David King First Crack

[binman 43,813]

20 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Honestly, I think this is where the game is messed up at the moment.  I've seen Brisbane target Max in much this same way and sorry, but I think it's completely BS.

Players stand their ground in the wrong way or don't have their hair brushed properly in a marking contest and it's called a free kick as interference / shepherding.  Max get's essentially shepherded miles off the ball repeatedly all night and that's ok?  You can guarantee if Max pushes the player out of the way in its instant free kick against and (would often be 30 - 50m out from the oppositions goal for kick in scenarios), yet his opponents are allowed to do the same to him all night.  Can't tell me with 4 umpires out there, they can't see/police it.  He's our main target at kick outs so you'd think the umpires would see at least some of it.  One way or the other.

There's definitely one rule for Max and another for our opponents.  The Daniels 3rd qrt GF sling tackle which would have 4 weeks for any Melbourne player, but no free for Max is case in point.

Time Goodwin actually took a public stand and held the umpires to account.

Spot on.

All of it - particularly the need for a public statement from the club (personally id prefer it come from the CEO or President, but Goody works too).

[Roost it far 8,627]

King rolled out some stats and vision  against us tonight. I’d like him to show every other clubs numbers split like he split ours. 

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

20 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

King rolled out some stats and vision  against us tonight. I’d like him to show every other clubs numbers split like he split ours. 

The demons have been the media darlings for 2.5 years now, I think it’s great this team is starting to get some negative press.  We aren’t playing good football, we have so many deficiencies in our game, our core leaders (Gawn, Langers, Brayshaw, May, Lever) are all down on form.

I watched us live against GC suns & Lions in QLD, our forward pressure is non existent, our midfield looks second to the ball, team connection isn’t firing defensively which creatures scoring shots, we’re vulnerable down back currently.  It doesn’t look like we’re hungrier then the other teams (Lions, Bombers, Port all out hustled us.

It only gets harder without Oliver and Petty unavailable, a positive is we’re sitting 4th and we aren’t playing that well.

we don’t want to be playing our best footy in May but it will define our season if we’re poor.  Massive 3 weeks, cannot wait to see how we respond.

Edited May 24, 2023 by BrisbaneDemon

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

7 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

King rolled out some stats and vision  against us tonight. I’d like him to show every other clubs numbers split like he split ours. 

The stats don’t lie, but you can certainly pick and choose them in a particular way to tell a story that suits your narrative.

End of the day we are 7-3 and not performing against the top teams. We can complain about travel and short breaks and this and that, but the quality of our footy tells the real story. It is all there for us to see. If you take out the bottom 3 of the comp we are 4-3, middle of the road which is about right.

I harp on about the next 4 games as they are critical in setting us up for a tilt at the flag - don’t have to peaking,  it our game, our brand should start to come through. Right now there are worrying signs there. 

Anything less than or equal to 2-2 , we will finish outside of the 4 and won’t challenge.

3-1  well make top 4 and will give it a shake. 

4-0 is top 2 territory and will reinstate a lot of belief and we’ll be right in it. 

The games are tough, very tough. But Geelong are gettable given their form and injuries. 

Put in a 4 quarter effort against the Pies and who knows.

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

King rolled out some stats and vision  against us tonight. I’d like him to show every other clubs numbers split like he split ours. 

Sorry, but those stats were damning. 

As King said, taking away the 3 incredibly poor teams that we've played this year and we're poor for some critical stats that have made us top 4 quality team the last 2 years.

It's concerning for me because since the 2nd half of last year we've been poor against the top teams and it's creeping into this year already. The stats showed that tonight.

Edited May 24, 2023 by dazzledavey36

[beelzebub 23,383]

7 hours ago, ManDee said:

One of the most effective ways of upsetting a dirty player without getting reported is to pinch them, hard. They lose their 💩

Where ??? ..... 🤔🙄

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Sorry, but those stats were damning. 

As King said, taking away the 3 incredibly poor teams that we've played this year and we're poor for some critical stats that have made us top 4 quality team thr last 2 years.

It's concerning for me because since the 2nd half of last year we've been poor against the top teams and it's creeping into this year already. The stats showed that tonight.

Yep - I’m not sure what more evidence we need. As I said above the next 4 will make it crystal clear as the Doggies and Swans games were noteworthy performances but are difficult to gauge in the overall scheme of things and cloud our true form line, but lose either Freo or Carlton games and we are just about done.  

 

[layzie 34,013]

After watching back some of the replay I counted Max getting his head targeted at least 3 times 

[Great Northern Summer 708]

10 rounds is enough of a sample size to make fairly concrete observations.

Everything King said tonight was fact. I'd be surprised if those things were not already pulled apart by the coaching group. King is an interesting one though - only last week he was saying the logical person would have Melbourne as Premiership favourite and claimed we looked so hungry and brutal. Amazing how much a controversial 4 point loss changes all of that. If we hung on, he's still be singing our praises.

