It's gonna be awesome. Two AA ruckmen with the best midfield plus a rejigged forward line and maybe some half good coaching. We'll be unstoppable. 

 

50 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The move smacks of desperation frankly. I suppose they thought at end of 2021 season Jackson would cover the Gawn issues with a break glass type ruck at Casey (Majak etc).

Jackson clearly leaving from mid season spooked them.

The gameplan is slow and cumbersome to say the least.

Amazing what six months can do to one's MFCSS but the 2021 finals series being an aberration is becoming startlingly clear

I read someone here saying that the irony for us is that Geelong have become Melbourne (2021) and we have become Geelong (2021)

Geelong 2021 was boring, stale, predictable and safe. So they recruited well, changed their game plan, became more bold and daring and voila Premiership favourites.

Its exactly what we need to do and Grundy doesn't add to that at all. 

6 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I read someone here saying that the irony for us is that Geelong have become Melbourne (2021) and we have become Geelong (2021)

Except the average age of our players isn’t 87 years old. Plenty of time left in our window. 

10 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I read someone here saying that the irony for us is that Geelong have become Melbourne (2021) and we have become Geelong (2021)

Geelong 2021 was boring, stale, predictable and safe. So they recruited well, changed their game plan, became more bold and daring and voila Premiership favourites.

Its exactly what we need to do and Grundy doesn't add to that at all. 

That was me

Also mentioned that Sydney,like Geelong have gone from defensive and control football to faster ball movement like us and we have become more like them.

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The move smacks of desperation frankly. I suppose they thought at end of 2021 season Jackson would cover the Gawn issues with a break glass type ruck at Casey (Majak etc).

Jackson clearly leaving from mid season spooked them.

The gameplan is slow and cumbersome to say the least.

Amazing what six months can do to one's MFCSS but the 2021 finals series being an aberration is becoming startlingly clear

Well let's analyse that.

We had 12 players playing injured in the finals.

Our Captain was nearly crippled with groin, back and knee issues and probably shouldn't have played.

We had both opponents under control in the first half.

Our kicking for goal was as bad as it could be, missing some absolute sitters, while our opponents kicked goals out of their behinds, yet if we had kicked straight in only one of the games, we would have played in a PF.

We gave away about 6-7 undisciplined 50 metre penalties, that cost us goals and probably were unlucky with frees both for and against, that cost goals.

We clearly couldn't run out either game and with half the side playing injured that is not a shock. No surprise that both clubs today have just about their best side playing.

We lost the games by 22 points to a GF team and 13 points to the Lions, both teams posting about their highest pressure for a half in their history.

While I am not a great fan of our game plan, we are clearly not far off the best and with last year's injury run, or even a better run than we had late in this season, we would probably be playing for back to back today.

IMO we are a very good team, that needs a good run with injury, like every other team and maybe with a couple of new players in and a bit of tinkering with the game plan and we are back. 

 

Edited September 24, 20222 yr by Redleg

34 minutes ago, mo64 said:

People saying we should pay based on the nett result are kidding themselves. I'm not in the Dodoro camp of getting every possible steak knife, but we are doing the Pies a favour, and that's how the trade should be negotiated.

Why should we be giving another flag contender a leg up? They've beaten us the past 3 times.

What is wrong with doing the Pies a favour? All clubs do favours. Freo did us a favour in picking up Hogan. They knew we wanted him out the door but gave us P6 and P23 in which we bought May and Tom Sparrow. The nett result is the most important. We have been brilliant in the past 5 years in identifying our needs and going out and getting players to fill those needs. What we pay in any individual deal becomes inconsequential when you look at the overall outcome. 

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Well let's analyse that.

We had 12 players playing injured in the finals.

Our Captain was nearly crippled with groin, back and knee issues and probably shouldn't have played.

We had both opponents under control in the first half.

Our kicking for goal was as bad as it could be, missing some absolute sitters, while our opponents kicked goals out of their behinds, yet if we had kicked straight in only one of the games, we would have played in a PF.

We gave away about 6-7 undisciplined 50 metre penalties, that cost us goals and probably were unlucky with frees both for and against, that cost goals.

We clearly couldn't run out either game and with half the side playing injured that is not a shock. No surprise that both clubs today have just about their best side playing.

We lost the games by 22 points to a GF team and 13 points to the Lions, both teams posting about their highest pressure for a half in their history.

While I am not a great fan of our game plan, we are clearly not far off the best and with last year's injury run, or even a better run than we had late in this season, we would probably be playing for back to back today.

