Part 2: Top 100 players of the past 50 years - 61-80

[Deespicable 2,880]

In the second part of his series on his top 100 players of past 50 years, regular Demonlander Deespicable ranks 61-80

So now we are getting down to the guys who were damn fine players on their day but were just a tackle, smother or a matchwinning goal away from being regarded as outright stars.
The three hardest to rank were the three ruckman from 63-65 on my list. It’s amazing as bad as we were at times throughout the past five decades, we have always been able to produce high-quality ruckmen. In fact we are the only club with five All-Australian tappers – O’Dwyer, Stynes, White, Jamar and Gawn. On top of that Peter Moore won the Brownlow for us in 1984 – albeit being overlooked for All-Australian selection to Simon Madden and Andrew Purser that year.
Of course just as some old-timers like me argue about whether Woey or Graham Teasdale or Tony Liberatore were worthy Charlie recipients, a case could be made about how Strawb and the Russian actually got an All-Aussie gong.
That’s not me being denigrating, it just that Madden and Aaron Sandilands were the clear No.1 in the years that our boys saluted and you wonder why they bothered to choose a back-up. But they did and as a result I am left wondering whether I have the duo high enough on my list.
Feedback please.

61 Jack Watts 09-17 153 games, 143 goals
So is he a great? Or a great waste of talent. It’s hard not be cruel about our infamous No.1 pick of 2008 who is clearly one of our most skilled players ever – right up there with Robbie and Dollars and Trapper. Sure we’d have rather have had NicNat, but if we did, we wouldn’t have taken Max Gawn the following year. Maybe it was the way we gifted him the Queen’s Birthday game to bump up our home crowd, but he always seemed more happy in his role as our No.1 promotions officer than he did nailing tackles. And as a result he became synonymous with what’s wrong with Melbourne, rather than someone who should have been properly developed from day one – the Dogs have a similar problem with Ugle-Hagan right now. After Roosy tried to restore his confidence, Goody, some might say to his credit, seemed to realise that he was a bit of a trainwreck and sent him packing to Port. But here’s the thing. Hands up if you got out of your seat to cheer the loudest you ever have when he converted after Alex Rance manhandled him on Anzac Eve in 2016? Or when he waltzed down the wing and kicked the sealer against the Pies in 2017. And which player would you like to have a beer with most of all. A great man I reckon.

 

62 Peter Giles 79-87 124 games, 32 goals
Like Watts, another player given Norm Smith's No.4. He was recruited from Sandringham as a forward, but he had this awkward kicking style and at 187cm was hardly going to split packs, so we turned him into a defender. He played tight at full-back and used his body well like Hibbo does, but we were so bad back then that he copped a few batterings. He played on Michael Roach in 1980 when he kicked nine goals to bring up the ton. But the one that everyone remembers was when he was KO’d in the second quarter by Leigh Matthews at the MCG in 1982 - the second of four Dees the lethal champ sent to La La Land over the years. Once he woke up, Gilesy came back on as a forward and kicked three goals to inspire a comeback, including I think a go-ahead goal from the boundary, but Lethal then stepped up to spoil the story. But Gilesy got some redemption with a super game in a memorable win over the Hawks in 1984 at Princes Park.

 

63 Garry Baker 74-81 127 games, 112 goals
Recruited from Footscray who had Gary Dempsey marking everything, he wasn’t quite as tall (just 193cm) but did a pretty good Garry 2.0 impersonation with similar sticky fingers – he took 17 marks one day against the Cats’ Jeff Fehring, which was probably more than the number of hitouts he ever won given his size. He was good for a goal in the resting ruck role most games as well and had a beard that Maxy would be proud of today. He even won our B&F in 1978 before a knee injury in 1980 curtailed his movement and he wasn’t that quick beforehand, so Barass sent him packing.

64 Mark Jamar 02-15 155 games, 56 goals
I had a lot of trouble deciding where to rank the Russian. I mean before this year he was one of only a handful of Dees to make an All-Australian line up and he did kick five goals against Carlton one day. But you’d be hard-pressed to view him as a great, although he was clearly a handy, humble servant, putting
his body on the line for more than a decade, often down at Casey. Only once in his 14 seasons did he play every game – in 2010 when he had an impressive 643 tap-outs and finished third in the Bluey Truscott and sat on the AA bench as back-up for Aaron Sandilands. And unlike Woey and the Brownlow, he hasn’t copped it for being one of the least qualified AA selections of all time. For us though, as a ruckman, he’s in a battle with Strawbs and Bakes for our fifth best tapman of the past 50 years – such has been the quality we have produced in the rucking area. He started off playing third fiddle to Jeff White and Darren Jolly and finished up as our third wheel behind Gawny and Pencil.

