POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[SPC 2,937]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

I’m far from sold that this is the right move. 

I think Oliver’s return made our mids look off last night as they adjusted but I can’t see how adding another small forward helps any issue we have. Particularly one like Spargo who doesn’t get much ball or hit the scoreboard much. 

We have too many inside mids and perhaps with Hibbo a starter next week, one too many small defenders. I think JJ goes out, Hibbo comes in. Bowey might need to be moved further up the ground. He looks very shaky with the high ball coming in. 
 

[Macca 16,173]

2 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

There is no way any other team in the country withstands that first quarter from Carlton like we did. 

But aren't we a contender for the flag, DZ?

It should have been Carlton withstanding our team playing like we know we can

Or at least matching their offense and inside 50 entries

We're not a bottom 4 team anymore.  So we are the team that should be blowing teams out of the water early

It was a low scoring game but the difference between the teams was our offence not being up to scratch and our team not being able to cope with their pressure

We allowed them to skip away and then spent the next amount of time clawing our way back ... which is admirable but don't let them skip away

The first 3 goals of the last quarter is a classic example of what happened and why we lost

We fought it out well but the expectations are a lot bigger than that.  Fighting it out well is a given for our team these days

[titan_uranus 22,776]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

But aren't we a contender for the flag, DZ?

It should have been Carlton withstanding our team playing like we know we can

Or at least matching their offense and inside 50 entries

We're not a bottom 4 team anymore.  So we are the team that should be blowing teams out of the water early

It was a low scoring game but the difference between the teams was our offence not being up to scratch and our team not being able to cope with their pressure

We allowed them to skip away and then spent the next amount of time clawing our way back ... which is admirable but don't let them skip away

The first 3 goals of the last quarter is a classic example of what happened and why we lost

We fought it out well but the expectations are a lot bigger than that.  Fighting it out well is a given for our team these days

I think this is an unreasonably high bar. 

In a competition as even as this year, expecting us to set the running every week against every opponent is too much. 

It’s understandable and acceptable for us to experience opponents dictating games for periods. They dictated last night for longer than us, so we lost, but that’s what happens when two good sides play. 

[WalkingCivilWar 33,435]

30 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

For anyone that has doubt about the goal umpires call last night listen to the ABC audio interview with Marchbank - it  is clear as day that he did not touch it. 

It happened right in front of us. So close that I could’ve reached out and touched it myself. It was NOT touched.

While we were packing up a security guy who’d been sitting on the boundary at a perfect angle making his an ideal vantage point, told us he really feels for us and that the decision was a travesty. And this guy’s a diehard Carlton fan. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by WalkingCivilWar

[Binmans PA 26,498]

15 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I’m far from sold that this is the right move. 

I think Oliver’s return made our mids look off last night as they adjusted but I can’t see how adding another small forward helps any issue we have. Particularly one like Spargo who doesn’t get much ball or hit the scoreboard much. 

I agree with the bolded part, but the first half saw us lose territory because we allowed the release handball repeatedly inside our A50, due to Kozzy playing higher. Our forward balance was out. This IMV, was less about Petty being out for Grundy and more because we had one less small forward being able to lock the ball in our forward half, at least between the wing and our goal.

From memory, you were saying earlier in the year that we were playing too many small forwards and we needed an extra mid. I could get more on side with that minus Oliver, but we need to trust that our mids can find synergy again and Oliver, Viney, Gus, Sparrow, Trac and Kozzy are enough mids in these matches. With mid support higher up the ground from ANB, Rivers and even Salem.

I'd play ANB and Spargo as high half forwards that play as wingers (our speed forwards) and play Chandler, Kozzy and Trac deep at the feet of JVR and TMac. Playing those high half forwards also means we defend really deep, leaving heaps of room to slingshot back. The reason this didn't look as good during the middle part of the season, was we where clearly struggling with fatigue and an inability to transition quickly back offensively.

I think the FD holds this same view, which is why they changed it up when it became obvious the set up didn't work as well with fatigue. But now that we're heading towards the finish line, this has been our preferred set up for 3 years and I think we should and will revert to it.

Spargo's form at VFL level is irrelevant to me. He just needs to play his role at half forward and our game flows from there if we can match the opposition for CP.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Binmans PA

[Dusty_Hill 184]

2 hours ago, binman said:

 

I'm going to watch the replay tonight, and I'll spew if the commentators don't call our the appalling umpiring the way they did foe the two over the boundary like call in the cats pies game.

