I find it really hard to follow threads after someone suggests [censored] spiders.

Snags my attention.

what!?

I'm bored.

 

Where's The Riddler?

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

We gave 2 and 18 for White and 22.

White had played 32 games to LJ's 50 and with a flag and rising star and far superior stats all around, LJ is a mile ahead of White at this stage. White wasn't even a regular in the Freo side, playing 32 games in 3 years.

We gave them Pick 2 and a 4 pick upgrade, for a far lesser player than LJ , at that stage.

I don't think what happened at the end of 1997 between Melbourne and Fremantle is really relevant anymore. But at least a deal was worked out back then.

Unfortunately, Peter Bell seems to be almost as bad as Adrian Dodoro to deal with when it comes to trading. It's all about screwing over the other AFL clubs in their minds rather than something fair and reasonable.

Nevertheless, I have confidence in Chris Lamb the former police officer.

I am sure he has excellent negotiating skills.

This is probably more the negotiations going on between the Western Bulldogs and the Brisbane Lions over Josh Dunkley at the moment. 🤣😅😆😂😁

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by Supreme_Demon

20 minutes ago, Sigil said:

I'm bored.

 

Where's The Riddler?

30 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I don't think what happened at the end of 1997 between Melbourne and Fremantle is really relevant anymore. But at least a deal was worked out back then.

Unfortunately, Peter Bell seems to be almost as bad as Adrian Dodoro to deal with when it comes to trading. It's all about screwing over the other AFL clubs in their minds rather than something fair and reasonable.

Nevertheless, I have confidence in Chris Lamb the former police officer.

I am sure he has excellent negotiating skills.

This is probably more the negotiations going on between the Western Bulldogs and the Brisbane Lions over Josh Dunkley at the moment. 🤣😅😆😂😁

And this is Tim Lamb  

to Peter Bell

 

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Mackie at Geelong doing a Bell/Dodoro and other clubs are getting p-ssed off.

He is a world class flogg that Mackie, friggen loves himself a bit too much.

7 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

The entire trade set up with the PSD needs to be looked at because it's resulting in clubs not acting in good faith IMO 

It isn't just the PSD the AFL needs to look at.

It seems that 'good faith negotiating' has gone out the window right across the board.  The new mo seems to be:

• entice players to their club,
• make unrealistic offers
• dig heels in
• stalemate

It is not so bad when one or two clubs played that way but now it is nearly every club.  Even the typical 'honest brokers' like Geelong are making ridiculously low offers;  Mackie trying to big note himself in his first year whereas Wells would get deals done. 

Its like clubs have been to Dodoro's school of trading techniques!  

The bizarre thing is that apparntly after the top 5 players in the draft it is pretty even, so what is everyone fighting for, other than ego!

 

As an aside does Ess still exist.  Very quiet on the trading front.  All too  busy with the politics and looking after their own patch I guess!

6 hours ago, Sigil said:

I'm bored.

 

Where's The Riddler?

 @Demonstoneto the rescue with a brainteaser quiz, perhaps?

An interesting view on WCE sliding down the draft from #2.  The Age podcast indicated they see some of the players at the top of the draft as 'flight risks' so will look to local players.

Given recent trends with elite players 'going home' very early in their careers and the drafting club being short changed in most cases, that is smart thinking for the top end of the draft. 

The view of 'backing in your system and development' doesn't seem so compelling these days.

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by Lucifers Hero

15 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

An interesting view on WCE sliding down the draft from #2.  The Age podcast indicated they see the top 5 players as 'flight risks' so will look to local players.

Given recent trends with elite players 'going home' very early in their careers and the drafting club being short changed in most cases, that is smart thinking for the top end of the draft. 

The view of 'backing in your system and development' doesn't seem so compelling these days.

And this is why I honestly thought before trade week started we were a chance of pick 2. The Eagles clearly don’t rate LJ as others do. 

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And this is why I honestly thought before trade week started we were a chance of pick 2. The Eagles clearly don’t rate LJ as others do. 

They still want a high pick.  The mooted deal with Port gives them pick 8 plus a F1 (and probably a player).

So not sure #2 for LJ was ever an option.

7 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I don't think what happened at the end of 1997 between Melbourne and Fremantle is really relevant anymore. But at least a deal was worked out back then.

Unfortunately, Peter Bell seems to be almost as bad as Adrian Dodoro to deal with when it comes to trading. It's all about screwing over the other AFL clubs in their minds rather than something fair and reasonable.

Nevertheless, I have confidence in Chris Lamb the former police officer.

I am sure he has excellent negotiating skills.

This is probably more the negotiations going on between the Western Bulldogs and the Brisbane Lions over Josh Dunkley at the moment. 🤣😅😆😂😁

I love that film.

48 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

An interesting view on WCE sliding down the draft from #2.  The Age podcast indicated they see some of the players at the top of the draft as 'flight risks' so will look to local players.

Given recent trends with elite players 'going home' very early in their careers and the drafting club being short changed in most cases, that is smart thinking for the top end of the draft. 

The view of 'backing in your system and development' doesn't seem so compelling these days.