The positive is teams generally learn and take more away from a close loss than a win, which often cover over cracks. Hopefully that game, in particular, ends up holding us in good stead over the next four weeks and rest of the season.

We are fortunate to be 4th with a good percentage, with plenty of upside to improve deficiencies. We are also fortunate we get North and Hawthorn again at the end of the season. We just need to make the next 4 games count.

 

 

[ManDee 7,222]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Where ??? ..... 🤔🙄

You can use your imagination! No, not there. Anywhere on the torso and away from the genitals. (According to a friend)

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

fwiw, max talked about being hit in the head, repeatedly, on the gus & gawny podcast where the special guest this week was jeff farmer 

[Rivers Run Red 187]

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

King rolled out some stats and vision  against us tonight. I’d like him to show every other clubs numbers split like he split ours. 

Thought it was a pretty fair reflection of where we are at. Down on contested ball, bleeding in the back half, struggling at stoppage.

Particularly liked the reference to the brutality of 21 and early 22, id love to see us destroy a contender (somewhere around june 12 preferably).

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Our season took a turn downward last season in Rd 11, with what was considered a surprise loss.  Will the opposite occur this season in Rd 11, same venue and the same opposition.

 I don’t mind where we currently stand, we will learn a lot about some of our players in the next few weeks.

[Adam The God 30,421]

11 hours ago, Glorious Day said:

10 rounds is enough of a sample size to make fairly concrete observations.

Everything King said tonight was fact. I'd be surprised if those things were not already pulled apart by the coaching group. King is an interesting one though - only last week he was saying the logical person would have Melbourne as Premiership favourite and claimed we looked so hungry and brutal. Amazing how much a controversial 4 point loss changes all of that. If we hung on, he's still be singing our praises.

The positive is teams generally learn and take more away from a close loss than a win, which often cover over cracks. Hopefully that game, in particular, ends up holding us in good stead over the next four weeks and rest of the season.

We are fortunate to be 4th with a good percentage, with plenty of upside to improve deficiencies. We are also fortunate we get North and Hawthorn again at the end of the season. We just need to make the next 4 games count.

 

 

King is precisely like many Demonlanders. He flip flops from week to week and jumps between negative narratives of each football club to drive viewers, clicks and subscriptions.

Our season thus far is no different from Geelong's last year. The next 4 weeks will tell us more. If we go 2-2 or even 3-1, we'll be in a strong spot. If we don't, then these narratives hold some water.

Edited May 24, 2023 by A F

[Adam The God 30,421]

9 hours ago, Rivers Run Red said:

Thought it was a pretty fair reflection of where we are at. Down on contested ball, bleeding in the back half, struggling at stoppage.

Particularly liked the reference to the brutality of 21 and early 22, id love to see us destroy a contender (somewhere around june 12 preferably).

Bleeding in the back half? Really? FMD, righto. 

[fr_ap 2,529]

King's stats are good for discussion - hopefully they've been compiled the right way in the background. He says our general contest win rate drops to 10th without WCE, Haw and NM - presumably when calculating a #10 rank, they have also stripped WCE, Haw and NM away from other teams that have played 1, 2 or 3 of them and re-ranks them as well. In which case - for the teams that haven't played any (Collingwood), or only played 1 (Lions) or 2 (PA), their ranking includes data from a greater number of games. This won't lead to totally wrong conclusions for a % based stat like contest win rate - but when he quotes scores from stoppage that are cumulative - I'm not sure how it's been compiled and the methodology gets tricky. Presumably those are averages, but -50 scores from stoppage doesn't sound like an average. -160 from D50 stoppages doesn't sound like an average either.  

Long story short, pulling these rankings in the middle of the year when not every team has played one another is inherently flawed. Throw in the effect of Home Ground Advantage, uneven travel schedules and significant injuries - you get the drift. 

There are also a good number of positive metrics you could also mention depending on what narrative you are seeking to create. We are:

•  #1 in Inside 50s
• #2 in Goal Assists
• #1 in Total Scoring
• #4 in Disposal Efficiency
• #3 Tackles i50
• #2 Contested Possession
• #1 Goal accuracy
• #1 Intercepts

Yes - we've had the benefit of playing WCE, Haw and NM which no doubt helps many of these stats. Port have played 2 of those teams and are top 4 in some of those stats, but not all. Brisbane have played 1 of those teams and again are top 4 across a different set of statistics.

I agree to my (negatively biased) eyes there is a lot that looks off, but truthfully mid-season, it's all guesswork with incomparable bodies of work and evidence being gathered in entirely different circumstances for different teams. 

The W/L column (which itself is a result of fixture) is the only thing that matters at the moment and we are still sitting top 4. Big tests to come. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by fr_ap

[Rivers Run Red 187]

2 hours ago, A F said:

Bleeding in the back half? Really? FMD, righto. 

