On 17/07/2023 at 18:46, Hawny for Gawny said:

McVee to put Rankine in his pocket, after what he did to Charlie I want him on Izak

While his game was great and he got the rising star he hasn't got nearly enough credit for his 1v1 job on Cameron.

Charlie had 7 possessions for two goals and McVee saved a couple of certain goals, there was a moment in that first quarter where Cameron beamed off a lead to a reasonable delivery with at least an 80% chance to mark overhead and Judd managed to get enough of a hand to it to effect the contest. I was so impressed because it was an open 50 and he HAD to make that play.

If it were Tom Stewart they would have talked about his game on all the shows. 

This is where the hot streak keeps gaining momentum. We will crush their midfield, our backline will stay robust and our forwards will continue to build synergy. Dees easily 30+

  On 18/07/2023 at 00:08, binman said:

"Suddenly, the Crows are not the inside 50 marking team that they were in the first half of the year, they are losing more 1v1 contests and have lost their accurate touch in front of goal"

Mmm, i wonder what might explain their drop off?

Struggling with 'connection issues', scoring dropping off, losing one on ones, their  elite accuracy strangely gone? Not sure why, but that all sounds very familiar.  

 

In all seriousness, this article makes my point about why it is so ridiculous the footy media don't factor in fatigue into their analysis of where teams are at, PARTICULARLY when trying to explain a seemingly unexpected, difficult to understand, sudden drop off in form and scoring power. 

If the author of that article had at least included the possibility fatigue from loading might be a contributing factor in their form drop off, at least Crows fans (and anyone else for that matter) could choose to consider and/or reject that idea.

And for pete's sake, their head of fitness is Burgess and the dees had exactly the same drop off when he was our fitness guy, so it hardly takes much of leap of journalistic logic to at least speculate about fatigue and loading. 

 

I thought this 8-10 week loading program was about getting top4 teams to peak in finals - why would Burgo do that for the Crows?

Sorry, B, but I literally laughed. Someone needs to replace don Quixote’s windmills for loading programs… 

  On 18/07/2023 at 00:31, rpfc said:

 

I thought this 8-10 week loading program was about getting top4 teams to peak in finals - why would Burgo do that for the Crows?

Sorry, B, but I literally laughed. Someone needs to replace don Quixote’s windmills for loading programs… 

Did you watch the gws crows game?

  On 18/07/2023 at 00:53, binman said:

Did you watch the gws crows game?

A little bit when GWS swamped them. I just don’t think the Crows are that good. Their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates in my view. That’s mainly what i attribute the sloppiness too - not a good team yet.

  On 17/07/2023 at 23:30, Sydee said:

Fair enough but I'll take performance over structure any day. ATM he is only getting selected because we do not have a better tall forward option - more a reflection of our lack of fit talent in that part of the ground than his current form. 

It continues to be our single biggest weakness IMO if we had any of Hawkins, Cameron, McKay, Curnow, Walker, Allen or Larkey we'd probably be premiership favorites.  

I haven't given up on Jefferson but realistically he is at least 2 years away from potentially impacting and never going to be a big strong contest player (more in the Fritta mold). JVR obviously has a bright future but a genuine big strong forward is still a big whole in our list IMO. That is the reason they seem keen to try to reinvent Grundy. 

 

Your points are valid, I just think two tall forwards are better than one, as long as he's competitive. 

  On 18/07/2023 at 00:11, Deespicable said:

Adelaide will be dangerous given they must pick off one of their next three - us, Power or Lions at Gabba - to stay in the race.

Assuming they go with their three-pronged attack of Walker, Fogarty and Thilthorpe, then we need a tall defender - so welcome back Tommo. As an aside, selectors decided for the Cats game that Petty's past form on Cameron was more important than Tomlinson's previous win on Hawkins two years earlier before his knee injury - that ultimately forced Tommo out. But Petty's form and injuries mean that this time he not only needs a couple of weeks off to rest his ribs/shoulders, he also needs to find form and confidence in the reserves before coming back just before the finals.

Smith is another good option for Fogarty, but I reckon he's more important as the sub because he can now play either end.

It's been great to see Jordon get a good run the past two games and he deserves to stay until Olly returns and even then he might stay if we can restructure by sending Sparrow or Bowey forward and Angus back.

Ben Brown was handy early last week but looked sore as he ran around in final term. If he's injured, then we can't rush Grundy back in without some form up forward for Casey, but we do have Schache. JVR is a kid, so we have to play him again and again and then send him back for a week or two in VFL. He's our future.

It would be a big call to bring in Moniz-Wakefield on the back of that win, but agree we need to trial him in weeks ahead as he now seems to be playing high-level at VFL. But I can't see it happening this week at the expense of Spargo. As for Chandler fans, just be grateful he got a three-year contract and 14 consecutive games.

