Has our form been overstated?

[spalding 1,119]

No-one seems to have mentioned this, but I'm sure Binman saw it and will mention it tonight.

In both the 3rd and 4th quarters on Saturday I don't think Carlton would have had an inside 50 in the last 10 minutes of either. They were cooked. I said to my kids at the game that 3 qtr time has come just at the right time for Carlton as they will get a breather. We will keep coming and run over them again in the last, but just need to hold them for the first 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter. Alas!

Unfortunately we did not take advantage of this as we kept bombing into an outnumbered forward line. I hope we learn from this, as the goal that we were all shocked that Salem missed will be the secret to beating the Blues next time. move it around the top of 50 and get it to the likes of Petracca, Rivers (Fritsch) and take shots from longer range rather than bombing it to the goalsquare (unless Max is resting down there and we have small forwards at his feet)

It was clear to me that Carlton do not have the fitness to play this game for as long as we do, as we have been training for it for 3 years.

I think we beat them for this reason in finals, unless we give up goals in the way we did at the start of the last quarter, It was better to learn this lesson on Saturday.

I also don't think their potential ins will be as beneficial as they and all the pundits think (particularly McGovern) as I they may not necessarily be as fit as the guys who are in the Carlton team atm.

[The heart beats true 16,727]

Just now, spalding said:

No-one seems to have mentioned this, but I'm sure Binman saw it and will mention it tonight.

In both the 3rd and 4th quarters on Saturday I don't think Carlton would have had an inside 50 in the last 10 minutes of either. They were cooked. I said to my kids at the game that 3 qtr time has come just at the right time for Carlton as they will get a breather. We will keep coming and run over them again in the last, but just need to hold them for the first 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter. Alas!

Unfortunately we did not take advantage of this as we kept bombing into an outnumbered forward line. I hope we learn from this, as the goal that we were all shocked that Salem missed will be the secret to beating the Blues next time. move it around the top of 50 and get it to the likes of Petracca, Rivers (Fritsch) and take shots from longer range rather than bombing it to the goalsquare (unless Max is resting down there and we have small forwards at his feet)

It was clear to me that Carlton do not have the fitness to play this game for as long as we do, as we have been training for it for 3 years.

I think we beat them for this reason in finals, unless we give up goals in the way we did at the start of the last quarter, It was better to learn this lesson on Saturday.

I also don't think their potential ins will be as beneficial as they and all the pundits think (particularly McGovern) as I they may not necessarily be as fit as the guys who are in the Carlton team atm.

The fitness was glaringly obvious at the ground. Honestly they clung to that win for the last 10 minutes. It was an admirable effort, but they were shot, and we looked much fitter.

Why I’m disappointed not to win the lesson for our boys is obvious. We have the legs, but we need a better plan for pulling teams out when they flood back - especially when we don’t have more contested marking players ahead of the ball. We also would be furious at the centre clearance goals we gave up to start the 4th. One less of those and we win.

I’d be really surprised if Carlton can keep this up for another 6 weeks. They had 7 scoring shots to 10 after half time, but managed 6 goals (we went 5.5). That game goes for 1 minute longer in either the 3rd or 4th term and we would have won.

Also, just to be clear, we did win. I still can’t believe there was ‘insufficient evidence’ that the ball was touched. If the ARC weren’t told of the umpires call they’d say that was a clear goal. They had their opinion swayed by the goal umpire because the angle that shows the ball wasn’t touched was the angle the goal umpire saw. If you showed that goal line footage to 10 people and asked them to say where was it touched all 10 of them would say it wasn’t. That the ARC is made aware of the goal umpires opinion is a clear fault in the system.

[BDA 20,895]

31 minutes ago, spalding said:

No-one seems to have mentioned this, but I'm sure Binman saw it and will mention it tonight.

