Matthew Stokes on Melbourne

[McQueen 17,864]

1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Yes

Thanks, just managed to dig it up online. 

[dazzledavey36 54,923]

He's not wrong.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,820]

It's starting to look a like a "We'll learn from that" kind of year.

Hopefully the hunger will return in 2023, because it's just not there this year. We're not digging in hard enough against the best sides.

Dogs - out worked by a hungrier side. Bont willed them over the line. Who went that extra yard for us?

Geelong - the ball lived in their forward half for the last 15 minutes of the game 

Collingwood - 6 goals to 1 last quarter

Sydney - 4 goals to 1 last quarter

Fremantle - Literally gave no yelp after Fristch kicked an early  3rd quarter goal. 

 

[dee-tox 4,835]

The uncompromising ruthlessness was there against Brisbane, but has been missing in most other games. It can be brought back, but can we do it for three or four finals?

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I’m honestly finding it really hard to believe that supporters who saw what this team delivered late last year would ever question their intensity or effort.

Same position as we were in 2021, same ‘bad patch of form’ after round 19, same media pundits saying we aren’t ‘hard enough’ - and instead of having faith in the club and players that ended the longest drought in the AFL they prefer off the cuff opinions of guys who write pay per click articles.

Have a little faith ya big sooks.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

I think Stokes is taking a lot out of Fritch being a goal hog. I don't see too much wrong in terms of us being team first.

We have had five losses, four of which we had a bit of poor luck. 

Freo - May injured in the game, Petracca sick, Dockers played their best game for the season

Sydney - May out, Petty injured for 20 mins, Sydney played their best game for the season and had a great run with the umpires in the last quarter

Pies - May out, Turner concussed, Gawn injured in game, Pies played exceptionally well

Cats - Thrashed around the ball and we should have lost by more

WBD - Lever out, very even & high standard game, Dogs played their best game for the season, kicked 17.8 and had a great run with the umpires

That said, I do believe our predictability is a weakness now and we need to mix things up. Firstly I would like to see us chipping the ball around the backline a bit more and using both sides of the ground and the corridor. We also need to push more numbers to the stoppages to neutralise the outnumber. We need to get better output from Gawn, Jackson, May and Salem in particular.

[Lucifers Hero 39,779]

15 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

We have had five losses, four of which we had a bit of poor luck. 

Freo - May injured in the game, Petracca sick, Dockers played their best game for the season

Sydney - May out, Petty injured for 20 mins, Sydney played their best game for the season and had a great run with the umpires in the last quarter

Pies - May out, Turner concussed, Gawn injured in game, Pies played exceptionally well

Cats - Thrashed around the ball and we should have lost by more

WBD - Lever out, very even & high standard game, Dogs played their best game for the season, kicked 17.8 and had a great run with the umpires

Therein is the issue - other teams bring their best game against us.  We don't bring our best. 

We get away with it vs lesser teams as their best isn't good enough but the better teams beat us when we haven't brought our best which is those 5 losses.

There have been other contributors to our losses but the pattern of not bringing our best is undeniable.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[rpfc 28,417]

14 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think Stokes is taking a lot out of Fritch being a goal hog. I don't see too much wrong in terms of us being team first.

We have had five losses, four of which we had a bit of poor luck. 

Freo - May injured in the game, Petracca sick, Dockers played their best game for the season

Sydney - May out, Petty injured for 20 mins, Sydney played their best game for the season and had a great run with the umpires in the last quarter

Pies - May out, Turner concussed, Gawn injured in game, Pies played exceptionally well

Cats - Thrashed around the ball and we should have lost by more

WBD - Lever out, very even & high standard game, Dogs played their best game for the season, kicked 17.8 and had a great run with the umpires

That said, I do believe our predictability is a weakness now and we need to mix things up. Firstly I would like to see us chipping the ball around the backline a bit more and using both sides of the ground and the corridor. We also need to push more numbers to the stoppages to neutralise the outnumber. We need to get better output from Gawn, Jackson, May and Salem in particular.

Brayshaw just said on SEN that we are not doing the things we were last year.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

Just now, Lucifers Hero said:

Therein is the issue - other teams bring their game against us.  We don't bring our best. 

We get away with it vs lesser teams as their best isn't good enough but the better beat us when we haven't brought our best which is those 5 losses.

Is it realistic to expect to play your best game of the year every week? I don't think so. It takes a combination of luck (uncontrollable) as well as application (controllable) to have your best game.

My view is that application has not been an issue. Last year we had games when our application was an issue against Collingwood and North, but this year is has been a pass mark every week.

Rather, it is our game plan being worked out and, as premiers, the opposition are up for us every week.

As I said, the solution is to be a bit more unpredictable with our ball movement and plans around stoppages.

 

 

[Fat Tony 5,228]

16 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Brayshaw just said on SEN that we are not doing the things we were last year.

I think that is a revisionist view.

I think this year that the opposition are testing us with plans that we have not faced before. Apart from the second half against Freo (when May was subbed out and Petracca was ill) and the last quarter against Collingwood (when we were injury struck), I haven't felt like our effort has been sub-par.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Brayshaw pretty much confirmed this in his interview this morning.

Key takeaways for me were,

Team needs to buy into their roles for longer and hard to be ultra competitive for 25 weeks.

Take from that what you will but I am hoping the boys are preparing to go another level later in the  year when it counts.