65 Steven O’Dwyer 87-91 84 games, 45 goals
Big Strawb will long be remembered for missing the 1988 GF when suspended but the feisty redhead was also unlucky to miss our breakthrough night premiership in 1987. He’d just made his debut against St Kilda and impressed against Alan Sidebottom but copped a two-week suspension that ruled him out of the night granny. By 1988 he was a huge presence and a John Northey favourite, so much so that he won our B&F that year. His absence against the Hawks proved telling with it forcing some major positional tinkering that proved catastrophic. With Jim Stynes developing rapidly, the club seemed to lose a little faith in Strawbs after 1990 and the umps weren’t fans of his style either - he gave away seven free kicks against Geelong in a 1989 final. But at the time he was very good at winning the hitout, even if his groundwork was a long way short of Gawny or Jimmy.

66 Jared Rivers 03-12 150 games
After an inaugural season spent primarily developing at our then VFL affiliate Sandringham, the Adelaide defender was outstanding in his first full season and with his intercept marking skills on show and he quickly became Rising Star favourite, pipping teammate Aaron Davey in a year that frankly was a bit light on – no Sam Walsh’s on the horizon with Adam Cooney a slowish starter that season. After winning it he lost his way a bit in 2005, but was back taking aerial risks in 2006, helping us to the finals. Injury took its toll for the next two years and I reckon ultimately he just didn’t have the body strength to manage the power forwards. Certainly he frustrated Mark Neeld (but who didn’t) and with T-Mac being developed as a defender, Rivers was sacrificed and sent forward. He even snagged four goals against GWS that year. But having endured the club at its worst, he knew his time was up and headed to Geelong where he played three more years and quite a few finals.

67 Matthew Whelan 00-09 150 games
A Darwin lad who had impressed in the SANFL, Wheels burst on the scene in 2000 where he showed amazing courage to often fly back into approaching packs for intercept marks and his pace made him a weapon at Marvel Stadium of all places. He wasn’t a thumping kick (he was a small after all), but he was clever and disciplined in the Nev Jetta style and his absence through injury during finals campaigns in 00 and 02 proved costly. When he eventually got to play a final in 2004, it was memorable, shirtfronting James Hird. He also inadvertently injured Nathan Brown in a tackle and in 2008 got suspended for striking Brendan Fevola – so the big names didn’t worry him and he kept wearing his No.45 even when low numbers were available for an upgrade.

68 Earl Spalding 87-91 109 games, 63 goals
One of my favourites, the Duke arrived at Melbourne from the west as part of the “give Robbie a taste of the finals” recruiting spree that landed Todd Viney and Warren Dean. He started as a lanky CHB and he always looked a tad unco-ordinated, particularly when kicking for goal. But he could mark it like Greg
Parke and as a result we sent him forward and alongside Lyon, Stynes and eventually Allen Jakovich, we had aerial superiority over most teams. He actually only played with us for five seasons before Swooper felt his errant kicking and apparently, lack of toughness, was too much and shipped him off to Carlton. Four years later he was a key member of their almost invincible 1995 flag side, so he was definitely one that got away.

69 Andy Lovell 88-95 121 games, 146 goals
Dad Greg was a world wood-chopping champion, so he arrived from Glenorchy as a teenager in 1988 with the nickname Chopper. He was a thick-set but classy small forward who also played as a mid and was still attending Melbourne High when he made our 1988 GF side and with Steven Febey was one of two Tassie teenagers in our line up that day. He had plenty of good days, snagging eight against a lame Tigers in 1993, but I reckon his five-goal game against the Roos at the MCG in 1994 was probably his best. Not sure why we sent him to West Coast at the end of 1995, but he was a lot more handy for them than exchangee Craig Turley was for us.

70 James Harmes 14- 122 games
One of those lifeblood of the club type players. He’s been criticised heavily by almost every regular Demonlander for his at times errant disposal, yet it was his pin-point pass to Fritter that got us going in the grand final. He was third in our breakout 2018 B&F and his antics when he stood up to Joel Selwood in the elimination final make every Dee fans must-watch list. He didn’t quite cope with the switch to defence in 2020, but he was back to his best when he returned as a close-checking midfielder against the Swans in 2021.

