On 14/10/2023 at 08:31, Binmans PA said:

I think we'll be able to find a spot for him in our forward half just quietly.

McVee May Lever

Salem Tomlinson Rivers

Langdon Oliver Hunter 

Petracca Petty Fritsch 

Pickett JVR Reid

Gawn Viney Sparrow

Brayshaw Neal-Bullen McAdam Bowey

Smith or Howes for sub.

Chandler misses out. 

Account hacked by Werridee?

  On 14/10/2023 at 06:39, Demonstone said:

Our club has made the decision to recruit Tom Fullarton.

He hasn't even arrived yet and you're already writing him off.

You're not really much of a supporter are you?

This is what baffles me. Why can’t supporters support a new player unless and until he gives them a reason not to? The ink’s barely dry and “fans” have Tom sitting in the stands watching on, or a piece of the furniture at Casey. It’s mind-boggling. 

  On 15/10/2023 at 00:27, Demonsone said:

Agree our  trades prior to 2021 flag were  great but last 2 seasons have bee misses , let’s hope 2023 brings in talent 

I never liked the Grundy deal but it was a roll of the dice with little else available and it hasn’t cost much.

Otherwise the plan seems to be to focus on 2 quality draft picks and to save cap space.

The biggest cost so far is that Oliver has gone from a prized asset to a major concern and Petty has gone from a huge part of the future to someone who’d seemingly rather be in Adelaide sooner rather than later. A couple of pretty big disasters we’ve managed to find ourselves in there.

I’d like the club to make some kind of comment on the list strategy once the trade period is done. Are we banking cap or are we just paying the bill for past performance?

And I wish it was possible to ask them why they haven’t  been more aggressive with list turnover at the back end of the list. 

 

Go dees

Edited October 15, 20231 yr by binman

  On 14/10/2023 at 23:47, Demonsone said:

My question was around trades on ready made talent eg pies brought bobby hill, mcstay , lions got Dunkley etc ours have been disastrous 

I don't disagree entirely, however, Collingwood were gifted the best player in the draft via F/S during that time, Bobby Hill was seen as inconsistent and had never really got going. Had a good season and a superb finals campaign.

McStay is just a goer and didn't even play in the GF, and struggled to get on the park this year, managing 14 of 26 games.

There's no reason McAdam can't have an impact as big as either of Hill or McStay.

As for the Lions, they too were handed one of the best players in the draft via F/S and landed Dunkley who no doubt improved their midfield.

But again, there's no reason whoever we take with our first pick this draft couldn't equally improve us structurally, like Dunkley has for Brisbane.

Edited October 15, 20231 yr by Binmans PA

  On 15/10/2023 at 02:20, DeeSpencer said:

And I wish it was possible to ask them why they haven’t  been more aggressive with list turnover at the back end of the list. 

This is the biggest concern for me too. I get that you can't move on ten players each year, but we've delisted one rookie this year.

You can't tell me that there isn't a single player in the state leagues who would offer more as a third round pick than any of Schache, Laurie or Melksham rehabbing an ACL.  

 

  On 15/10/2023 at 02:20, DeeSpencer said:

...

I’d like the club to make some kind of comment on the list strategy once the trade period is done. Are we banking cap or are we just paying the bill for past performance?

And I wish it was possible to ask them why they haven’t  been more aggressive with list turnover at the back end of the list. 

 

Can you point me to an example of a club ever commenting on list strategy in the way that you mean?

Sure, there are generic examples like "we really needed to boost or tall defender stocks and we think X will add depth in that area" or perhaps "we would have loved to have kept X at our club and offered him a contract but salary cap means we couldn't offer what he wanted" or "we have built a war chest for next year" (from a bottom side).

But anything about overall list or cap strategy?

  On 15/10/2023 at 00:32, Demon Dynasty said:

Account hacked by Werridee?

Haha, I know, sorry 🤣

  On 15/10/2023 at 02:20, DeeSpencer said:

I’d like the club to make some kind of comment on the list strategy once the trade period is done. Are we banking cap or are we just paying the bill for past performance?

Why?

I don't want the club showing their hand. Downright dumb.

'Hey, rest of league, here's our plan for next year.'

Why do some supporters think the club owes them a response at every turn? And don't give me the 'I'm a paid up member' claptrap.

It's dumb. And the club should STFU and get on with trying to win premierships, not spend their time placating neggy nuffies who [censored] the bed every time something doesn't go perfectly.

I pay my membership in monthly instalments, I demand to know what our list strategy is. 

  On 15/10/2023 at 02:56, deanox said:

Can you point me to an example of a club ever commenting on list strategy in the way that you mean?

