POSTGAME: Rd 09 vs West Coast

[jumbo returns 6,737]

Next!

[Pates 9,655]

I don’t know what to think when I’m hearing fans of a team that watched us go through seasons of winning 2 games for the entire year complain about a 74 win that was just about stitched up by quarter time. 

Could we have played better? Absolutely. But I actually do buy the theory that our club ethos right now is do what we need but don’t over exert. I laugh about the fact that this time last season there were complaints that we weren’t putting teams to the sword. Now we do but it’s not enough?

Far out we are spoilt right now. We know the level these guys can go to, I trust the coach and the players to bring it when required. 

By the way, TMac getting a little bit better touch is only a good thing. I actually like the fact our forward line gets a spread of goal kickers rather than one guy getting bags of 5-7 and the others bobbing up for one or two. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,389]

4 hours ago, sue said:

Yeah, I reeckon the coach doesn't say 'have rest boys', but maybe he says "let's try a bit of plan #3B for 10 minutes". Would you notice on TV? I wouldn't.

Hit the nail on the head.

In an interview last week Staffford was talking about the Saints game and said there were things we wanted to work on in our game and coming up against a good side like St Kilda tested those and he referred to 'contest' and 'territory'. 

I suspect that experimenting happens quite regularly but is invisible to the observer.

Wouldn't be good if commentators could identify changes in tactics rather than describe what we can see and waffle on about trivia and irrelevancies.  Of course, it won't happen.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[bush demon 2,033]

20 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Underwood's pre-game preparation . . . make sure I:

1. mention the 2021 grand final (200 times),
2. remember that Jackson is from WA,
3. note that Brayshaw's brother is at Freeo,
4. remind everyone that Jackson once played basketball,
5. always refer to Ben Brown as Big Ben Brown,
6. say that Jackson used to love Nic Nat,
7. declare that May and Lever are good footballers,
8. mention that Jackson used to support Meth Coke (10 times),
9. observe that Kosi is a good footballer,
10. suggest that Jackson will be keen to drive his price up today (five times).

You are all over this, well done. For mine I don't even bother to watch these games till they are over even though I have kayo.

Go Dees.

[sisso 2,577]

26 minutes ago, Pates said:

I don’t know what to think when I’m hearing fans of a team that watched us go through seasons of winning 2 games for the entire year complain about a 74 win that was just about stitched up by quarter time. 

Could we have played better? Absolutely. But I actually do buy the theory that our club ethos right now is do what we need but don’t over exert. I laugh about the fact that this time last season there were complaints that we weren’t putting teams to the sword. Now we do but it’s not enough?

Far out we are spoilt right now. We know the level these guys can go to, I trust the coach and the players to bring it when required. 

By the way, TMac getting a little bit better touch is only a good thing. I actually like the fact our forward line gets a spread of goal kickers rather than one guy getting bags of 5-7 and the others bobbing up for one or two. 

This 100%

We have a wonderful team chock full of stars the like of which we might not see again in a lot of our lifetimes - enjoy every win! I cant get my head around the minority who whinge either 

[bush demon 2,033]

32 minutes ago, bush demon said:

You are all over this, well done. For mine I don't even bother to watch these games till they are over even though I have kayo.

Go Dees.

I think your KA has picked up on the rich heritage of grandstanding TV callers I suffered through my prime years: Mike Williamson, Peter Landy and Sandy Roberts.

[Deedubs 157]

54 minutes ago, Pates said:

I don’t know what to think when I’m hearing fans of a team that watched us go through seasons of winning 2 games for the entire year complain about a 74 win that was just about stitched up by quarter time. 

Could we have played better? Absolutely. But I actually do buy the theory that our club ethos right now is do what we need but don’t over exert. I laugh about the fact that this time last season there were complaints that we weren’t putting teams to the sword. Now we do but it’s not enough?

Far out we are spoilt right now. We know the level these guys can go to, I trust the coach and the players to bring it when required. 

By the way, TMac getting a little bit better touch is only a good thing. I actually like the fact our forward line gets a spread of goal kickers rather than one guy getting bags of 5-7 and the others bobbing up for one or two. 

So why would May say that wins feel like losses? Because this is definitely how I've felted after scraping over the line against some pretty average teams. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2022-melbourne-def-st-kilda-steven-may-interview-undefeated-streak-fixture-how-good-are-they/news-story/15b4697e3786c5800a00a1ee995553a5

[Pates 9,655]

1 hour ago, Deedubs said:

So why would May say that wins feel like losses? Because this is definitely how I've felted after scraping over the line against some pretty average teams. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2022-melbourne-def-st-kilda-steven-may-interview-undefeated-streak-fixture-how-good-are-they/news-story/15b4697e3786c5800a00a1ee995553a5

Because May is an effing legend and is keeping the boys on the straight and narrow. He also basically said we take the wins and get on with the next job. I don’t take any win for granted whether it’s a 1pt win or a 100pt win, and May knows that things can turn quickly if we’re not switched on. 

