In theory we could still finish on top more likely 4th and that's a tad optimistic on current form. 

We have pretended they have been loading for the last 8 games( I mean seriously?),  took a  while to get going early because they started late (Premiers after all) and recently lost to Geelong because we tricked them into showing everything and we showed nothing ( it keeps gets better and better).

My theory is that injuries have been an  important problem and lack of professionalism  crucial.

What to do? 

I reckon they are good enough..look at the stats over the season and the challenge is really in the hands in the coaches...Goodwin especially.

Plan B ?????( at long last)????perhaps restructure game day plans that no one will see coming according to the opposition.

It won't  be Petty up forward; in case you haven't noticed he's patching up a backline that needs help and doing it admirably..why would you move him ?

Stop wasting Kossie "defending " kick ins..he's not an AAA+ battery robot ffs.

Suggest a move that includes May kicking in occasionally to the right hand side..NO ONE will see that coming@

If someone is sore..give him a rest NOW.

Try one  , just one, left field promotion from the " twos".

Read the riot act.....then get Choco to do one one commentary where there are pieces to pick up.

You guys are obviously experts (especially Bluey) let's hear some common sense and no mention of Weideman 

Edited July 12, 20222 yr by IRW

Ah yes, completely change everything weeks out from finals, have a game plan that is a weekly proposition, stop defending kick ins and yell some abuse at them... All when we're 2nd on the ladder (by percentage).

Seems reasonably well thought out and not an emotional reaction at all.

 

I will leave you two to it…

Brayshaw into the guts is the SPARK we need. It'll massively boost the output of Salem & Bowza too.

Unfortunately Simple Simon is not capable of such shrewd tactics...and I say it with a heavy heart

15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Ah yes, completely change everything weeks out from finals, have a game plan that is a weekly proposition, stop defending kick ins and yell some abuse at them... All when we're 2nd on the ladder (by percentage).

Seems reasonably well thought out and not an emotional reaction at all.

 

Clearly I suggested tweaking  , not completely changing  according to opposition weaknesses.

And moving Kossi to the contested kick in is hardly surrendering the kick in 

Can you read? 

Do you think Kossi is causing pressure at the kick ins?

You must be in the 10 week loading mob.

Geez try something intelligent for a change..I asked for alternatives because you guys are so smart...and misquoting is all you've got!.

 

17 minutes ago, adonski said:

Brayshaw into the guts is the SPARK we need. It'll massively boost the output of Salem & Bowza too.

Unfortunately Simple Simon is not capable of such shrewd tactics...and I say it with a heavy heart..Rivers back in?

That's a backline for the ages or was last year.

Rivers,Lever,Salem..its time to back them in imo

20 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I will leave you two to it…

Goody and Choco  or Bluey and Lord Nev? 

( smile)

 

34 minutes ago, IRW said:

In theory we could still finish on top more likely 4th and that's a tad optimistic on current form. 

We have pretended they have been loading for the last 8 games( I mean seriously?),  took a  while to get going early because they started late (Premiers after all) and recently lost to Geelong because we tricked them into showing everything and we showed nothing ( it keeps gets better and better).

My theory is that injuries have been an  important problem and lack of professionalism  crucial.

What to do? 

I reckon they are good enough..look at the stats over the season and the challenge is really in the hands in the coaches...Goodwin especially.

Plan B ?????( at long last)????perhaps restructure game day plans that no one will see coming according to the opposition.

It won't  be Petty up forward; in case you haven't noticed he's patching up a backline that needs help and doing it admirably..why would you move him ?

Stop wasting Kossie "defending " kick ins..he's not an AAA+ battery robot ffs.

Suggest a move that includes May kicking in occasionally to the right hand side..NO ONE will see that coming@

If someone is sore..give him a rest NOW.

Try one  , just one, left field promotion from the " twos".

Read the riot act.....then get Choco to do one one commentary where there are pieces to pick up.

You guys are obviously experts (especially Bluey) let's hear some common sense and no mention of Weideman 

[censored] it IRW, I like your hustle..!

Just on kozzie I'd like to see him spend more doing at centre bounces. I reckon it adds a whole new dynamic to our midfield rotation. 

And just on rewarding players in the twos, I also dont mind the idea. Some fresh faces can sometimes give the team some energy and life just like Bowey did last year. Could it be Laurie? Chandler? JVR? Time to start actually rewarding form and not rolling in the same names that we have this year.

22 minutes ago, IRW said:

Clearly I suggested tweaking  , not completely changing  according to opposition weaknesses.