Sure, there are generic examples like "we really needed to boost or tall defender stocks and we think X will add depth in that area" or perhaps "we would have loved to have kept X at our club and offered him a contract but salary cap means we couldn't offer what he wanted" or "we have built a war chest for next year" (from a bottom side).

But anything about overall list or cap strategy?

I’m pretty sure after 2019 at one of those member forums things Mahoney gave some details. Otherwise I’m not asking for much more than generic statements, I’d just like a rough outline of where they are at. I’ll take cliches over nothing.

  On 15/10/2023 at 03:04, Binmans PA said:

Why?

I don't want the club showing their hand. Downright dumb.

'Hey, rest of league, here's our plan for next year.'

Why do some supporters think the club owes them a response at every turn? And don't give me the 'I'm a paid up member' claptrap.

It's dumb. And the club should STFU and get on with trying to win premierships, not spend their time placating neggy nuffies who [censored] the bed every time something doesn't go perfectly.

Well, I am a paid up member. And list strategy is now a key part of future success, what’s so wrong with lifting the curtain a little bit?

After the draft we often get more insight  from Demonland Podcast interview with Jason Taylor than we ever get from any formal media he does.

In the US sports the GMs will do a proper press conference after the end of the year, free agency, draft etc. 

The AFL media go mad for trade details and Lamb responds about certain deals but what’s ever said about the bigger picture?

Even if it’s just generic; ‘we like our kids, the draft was a priority for x reason, we explored key forwards but think our existing group has upside, our cap is in a healthy place’ 

Teams around the league know who has cash and which players are available. If we were keen on Ben King for instance it’s not going to be a surprise.

  On 15/10/2023 at 04:40, DeeSpencer said:

I’m pretty sure after 2019 at one of those member forums things Mahoney gave some details. Otherwise I’m not asking for much more than generic statements, I’d just like a rough outline of where they are at. I’ll take cliches over nothing.

Well, I am a paid up member. And list strategy is now a key part of future success, what’s so wrong with lifting the curtain a little bit?

After the draft we often get more insight  from Demonland Podcast interview with Jason Taylor than we ever get from any formal media he does.

In the US sports the GMs will do a proper press conference after the end of the year, free agency, draft etc. 

The AFL media go mad for trade details and Lamb responds about certain deals but what’s ever said about the bigger picture?

Even if it’s just generic; ‘we like our kids, the draft was a priority for x reason, we explored key forwards but think our existing group has upside, our cap is in a healthy place’ 

Teams around the league know who has cash and which players are available. If we were keen on Ben King for instance it’s not going to be a surprise.

And what will it do? Make you feel better? How will it help the Melbourne Football Club?

  On 15/10/2023 at 04:42, Binmans PA said:

And what will it do? Make you feel better? How will it help the Melbourne Football Club?

Come on PA, give the man some hope.  I beg ya!

Big Kozi from hawks going to Tiges maybe. I thought we might have looked at him. maybe we did and decided on Tom F

  On 15/10/2023 at 05:26, DubDee said:

Big Kozi from hawks going to Tiges maybe. I thought we might have looked at him. maybe we did and decided on Tom F

He requested trade to the Tigers weeks ago before trade period began. Would've suited us 

  On 15/10/2023 at 05:00, Demon Dynasty said:

Come on PA, give the man some hope.  I beg ya!

I just love that church scene DD have watched it numerous times.😁😁

  On 15/10/2023 at 05:55, Lord Travis said:

He requested trade to the Tigers weeks ago before trade period began. Would've suited us 

If you’re happy with mediocre forwards, sure. 

  On 14/10/2023 at 03:08, chookrat said:

I think that WCE would want Darling's salary of $800k x 2 years off their books and so would view trading him favourably as a salary dump.

Who are they going to pay with the money?

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-west-coast-eagles

Naitanui, Shuey and Hurn all just retired along with a heap of delists:

https://www.afl.com.au/trade/list-changes

The main salary cap issue WC will have in 2024 is paying the AFL minimum.

Fremantle, Adelaide, Geelong, Essendon and Hawthorn are all proving difficult to trade with.

Edited October 15, 20231 yr by old55

  On 15/10/2023 at 02:33, binman said:

Go dees

Relax, we’ve got this

  On 15/10/2023 at 06:41, old55 said:

Who are they going to pay with the money?

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-west-coast-eagles

Naitanui, Shuey and Hurn all just retired along with a heap of delists:

https://www.afl.com.au/trade/list-changes

The main salary cap issue WC will have in 2024 is paying the AFL minimum.

Which is genuinely the worst rule in the afl.

Who cares if they can't pay 92% of the cap. Their players are no good. They shouldnt be paid that much. 

  On 15/10/2023 at 04:40, DeeSpencer said:

I’m pretty sure after 2019 at one of those member forums things Mahoney gave some details. Otherwise I’m not asking for much more than generic statements, I’d just like a rough outline of where they are at. I’ll take cliches over nothing.