He also knows we’re capable of better, so he expects better of them. 

Remember the feeling of losing by 70+ points and thinking the other team barely tried? Well the Eagles get to feel that, and that makes me happy. 

[Deedubs 157]

4 minutes ago, Pates said:

Because May is an effing legend and is keeping the boys on the straight and narrow. He also basically said we take the wins and get on with the next job. I don’t take any win for granted whether it’s a 1pt win or a 100pt win, and May knows that things can turn quickly if we’re not switched on. 

He also knows we’re capable of better, so he expects better of them. 

Remember the feeling of losing by 70+ points and thinking the other team barely tried? Well the Eagles get to feel that, and that makes me happy. 

Lol. that's exactly what I'm saying. 2 sets of standards. But I'll take what your saying as I'm an effing legend too.  Cheers! 

[sisso 2,577]

Most of us have sat through a hell of a lot of losses and believe me they feel nothing at all like wins

[Pates 9,655]

29 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

Lol. that's exactly what I'm saying. 2 sets of standards. But I'll take what your saying as I'm an effing legend too.  Cheers! 

I suppose my larger point is that it seems laughable for the fans to complain about a 74 point win. By all means be critical, there hasn’t been one game that it’s all clicked in my book, but at the same time I just sit back and enjoy the fact we are 9-0 and still waiting to see the best of our team. 

[Adam The God 30,065]

5 hours ago, Nascent said:

Don't get me wrong, I never doubted we would win and was relaxed in that sense. Just thought we were off from our normal defensive intensity. 

I thought our intensity was off in the first 5-10 minutes of the game, otherwise it was pretty good. But each to their own.

[Deedubs 157]

18 minutes ago, A F said:

I thought our intensity was off in the first 5-10 minutes of the game, otherwise it was pretty good. But each to their own.

Yeah, the first 5-10 we were off but we picked it up for the 2nd half of the quarter. 

Our forward zone that we set up after a behind wasn't working though. They got through it every time with ease.

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

Coming out of a 74 point win and still having room for improvement is a great spot to be in. 

Tracc's goal kicking has taken a turn for the worse though, looks like he has no confidence in himself and no real routine walking in to kick. His ability to create separation between him and his opponent and his ability to mark overhead means he gets great set shot looks each week but at the moment doesn't seem to converting as regularly as he did last year. I'm sure he'll work on it and find some consistency. 

Go Dees! 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

8 hours ago, Deedubs said:

I call it as a I see it. The supporters that say 'Oh we played in 2nd gear and still won' or 'we just toy with the opposition and go bang when we need' are illogical views and a strange stance to take. Do you think playing in 2nd gear is by design? Of course not. Keeping in mind that we played a WCE with half their team out and 22 players out in total. A team that Casey would've beaten by 10 goals. Eventually, the 2nd gear is our only gear if it's the only thing we know how to do. 

So at quarter time, Goodwin says 'alright guys, solid first quarter now take the foot off the gas'? Laughable logic. Then at half time just after we've kicked 1 goal in 30 mins and get outplayed for the majority of the quarter Goodwin and every other full time coaching staff gets the players in together and say 'no worries guys, another 30 mins of that will be fine. They're the standards that we're trying to set at the MFC. No need to be ruthless. No need for %. Let's just continue to make Connor West look like a 3 time Brownlow medalist. Let's just continue to give them the easy 45 kick from kick-ins and to exit our defensive zone with ease. Let's not hit the top of the goal square to a 1 on 1 when going inside 50m. Let's go to the pockets to a 50/50 or even better turn it over'. 

If the full time coaching staff aren't saying these things, which they clearly wouldn't be, then it's on the players. A trend has now become a habit and it's justifiably concerning that we go a full half against a VFL reserves standard opposition and kick only 3 goals. The first and last quarter should be the minimum standard for all quarters. 

'Old school views' are the views where people just look at the margin and that's the only analysis they possess. Some junk time goals in the last doesn't help fix our inability to score or to put the foot on the throat. Most of the commentators were all saying the same thing, as well as pretty much all official match reports. You can't analyse the match without talking about a full hour of football where a vfl reserves team restricted us to 3 goals in a half. 

I'm critical because I recognise that our tough games haven't even started yet and we haven't played a team in the top 5 yet. It would be nice if people actually analysed the game instead of being like '74 points, light work. Next'. It's these supporters that are absolutely gob smacked when we get smacked by 50 points one week to a bottom 8 team. 

But if you want positive, it was good to see Pickett hit some form and get through the game with no major injuries. 

 

Deedubs, WTF are you talking about?