And moving Kossi to the contested kick in is hardly surrendering the kick in 

Can you read? 

Do you think Kossi is causing pressure at the kick ins?

You must be in the 10 week loading mob.

Geez try something intelligent for a change..I asked for alternatives because you guys are so smart...and misquoting is all you've got!.

 

Wine, beers, both or other? 

25 minutes ago, IRW said:

Do you think Kossi is causing pressure at the kick ins?

If we go back to the GF he was in the first Q backed off in the 2nd and then it was game over in the 3rd.

So, yes...when he's getting up on the kicker he's a really important part of the puzzle and puts on a lot of pressure.

...he hasn't been hitting up on the kicker as hard lately but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing that role.

It's just another area we are not on song with at the moment. When it works it works...

We are in the second best position we've been in my lifetime at this stage of the year. I'm genuinely excited about the next 2-3 months.

22 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

We are in the second best position we've been in my lifetime at this stage of the year. I'm genuinely excited about the next 2-3 months.

I wish l was, the way our forward line is struggling & Clarrys injury l think we’re really going to struggle

42 minutes ago, IRW said:

Clearly I suggested tweaking  , not completely changing  according to opposition weaknesses.

And moving Kossi to the contested kick in is hardly surrendering the kick in 

Can you read? 

Do you think Kossi is causing pressure at the kick ins?

You must be in the 10 week loading mob.

Geez try something intelligent for a change..I asked for alternatives because you guys are so smart...and misquoting is all you've got!.

 

Wouldn't waste my breath mate - there are so many on here who know what they see but are in denial, clinging to last year's dip and just assuming history will repeat itself

Beggars belief how any honest, reality-entrenched supporter could watch us over the last 6 weeks and think we'll go anywhere close unless something changes forward of the ball.

In case it isn't clear:

-our 3 starting small forwards are collectively averaging 1.9 goals a game. Spargo has 6 for the year. ANB 4. A commentator in the GC game on the weekend commented that Nick Holman has 'only' 12 goals for the year in a half forward role. That's how low the bar is - and they're 50% away from reaching it.

-Fritsch is consistently taking the best medium/tall defender whilst we insist on dumping it on his head in the pocket. He's done well to kick as many as he has and he's well justified imo in getting selfish when he gets the opportunity, given the scoring woes of his colleagues and his ability to Fluke goals when within range

-Ben Brown is consistently playing against 3 tall defenders and/or a floating ruckman on the wing. He doesn't spend much time near goal which is bizarre given his underrated creative ability and ability to draw a free kick 

-the last two weeks Trac has kicked 20-30% of our score. Resting forward perhaps but we then miss our most game breaking mid. Robbing P to pay P. 

-more generally, harmes and Gawn having productive goalkicking years has spared the forward line's blushes. In my view if we're relying on midfield and ruckman goals in finals we'll be in trouble 

-Tom Mac last year averaged more goal assists than anyone else in the side. Including petracca. People have always slept on Tom's ability to mark on the wing, find a target, or ride a tackle deep 50 to dish off a handball as a big senior body. He also kicked 33 for the season in 2021. We've no one who can replace this output and this is compounding, contributing to and combining with the issues above. 

-think very clearly about the shots at goal we had and conceded In the Freo and Geelong games in particular. We have had an absolute dearth of easy shots within 35m in the middle section of the field. Geelong had by my count >6 on the weekend and we were lucky they missed so many. At the same time, we were only close through trac hitting running goals, brown slotting unlikely goals from the pocket, and a Fritsch shot from 55. The system is not generating the shots we want or restricting it in others.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's pretty inarguable. But many can't bear to admit it so they reach for ridiculous explanations - loading, extenuating circumstances, mirroring last year, faith in the coaches, the fact we won in a canter last year, the general vibe of things, the shape of the ground, the weather, the short break, the fact we're everyone's grand final, 'keeping our powder dry' (takes the cake, my favourite), Lloyd hating Melbourne, the colour of the sky and generally anything that can conceivably have a negative connotation. We can all follow footy in our own way - I choose not to be deluded. 

 

I'm not saying things can't change, but I really don't see where it's going to come from. Debuting JVR/Laurie etc might be nice and I could foresee JVR playing Tom's role as he's all heart, but expecting Tom's level of output from him at the pointy end is a big ask. 

5 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Wouldn't waste my breath mate - there are so many on here who know what they see but are in denial, clinging to last year's dip and just assuming history will repeat itself

Beggars belief how any honest, reality-entrenched supporter could watch us over the last 6 weeks and think we'll go anywhere close unless something changes forward of the ball.

