead of bombing then praying for a pack mark.

Crumbers need to stay down and do their job, crumb. Looking at you Kozzie especially.

Coaches need a kick up the bum in my opinion. Fix it, cause straight sets are fast approaching.

And FFS come out breathing fire from the first bounce.

'Bombing it in, bombing it in, bombing it in'!

Ease up. Someone with more persistence than me could do an analysis of how many 'chaos kicks' from forward of centre into the fifty by Collingwood became scores. They seemed pretty common, at our (Punt Road) end at least. No problems for Collingwood, then (side note: that did worry me in terms of our defensive structure and response).

So, is it method of entry or response when it gets there? The difference last night between a win and a loss - all that matters in a final - gets back to the kicking when it got there: 3 of our 11 behinds (incl 2 posters) and 3+OOB become goals and we win.

And another thing:

Kudos to those 'Landers who, going into last night, had (and hopefully still have!) the 'We got this' mindset. But for the kicking, they were right!

The rest of us, in our MFCSS mindsets, 'project', assuming the players, coaches, etc, feel how we feel and that situations are as we see them. That won't actually be how it is for them.

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

There is pretty much one single common denominator among all the discussions,  all the ideas of fixes, all the ..well..alls.... lol

We only had to do ONE thing a bit different and we'd be holding up the cup.

It doesn't need clever strategies...it doesnt need this bloke or that added to the list.  

It's so remarkably simple It's almost laughable.

You just need to kick straight..

We kicked ourseves out of the game, out of contention. Whether we think one style of play is better than another or not... had we in many a game and ESPECIALLY  last night kcked straighter. We win.

Let that sink in.  

Only one thing and one thing only affects the scoreboard.... accuracy when opportunity given. 

Im not going to say we choked ( but by god the resemblance is uncanny )...  but we only needed two wayward kicks to be on target...and we win.

All that hard work  and we can't hit the side of a barn... ...  and not the first time.

Why this happens must have the highest priority for fixing.

Everything else can stand in line behind.

Kick straight..... who'd  da thought.....

I’d like to add the “method” of kicking it into the forward 50, Viney, Oliver, Trac, Hunter, Langdon all just bombed it long and high 30-40 m out from goal all night. To have 30 more inside 50’s, we only needed 7 more points.

it would be hard work being a forward with our delivery, we have been saying the same for the past 2.5 years but nothing has changed and we have lost personnel.

Still seething from last night sorry

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

There is pretty much one single common denominator among all the discussions,  all the ideas of fixes, all the ..well..alls.... lol

We only had to do ONE thing a bit different and we'd be holding up the cup.

It doesn't need clever strategies...it doesnt need this bloke or that added to the list.  

It's so remarkably simple It's almost laughable.

You just need to kick straight..

We kicked ourseves out of the game, out of contention. Whether we think one style of play is better than another or not... had we in many a game and ESPECIALLY  last night kcked straighter. We win.

Let that sink in.  

Only one thing and one thing only affects the scoreboard.... accuracy when opportunity given. 

Im not going to say we choked ( but by god the resemblance is uncanny )...  but we only needed two wayward kicks to be on target...and we win.

All that hard work  and we can't hit the side of a barn... ...  and not the first time.

Why this happens must have the highest priority for fixing.

Everything else can stand in line behind.

Kick straight..... who'd  da thought.....

Unfortunately our forwards are always under so much pressure to execute cleanly because of how the ball comes in. 

I find is fascinating how aware our players are of the expected scores. We know they are shown the numbers mid game. Post game Tracc often speaks about it, and did last night again.

The reasoning is simple - it highlights we are doing a lot right and solidifies good intention and behaviours. I do have some concerns over the psychological impact of it too though. It  reinforces how difficult our system is, and how hard we have to work comparatively. It must be super deflating.

I have concerns about our ability to back up again with the same system next year. We need some luck with injuries, and some fresh ideas forward of the ball - because it’s our Achilles heel, and it has been for 5 years.

Edited September 8, 20231 yr by The heart beats true

6 hours ago, McQueen said:

Unfortunately our forwards are always under so much pressure to execute cleanly because of how the ball comes in. 

Thats a) an overreach and b) no different from other sides throughout the entire season, where it plays out the same for North, for Hawthorn for Collingwood etc etc 

The context of clean ball is the most important thing, we have less of it due to the gameplan (and that doesn’t mean the gameplan is flawed).

Anyway, if you (that’s a general you ,not you @McQueen or @The heart beats true) were coaching, and we had fairly consistent territory in our forward half and re-entry after re-entry - with 40 players in the F50 arc… in all seriousness, what is the best approach when there is such a density of players - that’s the ultimate question.

The problem isn’t delivery anymore than any other side, nor is it our act of bombing it… more than any other side, that works fine when there are an equal amount of players, not the defending side having a +1

We play their percentages, and expect the re-entry outnumber will outweigh the amount of times a team can slingshot out of their D50- and thus they have cleaner entries.

Our issue this year is that we have 2/3 injured key forwards, which no team can cover that, and then our capacity to have multiple re-entries, which is great, and exacerbates the issue of density of defenders… I for one do not know how to ‘stretch’ the opposing team… when we have such an amount of re-entries. 

Edited September 8, 20231 yr by Engorged Onion
Weirdness on the iPad…

This!

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/07/finals-fix-magic-magpies-expose-dees-massive-flaw-but-heres-why-they-should-have-to-win-it-all-without-maynard/

13 minutes ago, Brownie said:

This!

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/07/finals-fix-magic-magpies-expose-dees-massive-flaw-but-heres-why-they-should-have-to-win-it-all-without-maynard/

Accurate 🥲

22 minutes ago, Brownie said:

This!