In both the 3rd and 4th quarters on Saturday I don't think Carlton would have had an inside 50 in the last 10 minutes of either. They were cooked. I said to my kids at the game that 3 qtr time has come just at the right time for Carlton as they will get a breather. We will keep coming and run over them again in the last, but just need to hold them for the first 5-10 minutes of the 4th quarter. Alas!

Unfortunately we did not take advantage of this as we kept bombing into an outnumbered forward line. I hope we learn from this, as the goal that we were all shocked that Salem missed will be the secret to beating the Blues next time. move it around the top of 50 and get it to the likes of Petracca, Rivers (Fritsch) and take shots from longer range rather than bombing it to the goalsquare (unless Max is resting down there and we have small forwards at his feet)

It was clear to me that Carlton do not have the fitness to play this game for as long as we do, as we have been training for it for 3 years.

I think we beat them for this reason in finals, unless we give up goals in the way we did at the start of the last quarter, It was better to learn this lesson on Saturday.

I also don't think their potential ins will be as beneficial as they and all the pundits think (particularly McGovern) as I they may not necessarily be as fit as the guys who are in the Carlton team atm.

at 3 quarter time i was sure we had the game on our terms and in the bag. I posted as much in the game day thread.

We fell asleep for the first 5 mins of the 4th and just couldn't recover. Very costly lapse. their first goal was a catalogue of fumbles and mistakes from us. frustrating as hell but i agree with you. We're fitter than them. They've had to rescue their season and gone flat out for 2 months now. It'll catchup with them soon enough.

[The heart beats true 16,727]

17 minutes ago, BDA said:

at 3 quarter time i was sure we had the game on our terms and in the bag. I posted as much in the game day thread.

We fell asleep for the first 5 mins of the 4th and just couldn't recover. Very costly lapse. their first goal was a catalogue of fumbles and mistakes from us. frustrating as hell but i agree with you. We're fitter than them. They've had to rescue their season and gone flat out for 2 months now. It'll catchup with them soon enough.

I reckon the Suns might catch Carlton on the weekend. Suns midfield is very good, and they’ve been super impressive up there. Carlton have played a lot of footy on adrenaline and atmosphere. That’s not exactly a calling card for Heritage Stadium. Will be a good watch. Miller will go to Cripps and they’ll back in Anderson and Rowell.

[layzie 30,424]

16 minutes ago, BDA said:

at 3 quarter time i was sure we had the game on our terms and in the bag. I posted as much in the game day thread.

We fell asleep for the first 5 mins of the 4th and just couldn't recover. Very costly lapse. their first goal was a catalogue of fumbles and mistakes from us. frustrating as hell but i agree with you. We're fitter than them. They've had to rescue their season and gone flat out for 2 months now. It'll catchup with them soon enough.

Very Geelong game feeling that first 5 mins of the last quarter. In a game with 17 goals scored that is almost fatal. So important to come out hard and win clearances when they matter.

Hopefully Carlton face a tricky trip to Carrara next week. I hope it's nice and warm with plenty of humidity and they run themselves into the ground. 

[jumbo returns 6,619]

The good thing about all of this, is that a top 4 finish is still in our hands

And GCS won't roll over

[Roost it far 6,481]

11 hours ago, layzie said:

It's great that a lot of people haven't given up but sometimes this place is just a big echo chamber with people calling out this place for the very behaviour they are guilty of 90% of the time. I've been one of these in the past too. 

I'm actually over it and don't need to be on here anymore.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Roost it far

[Jaded No More 60,157]

10 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

Silly billies. 

It's impossible to talk sense on here.

I've never doubted the talent on the list. I've said we need attribute diversity and a better mix of players. Do you see the difference. Talent vs attribute diversity. Don't know how many more times I need to say that before it sticks. 

I've also never stated that Collingwood would win the flag, but cool. 

Continue on in your lovely echo chamber you two. 

 

On 7/7/2023 at 11:00 PM, JimmyGadson said:

Collingwood like every side have their weak areas. 

But they're streets ahead of us right now in almost all facets. And we are well behind Port and Brisbane. 

