On 13/08/2023 at 03:04, M_9 said:

Currently watching Casey. Nearly half time. Have yet to see either Schache or TMac touch the ball.

Trade Grundy by all means but pray Max doesn’t get injured. There is no back up.

Verrell isn’t terrible in the ruck for a kid who missed half a season. 
Grundy is a perfect Gawn backup, but at $800k a season he can’t just be a backup for injury. And he doesn’t want to be either, which is fair enough. 

I'm watching Will Varrell today and previous games and I have absolutely no doubt he'll play senior footy next year.

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm watching Will Varrell today and previous games and I have absolutely no doubt he'll play senior footy next year.

I haven’t seen that.

Agree with a couple of others - Verrell and Adams both look to have the goods. 
We’ve seen others (Dunstan, Schache) at AFL level and they haven’t delivered.

After seeing Grundy last night I’m happy to see him traded. But it’s a risk. Just saying.

  On 12/08/2023 at 01:48, Diamond_Jim said:

Unlikely though it seems I think TMac's performance in the VFL tomorrow will strongly influence Grundy's future for this season at least

TMc playing like Harvey Norman - No Interest.

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:04, M_9 said:

Currently watching Casey. Nearly half time. Have yet to see either Schache or TMac touch the ball.

Trade Grundy by all means but pray Max doesn’t get injured. There is no back up.

Very hard to judge any forward's game if the ball's spending a large % of the time in the oppo's forward half Ollie.

Only the last 10 minutes of the 2nd quarter did we see it going our way for a chunk.

  On 12/08/2023 at 21:38, Clint Bizkit said:

Interesting exercise, which player are you taking - left or right?

Left is Jackson’s 2021 season and right is Grundy’s 2023 season so far.

Stats don’t always tell the full story but it’s interesting.

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm watching Will Varrell today and previous games and I have absolutely no doubt he'll play senior footy next year.

Absolutely slaughtered today by Hudson O’Keefe.

  On 13/08/2023 at 04:43, Redleg said:

Absolutely slaughtered today by Hudson O’Keefe.

He's playing in a year where he's had to recover from significant injury and no fitness base.

He's doing just fine.

  On 13/08/2023 at 04:44, dazzledavey36 said:

He's playing in a year where he's had to recover from significant injury and no fitness base.

He's doing just fine.

I am not saying he isn’t, but just commenting on your view that he will definitely play seniors next year.

Today he was slaughtered.

I am sure he will improve, but I have seen nothing yet to suggest he will definitely play seniors next year.

What do you think is the reason for the horrible ball use of both Demon teams this weekend.

  On 13/08/2023 at 05:08, Redleg said:

I am not saying he isn’t, but just commenting on your view that he will definitely play seniors next year.

Today he was slaughtered.

I am sure he will improve, but I have seen nothing yet to suggest he will definitely play seniors next year.

What do you think is the reason for the horrible ball use of both Demon teams this weekend.

People were saying the exact same thing with Judd McVee, me including. 

A full pre season can do wonders for anyone.

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm watching Will Varrell today and previous games and I have absolutely no doubt he'll play senior footy next year.

I know nothing @dazzledavey36 - what position and whom would have to drop out?

  On 13/08/2023 at 06:03, Engorged Onion said:

I know nothing @dazzledavey36 - what position and whom would have to drop out?

Well realistically you're not dropping anyone out while Gawn is rucking. 

But, he's a big solid lad who's got a decent leap on him. He'll benefit having a full pre season under his belt and I wouldn't be surprised if he breaks through for a couple of games next year purely because we'll either give Gawn a chop out of rest him if need.

The fact that he's performed well against some pretty seasoned ruckman in the VFL comp will only hold him good stead going into next year.

He's also got a pretty good mentor..

  On 13/08/2023 at 06:11, dazzledavey36 said:

Well realistically you're not dropping anyone out while Gawn is rucking. 

But, he's a big solid lad who's got a decent leap on him. He'll benefit having a full pre season under his belt and I wouldn't be surprised if he breaks through for a couple of games next year purely because we'll either give Gawn a chop out of rest him if need.

The fact that he's performed well against some pretty seasoned ruckman in the VFL comp will only hold him good stead going into next year.

He's also got a pretty good mentor..

Doesn't do much around the ground at VFL level which is an essential requirement for a ruckman these days.

Hopefully he shows that next year.

That was most likely Grundy's last game for MFC is my guess

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:19, Jaded No More said:

Verrell isn’t terrible in the ruck for a kid who missed half a season. 
Grundy is a perfect Gawn backup, but at $800k a season he can’t just be a backup for injury. And he doesn’t want to be either, which is fair enough. 

I think we should offload him with current while we can. TMAC and BBB to retire. Need to find a backup ruck and an established forward… Silvagni perhaps to fill one spot. 

From the Stats thread:

I expected and think we should have rucked Grundy more and played Max forward more. For Grundy 24% of ruck contests and 29% of CBAs is very low.  He played 60% gametime, if we take the 24% ruck contests to indicate gametime in the ruck that means he played 36% gametime forward (60% of his gametime), but that's even a big underestimation because a lot of those ruck contests would have been when he was forward.  The message from the FD was "we want to play Grundy a bit more forward" but we played him predominantly forward.

Max contested 73% or ruck duels vs Carlton.  Last week vs North he contested 62% with JVR 38%.

It just doesn't make sense to use Grundy so little in the ruck.