In case it isn't clear:

-our 3 starting small forwards are collectively averaging 1.9 goals a game. Spargo has 6 for the year. ANB 4. A commentator in the GC game on the weekend commented that Nick Holman has 'only' 12 goals for the year in a half forward role. That's how low the bar is - and they're 50% away from reaching it.

-Fritsch is consistently taking the best medium/tall defender whilst we insist on dumping it on his head in the pocket. He's done well to kick as many as he has and he's well justified imo in getting selfish when he gets the opportunity, given the scoring woes of his colleagues and his ability to Fluke goals when within range

-Ben Brown is consistently playing against 3 tall defenders and/or a floating ruckman on the wing. He doesn't spend much time near goal which is bizarre given his underrated creative ability and ability to draw a free kick 

-the last two weeks Trac has kicked 20-30% of our score. Resting forward perhaps but we then miss our most game breaking mid. Robbing P to pay P. 

-more generally, harmes and Gawn having productive goalkicking years has spared the forward line's blushes. In my view if we're relying on midfield and ruckman goals in finals we'll be in trouble 

-Tom Mac last year averaged more goal assists than anyone else in the side. Including petracca. People have always slept on Tom's ability to mark on the wing, find a target, or ride a tackle deep 50 to dish off a handball as a big senior body. He also kicked 33 for the season in 2021. We've no one who can replace this output and this is compounding, contributing to and combining with the issues above. 

-think very clearly about the shots at goal we had and conceded In the Freo and Geelong games in particular. We have had an absolute dearth of easy shots within 35m in the middle section of the field. Geelong had by my count >6 on the weekend and we were lucky they missed so many. At the same time, we were only close through trac hitting running goals, brown slotting unlikely goals from the pocket, and a Fritsch shot from 55. The system is not generating the shots we want or restricting it in others.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's pretty inarguable. But many can't bear to admit it so they reach for ridiculous explanations - loading, extenuating circumstances, mirroring last year, faith in the coaches, the fact we won in a canter last year, the general vibe of things, the shape of the ground, the weather, the short break, the fact we're everyone's grand final, 'keeping our powder dry' (takes the cake, my favourite), Lloyd hating Melbourne, the colour of the sky and generally anything that can conceivably have a negative connotation. We can all follow footy in our own way - I choose not to be deluded. 

 

I'm not saying things can't change, but I really don't see where it's going to come from. Debuting JVR/Laurie etc might be nice and I could foresee JVR playing Tom's role as he's all heart, but expecting Tom's level of output from him at the pointy end is a big ask. 

Reading this post you would assume the team you are discussing is towards the bottom of the table, rather than equal top. 

Being a below average football team for over a decade has clearly resulted in some severe psychological damage for many of our supporters. 

13 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Reading this post you would assume the team you are discussing is towards the bottom of the table, rather than equal top. 

Being a below average football team for over a decade has clearly resulted in some severe psychological damage for many of our supporters. 

And you like so many with blind hope seem unable to separate observations on current form from the team in general.

We have a great team - a premiership winning team, with game breaking stars, good young players, a once rock solid system, and collective mindset and buy-in. I love this team.

But at the moment (and for large parts of the year if we are honest), it's not been functioning as it should.

We managed to stack wins against teams we now know are not challengers.

When we've met those at the top, particularly Freo and Geelong, we've failed pretty emphatically so far. You'll call out a range of excuses no doubt, mostly speculative and unconfirmed ideas such as loading, keeping our cards close to our chest or that we led during the game or were 'within a kick' (if only Pickett kicked the goal you say....what about the 8 gettable' set shots Geelong missed? If behinds are an excuse for us they are then equally a reason for them to claim dominance despite scoreboard)

We're still a good team and as I said, we can figure it out. But this current iteration isn't winning the flag. It's an inescapable conclusion for anyone who even tries to watch objectively and pays opposition teams the respect they deserve. 

2 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

And you like so many with blind hope seem unable to separate observations on current form from the team in general.

We have a great team - a premiership winning team, with game breaking stars, good young players, a once rock solid system, and collective mindset and buy-in. I love this team.

But at the moment (and for large parts of the year if we are honest), it's not been functioning as it should.

We managed to stack wins against teams we now know are not challengers.

