On 06/10/2022 at 23:42, old55 said:

I don't think those bids really matter though Luci because we're not taking Fletcher or Davey anyway so our pick, player-wise, is effectively the same as traded, the F/Ss just slot in.

Good point!

But really don't like that sort of 'sweetner'.

Edited October 6, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

  On 06/10/2022 at 22:55, Redleg said:

Thanks Ivan, I must say the points system  confuses me. 

It's a construct to serve the purpose of father-son picks, it really shouldn't be used as trade guide, by clubs or pundits, particularly with later picks which have far too high points attached to them.  If clubs had unlimited list spots, a club having picks 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 for example would have a nice bundle of picks to draft a lot of players and hopefully find a few mid-late round gems.  With fixed list sizes, there just even list room for clubs to be able to use the picks.  This is why pick 53 is essentially valueless, because if there is only 60 players or so drafted, a free list spot at worst gives you pick 61.  And this is where the system is farcical because according to the point values, those six picks I mentioned above have the points value greater than that pick 2 in the draft.  There just isn't list spots  and even more crucially any sensible reason to trade picks 38 through to 43 for pick 2.  The reverse suits Brisbane of course and its why the system is ridiculous.  The machinations of the AFL are a disgrace in these areas.

As for our trade, in reality we are probably a few picks light of what we should be getting but of course you need a trade partner that has a use for our picks.

The risk is Port then use our picks and get a better deal.  But for our purposes, if it nets Grundy then it doesn't really matter.

  On 06/10/2022 at 23:38, Lucifers Hero said:

Is this a serious suggestion or media hypothetical?

im just theorising based on Demons11 post.

#13 & #27 for Grundy & #16 would sound reasonable. It will be linked to how much of Grundy's contract we agree to pay, which is the key thing in my mind. And we would be a good chance to get the same player at #16 or #13 anyway. (We are unlikely to get a gun KFP there anyway in this draft.)

We will obviously do the sums and put a value on picks versus cap space.

We might get a future pick back as well.

 

  On 06/10/2022 at 21:58, Redleg said:

If the picks we swapped were worth pick 14, I wonder why we didn’t just give them to Pies to use in other deals.

I think teams are avoiding later picks in this years draft as its been said to be soft outside the top end is my guess ... in a soft year those picks don't actually equal pick 14

  On 06/10/2022 at 23:10, Demons11 said:

I’ve hearing Pies are waiting for pick 13 to come in and are looking for us to give them that and give us 16 back 

Unless this is our idea and we get to keep pick 27 we need to show some backbone here.

Grundy is a second rounder. They asked for a second rounder.

Diluting a premium asset to buy something non premium is terrible business.

We thought we’d be clever in 2020 by moving picks around and getting our man Max Holmes as well as Bowey.

Geelong sniffed it out (in fairness you could smell it wafting from AAMI park to Geelong) and they poached him and left us with the Groundhog. Plus we compounded the mistake by drafting Rosman too. Wasted 2 picks.

  On 07/10/2022 at 01:43, DeeSpencer said:

We thought we’d be clever in 2020 by moving picks around and getting our man Max Holmes as well as Bowey.

There was some media speculation that we were keen on Holmes, however the draft video clearly refers to Bowey and Laurie as the two kids we were after as the best decision makers and kicks in the draft. Bowey and Laurie were mentioned by Taylor and Goodwin just prior to the Geelong trade, approximately 1 minute in the video below.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by Nascent

  On 07/10/2022 at 01:43, DeeSpencer said:

Unless this is our idea and we get to keep pick 27 we need to show some backbone here.

Grundy is a second rounder. They asked for a second rounder.

Diluting a premium asset to buy something non premium is terrible business.

We thought we’d be clever in 2020 by moving picks around and getting our man Max Holmes as well as Bowey.

Geelong sniffed it out (in fairness you could smell it wafting from AAMI park to Geelong) and they poached him and left us with the Groundhog. Plus we compounded the mistake by drafting Rosman too. Wasted 2 picks.

I love how you talk your waffle with such authority, as though you are talking actual facts. Do you work in finance or realestate?

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by Roost it far

  On 07/10/2022 at 01:54, Nascent said:

There was some media speculation that we were keen on Holmes, however the draft video clearly refers to Bowie and Laurie as the two kids we were after as the best decision makers and kicks in the draft. Bowey and Laurie were mentioned by Taylor and Goodwin just prior to the Geelong trade, approximately 1 minute in the video below.

 

 

 

Watch Jason Taylor’s face when he says Holmes and tell me he’s not flat as a tack. By the time they were talking up our jockeys they easily could’ve been resigned to losing Holmes at pick 20, just been unsure of who was taking him. 

Anyway, some will agree with me, some won’t. But I also see Ollie Henry and Finn Macrae sitting right above our pick and they’d both be handy additions (even if Henry was leaving now). Laurie ain’t helping at all. 

  On 07/10/2022 at 01:54, Nascent said:

There was some media speculation that we were keen on Holmes, however the draft video clearly refers to Bowey and Laurie as the two kids we were after as the best decision makers and kicks in the draft. Bowey and Laurie were mentioned by Taylor and Goodwin just prior to the Geelong trade, approximately 1 minute in the video below.