Woey deserves another go to see if he can bed down a spot and end our days for four small forwards in our line up. Trac has already shown the value of having big-bodied small forwards crumbing and flying for marks as opposed to the classy but ineffectual smalls. 

So for me, it's OUT: Petty (inj) and possibly Brown (inj). IN: Tomlinson and possibly Schache.

BBB looked the same last week in the second half, I think he's still building game day fitness.

  On 18/07/2023 at 02:36, loges said:

BBB looked the same last week in the second half, I think he's still building game day fitness.

BBB is playing bone on bone..so it's difficult either to play out a game or to build fitness .  

Possibly he needs a chop out on the bench each quarter with Smith to be the alternative target to JVR

His kicking for goal is what he brings to the team

Edited July 18, 20231 yr by IRW

I know we like to play 'speed forwards' who are there to crumb and apply pressure, but the inability of Pickett, ANB and Spargo to compete in the air is a concern. Just rewatching the replay against Brisbane, the trio gave away frees or were out marked way too often in Q2 and Q3. I don't see us winning a flag on the MCG with that combination because the extra space means every player need to be able to compete in the air at times.

I would like to see us trial three hybrid forwards (Petracca, Melksham and Smith) and two key forwards ( in the last 6 games who can compete in the air, crumb and apply pressure. Maybe Chandler could come back into the side, but he needs to find form and hit the scoreboard.

That said, I think Petracca should start in the centre bounce most times and drift forward.

  On 18/07/2023 at 02:09, rpfc said:

A little bit when GWS swamped them. I just don’t think the Crows are that good. Their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates in my view. That’s mainly what i attribute the sloppiness too - not a good team yet.

Right.

As funny as the loading jokes are, I wasn't making a case a factor in the crows form is fatgue - though I believe that to be the case (i watched the whole gws game and it was crystal clear halfway thru the third they were out of gas - and they basically stopped to a walk in the last. They had a 17 point lead at 3 quarter time and were always going to get reeled in - they lost by 14, meaning a 5 goal turnaround, and could only manage 1 scoring shot, a point, to the giants' seven scoring shots).

I was making the point that an article that discusses their drop in form that doesn't at least ask the question if fatgue from loading might be a factor is doing crows fans a disservice. Particularly when Burgess is their fitness guy. I mean c'mon.

You have at least had the opportunity to consider if fatigue from loading is a factor because of the discussion on here.  And you have decided it isnt. Which is your prerogative. 

But surely if you were a crows fans you'd like to get a sense of the possible causes of their drop off.

The closest that article comes to positing any theories of the cause is 'the declining form of Rankine and the undisciplined actions of Rachele' and noting Tex didn't get a touch in the second half of the gws game.

Otherwise it is just a typical shopping list of stats that point to the symptoms not the cause.

Maybe you are right, and the issue is simply that the Crows are not that good, their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates.

Maybe, despite the fact you could see with your eyes they were gassed and the clear parallels to the impact of loading on the dees under Burgess and his acolyte,Selwyn Griffith (eg accuracy drop, scoring drop, losing games when fav etc etc) you are right and fatigue from loading is not a factor.

But surely it is worth including the possibility it might be so readers can decide for themselves and perhaps do what you have done and reject the idea loading is a factor. Or perhaps think, gee that's interesting  - I'll give that some thought 

Otherwise it is not even in the conversation.

 

 

  On 18/07/2023 at 02:36, loges said:

BBB looked the same last week in the second half, I think he's still building game day fitness.

He can't build fitness his knee/s shot - this has already been confirmed by Goodwin. 

Look he is obviously a really nice fella and tries his best but let's be really honest he actually hasn't been a real force in this competition since 2019 (aside from a few brief cameos). 

He is 31 later this year and is clearly finding it more and more difficult physically. I would be surprised if he is playing next season which again is one very strong reason it is important to try getting Grundy to function more efficiently as a forward.

Chandler was dropped for over a month of poor form and hasn’t shown a change in the 2’s yet. 

no point in bringing him back in until he gets some form back

  On 18/07/2023 at 04:13, Sydee said:

He can't build fitness his knee/s shot - this has already been confirmed by Goodwin. 

Look he is obviously a really nice fella and tries his best but let's be really honest he actually hasn't been a real force in this competition since 2019 (aside from a few brief cameos). 

He is 31 later this year and is clearly finding it more and more difficult physically. I would be surprised if he is playing next season which again is one very strong reason it is important to try getting Grundy to function more efficiently as a forward.

Tend to agree.. Expect Benny to retire EOS.. a much valued and respected Premiership player ( who knows...maybe twice )

Tommy might struggle also but might be a bit 50/50.