They way they play is so exciting and attractive to watch. And they're just always in games, no matter how much they're down by. 

Tomorrow is a true test for where we sit compared to teams 5th-8th.

Can Goodwin inspire us to a comfortable win against a less talented side who have some significant outs? 

I have little confidence. 

In July you said Pies Port and Brisbane are street ahead of us. Since then we beat Pies and Brisbane. Port lost 4 on the trot. Brisbane and Pies lost two in a row, including to bottom 4 sides. 

You have absolutely no trust in the side, and that’s fine. But please don’t pretend like you weren’t telling us all what a genius Fly is and what a boring uninspired and stubborn coach Goodwin is. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jaded No More

[Gillies 26]

11 hours ago, layzie said:

It's great that a lot of people haven't given up but sometimes this place is just a big echo chamber with people calling out this place for the very behaviour they are guilty of 90% of the time. I've been one of these in the past too. 

I'm actually over it and don't need to be on here anymore.

 

You really seem to allow others to upset you too much. Life needs to be water off a ducks back . Don’t let text on a computer screen dictate your mood mate .

[Jaded No More 60,157]

3 minutes ago, Gillies said:

You really seem to allow others to upset you too much. Life needs to be water off a ducks back . Don’t let text on a computer screen dictate your mood mate .

Mate you’ve been posting here for 2 minutes. Don’t tell people how they should feel. You have absolutely no idea what people are going through behind the screen. 

How about you don’t behave like an arseclown and then nobody will have to be impacted by your behavior?!

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jaded No More

[Gillies 26]

11 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and by providing it you need to expect that you may get pushback or feedback or disagreement. So long as it’s done respectfully, there is nothing wrong with that. 

This is after all, a discussion forum, and in every discussion and conversation there are sides. 

And people are also entitled to change their mind, have a (respectful) meltdown because they’re sad their team lost, and have a sook when things aren’t going the way they hoped. 
 

Some days are better on here than others. I hope you stick around as you’re a really good poster. But you have to do what feels right. We don’t bring toxicity to our lives. We are peaceful kings and queens! 

I actually find this forum too sensitive and apologetic at times . Opinions should be owned unapologetically without fear of offending anyone . I honestly don’t care if I offend someone if I have an opinion and a reminder that if you don’t like what’s typed then don’t read it. It’s only a footy forum. 
 

 

 

 

 

[praha 10,575]

Reality we face is that the weekend is a must win to cement top 4.

If we lose and Carlton win, then odds suddenly shift in Carlton's favour with them facing GWS at Marvel.

Bet your house that Mitchell will get the Hawks up for this to severely dent our season. They will throw everything at us. They are primed to end the season well.

An absolute must win against Hawthorn. We have to close it out. 

[Gillies 26]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Mate you’ve been posting here for 2 minutes. Don’t tell people how they should feel. You have absolutely no idea what people are going through behind the screen. 

How about you don’t behave like an arseclown and then nobody will have to be impacted by your behavior?!

Also been here since the day after neeld was hired . Been here Longer than most .

I said nothing offensive except suggesting someone tries not to allow others opinions affect their day. Some sage wisdom and nothing else .

 

[Jaded No More 60,157]

2 minutes ago, Gillies said:

I actually find this forum too sensitive and apologetic at times . Opinions should be owned unapologetically without fear of offending anyone . I honestly don’t care if I offend someone if I have an opinion and a reminder that if you don’t like what’s typed then don’t read it. It’s only a footy forum. 
 

 

 

 

 

You can have your opinion. You can’t be disrespectful, rude or racist in expressing your opinion 

If you find this place too sensitive you can log off. 
 

[leave it to deever 16,590]

14 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Ah, no! Cerra, Walsh and McKay to come in

Oliver to get back to 100% and Fritta back will help.

But our fwd line is a big  issue compared to theirs .

[IRW 1,294]

6 hours ago, Nairobi_Demon said:

The way I see it, we still haven’t reached our full potential in those matches but have shown glimpses of those gears and what they can deliver. I’m confident we’ve got the fitness to use those gears come September this year. 
 