Edited August 13, 20231 yr by old55

  On 13/08/2023 at 04:41, Clint Bizkit said:

Left is Jackson’s 2021 season and right is Grundy’s 2023 season so far.

Stats don’t always tell the full story but it’s interesting.

I wonder how many games LJ played as the 2nd tall? I recall it happening pre-Ben Brown, and he did not make any impact at all. So it's no wonder Grundy would be having the same sort of impact, if you ask him to play that role. Comparing 2021, JVR=TMAC, BB=Petty/____, LJ=Grundy, Fritsch=Melk

I think id like us to go with a Fritsch & Melksham as mid-sized talls running around next to JVR, when Fritsch is ready. I know its late in the season to be experimenting but Fritsch comes straight back in anyway.

Edited August 13, 20231 yr by John Demonic

  On 13/08/2023 at 02:48, beelzebub said:

 

E.g.  coming through the guts he hand passes ( hospital varietal)  when he should have eyed up an entry kick into the fifty..noy necessarily at someone but where they could run onto.

Yeah I though at the time it was the wrong decision from what I could see on TV, given it was just 6v6 in the fwd line.

  On 13/08/2023 at 03:17, beelzebub said:

That wont be the best of outcomes should that have transpired.

Disappointed in the Shack..  another of those ..nqr for AFL ...  

He's not the answer  ( i now realise and concede )

Non of the experienced present FIT stock on our list, bar maybe T-Mac IF (and it's a big if) he finds any sort of form in the next few weeks, are "The Answer" Bubs.

Even T-Mac may not be "The Answer" beyond this season if he has further set-backs or can't find his mojo in the off-season.

BB (not you!!) is a looking like a possible no go for 2024 and probably won't see him return.

All are just temporary fill ins at best until we either trade in a genuine experienced (rated) TF or whenever (another IF) Jefferson comes good.

We are very reliant on JVR continuing to improve gradually and come to the fore.  Jefferson to eventually find his feet.  And of course Petty (another if!??) when he fully recovers.  Now 2024.

Will be surprised if Schache makes the cut for 2024.

Seems pretty obvious we will need to trade in a rated KTF for 2024.

  On 13/08/2023 at 04:41, Clint Bizkit said:

Left is Jackson’s 2021 season and right is Grundy’s 2023 season so far.

Stats don’t always tell the full story but it’s interesting.

we should have demanded Lobb as a part of the Jacko trade  no need for Grundy

sen's tom morris also thinks he's going to ask for a trade at the end of the year...

All eyes are on Grundy, who is likely to request a trade if he’s stuck in the VFL at the end of the season.

Whether Melbourne grants this request is another matter. As we speak they are saying no. But clubs do that all the time then relent eventually. Fremantle released a statement squashing Rory Lobb's trade request last year then traded him a week later.

  On 14/08/2023 at 00:01, whatwhat say what said:

sen's tom morris also thinks he's going to ask for a trade at the end of the year...

All eyes are on Grundy, who is likely to request a trade if he’s stuck in the VFL at the end of the season.

Whether Melbourne grants this request is another matter. As we speak they are saying no. But clubs do that all the time then relent eventually. Fremantle released a statement squashing Rory Lobb's trade request last year then traded him a week later.

e didnt go hard enough in my view we were conned by the Ringer

  On 13/08/2023 at 04:44, dazzledavey36 said:

He's playing in a year where he's had to recover from significant injury and no fitness base.

He's doing just fine.

Verrell is clearly lacking the fitness base to play the position he is being asked (and required) to play at Casey.

I've seen enough to think he is a chance to make it as an AFL player. I'm still not sure if it is going to be as a ruck, tall forward or a hybrid along the lines of LJ. Either way he has to work really hard over the summer and get a lot fitter.

He looms as a very critical player for 2024 as we desperately need another tall that can contribute to these areas. I have my doubts on the futures of BB, Tmac, Schache and possibly even Grundy. 

  On 14/08/2023 at 00:24, Kent said:

e didnt go hard enough in my view we were conned by the Ringer

you leave bill simmons outta this!

I seem to be a bit of an outlier from the way most people saw the game... but Grundy turned the game in the 3rd and 4th quarters when he went into the ruck.

• 3rd Quarter clock had 13:15 left, Grundy comes on with scores 6.6. 42 to 4.4.28 Carlton's way.  When Gawn comes back on it 6.6.42 to 6.4.40 Carlton's way.  No more goals in the quarter (we got two more points)
• 4th Quarter, Max is rucking at the start when  we give up 3 quick goals resulting from 2 centre clearances (Oliver wasn't in the centre either) and another starting from a throw in.  Grundy comes on at 9.6.60 to 6.6.42 Carlton's way with 15:42 on the clock.  We kicked two goals in the next 4min period and then Max was back on.  We didn't kick any more goals from then on (though as we all know we had decent opportunities to)

 

Maybe Max had an injury - but the TDK / Pittonet combination seemed to trouble him.  Having Brodie in the side made a big difference.  Brodie didn't do a lot up forward but I'm not sure if Petty (or anyone else) would have made a huge difference - the game style was quite different to other weeks.  I think it's worth persisting with (maybe keep Smith forward).

 

Also think there's plenty of ways they can manage this better - as others have pointed out, when we're kicking in Brodie shouldn't be in the same vicinity as Max (it means he's got to mark against both their men).  Brodie also looks a bit lost when we have to defend and he's in the ruck - it just doesn't feel like they're currently maximising their strengths.  I don't think TMac is the answer - so hopefully they can get this to click the next few weeks.