On 6/14/2023 at 10:57 AM, Abyssal said:

Absolutely, I well remember Southby, Dench, Moore, etc, not only keeping their direct opponent goal-less but also winning the ball and clearing it with great effect.

However, a defender who has had little or no disposals himself yet kept their opponent goal-less IMO would have needed to beat his opponent “one on one”which would have required many effective spoils.

I include that in the definition of “winning the ball”.

Has a defender who has kept  H. McKay Goal-less , 8 behinds and 20 disposals had a Great game ?

 

 

What about Chip Frawley in his all Australian year with us? Never got heaps of it and wasn’t the best kick but his ability to get one on one and judge the ball in flight was unmatched, his closing speed was also a major asset.

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

In 1858 did player just stand around in position after the had a disposal?

Do they do that now?

...

You can value it differently, that’s fair enough, but if you don’t even understand it then you do need to watch and think about games differently.

Agree, but it's very hard to notice if the only opportunity to view games is via TV. What the hard runners like Neal-Bullen do isn't really observable on TV. On the other hand it was very noticeable at the ground on Monday, particularly in the last quarter. At one moment Neal-Bullen is in the back pocket and the next on the wing; he's chasing an opponent and then is suddenly providing an attacking option. It's actually quite enthralling watching him play, just for the way he switches so quickly from defence to attack and back again.

And he's not the only one. 

18 hours ago, old55 said:

If Port can beat Geelong, as they should this week, we'll have the opportunity to inject a world of hurt into them the following week and send them to 6-8, then needing to go 7-2 to make finals.

When was the last time they missed the finals with their soft draws? Must be a while.

With losses against GWS, Tigres and Fremantle in recent weeks they are definitely questionable.

Interesting odds atm with Cats 1.72 and 2.10 Dees.

I have a Cats friend who is OS atm and says hes not bothering with the H&A and will just get the AFL App for the finals. Oh the arrogance. Love it. (I should ask him who he will be following?). :)

1 minute ago, Wadda We Sing said:

When was the last time they missed the finals with their soft draws? Must be a while.

With losses against GWS, Tigres and Fremantle in recent weeks they are definitely questionable.

Interesting odds atm with Cats 1.72 and 2.10 Dees.

I have a Cats friend who is OS atm and says hes not bothering with the H&A and will just get the AFL App for the finals. Oh the arrogance. Love it. (I should ask him who he will be following?). :)

Pretty safe strategy overall during the last 15 years or so.

2 hours ago, adonski said:

You can't give me two IN, with an OUT, your Lordship! 

I can't argue with that.

ANB IS NOT GETTING DROPPED 

Edited June 15, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Agree, but it's very hard to notice if the only opportunity to view games is via TV. What the hard runners like Neal-Bullen do isn't really observable on TV. On the other hand it was very noticeable at the ground on Monday, particularly in the last quarter. At one moment Neal-Bullen is in the back pocket and the next on the wing; he's chasing an opponent and then is suddenly providing an attacking option. It's actually quite enthralling watching him play, just for the way he switches so quickly from defence to attack and back again.

And he's not the only one. 

I appreciate your comment about ANB, LDVC. As someone who lives interstate - and for that reason is rarely able to get to games - my assessment of running players like ANB is obviously clouded by what i can physically see on the TV. What i rarely get shown are his running efforts. This is unfortunate, because the running efforts of someone like Langdon are often highlighted. So, whether you get to the game or not, you understand and get to appreciate what Langdon does for the team. One explanation for this maybe that Langdon is usually very clean in his ball handling, so when he is involved, usually good things happen, and thus they are highlighted. On the other hand, when ANB is involved, he is rarely clean and assured in his ball handling - often resulting in stoppages or turnovers - so his running efforts are not highlighted. Thus, he doesn't often get the credit he deserves.  ANB is an A-grade runner, an A-grade tackler, and a first-rate team player - no questions. But because his ball handling skills are not anywhere near the same level as his other attributes - and as this is what generally gets shown/highlighted on TV - it's no wonder posters can be critical of him.

On 6/14/2023 at 11:59 AM, old55 said:

It's an attractive option but the question remains the same with this configuration - what's the total 22?  As @speed demon posted above - you're going to need to leave someone vital out to achieve it - someone like Sparrow or Brayshaw.

There's a lot of Petty in, Bowey in, Oliver in but not a lot of who out.

Maybe poor Bowser doesn't get back in . With Salo and Hibbo in form, it's tough to get a gig.

Sparrow and Spargo from KB allows Petty and Oliver back in.

Not ideal outs but it's shows we finally have some strong competition for spots.

