I don't deny that training loading takes place, but if every club that's contending for finals is doing it, then the results amongst those teams is neutralised. Why will we be the only club that miraculously improves in the last 4 rounds?

Burgo talked about it, so some think that it's the be all and end all to our results. Remember when high altitude training was all the rage after the Pies won a flag. Everyone started doing it.

How can you properly load when so many of your key players have had injuries or Covid during the loading period? Add to that the difficult fixture.

Our form slump is due to a number of things, with injuries and poor form being on top of the list.

4 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

passed when he should have

...and he passed when he shouldn't have.

The point is you don't need to drop a player (as many, including [censored] ex players wanted) to get the result you are looking for.

Luckily our FD are a bit smarter.

 

edit interesting that i.iot is censored...including not so smart ex players wanted...

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by rjay

Unless we plan on winning coming from outside the top 4 (very unlikely), I dare say that our ‘loading’ could very well have cost us a genuine chance of being this years premiers. 
 

Every game we look absolutely spent, perhaps a cause of overtraining. 

36 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Every game we look absolutely spent, perhaps a cause of overtraining. 

At this stage of the season i think it is more likely that the ball movement is a lot faster and we are unable to keep up.

2 hours ago, binman said:

Personally I can't wait until this week's game. 

Me too. Hope to see a nice win against the odds.

It's good being able to measure ourselves against some very good opposition in the run home but I can see us picking up plenty of battle scars along the way - both physical and to a lesser extent mental. Dogs win yesterday was not all that different to our final round win against the cats last year. Lots of sore bodies after that clash.

39 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Me too. Hope to see a nice win against the odds.

It's good being able to measure ourselves against some very good opposition in the run home but I can see us picking up plenty of battle scars along the way - both physical and to a lesser extent mental. Dogs win yesterday was not all that different to our final round win against the cats last year. Lots of sore bodies after that clash.

@DemonWA How does that logic marry up with them beating us second time round last year (corresponding fixture) and then their performance in their GF loss?  Similarly, how does the Dogs winning last night marry up to their scars of the GF and Round 1 loss this year? Or the time we lost, what was it 17 in a row against North... and then won one? 

Performance is about execution of task, time and time again, not about getting caught up in the past or the future. I'd hope they've got psychologists to help re-enforce that.

Very excited about the next month of football and the emotional rollercoaster that it is.

I said at the beginning of the year that I didn't care if we didn't make the GF this year... who am I kidding? I care pretty bloody deeply. 😇

Just on that... I read a quote from the Crystal Palace CE - something akin to

"A football club is typically someones first love, it's before their first boyfriend or girlfriend, therefore it's embedded more deeply in that persons psyche"

No wonder some of these topics are so divisive.

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by Engorged Onion

At the end of the day, it is a theory - a darned good one, and one that most of us hope is true - but that’s all. It’s just an opinion, so easy on those who have formed it: they are not coaching the team nor playing. Let’s just enjoy the next month, stay the course and see what happens!

53 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Me too. Hope to see a nice win against the odds.

Against what odds?

Both teams are even money.

So the bookies have this as a 50 50 game, despite it being at optus.

I guess they don't read demonland

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by binman

5 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

At the end of the day, it is a theory - a darned good one, and one that most of us hope is true - but that’s all. It’s just an opinion, so easy on those who have formed it: they are not coaching the team nor playing. Let’s just enjoy the next month, stay the course and see what happens!

Exactly. Just because some of us have this theory doesn’t mean the players will somehow get complacent or something. 

Edited July 24, 20222 yr by Vipercrunch

40 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

@DemonWA How does that logic marry up with them beating us second time round last year (corresponding fixture) and then their performance in their GF loss?  Similarly, how does the Dogs winning last night marry up to their scars of the GF and Round 1 loss this year? Or the time we lost, what was it 17 in a row against North... and then won one? 

.

No logic here. Just observation. You can see the spirit that a close come from behind victory helps to foster within a group. That was my point. 

14 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Exactly. Just because some of us have this theory doesn’t mean the players will somehow get complacent or something. 

It's not a [censored] theory. Just like Evolution is no longer a "Theory of Evolution".

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

I don't deny that training loading takes place, but if every club that's contending for finals is doing it, then the results amongst those teams is neutralised. Why will we be the only club that miraculously improves in the last 4 rounds?

Burgo talked about it, so some think that it's the be all and end all to our results. Remember when high altitude training was all the rage after the Pies won a flag. Everyone started doing it.

How can you properly load when so many of your key players have had injuries or Covid during the loading period? Add to that the difficult fixture.

Our form slump is due to a number of things, with injuries and poor form being on top of the list.

No, everyone is loading differently because no one else was 10 zip. The fixture also plays a part in terms of balancing those loads. We have by far the hardest draw, and rightly so, we were premiers, but that likely plays into what we can and can't do. 

1 hour ago, binman said:

Against what odds?

Both teams are even money.

So the bookies have this as a 50 50 game, despite it being at optus.

I guess they don't read demonland

Looks at the form lines and the home ground advantage. I'd be surprised if the odds have us as evens at bounce down

You could cut the conjecture with a Rex Hunt fish cleaning knife right now.

