POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs Walyalup

[YearOfTheDees 3,266]

Got the train down yesterday, three and a half hour journey. Was a family on the train with four young kids all wearing Hawks Jumpers. Remember think you're in for a long trip home and I'm going to be happy as. Got that well and truly wrong. 

[titan_uranus 24,970]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Those numbers are distorted by our last quarter

We won CPs in every quarter except the third when we lost by 3.

Clearances though we lost in each quarter except the last.

That’s interesting in itself though - it wasn’t a comprehensive failure at contest but it was another game where we had enough contested ball but conceded too many exits from stoppages (and then couldn’t stop them scoring from those exits).

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

6 hours ago, adonski said:

We run like we're stuck in mud

Agreed. That Brisbane fella we brought in is not even a patch on Burgess.

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

2 hours ago, demon3165 said:

 Yze has not impressed me as a midfield coach, and don’t get started on Stafford, but Goody has the total control. 

A perfect summation right there.

[Jack Vineys Anger Manager 393]

16 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Actually our defence is pretty good still

I think it's the area of the ground we can fix straight away. It's our biggest strength atm, granted, but we were afl#1 for points against in the last 2 years, playing with 3 talls. We are currently #6. It's only a few goals a game worse, but when you lose games by 11, 4 and 7 points, it matters. In the entire 2022 season we conceded 70+ points 12 times. This year we have conceded 70+ points 7 times in 11 rounds. I get we are scoring more, but the balance is off against the better teams. We need full team defence to improve these numbers but, May being the back stop, Lever intercepting, another tall doing his job makes us better. Why Goodwin would tinker with a back 6 that has soul destroyed teams in the last few years is beyond me. It's cost us games imo. Put players in their best positions. I'll hold faith we can get it right.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,163]

15 hours ago, A F said:

People will hate it, but Selwyn Griffith said on the Demonland podcast, that by this stage, players are starting to fatigue badly.

Layer on the possibility that we're targeting the Collingwood game to be blistering (think that St Kilda game in Round 8 last year), we could well be managing players that fatigues them in the Freo and Carlton games and causes 15-20 intercept mark spills, suddenly poor accuracy and poor disposal and decision making...

I'll say this, if we beat the Pies I'll go into the bye full of confidence even if we lose to Carlton this week.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,163]

5 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Sure, but every time we come up against it by a lesser side such as Freo we should be able to withstand it and beat them. We don’t, we roll over and die, starting with Gawn. 

It's not even about withstanding pressure, it's about being able to turn things around so we take the ascendency and put the pressure back on them. This is something we've been unable to do all year, we allow the opposition to play the game on their terms (in the games we've lost at least).

[Dr. Gonzo 24,163]

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

This is still something I think is a massive problem with our supporter base. 

Too many on here have their expectations so high - it seems you expect us to not just beat, but dominate, all sides except, what, Collingwood, Brisbane and Port?

It doesn’t work like that. It never has. 

It’s a separate issue altogether to discuss the parts of our game that aren’t working but defining failure as small wins over mid-table sides sets you up for a season of disappointment. 

It's not the margin, it's the way we're playing. I'm one of the first to say you don't play perfect football, it's not a video game etc But if we want to be the team we think we should be (and the players and coaches clearly think they should be too) then we should be able to dictate the play against teams like Freo.

Obviously it won't work every week but that's now 4 games out of 11 where we've allowed the opposition to dictate play and get the points and 3 of those 11 games are against bottom of the ladder opposition. So in half our competitive games we've been dictated to by the opposition and been unable to change the flow of play to wrest back momentum. That is not a good record for a team looking at contending for the flag this year (and not a good record for a team with the talent we have).

[beelzebub 23,313]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'll say this, if we beat the Pies I'll go into the bye full of confidence even if we lose to Carlton this week.

You think it possible to beat Collingwood after we lost to Carlton.......  very interesting 🤔🙄🤔🙄

[Dr. Gonzo 24,163]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You think it possible to beat Collingwood after we lost to Carlton.......  very interesting 🤔🙄🤔🙄

I didn't say that's what I think would happen, I said if we beat the Pies my perspective on the season will change even if we lost to the Blues this week

[YearOfTheDees 3,266]

Ive only had the one tip right so far this weekend and that was the AFL sanctioned W/C freebee. 

[beelzebub 23,313]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I didn't say that's what I think would happen, I said if we beat the Pies my perspective on the season will change even if we lost to the Blues this week

I sort of get it...

However if we lose Friday.... there's NO winning on KBW

[D Rev 628]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not the margin, it's the way we're playing. I'm one of the first to say you don't play perfect football, it's not a video game etc But if we want to be the team we think we should be (and the players and coaches clearly think they should be too) then we should be able to dictate the play against teams like Freo.

Obviously it won't work every week but that's now 4 games out of 11 where we've allowed the opposition to dictate play and get the points and 3 of those 11 games are against bottom of the ladder opposition. So in half our competitive games we've been dictated to by the opposition and been unable to change the flow of play to wrest back momentum. That is not a good record for a team looking at contending for the flag this year (and not a good record for a team with the talent we have).

I have a lot of sympathy for this sentiment.  The way we are playing is worrying, genuine excuses could be made of a relatively new look team (McVie, JVR, no Brown, no Petty and now no Oliver) and a new game style, but execution is still troubling.

Some of the moments of confusion out there (Harmes cutting off JVR, Spargo cutting off Fritter) as well as the goal kicking are particularly worrying.  Still, they are things that can be addressed.

The depth isn't something that can be addressed at this point and players like Harmes really shouldn't be given the opportunities he is getting.  Schace is obviously not to AFL standard either and won't be after this long, we need to move these players on and get more kids in.  Is Brown done?