On 6/12/2023 at 7:17 PM, Jaded No More said:

For mine is Spargo out and Clarry in. We are playing one too many smalls up forward who aren’t giving us enough. 

Hard squeeze with Bowey unless we want to rest Hibbo again. 
Petty is obviously a walk up start too if he’s fit. But he may not be?

Tough selection week. 

Yep, time for a Spargo rest ... Clarry in, hopefully, and JJ onto the bench as Emerg. Smith should stay in - he appears to be on a roll, and has lots to offer in attack, forward defence, creative plays. Somehow we need to consider Bowey into the equation, probably from the bench as well. We can beat the Cats at their home - run them off their feet and attack, attack, attack. 

On 6/14/2023 at 10:34 AM, Stu said:

I’d love to see this structure given a try, as I think it’s very dynamic and could be a challenge for a lot of teams to match up on. 
 

Petty, JVR, Fritsch, Smith, ANB, Kossie, and Chandler. 

On 6/14/2023 at 11:06 AM, Deebauched said:

Maybe team selectors bring back Bowey and thats about it. One small fwd omitted but JJ Smith Tomo stay put.

On 6/14/2023 at 12:16 PM, In Harmes Way said:

think the makeup of the side could look like this:

Forwards:

Key forwards: Fritta, JVR, Petty, Smith (in place of Spargo)

Smalls: Chandler, Neal-Bullen, Kossie

On 6/14/2023 at 1:43 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

In simple terms we need 4-5 goals a week out of the three small fowards. This weekend we got 4 behinds which probably should have been 3 goals. As a group they are not contributing anything near what they did in the early rounds when it was probably around 6 goals.

 

Obviously for Clayton (and Petty / Bowser) to make it in we need to drop some player so maybe Spargo is on the chopping block.

But I find it incredible that so many posters saying one of Spargo / ANB / Chandler / Kozzie need to be dropped.  They may not have kicked goals but that isn't their role in the team - it is providing the pressure (17 I50 tackles compared to the pies 4) which means the opposition can't exit the defence.  This is probably the most crucial aspect of our gameplan as everything falls into place once we're doing this well.  We have been elite in this aspect of the game the last two week - and posters here want to change it up?

I'd rather tell Bowey and Petty they need to come back through the VFL than be messing with our current forward mix.  And maybe it's Sparrow / Brayshaw that need to make way for Clarrie?

Most likely injuries will occur so all of these players will get their shot in any case... but the defensive pressure created by our small forwards is so underrated on this site.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 6:44 PM, Demonland said:

The Demons have earned a well earned rest during the bye week and will head down the Princess Freeway as they are required to every year to take on Geelong at GMHBA Stadium in a bid to embed themselves into the Top 4. Who comes in and who goes out?

Hi Andy, I apologise, but 50 years of journalism has made me something of a pedant. There is no such road as the Princess Freeway. The road between Melbourne and Geelong (indeed, between Sydney and Adelaide, of which Melbourne to Geelong is but a portion) was, when the various existing roads were linked up in 1920, originally named the Prince's Highway in honor of the visit of the Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII the Abdicator). Subsequently the name was bastardised by the bureaucracy (NSW 1993, Vic 2010) to the Princes Highway (as if there were more than one prince involved) and, more recently, following upgrades, the Princes Freeway. Not a girlie in sight, I'm afraid. I see this as another slight on the important but humble apostrophe, which is succumbing to the old Death by 1000 Cuts. Hardly anyone knows how to use the apostrophe these days, which can't help when people are trying to make themselves understood in posts on Demonland. Wouldn't you agree?  GoDees!  

I doubt Petty will play after such a lengthy lay off.

11 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

I doubt Petty will play after such a lengthy lay off.

You mean like Lipinski, who hadn't played since last year's PF.

45 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I appreciate your comment about ANB, LDVC. As someone who lives interstate - and for that reason is rarely able to get to games - my assessment of running players like ANB is obviously clouded by what i can physically see on the TV. What i rarely get shown are his running efforts. This is unfortunate, because the running efforts of someone like Langdon are often highlighted. So, whether you get to the game or not, you understand and get to appreciate what Langdon does for the team. One explanation for this maybe that Langdon is usually very clean in his ball handling, so when he is involved, usually good things happen, and thus they are highlighted. On the other hand, when ANB is involved, he is rarely clean and assured in his ball handling - often resulting in stoppages or turnovers - so his running efforts are not highlighted. Thus, he doesn't often get the credit he deserves.  ANB is an A-grade runner, an A-grade tackler, and a first-rate team player - no questions. But because his ball handling skills are not anywhere near the same level as his other attributes - and as this is what generally gets shown/highlighted on TV - it's no wonder posters can be critical of him.