When we've met those at the top, particularly Freo and Geelong, we've failed pretty emphatically so far. You'll call out a range of excuses no doubt, mostly speculative and unconfirmed ideas such as loading, keeping our cards close to our chest or that we led during the game or were 'within a kick' (if only Pickett kicked the goal you say....what about the 8 gettable' set shots Geelong missed? If behinds are an excuse for us they are then equally a reason for them to claim dominance despite scoreboard)

We're still a good team and as I said, we can figure it out. But this current iteration isn't winning the flag. It's an inescapable conclusion for anyone who even tries to watch objectively and pays opposition teams the respect they deserve. 

I see the things you and others are seeing and discussing. Poor inside 50 entries, forwards out of form, small brigade struggling to kick goals and get more than 5-10 possessions (Spargo, Kosy, ANB) etc etc.

But I ask myself why are Goody, Yze and co sticking to the plan, and largely backing in the personnel? Is it because, after spending their full week analysing things, and putting plans together they can’t see the “obvious” things that people on Demonland can?  Or is it because they feel like they have a good handle on the reasons why we are playing the way we currently are, and where we will get to? 

Just 2 weeks ago, after the Lions victory, the assessment was we can’t and won’t be beaten by anyone when playing in that manner. Now suddenly the world has come to an end, because apparently you need to be able to beat the cats in Geel to win the flag. The swings are reflective of a severe case of Bipolar. 
 

PS. You forgot to add, carrying 2 ruckman clearly not recovered from injury in the list of excuses above. 

I am really enjoying this year. Great drama and entertainment as we rack up the wins then fall off the pedestal, then steady again.

We haven't hit our straps yet as we struggle with connection, cohesion, ruthlessness, and hunt. Our defensive structures are strong, the mids are nearly the best going around, we can pressure when we want. I can see us getting back to scoring over 100 points and/or piling on heavy scores in a short time.

In the past, we would make bad decisions throughout the game, be fumbley, overuse the ball, miss the simple. Now, being more mature and confident, our failures can be remedied within the game and are less existent.

The opposition have to play hard and bring their best to compete with us. It is no longer us struggling to stay in touch or be competitive, it seems to be we are always within striking range to win it. Again, an enjoyable place to be, given where we have been in the past. Even a loss is a bit, nah and not as it used to be, where the next ones become must wins, just to be in finals.

Good entertainment, hoping we keep growing, learning, and getting stronger. Go Dees.

Love your positivity Big Kev. I was about to self harm reading earlier posts. I feel much better as I turn in. My mind has settled into a peaceful meditative state. Thanks. 

 

We lost our fitness man Burgess who gave us the edge.

Shannon Byrnes and Matt Egan are now at Geelong with our proprietary data

Taylor hasn’t come up with a player this year, not a one.

There may be a plan, or a counter attack, but it’s not obvious to this scribe

 

 

Edited July 12, 20222 yr by bluey
Mind altering

This is almost the zenith of MFCSS.

1 hour ago, bluey said:

 

We lost our fitness man Burgess who gave us the edge.

Shannon Byrnes and Matt Egan are now at Geelong with our proprietary data

Taylor hasn’t come up with a player this year, not a one.

There may be a plan, or a counter attack, but it’s not obvious to this scribe

 

 

Matt Egan.. lol

8 hours ago, fr_ap said:

And you like so many with blind hope seem unable to separate observations on current form from the team in general.

We have a great team - a premiership winning team, with game breaking stars, good young players, a once rock solid system, and collective mindset and buy-in. I love this team.

But at the moment (and for large parts of the year if we are honest), it's not been functioning as it should.

We managed to stack wins against teams we now know are not challengers.

When we've met those at the top, particularly Freo and Geelong, we've failed pretty emphatically so far. You'll call out a range of excuses no doubt, mostly speculative and unconfirmed ideas such as loading, keeping our cards close to our chest or that we led during the game or were 'within a kick' (if only Pickett kicked the goal you say....what about the 8 gettable' set shots Geelong missed? If behinds are an excuse for us they are then equally a reason for them to claim dominance despite scoreboard)

We're still a good team and as I said, we can figure it out. But this current iteration isn't winning the flag. It's an inescapable conclusion for anyone who even tries to watch objectively and pays opposition teams the respect they deserve. 

Maybe but blind hope still trumps MFCSS

I'm not worried.

Max has always said (privately) we'll win two in a row.

It's a long season.

We'll need to win three finals.

We are capable of that.

There's no perfect model.

Every team has issues.

 

11 hours ago, IRW said:

In theory we could still finish on top more likely 4th and that's a tad optimistic on current form. 