Langdon has seemed off all season and I wouldn't mind giving him the chance in the VFL to get some form and give Woewoeden a go.  TMac had a better game yesterday but I'd still like Smith to be given a chance too.

One point that should be considered too is the standard of the competition.  Port *just* beat us and have now won 8 in a row?!  We *just* beat the Suns and they *just* beat the in-form Dogs in the NT (not easy to play there).  Hawthorn, who we smashed, just beat the Saints who started the season on fire.

Apart from West Coast, the competition is really even.  Different teams will peak at different times, and injuries are going to play a massive part.  We have to accept that we aren't going to win 18 games for the season and will lose a few like this.

I reckon we will match up well with Carlton, our big backs negating their big forwards and our all-ground pressure being too much for the rest of them.  Go Dees.

 

 

[layzie 33,748]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'll say this, if we beat the Pies I'll go into the bye full of confidence even if we lose to Carlton this week.

It wouldn't be ideal but I agree it could change everything in a heartbeat.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Call me crazy but i've been wondering  do we roll the die this week and rest big Maxy in prep for KB?

Freshen him up, get him super primed and ready to rumble on the big stage.

Just run with Grundy mostly in ruck with a few chop outs from Rooh at CBs & forward 50 stoppages.

He will also get the buy after to freshen up for a big tilt at the 2nd half of season.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demonsone 2,034]

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

A perfect summation right there.

Yze & Stafford we’re part of the premiership coaches, unsure if they have dropped the ball though, still put it on the playing group ad the complete hunger is there which all the 1% get executed, are they waiting for someone else to do it? 

[Roost it far 8,176]

Just now, Demon Dynasty said:

Call me crazy but i've been wondering  do we roll the die this week and rest big Maxy in prep for KB?

Freshen him up, get him super primed and ready to rumble on the big stage.

Just run with Grundy mostly in ruck with a few chop outs from Rooh at CBs & forward 50 stoppages.

He will also get the buy off after to freshen up for a big tilt at the 2nd half of season.

That’s what a smart coach would do, Goodwin will play him

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

You think it possible to beat Collingwood after we lost to Carlton.......  very interesting 🤔🙄🤔🙄

I don't think he meant this year...............on a lighter note i hope all those blokes who think the umpiring has been satisfactory and cannot be blamed for us losing, you will be able to see ALL the ones that were missed  by our maggots picked up and paid in most of Sunday's games.......enjoy

[BDA 22,735]

14 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Call me crazy but i've been wondering  do we roll the die this week and rest big Maxy in prep for KB?

Freshen him up, get him super primed and ready to rumble on the big stage.

Just run with Grundy mostly in ruck with a few chop outs from Rooh at CBs & forward 50 stoppages.

He will also get the buy after to freshen up for a big tilt at the 2nd half of season.

Does he need a rest? He missed 3 games due to injury already this year so shouldn't be tired.

[Superunknown 4,210]

6 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Could not believe this. I can accept that mistakes are made by the umpires, but that decision made me think that the AFL need to start penalising umpires for particularly egregious calls like that one. 
 

Agreed, easily one of the contenders for worst umpiring decision of the season so far. 

The umpires need to be paid professionals and if they make bad mistakes they get performance managed - down to umpire VFL and no AFL match payment 

[Adam The God 30,121]

19 hours ago, Beetle said:

If someone can please explain to me what Viney’s role was in the first half that’d be great.

if he was ‘supposedly’ tagging Brayshaw with 2 stats v Brayshaws 16 then that is a monumental coaching fail.

Oliver out and you send our number 2 contended ball winner to a tag when Harmes is in the team? Jesus Christ.

I reckon it's more likely he was being tagged by O'Meara. Port also tagged Jack. 

He wasn't up to scratch yesterday, but would be very surprised if there wasn't a tag on him.

[Go the Biff 3,414]

23 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Call me crazy but i've been wondering  do we roll the die this week and rest big Maxy in prep for KB?

Freshen him up, get him super primed and ready to rumble on the big stage.

Just run with Grundy mostly in ruck with a few chop outs from Rooh at CBs & forward 50 stoppages.

He will also get the buy after to freshen up for a big tilt at the 2nd half of season.

Why would you do that  ? Kings Birthday gets massively overrated on here.  It's one game worth 4 points just like any other. 

I'd much prefer to beat those black and white bastids in September rather than June. 

[Pennant St Dee 13,106]

6 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Some perspective on Goodwin's coaching and team performance 2021 -2023

MFC in top four 55 out of 57 rounds

MFC top of the ladder on 24 of those rounds

Forget logic, as others have said the list is not as great as people think. It’s a good list but not at the level some think.

We’re not firing currently there are concerns but there are signs of potential and good passages of play. Just need more consistency and a few to step up with greater output and not just show glimpses.

Things are never as good as they seem - we won a flag with a consistent year and everyone playing their role It wasn’t because we were loaded with a generational list that was about to start a dynasty despite our 10-0 start last season.

and things are never as bad as they seem- the season isn’t over a review of season 2018 & 2021 had periods just like this and we finished them strong heading into September.

Flags are really difficult to win, a lot has to go right and there is an element of luck involved.

The group needs to reset get back to basics team first and not to panic.  No time to start listening to outside noise and rumour just do your job

 

[Fat Tony 5,217]

 

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

27 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Yze & Stafford we’re part of the premiership coaches, unsure if they have dropped the ball though, still put it on the playing group ad the complete hunger is there which all the 1% get executed, are they waiting for someone else to do it? 

Gotta get over the whole premiership thing. Adapt or you’re going backwards. 

You question the playing group and they’re waiting for things to happen. I reckon the entire MFC is being far too conservative in all their operations. In what areas are we being proactive? It certainly isn’t on-field with the coaching and playing group, and it isn’t when it comes to finding a home base.

Organisation-wide we are simply treading water.