IMO we are a very good team, that needs a good run with injury, like every other team and maybe with a couple of new players in and a bit of tinkering with the game plan and we are back. 

 

At last, a common sense post on our season, good one.

29 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Well let's analyse that.

We had 12 players playing injured in the finals.

Our Captain was nearly crippled with groin, back and knee issues and probably shouldn't have played.

We had both opponents under control in the first half.

Our kicking for goal was as bad as it could be, missing some absolute sitters, while our opponents kicked goals out of their behinds, yet if we had kicked straight in only one of the games, we would have played in a PF.

We gave away about 6-7 undisciplined 50 metre penalties, that cost us goals and probably were unlucky with frees both for and against, that cost goals.

We clearly couldn't run out either game and with half the side playing injured that is not a shock. No surprise that both clubs today have just about their best side playing.

We lost the games by 22 points to a GF team and 13 points to the Lions, both teams posting about their highest pressure for a half in their history.

While I am not a great fan of our game plan, we are clearly not far off the best and with last year's injury run, or even a better run than we had late in this season, we would probably be playing for back to back today.

IMO we are a very good team, that needs a good run with injury, like every other team and maybe with a couple of new players in and a bit of tinkering with the game plan and we are back. 

 

Well.. when you put it that way.. 

25 minutes ago, djr said:

What is wrong with doing the Pies a favour? All clubs do favours. Freo did us a favour in picking up Hogan. They knew we wanted him out the door but gave us P6 and P23 in which we bought May and Tom Sparrow. The nett result is the most important. We have been brilliant in the past 5 years in identifying our needs and going out and getting players to fill those needs. What we pay in any individual deal becomes inconsequential when you look at the overall outcome. 

I'm not sure I agree with either point of view.

Freo wanted Hogan, that's why they paid up for him.

We want Grundy, so we'll pay up for him - his contract is irrelevant.

We don't look to do other clubs favours. We look for win-win deals. There's a big difference there.

18 minutes ago, A F said:

I'm not sure I agree with either point of view.

Freo wanted Hogan, that's why they paid up for him.

We want Grundy, so we'll pay up for him - his contract is irrelevant.

We don't look to do other clubs favours. We look for win-win deals. There's a big difference there.

I agree. I was just reusing Mo’s use of the word “favours”

51 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We had 12 players playing injured in the finals

Collingwood three straight losses

Did we have 12 players injured each time?

Brisbane play a slow high forward game so they are not a real test

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Well let's analyse that.

We had 12 players playing injured in the finals.

Our Captain was nearly crippled with groin, back and knee issues and probably shouldn't have played.

We had both opponents under control in the first half.

Our kicking for goal was as bad as it could be, missing some absolute sitters, while our opponents kicked goals out of their behinds, yet if we had kicked straight in only one of the games, we would have played in a PF.

We gave away about 6-7 undisciplined 50 metre penalties, that cost us goals and probably were unlucky with frees both for and against, that cost goals.

We clearly couldn't run out either game and with half the side playing injured that is not a shock. No surprise that both clubs today have just about their best side playing.

We lost the games by 22 points to a GF team and 13 points to the Lions, both teams posting about their highest pressure for a half in their history.

While I am not a great fan of our game plan, we are clearly not far off the best and with last year's injury run, or even a better run than we had late in this season, we would probably be playing for back to back today.

IMO we are a very good team, that needs a good run with injury, like every other team and maybe with a couple of new players in and a bit of tinkering with the game plan and we are back. 

 

I'm wondering about this part. Didn't seem like we had 12 injured players Rd 23 against the Bears and then they had a week off

1 hour ago, Mincho Mania said:

I'm wondering about this part. Didn't seem like we had 12 injured players Rd 23 against the Bears and then they had a week off

Maybe 12 players not 100% or with niggles, but I doubt we’d have had 12 injured players take the field

does Grundy help us beat the Cats !! If yes, then go for it. 
 

from the GF, I think you need a potent forward line and quick direct ball movement.  Cats playing 2021 Dees type pressure and zone. 

21 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

does Grundy help us beat the Cats !! If yes, then go for it. 
 

from the GF, I think you need a potent forward line and quick direct ball movement.  Cats playing 2021 Dees type pressure and zone. 

This is the part that makes some posts on Demonland as of late laughable.

The idea that our game plan no longer works is absolute nonsense.

We need to return to the half forward pressure and post clearance pressure we delivered in 2021, and it strangles teams. If you have 2 of the best midfielders in the competition and two elite ruckman, you become almost unbeatable if you bring the above pressure.