We have pretended they have been loading for the last 8 games( I mean seriously?),  took a  while to get going early because they started late (Premiers after all) and recently lost to Geelong because we tricked them into showing everything and we showed nothing ( it keeps gets better and better).

My theory is that injuries have been an  important problem and lack of professionalism  crucial.

What to do? 

I reckon they are good enough..look at the stats over the season and the challenge is really in the hands in the coaches...Goodwin especially.

Plan B ?????( at long last)????perhaps restructure game day plans that no one will see coming according to the opposition.

It won't  be Petty up forward; in case you haven't noticed he's patching up a backline that needs help and doing it admirably..why would you move him ?

Stop wasting Kossie "defending " kick ins..he's not an AAA+ battery robot ffs.

Suggest a move that includes May kicking in occasionally to the right hand side..NO ONE will see that coming@

If someone is sore..give him a rest NOW.

Try one  , just one, left field promotion from the " twos".

Read the riot act.....then get Choco to do one one commentary where there are pieces to pick up.

You guys are obviously experts (especially Bluey) let's hear some common sense and no mention of Weideman 

Never heard so much garbage on here before, fmd.

9 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Wouldn't waste my breath mate - there are so many on here who know what they see but are in denial, clinging to last year's dip and just assuming history will repeat itself

Beggars belief how any honest, reality-entrenched supporter could watch us over the last 6 weeks and think we'll go anywhere close unless something changes forward of the ball.

In case it isn't clear:

-our 3 starting small forwards are collectively averaging 1.9 goals a game. Spargo has 6 for the year. ANB 4. A commentator in the GC game on the weekend commented that Nick Holman has 'only' 12 goals for the year in a half forward role. That's how low the bar is - and they're 50% away from reaching it.

-Fritsch is consistently taking the best medium/tall defender whilst we insist on dumping it on his head in the pocket. He's done well to kick as many as he has and he's well justified imo in getting selfish when he gets the opportunity, given the scoring woes of his colleagues and his ability to Fluke goals when within range

-Ben Brown is consistently playing against 3 tall defenders and/or a floating ruckman on the wing. He doesn't spend much time near goal which is bizarre given his underrated creative ability and ability to draw a free kick 

-the last two weeks Trac has kicked 20-30% of our score. Resting forward perhaps but we then miss our most game breaking mid. Robbing P to pay P. 

-more generally, harmes and Gawn having productive goalkicking years has spared the forward line's blushes. In my view if we're relying on midfield and ruckman goals in finals we'll be in trouble 

-Tom Mac last year averaged more goal assists than anyone else in the side. Including petracca. People have always slept on Tom's ability to mark on the wing, find a target, or ride a tackle deep 50 to dish off a handball as a big senior body. He also kicked 33 for the season in 2021. We've no one who can replace this output and this is compounding, contributing to and combining with the issues above. 

-think very clearly about the shots at goal we had and conceded In the Freo and Geelong games in particular. We have had an absolute dearth of easy shots within 35m in the middle section of the field. Geelong had by my count >6 on the weekend and we were lucky they missed so many. At the same time, we were only close through trac hitting running goals, brown slotting unlikely goals from the pocket, and a Fritsch shot from 55. The system is not generating the shots we want or restricting it in others.

If we're honest with ourselves, it's pretty inarguable. But many can't bear to admit it so they reach for ridiculous explanations - loading, extenuating circumstances, mirroring last year, faith in the coaches, the fact we won in a canter last year, the general vibe of things, the shape of the ground, the weather, the short break, the fact we're everyone's grand final, 'keeping our powder dry' (takes the cake, my favourite), Lloyd hating Melbourne, the colour of the sky and generally anything that can conceivably have a negative connotation. We can all follow footy in our own way - I choose not to be deluded. 

 

I'm not saying things can't change, but I really don't see where it's going to come from. Debuting JVR/Laurie etc might be nice and I could foresee JVR playing Tom's role as he's all heart, but expecting Tom's level of output from him at the pointy end is a big ask. 

Panic stations for you, it is poster's like you who would gladly see the club derail the work it has done over the last 6 years.

 

2 hours ago, bluey said:

 

We lost our fitness man Burgess who gave us the edge.

Shannon Byrnes and Matt Egan are now at Geelong with our proprietary data

Taylor hasn’t come up with a player this year, not a one.

There may be a plan, or a counter attack, but it’s not obvious to this scribe

 

 

I can see your tears from here.

Note to future self.  Avoid threads with subjects in all caps. They are full of nonsense.