Don’t eat fish or anything else that will stink the house up then beforehand 😂

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,011]

Carlton played the best possible game they could, we didn't have a great night all over the park and still created enough opportunities to grab the win. 

Lets not even discuss the clear non goal, just have to wait and win our next 2 and Bris drop one.

[Demon Dynasty 15,971]

29 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Spargo will replace a mid, ie JJ. We're playing too many mids now. 

Too many inside mids Bin.

Woe if he plays out of his skin today would be the ideal exchange for JJ.  Unlikely but who knows.

Otherwise we don't really have another decent outsider that can impact at present aside from Tracc who is being asked to play a fair chunk forward.  And rightly so.

I'd still play woe and just let him learn the ropes.  Will eventually be the silk and class we are sorely missing through the middle.

The other alternative is Spargo in for JJ.  Rivers as the outside mid, keeping Hibb in the mix with him & McVee asked to play the running HB interceptor River's role as a duo.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,946]

 

[Wodjathefirst 2,423]

12 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Madness that’s how we started the game.

Great we fixed it but should never have happened in the first place.

Looking on the bright side of life, at the very least no opposition coach, (let alone us the supporters) have no idea what the line up of our side will be come finals time.  That to me is a positive.

[Ted Lasso 17,125]

At the end of the day 9/10 times when Salem roles inside 50 with Space he nails the goal and we're singing a very different tune. we withstood an amazing amount, fought back, took control and just didn't quite nail our chances. great win by Carlton, but hardly a disaster for us

[Macca 16,173]

33 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I think this is an unreasonably high bar. 

In a competition as even as this year, expecting us to set the running every week against every opponent is too much. 

It’s understandable and acceptable for us to experience opponents dictating games for periods. They dictated last night for longer than us, so we lost, but that’s what happens when two good sides play. 

Would you be saying the same thing if it was a cut-throat final, t_u? 

We are a better team than Carlton but they were better on the night.  So that is on us, we failed to execute

We were the team that needed to seize the initiative

We're a flag contender so the bar is set high.  We are no longer a bottom team

Unreasonably high?  No, it comes with the territory.  In a big game with a home QF on the line, you have to bring your best

The better team won and kudos to the Blues

I'm betting that Goodwin would not be happy with our output last night and he'd be quite concerned with our lack of marking strength up forward

Most of the finals are played at night and if those nights aren't dry, we'll need to structure up a forward line that can compete properly

Edited August 13, 2023 by Macca

[ANG13 1,589]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

My bigger fear is missing top 4.

I woke hoping my MFCSS would subside but it hasn’t. I’m genuinely concerned we’ll lose to Hawthorn next week and expose ourselves to needing to beat Sydney to avoid slipping out of the top 4 altogether. 

I think 4th is more likely than 3rd though. 

I understand your fear and I still have a bad case of MFCSS but I don’t see this team losing three in a row. 

[binman 39,088]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

My bigger fear is missing top 4.

I woke hoping my MFCSS would subside but it hasn’t. I’m genuinely concerned we’ll lose to Hawthorn next week and expose ourselves to needing to beat Sydney to avoid slipping out of the top 4 altogether. 

I think 4th is more likely than 3rd though. 

Fourth means a home final.

Weird to hope for fourth.

[binman 39,088]

13 minutes ago, Dusty_Hill said:

Don’t eat fish or anything else that will stink the house up then beforehand 😂

I might watch it sans sound.

[leave it to deever 16,190]

Is it not inconceivable to put a couple of cameras on the goal posts themselves. Or one camera on the goal umps head. My son doesn't  use his go pro anymore.

The reviews of standard tv coverage is farsical. I mean how much do small high def camera cost these days? 

Why have reviews when the coverage is so often inconclusive?

[binman 39,088]

I'm at Princess Park.

Not a breath of wind.

Ground looks in perfect condition.

The boys have just run onto the ground. Tmac looks in good nick.

Tomo looks in great nick.

My anger has subsided over the umpiring last night (venting on dl helpful)

All is good with the world.

Go dees.

