Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[dees189227 12,401]

15 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

That story Eddie just shared! OMFG. And it happened recently! If you’re not watching AFL 360…Eddie was at a public swimming pool, holding his baby with his other children playing in the pool when a lifeguard approached him and told him he has to leave the pool immediately. The reason? Because an elderly white couple complained to the lifeguard that Eddie being in the pool was making their grandkid uncomfortable!!!!! WTAF??? 

That's was horrific when I heard him telling that story. 

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

3 hours ago, Jibroni said:

Bad decision by Brisbane to stand down Fagan, what if he is cleared of these allegations?

I wonder why the ABC did not hear both sides of the story before going public. Some people in the media would want to be very careful about what they say about this. Private conversations without any evidence of the actual conversation will have every lawyer lining up on behalf of Fagan and Clarko for damages for slander. Shocking if this is fact but I tend to think there are two sides to every story, especially emotive ones.

Agree extremely serious stuff but only allegations at this stage. We havent heard the other side of the story.

The size of the lynch mob is scary.

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

An appalling read - even though procedural fairness doesn’t appear to have been afforded to Clarkson and Fagan, it’s not pretty. Not remotely.

Tell me things have actually progressed since April 1861. I had hoped they had.

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,247]

I have a concern. As far as I know , in Australia, we act under the presumption of innocence.  I am concerned that that crucial principal is getting lost in the emotion that this situation has stirred up up.

I certainly don't know the truth of this matter. Let's see what this enquiry reveals.

I will make no further comment until such enquiry is completed.

 

PS. I suggest a few others do the same.

[rpfc 28,779]

5 minutes ago, ding said:

Oh ffs, i did not at ANY stage deny that we have some historical racism. That is undeniable.

What i did take umbrage to is your insulting insinuation that because there was "white Ex-police" involved then the outcome could not have been fair.

That is complete garbage.

So that’s one of my points; you accept there has been racism in the past but refuse to engage in a specific instance where racism, or even the perception thereof, may have played a negative factor.

A panel of white former cops is not going to engender confidence in indigenous footballers to engage with good faith with an investigation because they don’t think it will be reciprocated.

Its the most benign argument I have made on here since I argued last year that Weideman might be better in the ruck.

If you don’t see the point I am making and prefer to conflate it with some sort of ‘reverse racism’ that is your tactic of deflection to use. But don’t think we can’t see it as a tactic.

Edited September 21, 2022 by rpfc

[Swooper1987 3,322]

Phil Egan, former Richmond and Melbourne player, was commissioned to write the report for Hawthorn.  He was tasked only with gaining the perspectives of the former indigenous players at the club and then offering recommendations for further consideration.  

Its author, former Richmond player Phil Egan, commended the bravery of First Nations players who shared their experiences and described the review’s contents as “unprecedented”.

“The report noted a range of recommendations for the club to address in relation to creating a culturally safe environment for all,” Egan told The Age.

“These include further and immediate investigation of the findings; reparation and compensation for the affected families if the allegations are validated; and policy and structural changes to ensure cultural safety is embedded within the club.”

Egan, an Indigenous man who played 125 games for the Tigers during the 1980s and endured his own experiences with racism in the game, said he felt privileged to have been tasked with the review because of its sensitive nature, and that Hawthorn deserved credit for commissioning it.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Swooper1987

[I'va Worn Smith 981]

I work as a volunteer behind the bar at my local sports club. Tonight, as the Hawthorn story aired on the news, I heard certain patrons refer to 'niggers' and how they don't get charged if they beat their wives. I walked out, leaving someone else to close. No racism is Oz?

Of course, the people concerned would say they were only jokin'.  It is never a joke, when you insert race into your debate, as a slur.

[ding 5,126]

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

So that’s one of my points; you accept there has been racism in the past but refuse to engage in a specific instance where racism, or even the perception thereof, may have played a negative factor.

A panel of white former cops is not going to engender confidence in indigenous footballers to engage with good faith with an investigation because they don’t think it will be reciprocated.

Its the most benign argument I have made on here since I argued last year that Weideman might be better in the ruck.

If you don’t see the point I am making and prefer to conflate it with some sort of ‘reverse racism’ that is your tactic of deflection to use. But don’t think we can’t see it as a tactic.

Gross generalisation that is straight-up racism.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

That's was horrific when I heard him telling that story. 

Right? But what’s just as sad as the story itself is the way in which he told it. No indignation, no outrage, almost with an air of resignation. 😥

[Axis of Bob 11,853]

10 minutes ago, ding said:

What i did take umbrage to is your insulting insinuation that because there was "white Ex-police" involved then the outcome could not have been fair.

This is the comment that you originally took umbrage with.

6 hours ago, rpfc said:

And this may be why having 5 white former cops in the AFL Integrity Unit (in Jimmy Carr’s voice) is maybe not the best idea…

rpfc did not say that the outcome could not be fair. He merely said that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops was not the best idea. It's entirely possible that you assumed that he was meaning what you thought he meant but it's also entirely reasonable that he didn't mean it that way. 

But there is also no doubt that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops is not the best idea. 

[DubDee 26,123]

9 minutes ago, ding said:

Gross generalisation that is straight-up racism.