Firstly, Casey would not be beating WCE by 10 goals. Casey beat North Reserves by 110 points on the weekend but North had 3 AFL-listed players playing for them, not the 11 or so of WCE's best 22 that actually played against Melbourne. There were certaintly a couple of WAFL-level players playing for WCE but not the 20 or so that played for North Reserves yesterday. I note by your 2nd paragraph you were talking about Connor West looking like a 3-time Brownlow Medallist and by the 3rd paragraph WCE had become a VFL Reserves team. Seriously? Or are we just supposed to guess at the bits of your analysis you want to be taken seriously?

I agree with you that talk of us playing in 2nd Gear is pretty superficial and of course not the way it works. I also think that in the 2nd & 3rd Quarters there was far too much bombing the ball into the forward line, but I don't agree that it's a case of just being able to extend the way we play in the dominant periods to whole matches. AFL Football just doesn't work that way. You have periods when you get run-ons, periods where your opponent does likewise, periods when you dominate but can't score, the same for your opponent, and It's not possible to play at 100% of your capabilities for 100% of the time. You do what you need to do to win matches and anything on top of that is a bonus. Look at the Port Adelaide game. Half way through the 2nd Quarter and it was 1 goal to none and we don't look like scoring, but we knew we play the game plan eventually we will break through as we did (and as we have in every game this year). 

I fully appreciate Melbourne have some tough games to come, but if you're so into game analysis why aren't you analysing our future opponents, all of whom have flaws and have mixed form at times. Instead you throw out a misleading statement like we haven't played a team in the Top 5 yet. St Kilda were 4th when we played them last week and that was after a 1-point loss to Port the week before. They're not in the Top 5 because they played us and lost! No-one seems to take account of the fact there are 9 teams (including 2 teams in the Top 8) whose positions on the ladder are worse because they've played us and 8 whose position is better because they haven't. If you don't like superficial statements on winning margins why do you throw out a Top 5 statement like it actually means something? We haven't played these teams but on revealed form the only one of them that looks up to our current standard (let alone your idea of perfection) is Brisbane. We have beaten Western Bulldogs and Port (away) who finished 2nd & 3rd in 2021. But suddenly because they're not in the Top 8 they can't play anymore and the Melbourne wins are worthless. Now that's superficial analysis if ever I've seen it.

[monoccular 17,409]

2 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

Unbelievable inconsistency.  An embarrassment to the AFL!  A blight on the competition!

I give up!

very selective about who get thrown under the bus and who gets an armchair ride. Serial offenders like Lynch Ryan Hawking always find a way out.  No namers always get screwed. 
if that ain’t corruption, what is it?
 

 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

8 hours ago, Deedubs said:

You call them WCE, it was a vfl reserves standard team on paper with their outs. So I don't care what strategies they put in place or how they played to slow down our scoring. It's irrelevant. 

The round 1 game you reference was probably our best game for the season. 

I'm amazed to hear you say that. I assumed since the Bulldogs aren't Top 5 it wouldn't count. I was at that game and when the Bulldogs kicked 8 unanswered goals in 15 minutes (2 at the end of the 1st, 6 in the first half of the 2nd) I was disappointed. I thought we should go all the way through the Season without allowing any opponent to score 2 consecutive goals 😄. Seriously though, I just shared a rueful smile with my brother and remembered 2021. One loss is not the end of the world (and it was neither in the end).

5 hours ago, Deedubs said:

You mention that it's not the margin that is the metric that we care about but instead how we play our brand and that's exactly how I am. How we play. My thoughts echo Steven May's thoughts: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2022-melbourne-def-st-kilda-steven-may-interview-undefeated-streak-fixture-how-good-are-they/news-story/15b4697e3786c5800a00a1ee995553a5

So people who are telling me to 'get a grip' can also tell Steven May to get a grip. I'd like to think Steven May has a pretty good grasp on things and the way we are going. He wouldn't be content with how we're playing and either should demonlanders. 

I don't think anyone thinks Melbourne is playing perfect football or there isn't room for improvement. Steven May has high expectations which is fantastic. Important in a player, not so crucial in a fan. We would all love perfection. It's just that it's also OK to enjoy what we have now, which you seem incapable of.

3 hours ago, Deedubs said:

So why would May say that wins feel like losses? Because this is definitely how I've felted after scraping over the line against some pretty average teams. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2022-melbourne-def-st-kilda-steven-may-interview-undefeated-streak-fixture-how-good-are-they/news-story/15b4697e3786c5800a00a1ee995553a5

For God's sake, we have not 'scraped over the line' in any games this season. We have never been in danger of losing a single game. Yes, we have beaten some average teams, and also some pretty good ones (St Kilda, Richmond, and don't write off Western Bulldogs or Port yet). And some of those average teams have beaten teams we are yet to play. But I think you should definitely mark us down because we haven't beaten the teams we haven't played yet.