But to the point of the story, I think teams have made it harder for us. And this is due to evolution of the game and afl house wanting fast ball movement. Injury plays a part as well. We will see what happens, good test for the team to work through the issues.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by COVID Dan

[Fat Tony 5,228]

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

The uncompromising ruthlessness was there against Brisbane, but has been missing in most other games. It can be brought back, but can we do it for three or four finals?

I know we played very well, but Brisbane played terribly and would have lost to 12 other sides that night.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

22 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Brayshaw just said on SEN that we are not doing the things we were last year.

I also hope that is the attitude of the players. It needs to be. But the coach needs to re-think our system as well because it is predictable and other teams now have a blueprint to beat us if we aren't perfect.

[rpfc 28,417]

6 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I also hope that is the attitude of the players. It needs to be. But the coach needs to re-think our system as well because it is predictable and other teams now have a blueprint to beat us if we aren't perfect.

‘Perfect’?

We scored most of goals in about 25 mins of gameplay on Sat Night. We won 10 games in a row playing a qtr of great footy a game…

Dont need anything near perfection, need consistent effort and pressure for 120 mins.

[layzie 33,796]

Is Stokes even in the media or is this some kind of backyard podcast job?

[rpfc 28,417]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Is Stokes even in the media or is this some kind of backyard podcast job?

Works for the The Age at least.

[loges 6,767]

7 minutes ago, layzie said:

Is Stokes even in the media or is this some kind of backyard podcast job?

Why , does it matter ?

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

A lot of people are getting upset at Stokes for saying stuff that makes a lot of sense.

Our patchy, inconsistent wins to go 10-0 were against lesser teams, or teams who had not yet hit their stride. 

Just look at the results. 11/13 of our wins are from the current bottom 8 sides. 

The losses against the top 8 sides show us playing a quarter of good footy, which is consistent with how we started the year. It was all very much, well the Dees are so good they only need to play 1 quarter. Sure, until you play the good teams who are willing to play 4 quarters.

Complacency, ego and a loss of focus are on show. May's incident is an off field example. 

We built lazy habits earlier this year, and now it's coming back to bite us. 

Line in the sand this Friday, and we can do what we said we would do.

None of this 2/4, 3/4 wins and we'll be right.

Our best is unmatchable.

But we must work for it!

W W W W

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,820]

Pressure - 18th in league. Last year 3rd.

Weideman worst in league for forward line pressure

BBB second worst for forward line pressure

Fritsch 9th worst for forward line pressure.

There's a stack of other issues but what hope do we have with those stats.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

13 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Pressure - 18th in league. Last year 3rd.

Weideman worst in league for forward line pressure

BBB second worst for forward line pressure

Fritsch 9th worst for forward line pressure.

There's a stack of other issues but what hope do we have with those stats.

Fritsch, Brown and Weideman are obviously poor pressure players and need to contribute on the scoreboard to be accretive. Gawn is also a pressure valve when he is at full forward. I don't think they aren't fully trying. (Although Brown could give a bit more effort at times.) They are just not very capable to chase and tackle because they are slow and lack agility.

But I wonder if our forward pressure and pressure overall is also due to our efficiency inside forward 50 (which is good at converting entries into shots at goal) and the way we defend when they have control by foot (i.e. we fold back).

We do have the lowest total points against in the competition which is what counts and second highest percentage. If we put more emphasis on forward pressure it might result in turnovers and scoring goals, but it might actually lead to being opened up on the counter attack.

 

[layzie 33,796]

42 minutes ago, loges said:

Why , does it matter ?

Opinions ranging from credible sources to backyard blow-hards matter somewhat. For instance I'm not listening to an ex player on a pod who maybe watches Melb play 3 or 4 times a season compared to someone paid to watch every week.

But rpfc said he works for The Age so that answers my question. 

[whatwhat say what 22,750]

5 hours ago, rufus said:

He's right. And at our current level of competitiveness we're not winning any finals. We are back to the old Melbourne of picking and choosing when to go hard. Our 'changed' culture is still a mile away from proud clubs like Collingwood.

I don't care what anyone says, if Ugle Hagan is kicking 5 goals on you, that is your evidence that we are not hard enough physically. 

[IRW 1,387]

6 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

A coupla of points...

The melbourne of old was rubbish

Ugle Hagan was in the right spots - Bevo outcoached Goodwin

Unfortunately Bevo, Clarko, Horse,Scott and McCrae all have been able to outcoach Goody at various times.

Game day isn't his strength and he's not particularly articulate either

[rufus 1,162]

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

Am talking on field rather than off field. Can almost never remember a Collingwood game where I've walked away and thought, gee they just didn't look like they had a fair dinkum crack today.

To be fair we are better than we used to be in terms of competing harder for longer, but it still doesn't feel like it's the default expectation of a player wearing an MFC jumper. The Freo game was about as egregious an example of losing a game 100% due to lacking the intensity of your oppo that you'll see. Collingwood game similar. 18th rank for pressure, coming off a flag built on applying pressure, is appalling. 

[IRW 1,387]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

It’s a big if.

It’s said that we started our turnaround at a meeting pre season 2021 when everyone bought in to team first.

Time for that meeting again.

You do understand that calling a meeting " like last year" is not likely to work.

Hopefully the coach has another tool in his kit bag and the team is baseline happy as well