 

 

 

I think we already knew that Geelong and Richmond had swapped picks for Geelong to get one spot ahead of us.

It would have been pre-planned by them and we either knew before we went into draft night or were alerted to it in the minutes before the pick swap happened.  Then it was the next best two:  Bowey and Laurie.

Speaking of Laurie, is he playing AFL this year?

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:07, DeeSpencer said:

Watch Jason Taylor’s face when he says Holmes and tell me he’s not flat as a tack. By the time they were talking up our jockeys they easily could’ve been resigned to losing Holmes at pick 20, just been unsure of who was taking him. 

Anyway, some will agree with me, some won’t. But I also see Ollie Henry and Finn Macrae sitting right above our pick and they’d both be handy additions (even if Henry was leaving now). Laurie ain’t helping at all. 

Fascinating behind the scenes conversation.

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:18, Lucifers Hero said:

I think we already knew that Geelong and Richmond had swapped picks for Geelong to get one spot ahead of us.

It would have been pre-planned by them and we either knew before we went into draft night or were alerted to it in the minutes before the pick swap happened.  Then it was the next best two:  Bowey and Laurie.

Did you watch the video? Tim Lamb is literally on the phone asking if Richmond had traded the pick to Carlton while Taylor and Goodwin are affirming our selections of Bowey and Laurie prior to the trade happening with Geelong.

I'm sure we accounted multiple scenarios and pre-draft, but I don't see how anyone can say with any authority that we missed our targets after watching this video. You'd have to be on the recruiting team to say for certain.

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:22, Roost it far said:

Speaking of Laurie, is he playing AFL this year?

I think he will personally.

Needs to go away and get himself super fit though. He looks like he carries a bit extra, so think if he slims down slightly his speed and running will improve.

Herald Sun the other day suggested or indicated a round 1 Collingwood V Melbourne in recognition of this trade.

Would be Collingwood’s home game.

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:59, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Herald Sun the other day suggested or indicated a round 1 Collingwood V Melbourne in recognition of this trade.

Would be Collingwood’s home game.

That is because QB will be our Home game.

  On 07/10/2022 at 03:01, Lucifers Hero said:

That is because QB will be our Home game.

KB not QB

  On 07/10/2022 at 03:05, Mister Ed said:

KB not QB

Has it officially changed?

Pies … pick 27 for Grundy 

Tim Lamb this is no time to cave 

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:59, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Herald Sun the other day suggested or indicated a round 1 Collingwood V Melbourne in recognition of this trade.

Would be Collingwood’s home game.

Nothing like an opening round against the team that seemingly beats us every time

  On 07/10/2022 at 02:22, Roost it far said:

Speaking of Laurie, is he playing AFL this year?

Needs to do preseason with Lance Armstrong, Stephen Dank, Ben Johnson and the Chinese swim team to be any chance 

  On 07/10/2022 at 03:08, spirit of norm smith said:

Pies … pick 27 for Grundy 

Tim Lamb this is no time to cave 

Yup stick to 27,  I wouldn't be surprised if Collingwood have cracked the [censored] because Grundy has said he will take a pay cut!

  On 07/10/2022 at 01:54, Nascent said:

There was some media speculation that we were keen on Holmes, however the draft video clearly refers to Bowey and Laurie as the two kids we were after as the best decision makers and kicks in the draft. Bowey and Laurie were mentioned by Taylor and Goodwin just prior to the Geelong trade, approximately 1 minute in the video below.

 

 

 

But this is propaganda.  It's selectively edited.  Do you think the club would put out a video that shows us not getting who we really wanted? It would be awkward for the recruiters and awkward for the players we ultimately take.

I think the fact that Geelong trade up just before us indicates they thought we or the next club/s were going to select Holmes.

It's still great / interesting content for fans - but just because they say we wanted the two best kicks in the draft, doesn't mean it was our first plan.

I think we know (early days I know) that we would definitely choose Holmes over Laurie right now.  Haven't given up on Laurie but Holmes is a beauty!

  On 05/10/2022 at 21:34, willmoy said:

 

How about the Karate kick be gave Max. Max was looking up at him like why did you do that. Personally I couldn't stop laughing because it was so out of the blue and the poor look on Max's face was priceless. 

  On 07/10/2022 at 03:26, deelusions from afar said:

But this is propaganda.  It's selectively edited. 

Not sure how they've selectively edited two conversations happening at the same time in the one frame.

Do you think the club would put out a video that shows us not getting who we really wanted? It would be awkward for the recruiters and awkward for the players we ultimately take.

Just the previous year we released a video showing our disappointment in missing out on Georgiades and later Devon Robertson before turning our attention to Rivers. 

I think the fact that Geelong trade up just before us indicates they thought we or the next club/s were going to select Holmes.

Perhaps but ultimately guesswork. Cal released a post draft run-down article of varying permutations. He made no definitive link between us selecting Holmes if available but did mention that we were monitoring Angwin closely who went at GWS pick 18. Perhaps he was our real target? 

It's still great / interesting content for fans - but just because they say we wanted the two best kicks in the draft, doesn't mean it was our first plan.

Agreed.

I think we know (early days I know) that we would definitely choose Holmes over Laurie right now.  Haven't given up on Laurie but Holmes is a beauty!

At this stage certainly, but like you I haven't given up on Laurie.