71 Michael Hibberd 17- 89 games
Good old Hibbo came across to us after the Bombers’ supplements saga and made an immediate impact with a huge game in our unlucky Anzac Eve loss to Richmond. Despite missing the first four weeks with a hammy, he ended up making the All-Australian team as a dashing, tough left-footer. The
best thing about Hibbo is that he uses his body so well. Go back and watch a replay of the first quarter of the granny and you will see just how valuable he is, just ask JJ who came off second best.

72 Jack Grimes 08-16 100 games
As with Trenners, how do you assess our former captain who almost didn’t make the 100-game club. Regarded as a draft steal at pick No.14 in 2007 (aren’t they all), a back-related stress injury delayed his rise and he played in eight losing sides before the club downed West Coast by 20 points. He took 16 marks and had 29 disposals off half-back at the MCG that day along with three Brownlow votes and a star was born. The following year the tide seemed to be turning our way and he became a fan favourite until round 14 when he hobbled off with back stress recurrence. The next year it was a navicular foot stress injury, but despite all that, he was promoted to the captaincy for 2012 under Mark Neeld having played just 32 games. To his credit, he managed 21 games the next year and he was always honest and humble – hard not to be some might say given he ended with a token 100-gamer and retired to the suburban leagues with just 22 wins to his name. I like to remember him for that fist on a Patrick Dangerfield lead during our upset win in Adelaide in 2014. I suspect if he was 5cm taller and at the right
club, he would have been just like his three-time premiership winning brother.

73 Anthony Ingerson 96-01 121 games
Some Demonlanders will tell you that Ingo was our best full-back (period) but having seen Sean Wight in his prime that just isn’t correct. But after being let go by Adelaide, he gave us six good seasons until knee injury. A bit of an ugly left-footer, his main strength was diligent and courageous manning of his
opponents that included the master of the flop Matthew Lloyd, whom he kept relatively quiet in the 2000GF (four goals).

74 Andrew Leoncelli 96-03 146 games
Another slow-burner who tried out at Carlton but it wasn’t until a super season at Old Xavs in 1995 that Melbourne came calling and his AFL debut came soon after his 22 nd birthday. A bit like Trac with the media, the No.36 was a regular by 1998 playing mainly as a high half-forward with occasional stints on
the ball. He was a clever ball user and his 2000 season (fifth in B&F) was impressive although like many mates, he didn’t see much of it in the granny.

75 Peter Rohde 88-95 163 games
Another Carlton discard who found his way to Melbourne and became a lock off half-back during the Swooper Northey period when we were pretty competitive. From memory he had quite a few hamstring issues, but when fit he was a nice long kick. He had a memorable Queen’s Birthday game in 1993 being
sent forward and snagging three in our win against the Filth.

76 Brad Miller 02-10 133 games, 89 goals
Drafted from Mt Gravatt in Qld, he always looked the part, but never really took the game by the scruff of the neck. He stats in 2004 when we won six straight to briefly top the table, were hardly flattering but as a CHF, he made good position and took a big out to allow Neiter more room. Arguably his best game
was against Freo in the second week of the 2006 finals where he took 14 marks. He topped our goalkicking in 2008, but by then we needed him to be Wayne Carey for us to win games.

77 Matthew Febey 87, 90-00 143 games
The draft was only just getting started when the Dees punted on the Tasmanian Febey twins from Devonport. While Steven enjoyed instant success, Matthew had to do it the hard way, even being delisted and re-rookied along the way before getting a gig on the left-side wing in 1990. As with his brother, he was extremely fit and that’s why he was a regular under Balmey and the Reverend until injuries in 2000 brought on his retirement.

78 Daniel Ward 97-07 136 games
Another of the Reverend’s hard workers, he began as a rookie half-back from Fitzroy reserves and ended up having a go in our midfield where he provided a bit of dash and courage, although he probably wasn’t a natural in the give-and-go, in and under caper. Got into strife with gambling late in his career, but he was a reliable No.10 for 10 seasons, even if he sprayed the odd kick.

79 Paul Wheatley 00-09 135 games
He burst on the scene in 2000 when Dustin Fletcher and Ben Graham were the kings of the long ball and wasn’t that far off getting a gig in the granny that year. He often took the kick-ins and anyone who marked a ball around the 50m mark looked to dish it off to him as he could kick it 60m off one step. And if the NAB Cup nine-pointer had made its way into the AFL, then he probably would have played 200 games. But to be honest, he was just a tad slow to be a star and not quite tall enough to be a key defender in those days.