My biggest fear is a wet September 😬

So it was the rain on Saturday that  meant they couldn't be bothered shifting into top gear for a game that would have established 2nd place with a modicum of security?

That's weird imo

[leave it to deever 16,590]

It's also one of the closest seasons I can remember with even bottom teams bringing their best and knocking off faves.

 

[Jaded No More 60,157]

14 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Ah, no! Cerra, Walsh and McKay to come in

The thing is, Carlton won that game with their pressure. Those 3 players don’t bring that same pressure. McKay comes in at the expense of a small and is not great at ground level. Cerra and Walsh win a lot of the ball but they don’t play a high pressure negative midfield role. 

They probably replace someone like Dow or Cunningham who had 27 and 31 pressure acts respectively. Cerra and Walsh only average 20 pressure acts per game as an example. McKay is hovering around 9 pressure acts per game, which is average for a key forward, but IMO he makes their forwardline less potent. 
Of course they are great players who win clearances and kick goals, so undoubtedly they make Carlton better. It’s whether or not they help Carlton maintain the manic pressure that’s won them games that I question. 

[beelzebub 22,741]

13 hours ago, Roost it far said:

The game is not on 2 centre clearances. Winning them can be down to the bounce of an oval shaped ball. I watched our defence withstand a withering start by a confident and pumped Carlton. I then watched an arm wrestle that in the end could have fallen either way. As I said I’d back us 95/100 to win that game. But you don’t win them all. Fritsch back is exactly what we need. I’ll back an undersized, mobile attack in good weather at the G. I’m a believer because we’re a bloody fantastic side. 
it wasn’t the game because Salem, ANB and Petracca all just missed in the dying minutes. 

And yet strangely is WAS won right at those centre clearances. 

Goody at the 3/4 running interview said all but that...in a fashion. We WOULD have to come out and address x y and z ...

At the risk of shocking some i dont blame Goody for those opening 5 mins... how could you...  he wasn't out there... Those that were got Blitzed... and by the time we actually got our game going....the very one Simon suggested moments earlier thatvwe would have to implement...  was all but too late.

I'd be careful ( anyone ) suggesting we'll simply do better in finals than they.  That WAS a finals intensity game.... theyve been ramping up to this..   tbh...we wax and wane ..   When we blink others score. 

We won an earlier outting against Carlton by denying them their desired 50 entries.. that stymied them.  They turned the tables on us and did just that.. A big difference though is many other teams have been playing and entrenching their forward craft..patterns built on non-bombing..  I reality were a bit late to the party with 'better' fwd footy.  ...and it showed once they had THEIR wall up.

And anyone thinking games arent about missing goals ??.   Well then if the converse ...kicking goals is the ideal.... then logically missing them is a reason you lose.

Edited August 14, 2023 by beelzebub

[bobby1554 1,170]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

And yet strangely is WAS won right at those centre clearances. 

Goody at the 3/4 running interview said all but that...in a fashion. We WOULD have to come out and address x y and z ...

At the risk of shocking some i dont blame Goody for those opening 5 mins... how could you...  he wasn't out there... Those that were got Blitzed... and by the time we actually got our game going....the very one Simon suggested moments earlier thatvwe would have to implement...  was all but too late.

I'd be careful ( anyone ) suggesting we'll simply do better in finals than they.  That WAS a finals intensity game.... theyve been ramping up to this..   tbh...we wax and wane ..   When we blink others score. 

We won an earlier outting against Carlton by denying them their desired 50 entries.. that stymied them.  They turned the tables on us and did just that.. A big difference though is many other teams have been playing and entrenching their forward craft..patterns built on non-bombing..  I reality were a bit late to the party with 'better' fwd footy.  ...and it showed once they had THEIR wall up.

And anyone thinking games arent about missing goals ??.   Well then if the converse ...kicking goals is the ideal.... then logically missing them is a reason you lose.