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/07/finals-fix-magic-magpies-expose-dees-massive-flaw-but-heres-why-they-should-have-to-win-it-all-without-maynard/

I hope Goodwin is reading this.

I am not very fond of the team naively taking the expected score stats as a "win" or an indication that things are OK and will sort themselves out.

20 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I hope Goodwin is reading this.

I am not very fond of the team naively taking the expected score stats as a "win" or an indication that things are OK and will sort themselves out.

Expected score is a fallacy and I really hope Goodwin doesn’t just think our forward efficiency is just a simple fix. I hope the FD pauses the tape at every inside 50 and shows where the better option was. Also the lack of leading is extremely concerning. It’s either they’ve been directed not to because the FD just wants deep entries or the forwards are lacking some sort of confidence.

 

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Expected score is a fallacy and I really hope Goodwin doesn’t just think our forward efficiency is just a simple fix. I hope the FD pauses the tape at every inside 50 and shows where the better option was. Also the lack of leading is extremely concerning. It’s either they’ve been directed not to because the FD just wants deep entries or the forwards are lacking some sort of confidence.

 

If the forwards are doing whatever they wish on the field, it would look very bad on the coaching group. So my first guess is that the players are being instructed to follow a flawed strategy, specially when we don't have a quality KPF.

15 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I hope Goodwin is reading this.

I am not very fond of the team naively taking the expected score stats as a "win" or an indication that things are OK and will sort themselves out.

Haven’t won a final since our premiership & likely to go out in straight sets & possibly 4 final loses in a row! Continue to bomb the ball into fw50 in the same dumb way! Who would want to be a forward at our club with that rubbish coming in! Goody saying how proud he was of his players really, it’s the same old BS yet we keep hearing the learnings they get?  Will the next 3 yrs see us just hanging around finals and hearing the same old & then watching us fall of the cliff? Hearing Max say it felt like a typical Melbourne loss, I thought we had gone past this!

13 hours ago, beelzebub said:

There is pretty much one single common denominator among all the discussions,  all the ideas of fixes, all the ..well..alls.... lol

We only had to do ONE thing a bit different and we'd be holding up the cup.

It doesn't need clever strategies...it doesnt need this bloke or that added to the list.  

It's so remarkably simple It's almost laughable.

You just need to kick straight..

We kicked ourseves out of the game, out of contention. Whether we think one style of play is better than another or not... had we in many a game and ESPECIALLY  last night kcked straighter. We win.

Let that sink in.  

Only one thing and one thing only affects the scoreboard.... accuracy when opportunity given. 

Im not going to say we choked ( but by god the resemblance is uncanny )...  but we only needed two wayward kicks to be on target...and we win.

All that hard work  and we can't hit the side of a barn... ...  and not the first time.

Why this happens must have the highest priority for fixing.

Everything else can stand in line behind.

Kick straight..... who'd  da thought.....

Spot on

1 minute ago, Demonsone said:

Haven’t won a final since our premiership & likely to go out in straight sets & possibly 4 final loses in a row! Continue to bomb the ball into fw50 in the same dumb way! Who would want to be a forward at our club with that rubbish coming in! Goody saying how proud he was of his players really, it’s the same old BS yet we keep hearing the learnings they get?  Will the next 3 yrs see us just hanging around finals and hearing the same old & then watching us fall of the cliff? Hearing Max say it felt like a typical Melbourne loss, I thought we had gone past this!

October 2021, Goodwin's record in finals 5 - 1 (1 premiership)

September 2023, record is now 5 - 4 likely to become 5 - 5 (two straight sets in a row). 

Very dire outlook and who would've thought the team would be in this position back when we just won the premiership obliterating the opposition.

15 hours ago, Watson11 said:

The most frustrating thing is the Pies have no elite power forwards but have devised a game plan and strategy to suit their team. They rarely bomb it in, forwards all lead and create lots of space, and mids try and get it inside 50 quickly.  When they can’t they chip it around. And they are ranked #1 for goals per inside 50 this year.  They were bottom 5 and 6 prior to Macrae/Leppitsch.

We have a similar lack of elite power forwards, but usually bomb it in and don’t lead much. It’s not our personnel but our coaching. Damp conditions make us even more risk averse and dysfunctional.

When Petty came in against Richmond and was leading like crazy I thought our coaches had finally got it together.  

We are going to need a lot of luck the next 3 weeks.  Starting with the weather.  Our inside 50 dominance will usually win the day in dry conditions. 

 

The Pies did do well flooding our backline although our slow entries did help them. It was pretty crowded in there most of the time.

can we save the post mortem until post season. we beat the Pies in pretty much every stat and should have won. 

we can still win the flag. Let’s knock over the Blues and get going!!

45 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

The Pies did do well flooding our backline although our slow entries did help them. It was pretty crowded in there most of the time.

Our game plan encourages this  The game plan is not working well enough and Goodwin has made the players too defensive minded needs some dare and run from the centre

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

October 2021, Goodwin's record in finals 5 - 1 (1 premiership)

September 2023, record is now 5 - 4 likely to become 5 - 5 (two straight sets in a row). 

Very dire outlook and who would've thought the team would be in this position back when we just won the premiership obliterating the opposition.

It’s our game plan, for multiple fw50 entries regardless of how good they are, we don’t have a power fwds the likes of the lions, cats, blues & expecting a young JVR and hybrids to take marks is unbelievable. Watching the game again and the continued ignoring of leads & free players to just wanting to bombing it in us simply dumb football . An issue which Goody can’t ignore & hasn’t been able to fix. It’s one thing to have a defence & contest mindset which is great but to not execute fw50 entries and not lower your eyes is simply poor … don’t want to hear how well we played as we didn’t!