Should've been more specific. Stat was for D50 stoppages. My bad.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Can someone post the stats David King was talking about?

@fr_ap’s post above is spot on - stats done as totals make no sense if our sample is 7 games compared to Port’s 8 or Brisbane’s 9.

I accept we’ve had the three easy games but we’ve also had Brisbane in Brisbane, Port in Adelaide, GC on the GC, the Dogs and Richmond in prime time (where they tend to do better). That slate of games is tough, so it wouldn’t surprise if we’re middle of the road for key stats. Clearly we need to improve but I suspect Collingwood are also middle of the road (in fact on SEN the other night they were mentioned as being 14th or worse in a number of key offensive stats). 

Edited May 25, 2023 by titan_uranus

[Rivers Run Red 187]

58 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Can someone post the stats David King was talking about?

@fr_ap’s post above is spot on - stats done as totals make no sense if our sample is 7 games compared to Port’s 8 or Brisbane’s 9.

I accept we’ve had the three easy games but we’ve also had Brisbane in Brisbane, Port in Adelaide, GC on the GC, the Dogs and Richmond in prime time (where they tend to do better). That slate of games is tough, so it wouldn’t surprise if we’re middle of the road for key stats. Clearly we need to improve but I suspect Collingwood are also middle of the road (in fact on SEN the other night they were mentioned as being 14th or worse in a number of key offensive stats). 

It was where we rank in the comp (which I hope is averages not totals)

Scores from stoppages, we are #7 in the comp, or #14 if we exclude the easy kills

General play contested ball wins, #5, down to #10 (we've been #1 last 2 seasons)

Defensive 50 stoppage was the poorest as we are #18 already.

Regardless of the comparisons between easy/hard teams, we are down in all 3 metrics.

[binman 43,813]

4 hours ago, A F said:

Bleeding in the back half? Really? FMD, righto. 

After ten rounds of football we have conceded the third least point against, behind the Pies (who have won 2 more games) and the Saints, and we are bleeding in the back half?

How then to describe what's happening with the other 15 defences? 

What's next - we are struggling to score despite being the highest scoring team in the AFL?

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

After ten rounds of football we have conceded the third least point against, behind the Pies (who have won 2 more games) and the Saints, and we are bleeding in the back half?

How then to describe what's happening with the other 15 defences? 

What's next - we are struggling to score despite being the highest scoring team in the AFL?

It's as though the aggrieved only watch our games, and disregard, or don't have a bead on other teams🤷‍♂️

[binman 43,813]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Can someone post the stats David King was talking about?

@fr_ap’s post above is spot on - stats done as totals make no sense if our sample is 7 games compared to Port’s 8 or Brisbane’s 9.

I accept we’ve had the three easy games but we’ve also had Brisbane in Brisbane, Port in Adelaide, GC on the GC, the Dogs and Richmond in prime time (where they tend to do better). That slate of games is tough, so it wouldn’t surprise if we’re middle of the road for key stats. Clearly we need to improve but I suspect Collingwood are also middle of the road (in fact on SEN the other night they were mentioned as being 14th or worse in a number of key offensive stats). 

I think i'm right in saying that a couple of weeks back, the Pies were 18th for score from turnover (we are number one).

This is a guess, but i doubt any team has won a flag without being at least top 10 in scores from turnover because teams are twice as likley to score from a turnover than a clearance and therfore is it a more important score source. 

And it's not as if the Pies are killing it in clearances either -  they are 10th in total average clearances. We are 15th in total average clearances, but interestingly 3rd in centre clearances (pies are 11th).

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

Edited May 25, 2023 by binman

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

No matter how you look at it, we need to get better at defending forward 50 stoppages for the opposition. Even if we got that to inside the top 10 of the comp it’d be a huge improvement. This seems like an easy fix for Yze and the defensive coaches.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

14 minutes ago, binman said:

I think i'm right in saying that a couple of weeks back, the Pies were 18th for score from turnover (we are number one).

This is a guess, but i doubt any team has won a flag without being at least top 10 in scores from turnover because teams are twice as likley to score from a turnover than a clearance and therfore is it a more important score source. 

And it's not as if the Pies are killing it in clearances either -  they are 10th in total average clearances. We are 15th in total average clearances, but interestingly 3rd in centre clearances (pies are 11th).

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

AFL AVG = 37 clearances

Coll = 36.4

Melb = 34.8

#1 = 41.7 Bris

 

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

17 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Where ??? ..... 🤔🙄

Agree with this, another used to be is come in  from the side for a mark, and ride the hip, always hurt, and another was to fake a mark playing in front when in one on one getting as close as possible to opponent, taking off early and purposely impeding his knees and consequent take off with your studs. Worked a treat.