Exactly! And it has been an issue for most of the year. Scoreboard pressure is a mighty thing. Goes a long way to absorbing teams that bring manic pressure like the baggers and pies. Just kick the f.....n goals Dees!!! What a want to see Sunday arvo? An absolute flogging. Jesus wept, make a statement boys.

[Gawndy the Great 8,043]

4 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I reckon the Suns might catch Carlton on the weekend. Suns midfield is very good, and they’ve been super impressive up there. Carlton have played a lot of footy on adrenaline and atmosphere. That’s not exactly a calling card for Heritage Stadium. Will be a good watch. Miller will go to Cripps and they’ll back in Anderson and Rowell.

I agree with this in theory. We know there are two Suns sides, it depends on which ones turns up. With Carlton now becoming some crazy people's flag favorites, i hope the spooky Stephen King gets them going to try and knock off a contender on an 8 game winning streak. But there is also an equal chance that the boys are already in post season break / holiday planning mode and will roll over. 

Hopefully Dimma is confirmed during the week and word circles back to the playing group, that some will be playing for the careers or risk being traded to WC or North Melbourne. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,101]

I don't think so.

I think we have certainly had some fortune in playing some teams with a few injuries, but so have they, against us? Massive, long-term outs with Clarry, Petty, Fritter (none of whom are mugs), Gawn for a period, certainly helped others.

Some of our games have given us more anxiety than I think we deserve, but I also don't think we need to be going 100% ALL THE TIME, as that's how we burn out/cop unnecessary injuries. 

Barring something untoward against the Hawks (they are traveling well), we will finish top 4 for the 3rd year in a row. Maybe even top 2 if Port drop one, and we win both. That's really good. Aside from a clear forward line issue, we are in a better position coming into final than we were last year (although forward line was an issue then, too), with team fitness and peaking at a better time. 

Looking at the losses we've had - we have lost by a total of 70 points across 7 games (10 per game!) - which if you remove the Bombers game (27pt loss - which I never want to know about again - we were horrid and they played the best game of the year) - it's 43 points across 6 games - being basically a goal. That's fantastic. I think we dropped a few that we should have won, such as GWS (ugh), but largely it has been teams who have played out of their skins to beat us, and even then, only by a goal! (i.e. the Blues - where you can argue we were failed by ARC, Port - and in particular Butters who will poll a thousand points for that game, the Lions up there - which we nearly stole), the Bombers and to a lesser extent the Cats who overran us in the last. The competition is VERY close. 

BTW, if you want to compare cumulative losses for the top 5 - Pies (86/4 = 21.5), Lions (152/6 = 25.3), Port (213/6 = 35.5) and the Blues 212/8 = 26.5) - we are FAR AND AWAY the more competitive team. It takes a hell of a lot to beat us, and frankly most of the time we beat ourselves!

But we have largely done what we needed to do. 

I'd LOVE Petty back, or another forward to emerge as we come into the finals, but other than that I have confidence that our group is doing well and will continue to improve at the right time. 

[58er 5,730]

17 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

As I’ve stated I didn’t watch the game, spoke to my mate (Pies supporter) who did, and he said he got plenty of it but understandably far from his best as would be expected from someone who just missed 10 weeks, did some good things but come finals will be back to his devastating best.

Exactly WHY didn't you watch the game Bombay? Occupied or MFCSS? 

[Kozzie4PM 765]

3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

You can have your opinion. You can’t be disrespectful, rude or racist in expressing your opinion 

If you find this place too sensitive you can log off. 
 

Do you reckon adding that meme at the bottom of your post fits in with your criterion of not being rude and disrespectful? 

[Docs Demons 1,693]

Back to the forum topic. IMO our form has been pretty good. Can be better but I know one thing and that is, if we bring the pressure to the Hawks like we did against Carlton, it will be a one horse race. Pressure , pressure and more pressure and the forward entries will follow and hopefully some decent forward entries to our forwards advantage. Be nice wouldn't it?