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

@DemonWA How does that logic marry up with them beating us second time round last year (corresponding fixture) and then their performance in their GF loss?  Similarly, how does the Dogs winning last night marry up to their scars of the GF and Round 1 loss this year? Or the time we lost, what was it 17 in a row against North... and then won one? 

Performance is about execution of task, time and time again, not about getting caught up in the past or the future. I'd hope they've got psychologists to help re-enforce that.

Very excited about the next month of football and the emotional rollercoaster that it is.

I said at the beginning of the year that I didn't care if we didn't make the GF this year... who am I kidding? I care pretty bloody deeply. 😇

Just on that... I read a quote from the Crystal Palace CE - something akin to

"A football club is typically someones first love, it's before their first boyfriend or girlfriend, therefore it's embedded more deeply in that persons psyche"

No wonder some of these topics are so divisive.

Just read this out to the wifey who is a soon to be clinical psychologist and she said that makes so much sense haha. Neither of us had ever thought about it this way. It's a great frame mate.

I would simply unload 

8 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

I was being highly facetious.

The potting from me is at those who convince themselves loading is a main contributing factor and go on to provide the evidence they believe supports the theory. When really, nobody has a clue. I've never said that those in support of it think it's the only factor in a win or loss.

Nobody has a clue because there are too many factors to take into account from the outside looking in.

Posters have been guessing at which games we might have a dip in vs which ones we might look to have more energy in and from there it becomes confirmation bias for them. But really it could be any number of things. 

Example, a player has a shocking couple of nights sleep before a game due to a sick child.

 

Here are the facts we know:

This time last year we had a healthier and more settled squad.

This time last year our game was in far better order, especially defensively even though we lost to the dogs at the G.

This time last year we had a far easier run home with less travel and more time to recover between games.

This time last year, teams weren't as prepared coming up against our system vs this year.

 

To me, that's all the evidence required when looking at where we are right now as a side. 

The loading thing is such an overblown nonsense imo. And if it really is so significant come september and what we're seeing now is fatigue which is in part a result of loading, I'd argue that the risk vs reward is simply too great given we're likely to slip out of the top four if we don't improve quickly. Because losses sap energy levels too as well as team morale and momentum. So how the hell do we know what we're looking at? We don't, so look at what we do know, which is the above ^.

I would really love to know from someone in the field, (not athletics because AFL is a contact sport), how much loading you can actually be doing at this time of the year with so much travel and so many short turn arounds. And how much impact it would actually have come september. Surely it can only be minimal gains if any given the taxing nature of every game played. Players pulling up sore constantly and the premium on recovery between games. It just doesn't compute.

 

 

So because you don’t know what you’re talking about then no one knows what they are talking about? Some people have deep knowledge of football and of sports science. They probably know a lot more than you and me. Seems strange to assume everyone’s in the same boat as you. Can’t learn much that way. 
 

It is a different year and there are different contributing factors  but do you really not see any parallels form wise? 

4 hours ago, mo64 said:

I don't deny that training loading takes place, but if every club that's contending for finals is doing it, then the results amongst those teams is neutralised. Why will we be the only club that miraculously improves in the last 4 rounds?

Burgo talked about it, so some think that it's the be all and end all to our results. Remember when high altitude training was all the rage after the Pies won a flag. Everyone started doing it.

How can you properly load when so many of your key players have had injuries or Covid during the loading period? Add to that the difficult fixture.

Our form slump is due to a number of things, with injuries and poor form being on top of the list.

It’s possible we’ve gone harder than everyone else because we had the luxury of being 10-0.

5 minutes ago, von said:

So because you don’t know what you’re talking about then no one knows what they are talking about? Some people have deep knowledge of football and of sports science. They probably know a lot more than you and me. Seems strange to assume everyone’s in the same boat as you. Can’t learn much that way. 
 

It is a different year and there are different contributing factors  but do you really not see any parallels form wise? 

No.

59 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

It's not a [censored] theory. Just like Evolution is no longer a "Theory of Evolution".

But it *is* the theory of evolution. A theory supported by overwhelming evidence. For all intents and purposes a fact, just like our theory of gravity, germ theory of disease, etc.

The loading hypothesis will be exposed to some interesting tests in the coming weeks.

Just now, von said:

It’s possible we’ve gone harder than everyone else because we had the luxury of being 10-0.

Now you are just surmising to justify your argument. Nobody on here has a clue about what sort of loading we've done. The facts are that we've had injuries and inconsistent form from our A graders.

3 minutes ago, mo64 said:

No.

Cool, good chat. I assume you love the astute analysis of David king and the like. Enjoy your surface level, emotional roller coaster support and I’ll talk to you in a month when the season wraps up. 

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Now you are just surmising to justify your argument. Nobody on here has a clue about what sort of loading we've done. The facts are that we've had injuries and inconsistent form from our A graders.

We had inconsistent form from A graders last year too. Why do those who hate loading assume those who are aware of the method think the flag is ours and that’s that. No one has ever said that.

1 hour ago, binman said:

I guess they don't read demonland

We would be $8.00 every week if they did

20 minutes ago, von said:

We had inconsistent form from A graders last year too. Why do those who hate loading assume those who are aware of the method think the flag is ours and that’s that. No one has ever said that.

I've already said that we are probably loading. But it's you that's guessing that we are the only team impacted by it, and are trying to measure it's impact on us. You can't, it's as simple as that. But you can measure the impact of injuries and form.