Just thinking about that, and I realised that we have a poor retention rate of WA players acquired at the top end of the draft. Here's a list off the top of my head of those who ended up back in WA:

Luke Jackson

Jesse Hogan

Cale Morton (bust)

Jeff Farmer (freo traded the rights on him for Phil Gilbert)

Troy Longmuir

Phil Gilbert

Jason Norrish

Darren Kowal

Warren Dean (Pre draft)

I can't actually think of a WA player who started and finished his career at Melbourne. I'm sure there's some.

28 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Just thinking about that, and I realised that we have a poor retention rate of WA players acquired at the top end of the draft. Here's a list off the top of my head of those who ended up back in WA:

Luke Jackson

Jesse Hogan

Cale Morton (bust)

Jeff Farmer (freo traded the rights on him for Phil Gilbert)

Troy Longmuir

Phil Gilbert

Jason Norrish

Darren Kowal

Warren Dean (Pre draft)

I can't actually think of a WA player who started and finished his career at Melbourne. I'm sure there's some.

Jacob Van Rooyen comes to mind

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

And this is why I honestly thought before trade week started we were a chance of pick 2. The Eagles clearly don’t rate LJ as others do. 

Maybe the problem is WC isn’t the only side that don’t rate LJ as high as price we have put on him. 

It isn't just WA players.  Here are a few others in recent times that have gone home within a few years of being drafted.. 

• Tom Boyd:  pick 1
• Josh Schache:  pick 2
• Jesse Hogan: pre draft priority pick
• Luke Jackson:  pick 3
• Adam Cerra:  pick 5
• Jason Horn Francis:  pick 1
• Tanner Bruhn:  pick 12
• Isaac Rankine:  pick 3

I'm sure there are lots of others around the league.

And of course many have stayed the course at an i/state club.  But still a big risk at the pointy end.

So good on WCE.

Geelong are certainly adopting the recruit locals appproach.  Most of their top end recruits in recent years have been 'locals' ie Greater Geelong region.  Nearly half their list will be 'locals'

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by Lucifers Hero

I think if Jackson gets any inkling he's going to WCE, he'll just nominate Freo and we'll be back to square one.

20 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I think if Jackson gets any inkling he's going to WCE, he'll just nominate Freo and we'll be back to square one.

Yeah I've got this feeling a Freo nomination isn't far off. 

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Just thinking about that, and I realised that we have a poor retention rate of WA players acquired at the top end of the draft. Here's a list off the top of my head of those who ended up back in WA:

Luke Jackson

Jesse Hogan

Cale Morton (bust)

Jeff Farmer (freo traded the rights on him for Phil Gilbert)

Troy Longmuir

Phil Gilbert

Jason Norrish

Darren Kowal

Warren Dean (Pre draft)

I can't actually think of a WA player who started and finished his career at Melbourne. I'm sure there's some.

But of that list, only LJ and Farmer left when we wanted them to stay. 

42 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Maybe the problem is WC isn’t the only side that don’t rate LJ as high as price we have put on him. 

Or they have been told it’s only Freo.

14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But of that list, only LJ and Farmer left when we wanted them to stay. 

Regardless, it's still not a great return on top end WA draftees.

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Just thinking about that, and I realised that we have a poor retention rate of WA players acquired at the top end of the draft. Here's a list off the top of my head of those who ended up back in WA:

Luke Jackson

Jesse Hogan

Cale Morton (bust)

Jeff Farmer (freo traded the rights on him for Phil Gilbert)

Troy Longmuir

Phil Gilbert

Jason Norrish

Darren Kowal

Warren Dean (Pre draft)

I can't actually think of a WA player who started and finished his career at Melbourne. I'm sure there's some.

Absolutely racking my brain on this. Probably safe to say Woewodin would have 😕

It is somewhat puzzling: we exist in a strange capitalist realism.  The way we are all deciding ‘value’ on individual humans, on potential of new people entering the system and on what we expect them to do based on the value we assign them.

If we won a flag then we got it all exactly right.  A club like Gold Coast would have had  maybe 100,000 more ‘points’ value in just the recent past and the value has transpired into nothing like the true judgement of success. They can’t even make the finals.

What we need to win another flag is different from other teams, so ‘Value’ is completely subjective to the buyer and seller, and not truly ‘fixed’ around a schedule of points.

I dont think LJ makes the dockers that much better - than grundy will make us. If our window is the next 3-5, Grundy might actually be worth MORE to us than LJ.  But we can never know…. But if we suggested taking what we got for LJ and sending it straight to the filth, people would go out of their tiny minds!

So we have a slave market that values people that is completely decoupled from the measure of success, and with enormously subjective valuations. Good work AFL!

The reported trade for Rankine:  Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph revealed the Crows are nearing a trade with the Suns that’ll see Adelaide land Rankine and a late pick in this year’s draft in exchange for Pick 5, a future third rounder and future fourth rounder."

Don't know why Ralph thinks it is a steal for Adelaide.  It suits GCS they want points in 2023 for their Academy player so those F3 and F4 are really valuable to GCS.  Win/Win.

Pick 5 for Rankine? Has only shown glimpses. Overs imo