The disposal efficiency measurement is interesting. Langdon has a higher disposal efficiency than ANB, however ANB is bang on AFL average. ANB also has a higher disposal efficiency than Kozzie! I would consider Kozzie a far more skilled player, but according to the stats ANB is more skilful. It's not the best stat to use to measure a lot of players. For ANB's role, I'd suggest pressure acts, tackles, and score involvements are key measurements. For those stats, from what I can find he's top 5 in each category at the club again this season. He's clearly having a decent impact and will not be dropped anytime soon. In fact, going by impact stats, he's borderline top 10 at the club this year. Will be interesting to see how high he finishes in the BnF...

35 minutes ago, GOLORDIE said:

Hi Andy, I apologise, but 50 years of journalism has made me something of a pedant. There is no such road as the Princess Freeway. The road between Melbourne and Geelong (indeed, between Sydney and Adelaide, of which Melbourne to Geelong is but a portion) was, when the various existing roads were linked up in 1920, originally named the Prince's Highway in honor of the visit of the Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII the Abdicator). Subsequently the name was bastardised by the bureaucracy (NSW 1993, Vic 2010) to the Princes Highway (as if there were more than one prince involved) and, more recently, following upgrades, the Princes Freeway. Not a girlie in sight, I'm afraid. I see this as another slight on the important but humble apostrophe, which is succumbing to the old Death by 1000 Cuts. Hardly anyone knows how to use the apostrophe these days, which can't help when people are trying to make themselves understood in posts on Demonland. Wouldn't you agree?  GoDees!  

Would you believe it was autocorrected?

I created the thread whilst walking from the G to Richmond station amongst a throng of people so accidents happen.

49 minutes ago, GOLORDIE said:

 I see this as another slight on the important but humble apostrophe, which is succumbing to the old Death by 1000 Cuts. Hardly anyone knows how to use the apostrophe these days, which can't help when people are trying to make themselves understood in posts on Demonland. Wouldn't you agree?  GoDees!  

They must be very accurate cuts. Perhaps a microtome?

42 minutes ago, Redleg said:

You mean like Lipinski, who hadn't played since last year's PF.

Or Salem who last played in last year’s finals campaign before coming back in on great form in recent weeks. If Petty is fit he plays seniors, don’t know where or for who though…

57 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

I doubt Petty will play after such a lengthy lay off.

I agree. We don’t need to rush him back.  He was playing well in the game he was injured in but his form leading up to that wasn’t great. Let him get fitness and form for a week or two at Casey. 
Smith has to get another game after his performance. 

Would love bowey up forward, he’s a freak set shot.

Love kozzy, but he’s too talented to be there only for defensive running. Needs to fire up. He’s lacking composure, and the weekly Speccy attempt needs to stop. The latest one on Big Freeze day where he fell over trying to mark 5 deep was just ridiculous. 

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Would you believe it was autocorrected?

I created the thread whilst walking from the G to Richmond station amongst a throng of people so accidents happen.

Weird way to celebrate a heart-stopping win over Collingwood but, whatevs. 😂

bit nervy about this game. we need to kick straight firstly if we are to have a chance to win this one. i cant go this week so will be watching at home with beers.

6 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Weird way to celebrate a heart-stopping win over Collingwood but, whatevs. 😂

The best is when the game was terrible and the POSTGAME and VOTES threads appear before the final siren. 😄

Edited June 15, 20231 yr by layzie

9 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Weird way to celebrate a heart-stopping win over Collingwood but, whatevs. 😂

The website always comes first.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

You mean like Lipinski, who hadn't played since last year's PF.

Would you say players usually come straight back in after a lengthy lay off?

Have been an advocate of Kozzi having a spell in the Casey's so as to refocus on a front and centre small role and desist from positioning himself behind packs and attempting MOTY launches. For mine he is wasting a core talent of reading the fall of the ball and using his speed to create space for an  effective disposal.  I had been thinking Clarrie in for Kozzi out - big call I know but with the intent of getting Koz right for the run home and finals.

Watched the replay - enabled a review without the absolute edge of the seat angst and tension  of game day that translates into exasperation at lost opportunities such as the outcome of the ball being launched out of our 50 post plays like another Kozzi failed speccy. While I'm still steadfastly against Koz trying to play tall, I was able to see his chasing, pressure and team spirit. He's not too far away - a couple of small adjustments and he'll be carving up opposition again soon.

Clarrie in Charlie out.