The club is manufacturing contingency as we speak.

  On 18/07/2023 at 00:08, binman said:

fatigue from loading

Whimper.

  On 18/07/2023 at 03:31, binman said:

clear parallels to the impact of loading on the dees under Burgess and his acolyte,Selwyn Griffith

Which didn't happen, but carry on.

  On 17/07/2023 at 10:00, Sydney_Demon said:

I would probably bring Bailey Laurie in as I think he's more of a Spargo like-for-like although Andy Moniz-Wakefield probably applies more tackling pressure.

No Bailey Laurie won’t be at the MFC next year so no chance he plays 

  On 18/07/2023 at 06:50, Billy said:

No Bailey Laurie won’t be at the MFC next year so no chance he plays 

Speculation or source? He's contracted for 2024 so needs a trade.

  On 18/07/2023 at 03:31, binman said:

Right.

As funny as the loading jokes are, I wasn't making a case a factor in the crows form is fatgue - though I believe that to be the case (i watched the whole gws game and it was crystal clear halfway thru the third they were out of gas - and they basically stopped to a walk in the last. They had a 17 point lead at 3 quarter time and were always going to get reeled in - they lost by 14, meaning a 5 goal turnaround, and could only manage 1 scoring shot, a point, to the giants' seven scoring shots).

I was making the point that an article that discusses their drop in form that doesn't at least ask the question if fatgue from loading might be a factor is doing crows fans a disservice. Particularly when Burgess is their fitness guy. I mean c'mon.

You have at least had the opportunity to consider if fatigue from loading is a factor because of the discussion on here.  And you have decided it isnt. Which is your prerogative. 

But surely if you were a crows fans you'd like to get a sense of the possible causes of their drop off.

The closest that article comes to positing any theories of the cause is 'the declining form of Rankine and the undisciplined actions of Rachele' and noting Tex didn't get a touch in the second half of the gws game.

Otherwise it is just a typical shopping list of stats that point to the symptoms not the cause.

Maybe you are right, and the issue is simply that the Crows are not that good, their talent is young or very old and that fluctuates.

Maybe, despite the fact you could see with your eyes they were gassed and the clear parallels to the impact of loading on the dees under Burgess and his acolyte,Selwyn Griffith (eg accuracy drop, scoring drop, losing games when fav etc etc) you are right and fatigue from loading is not a factor.

But surely it is worth including the possibility it might be so readers can decide for themselves and perhaps do what you have done and reject the idea loading is a factor. Or perhaps think, gee that's interesting  - I'll give that some thought 

Otherwise it is not even in the conversation.

 

 

They were probably gassed in addition to not being very good. Their bodies are probably not as seasoned as older teams are but I haven’t done enough analysis of where they are at in terms of the 22 and years in the system.

And of course I understand the aerobic programs that teams run throughout the year - I just don’t think in a comparative league that it has the implications on performance like you do. All teams lift their training intensity around the bye weeks or longer breaks. Even when Ainslie up here was ever present in the NEAFL - we used to schedule aerobic blocks in bye weeks to try to get up to where Sydney and Brisbane were. So it is real, but maybe the fatigue of a long season on young legs is determinative? Depends on the team.

Look at the Dees atm - we are working through forward connection issues that have led to dropping a back up ruck, brining in our number 1 tall, bringing in Melksham, and encouraging run and dare that is sputtering. I know you see that differently to me in terms of a diagnosis of our issues but it probably just be a matter of degrees.

No change keep the winning team together.

  On 18/07/2023 at 07:19, old55 said:

Speculation or source? He's contracted for 2024 so needs a trade.

Source, is pretty disappointed with not getting much of a chance at the top level.

In my opinion l don’t think he’s up to it anyway 

  On 18/07/2023 at 07:30, Billy said:

Source, is pretty disappointed with not getting much of a chance at the top level.

In my opinion l don’t think he’s up to it anyway 

I think that's fair, but I also don't think we would trade him for peanuts unless we think he really is not up to it.

  On 18/07/2023 at 07:48, Jaded No More said:

I think that's fair, but I also don't think we would trade him for peanuts unless we think he really is not up to it.

Or we need the list spot

Not the place to discuss Bailey Laurie but we simply have too many of the same type of player (small half forward) with no one of them being a standout. AMW is another.

Laurie form at VFL level seems to have plateaued but it can sometimes be hard to judge in that comp.

List decisions are still several weeks off though

 

  On 18/07/2023 at 07:50, rpfc said:

Or we need the list spot

No BBB or TMac would surely open up list space 

  On 18/07/2023 at 09:33, IRW said:

No BBB or TMac would surely open up list space 

Again, would you retire if you were a chance to play in this team? Unless of course we are delisting and just eating the salary