 

Give it a rest mate. You’ve tried and failed to make the same point 7 times

[ding 5,126]

2 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

This is the comment that you originally took umbrage with.

rpfc did not say that the outcome could not be fair. He merely said that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops was not the best idea. It's entirely possible that you assumed that he was meaning what you thought he meant but it's also entirely reasonable that he didn't mean it that way. 

But there is also no doubt that having a panel made up entirely of white ex-cops is not the best idea. 

Not a good idea for what reason?

They cant be unbiased?

They cant come to a balanced decision?

No, the insinuation was that it wasnt a good idea because they were white and ex-police.

Neither of those reasons ( your race or employment background) should have anyone quaking in their boots unless you make some fairly large generaliisations.

It is grosly unfair to those involved.

[monoccular 17,575]

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

The burden of proof will be with Hawthorn. Hard to see this not getting very messy.

These are, at this stage, allegations, yes extremely serious allegations, but I believe we still have in Australia a presumption of innocence.   That is not in any way meant to downplay the seriousness of the allegations, which, if proven, are far worse than the despicable Essendon drug experiment.  
Will await events. 

[DubDee 26,123]

Eddie was magnificent on 360 tonight. You can sense his frustration at always having to talk about the same issue 

Well done Eddie. Your people, I’m sure, are very proud

[layzie 34,013]

16 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Phil Egan, former Richmond and Melbourne player, was commissioned to write the report for Hawthorn.  He was tasked only with gaining the perspectives of the former indigenous players at the club and then offering recommendations for further consideration.  

Its author, former Richmond player Phil Egan, commended the bravery of First Nations players who shared their experiences and described the review’s contents as “unprecedented”.

“The report noted a range of recommendations for the club to address in relation to creating a culturally safe environment for all,” Egan told The Age.

“These include further and immediate investigation of the findings; reparation and compensation for the affected families if the allegations are validated; and policy and structural changes to ensure cultural safety is embedded within the club.”

Egan, an Indigenous man who played 125 games for the Tigers during the 1980s and endured his own experiences with racism in the game, said he felt privileged to have been tasked with the review because of its sensitive nature, and that Hawthorn deserved credit for commissioning it.

Cheers Swooper. Not expecting you to know but would Phil have any relation to Leon Egan the former Indigenous liaison officer at Hawthorn?

[ding 5,126]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Give it a rest mate. You’ve tried and failed to make the same point 7 times

My point is lost on zealots. Welcome to the club.

[daisycutter 29,743]

[DubDee 26,123]

21 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I have a concern. As far as I know , in Australia, we act under the presumption of innocence.  I am concerned that that crucial principal is getting lost in the emotion that this situation has stirred up up.

I certainly don't know the truth of this matter. Let's see what this enquiry reveals.

I will make no further comment until such enquiry is completed.

 

PS. I suggest a few others do the same.

I hear you and agree Clarko and Fagan should not be unfairly judged now. 

However I also think we have the responsibility to take these allegations seriously. These guys were approached via an external review requested by their former clubs. If they wanted to slur their former club why wait 9 years? The chance of these recounts being complete fabrications are slim to none in my opinion. I think it is important we discuss the allegations. There will likely never be a moment where they are 100% proved correct or not as there is likely no physical evidence. 

[layzie 34,013]

Is there anywhere you can learn about the integrity unit and the people on it?

[DubDee 26,123]

4 minutes ago, ding said:

My point is lost on zealots. Welcome to the club.

Lol. You just described yourself

[Swooper1987 3,322]

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

Cheers Swooper. Not expecting you to know but would Phil have any relation to Leon Egan the former Indigenous liaison officer at Hawthorn?

Phil is from Robinvale.  He was actually really good mates with Jamie Siddons who is my wife's cousin.  Leon is originally from NSW I believe. Not sure of any family connection there. 

A bit of background on Phil's experiences.

https://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/football/3050896/racist-taunt-almost-dashed-career-of-a-sunraysia-footy-great

[I'va Worn Smith 981]

5 minutes ago, monoccular said:

These are, at this stage, allegations, yes extremely serious allegations, but I believe we still have in Australia a presumption of innocence.   That is not in any way meant to downplay the seriousness of the allegations, which, if proven, are far worse than the despicable Essendon drug experiment.  
Will await events. 

Agreed, but keep in mind that Hawthorn commissioned it's own, independent and external review.  Based on the results of that review, the AFL has initiated its own independent review, which will include a KC and indigenous people on the pan.

Whatever the outcome,  it is clear we still have not, as a country, addressed the concerns of our first nations peoples.  That is simply not good enough, by any measure.

[daisycutter 29,743]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Is there anywhere you can learn about the integrity unit and the people on it?

if i understand it correctly the afl integrity unit are not conducting the afl inquiry. it is to be outsourced to an an independent group the composition of which is yet to be announced

[layzie 34,013]

5 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I hear you and agree Clarko and Fagan should not be unfairly judged now. 

However I also think we have the responsibility to take these allegations seriously. These guys were approached via an external review requested by their former clubs. If they wanted to slur their former club why wait 9 years? The chance of these recounts being complete fabrications are slim to none in my opinion. I think it is important we discuss the allegations. There will likely never be a moment where they are 100% proved correct or not as there is likely no physical evidence. 

100% Dubdee, it's extremely difficult to find a counterpoint to all this right now.

[ding 5,126]

5 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Lol. You just described yourself

Thats your retort?... "I know you are but what am i"........

How childish.