Well, I am a paid up member. And list strategy is now a key part of future success, what’s so wrong with lifting the curtain a little bit?

After the draft we often get more insight  from Demonland Podcast interview with Jason Taylor than we ever get from any formal media he does.

In the US sports the GMs will do a proper press conference after the end of the year, free agency, draft etc. 

The AFL media go mad for trade details and Lamb responds about certain deals but what’s ever said about the bigger picture?

Even if it’s just generic; ‘we like our kids, the draft was a priority for x reason, we explored key forwards but think our existing group has upside, our cap is in a healthy place’ 

Teams around the league know who has cash and which players are available. If we were keen on Ben King for instance it’s not going to be a surprise.

I reckon you could write it yourself:

"We think our current list is really well placed to continue to challenge over the next few years and our aim is to make it better with top end talent.

Even though Grundy and Gawn didn't work this year, we were confident it would've worked with a bit more time, but we respect Brodie's decision to want to be the No. 1 ruck elsewhere so we facilitated his trade. We needed to replace Grundy and we're confident that Fullerton is ready to take that next step up this year and can't wait to see him out there working with Max.

One area we wanted to improve was our forward line efficiency which is why we targeted McAdam who is an elite shot for goal.

We have a few kids who we expect to challenge for senior games next year (maybe name Laurie, Howes?) and wanted to add some more elite talent.

We traded up because we thought that the players in the top X of the draft were high talent, but even still we were excited when Y was available at draft pick Z because we had him going much higher than that. He has elite Z talent. There'll be no pressure on Y to play next year but if he has a good preseason we might see him in the seniors throughout the year."

 

I'm sure that over the next 2 months there will be a bunch of interviews with those kind of statements and you can piece together your own cliche post to rival mine.

 

 

  On 15/10/2023 at 08:04, biggestred said:

Which is genuinely the worst rule in the afl.

Who cares if they can't pay 92% of the cap. Their players are no good. They shouldnt be paid that much. 

It's part of the CBA, basically the players are promised X million as part of the deal so the club's must pay the floor. It's partially because clubs like Footscray and North and possibly us were deliberately underpaying in the 90s and early 2000s to try to manage club finances.

Personally I think there are better ways to manage it:

- instead of clubs getting as large a dividend, all wages are paid by the AFL directly not by the club's, so the club's don't "save" by paying less than the cap (clubs can still pay what the play is worth, but they aren't incentivise to underpay)

- clubs can pay down to a threshold (say 92.5%) but below that all unpaid salaries go back to the AFL. That money is distributed to the players at the end of season in accordance with a formula (bonus on match payments for every player? split equally amongst every player on a list? Split proportional to actual payments? Split only to the bottom 40% of players league wide?)

 

 

I actually think the 92.5% rule makes it harder to attract FAs for lower clubs. Because you think "WCE/North or in the day us have a [censored] team so must have lots of money available for FA" but in reality they don't, they have max ~700k (the cap was $13,540,000 for the 2022 season, with a salary floor of $12,863,000).

 

  On 15/10/2023 at 08:14, deanox said:

I reckon you could write it yourself:

"We think our current list is really well placed to continue to challenge over the next few years and our aim is to make it better with top end talent.

Even though Grundy and Gawn didn't work this year, we were confident it would've worked with a bit more time, but we respect Brodie's decision to want to be the No. 1 ruck elsewhere so we facilitated his trade. We needed to replace Grundy and we're confident that Fullerton is ready to take that next step up this year and can't wait to see him out there working with Max.

One area we wanted to improve was our forward line efficiency which is why we targeted McAdam who is an elite shot for goal.

We have a few kids who we expect to challenge for senior games next year (maybe name Laurie, Howes?) and wanted to add some more elite talent.

We traded up because we thought that the players in the top X of the draft were high talent, but even still we were excited when Y was available at draft pick Z because we had him going much higher than that. He has elite Z talent. There'll be no pressure on Y to play next year but if he has a good preseason we might see him in the seniors throughout the year."

 

I'm sure that over the next 2 months there will be a bunch of interviews with those kind of statements and you can piece together your own cliche post to rival mine.

 

 

somebody hand this quote sheet to steve may

  On 15/10/2023 at 08:37, whatwhat say what said:

somebody hand this quote sheet to steve may

Honestly, I loved what Steven May said, and as a supporter it felt great. He could've qualified it by saying "We really let ourselves down with our kicking so didn't perform well enough to win BUT I think we are better than Collingwood on our day" or something, but he was a few drinks in.

That kind of personality from players is fantastic and helps build the contest!

But list strategy? No chance anything real gets discussed external to inner sanctum.