Edited August 13, 2023 by binman

[Deecisive 1,663]

my 2 cents worth we seemed to do well when grundy went into the centre bounces last night, especially in the last quarter.  Without Grundy in the side we are totally dependent on Max. He is always being double or triple teamed and bashed around the head and pushed off the ball (with no frees from the umpires). When the opposition scores a point we kick out to the left side of the field everytime, the opposition has two or three players blocking pushing and harrassing max which can often leave him out of the marking contest, so the oppositon mark it. I think we can play both. max and grundy may need to spend a little time in the forward or even half forward to allow them to play up the ground a little more. They cannot do much worse than some of our other forwards who had 6 or 7 disposals for the game.

The way i saw it last night we were outclassed in the first quarter but we contributed to that. Twice in the first quarter Kozzie got the ball and kicked it straight to an opposition player all by themselves. one kick was after an amazing mark. We turned the ball over too many times, i think i saw of disposal efficiency at around 54% at one stage. which means almost every second time we get the ball we disposed of it badly, that is what did a lot of damage to us. 

The umpiring was as poor as i have seen in a while at one stage 3 carlton players were tackled in a row and everyone of them disposed of the ball badly, worse than Oliver's Throwing the ball free and nothing. and i dont know how any umpire could ignore Rooyes legs being taken out from under him, yet we have multiple umpires ignore it. But umpiring aside we lost it from poor disposals in the first half, we just dont seem to be able to put 4 quarters together. we have bursts of good play but also bursts of going to sleep for a quarter or so.

Carlton dodged a bullet last night, the umpire if he thinks a Calton player might have touched, clearly shows he is unsure so the benefit of the doubt should go the kicker, it should not be up to the replay to prove something that the umpire 6 meters was not sure of. 

Hopefully how the ALF will spend  the $'s to install ring cameras on each goal and point post to improve their monitoring.

[YearOfTheDees 3,118]

1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

Pies might rest a few they cannot lose top spot....

They need one more win. 

[Dee Zephyr 18,020]

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

But aren't we a contender for the flag, DZ?

It should have been Carlton withstanding our team playing like we know we can

Or at least matching their offense and inside 50 entries

We're not a bottom 4 team anymore.  So we are the team that should be blowing teams out of the water early

It was a low scoring game but the difference between the teams was our offence not being up to scratch and our team not being able to cope with their pressure

We allowed them to skip away and then spent the next amount of time clawing our way back ... which is admirable but don't let them skip away

The first 3 goals of the last quarter is a classic example of what happened and why we lost

We fought it out well but the expectations are a lot bigger than that.  Fighting it out well is a given for our team these days

I take each week as I see it Macca. For whatever the reason, Carlton had the game on their terms in the first. I, like most think our backline did an outstanding job in that quarter, not many teams could’ve held up like that. Just giving them credit, that’s all.
At one stage they flashed the inside 50 count up on the scoreboard in the second, Blues had almost 30 more, in the end it was 53-48 their way. 
I said earlier in the thread we had the momentum heading into the last change and the first 5 mins of the last is what lost us the game unfortunately.
 

[dazzledavey36 49,362]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm at Princess Park.

Not a breath of wind.

Ground looks in perfect condition.

Tmac warming up.

All is good with the world.

Good chance for the likes of Schache and McDonald to have a day out.

[Willmoy1947 3,814]

I'm putting this incident of blatant cheating up there with Maradona's "hand of God Incident"....

[Gawndy the Great 7,714]

20 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It happened right in front of us. So close that I could’ve reached out and touched it myself. It was NOT touched.

While we were packing up a security guy who’d been sitting on the boundary at a perfect angle making his an ideal vantage point, told us he really feels for us and that the decision was a travesty. And this guy’s a diehard Carlton fan. 

And it’s going to cost us a home final by the looks of things. 
 

 

[BDA 20,637]

1 minute ago, Willmoy1947 said:

I'm putting this incident of blatant cheating up there with Maradona's "hand of God Incident"....

Maradona definitely touched it.

 

[Macca 16,173]

Yes, 4th spot is staring us straight in the face (and a home final vs the Pies without Mr Wonderful)

So steel ourselves for a win against the Hawks and that should be enough. Port win today and the equation is on it's way to being completed

Ultimately, we'd get to rest a few starters against the Swans and then get another week off with the pre-finals bye weekend

Freshened up for an assault in September

So the loss last night gives us some clarity.  2nd spot is just about out of our reach especially if Port wins today

But of course, it's one week at a time