[rpfc 28,239]

9 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

 

This is not how life works. 

A surgeon who is terrible at their job and kills a patient can't use "Well YOU try and perform an appendectomy without killing the patient!" as a defence.

It's my job to do MY job well, and it's her job to do HER job well.

 

Here we go again… you kill one person and everyone is on you…

Surgery IS hard, a you SHOULD try it! 

I tried it, and it didn’t work out but hey someone needed their liver out!

Edit: right, appendix. Ironically, that was the problem in the theatre!

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,217]

There were a few times where players didn't pass to a teammate in a better position ....

BBB

Tmac

Kozzy ... although he ran into an open goal but poor Lingers looked pretty pixxed off not to receive the handball

Having said that, they all kicked goals ...

Trac ... guilty, and missed a couple of times

 

I presume these are pointed out in their reviews.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Winners at last

[CHF 2,716]

Things I like....

Having 9 straight wins to start the season.

Beating West Coast by a record margin in Perth

Winning all 4 quarters in the game

Watching the team perform and feeling comfortable in the result.

The all team performance.

Being on top of the ladder with a healthy percentage.

Things I don't like...

Some supporters expectations

Things I observed

Max having a quiet but effective game.

A really good combined effort in both attack and defence from the midfield

A good covering defence that work to cover one another.

Jordon's game was the best he has had at the club.

Brayshaw's play at HB is making it hard to move him on once Salem is back.

Once again we controlled the game from start to finish.

 

[BDA 22,693]

8 hours ago, rpfc said:

Here we go again… you kill one person and everyone is on you…

Surgery IS hard, a you SHOULD try it! 

I tried it, and it didn’t work out but hey someone needed their liver out!

Edit: right, appendix. Ironically, that was the problem in the theatre!

Rodney Dangerfield was an under-rated comedian

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

Titus’s take on the game sums it up perfectly 

West Coast (38) v Melbourne (112)

Expansion team West Coast continue to struggle this season but there were some promising signs as they only suffered their biggest loss to Melbourne in their history.

The Demons scored 41 points in the first quarter, meaning they didn’t have to score again, and they still would have won the game.

That’s almost what they did, as the Eagles lifted their intensity and managed to drag the Demons down to their level for long periods of the match.

Melbourne though are like a boxer who tried to win on points, not knockouts.

They do enough to make sure they don’t lose. They can score, but they prefer to let their opponent wear themselves out.

The result of this approach is 16 wins on the trot, a feat I still struggle to comprehend.

I’ve gone decades where it felt like we only won sixteen games.

The thing about sport is you must enjoy the good times because we all know, the bad times are not exactly rare.

[layzie 33,728]

16 hours ago, Pates said:

I don’t know what to think when I’m hearing fans of a team that watched us go through seasons of winning 2 games for the entire year complain about a 74 win that was just about stitched up by quarter time. 

Could we have played better? Absolutely. But I actually do buy the theory that our club ethos right now is do what we need but don’t over exert. I laugh about the fact that this time last season there were complaints that we weren’t putting teams to the sword. Now we do but it’s not enough?

Far out we are spoilt right now. We know the level these guys can go to, I trust the coach and the players to bring it when required. 

By the way, TMac getting a little bit better touch is only a good thing. I actually like the fact our forward line gets a spread of goal kickers rather than one guy getting bags of 5-7 and the others bobbing up for one or two. 

We didn't play well and won by 74 points, there are few times in most of our lives where this picture is a reality. I'm not going to have a go at the attitude that this isn't good enough, we've won the thing now and people are entitled to have whatever attitude they like but in an extremely short space of time it has gone to our heads, mine included. 

When I watch footy, even now with the team we have, I never try to put an expected margin on a game. I think it's silly in a competition of equalisation and the fact that if any given team brings their A game they can still make a decent fist of it. Yeah I might have gone into this one thinking we'd win convincingly but it gets dangerous when you start expecting no less than 100 point wins. It is ok to expect and demand a certain level of success but let's not forget these things are hard to win in the first place. It was just over two years ago we went over there in Rd 1 and totally honked it up, who would have thought we'd make this stadium our honorary second home.

Marathon and not a sprint, yes there were moments in this game where we got a bit lax and we don't want to run into a top side with these attitudes but I have no doubt at all the coaching staff is harping on about this. 

Also thought it was great to see T-mac find some tough. We've got a forward line again looking hard to prepare for.

Edited May 16, 2022 by layzie

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Deedubs said:

So why would May say that wins feel like losses? Because this is definitely how I've felted after scraping over the line against some pretty average teams. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2022-melbourne-def-st-kilda-steven-may-interview-undefeated-streak-fixture-how-good-are-they/news-story/15b4697e3786c5800a00a1ee995553a5

Glad you found an outlet for your frustrations

[dazzledavey36 54,116]

Good to see Dr Who has made a comeback....