Geelong's half forward pressure brought their interceptors into play all day. Just like us all 2021.

And make no mistake, we have a far superior midfield to Geelong. So with a few tweaks, we're up to our eyeballs in it in 2023.

Edited September 24, 20222 yr by A F

Sorry @A F, but our small forwards proved for the majority of the year (especially in the 2nd half), that they cannot be trusted to bring the heat required.

Our forward pressure was woeful this year, so too was the midfield’s. Our back line did well to hold up for as long as it did.

It ain’t going to be as easier a fix as you suggest. Goody also needs to stop playing favourites and give chances to those who earn them

Edited September 24, 20222 yr by Demon Disciple

10 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Sorry @A F, but our small forwards proved for the majority of the year (especially in the 2nd half), that they cannot be trusted to bring the heat required.

Our forward pressure was woeful this year, so too was the midfield’s. Our back line did well to hold up for as long as it did.

It ain’t going to be as easier a fix as you suggest. Goody also needs to stop playing favourites and give chances to those who earn them

We did it literally a year ago. Why not next year?

I didn't say it would be easy, I said if we fix some simple things we'll be up for it big time.

I'd love to have a draw like Geelong's 2022. What a dream draw for a 2021 preliminary finalist.

24 minutes ago, A F said:

This is the part that makes some posts on Demonland as of late laughable.

The idea that our game plan no longer works is absolute nonsense.

We need to return to the half forward pressure and post clearance pressure we delivered in 2021, and it strangles teams. If you have 2 of the best midfielders in the competition and two elite ruckman, you become almost unbeatable if you bring the above pressure.

Geelong's half forward pressure brought their interceptors into play all day. Just like us all 2021.

And make no mistake, we have a far superior midfield to Geelong. So with a few tweaks, we're up to our eyeballs in it in 2023.

Agreed. That was my point. Our game style of pressure and contested footy still works. It’s the execution with the footy and sharpness of transition that counts as well and cats showed that.  

2 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd love to have a draw like Geelong's 2022. What a dream draw for a 2021 preliminary finalist

Stuffed if I know how that happened.

7 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agreed. That was my point. Our game style of pressure and contested footy still works. It’s the execution with the footy and sharpness of transition that counts as well and cats showed that.  

Yes, I know.

4 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Stuffed if I know how that happened.

And their former captain sounds like he might get Gil's role too, so I doubt much will change. It'd be nice having a Melbourne person batting inside HQ.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

Yes, I know.

And their former captain sounds like he might get Gil's role too, so I doubt much will change. It'd be nice having a Melbourne person batting inside HQ.

Maybe someone from Geelong has worn out knees now

22 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd love to have a draw like Geelong's 2022. What a dream draw for a 2021 preliminary finalist.

Its not a draw, it's a FIXture. It also gave them the ability to manage players later in the season. What a coincidence.

3 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Sorry @A F, but our small forwards proved for the majority of the year (especially in the 2nd half), that they cannot be trusted to bring the heat required.

Our forward pressure was woeful this year, so too was the midfield’s. Our back line did well to hold up for as long as it did.

It ain’t going to be as easier a fix as you suggest. Goody also needs to stop playing favourites and give chances to those who earn them

Imagine the difference of having Stengle and Close this year instead of ANB and Spargo.
 

 

On 9/19/2022 at 11:44 PM, Older demon said:

Max is in my opinion the best ruckman in the league, however this season we persisted in him sharing the duties with Jackson. It was a great succession plan which has been nipped in the bud. When Jacko went into the ruck we always fell away a bit and we all questioned why start the game with Jackson in the centre. Jacko is a 20 y.o and his best is great but often he just disappears. He would have been offered $700 K if he stayed with us. What do we lose with Grundy? He is a better ruck, good below his knees and couldn't be worse than Jackson up forward. Jackson will not peak for a few more years where Grundy is established and if we get 3 good years out of him we are in front

Maybe Max cannot ruck the whole game as he has in the past. We don't know the ins and outs at the club and have to have faith in the match committee.

Solid summary. Grundy should take the bulk of the tap outs and Max play FF. He just needs to work on his goal kicking - he is one of the comps better contested marks inside 50 , which is what our game plan demands. 
 

With a solid pre season in the F50, they should work on their leading patterns so that BBB, and Max lead to different parts of the forward line. 

11 minutes ago, Abyssal said:

Imagine the difference of having Stengle and Close this year instead of ANB and Spargo.
 

 

That’s not going to be much. 

Our stars were banged up and we limped to the finish. Swap those players and it doesn’t change the result.