80 Clint Bizzell 02-07 88 games
Kicked 77 goals as a flamboyant forward at the Cats before crossing to the Dees in 2002 and becoming a regular under Daniher. Blessed with a nice leap and looks for TV, he was the first of our breed of intercept defenders, invariably drifting across to make life hard in the air for the opposition’s focal point.
A back injury and broken leg ruined his last two years, but he quickly found his post-football niche as a travel show host.

 

Link to 81-100

 

[dieter 3,325]

10 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

In the second part of his series on his top 100 players of past 50 years, regular Demonlander Deespicable ranks 61-80

So now we are getting down to the guys who were damn fine players on their day but were just a tackle, smother or a matchwinning goal away from being regarded as outright stars.
The three hardest to rank were the three ruckman from 63-65 on my list. It’s amazing as bad as we were at times throughout the past five decades, we have always been able to produce high-quality ruckmen. In fact we are the only club with five All-Australian tappers – O’Dwyer, Stynes, White, Jamar and Gawn. On top of that Peter Moore won the Brownlow for us in 1984 – albeit being overlooked for All-Australian selection to Simon Madden and Andrew Purser that year.
Of course just as some old-timers like me argue about whether Woey or Graham Teasdale or Tony Liberatore were worthy Charlie recipients, a case could be made about how Strawb and the Russian actually got an All-Aussie gong.
That’s not me being denigrating, it just that Madden and Aaron Sandilands were the clear No.1 in the years that our boys saluted and you wonder why they bothered to choose a back-up. But they did and as a result I am left wondering whether I have the duo high enough on my list.
Feedback please.

61 Jack Watts 09-17 153 games, 143 goals
So is he a great? Or a great waste of talent. It’s hard not be cruel about our infamous No.1 pick of 2008 who is clearly one of our most skilled players ever – right up there with Robbie and Dollars and Trapper. Sure we’d have rather have had NicNat, but if we did, we wouldn’t have taken Max Gawn the following year. Maybe it was the way we gifted him the Queen’s Birthday game to bump up our home crowd, but he always seemed more happy in his role as our No.1 promotions officer than he did nailing tackles. And as a result he became synonymous with what’s wrong with Melbourne, rather than someone who should have been properly developed from day one – the Dogs have a similar problem with Ugle-Hagan right now. After Roosy tried to restore his confidence, Goody, some might say to his credit, seemed to realise that he was a bit of a trainwreck and sent him packing to Port. But here’s the thing. Hands up if you got out of your seat to cheer the loudest you ever have when he converted after Alex Rance manhandled him on Anzac Eve in 2016? Or when he waltzed down the wing and kicked the sealer against the Pies in 2017. And which player would you like to have a beer with most of all. A great man I reckon.

 

62 Peter Giles 79-87 124 games, 32 goals
Like Watts, another player given Norm Smith's No.4. He was recruited from Sandringham as a forward, but he had this awkward kicking style and at 187cm was hardly going to split packs, so we turned him into a defender. He played tight at full-back and used his body well like Hibbo does, but we were so bad back then that he copped a few batterings. He played on Michael Roach in 1980 when he kicked nine goals to bring up the ton. But the one that everyone remembers was when he was KO’d in the second quarter by Leigh Matthews at the MCG in 1982 - the second of four Dees the lethal champ sent to La La Land over the years. Once he woke up, Gilesy came back on as a forward and kicked three goals to inspire a comeback, including I think a go-ahead goal from the boundary, but Lethal then stepped up to spoil the story. But Gilesy got some redemption with a super game in a memorable win over the Hawks in 1984 at Princes Park.

 

63 Garry Baker 74-81 127 games, 112 goals
Recruited from Footscray who had Gary Dempsey marking everything, he wasn’t quite as tall (just 193cm) but did a pretty good Garry 2.0 impersonation with similar sticky fingers – he took 17 marks one day against the Cats’ Jeff Fehring, which was probably more than the number of hitouts he ever won given his size. He was good for a goal in the resting ruck role most games as well and had a beard that Maxy would be proud of today. He even won our B&F in 1978 before a knee injury in 1980 curtailed his movement and he wasn’t that quick beforehand, so Barass sent him packing.

64 Mark Jamar 02-15 155 games, 56 goals
I had a lot of trouble deciding where to rank the Russian. I mean before this year he was one of only a handful of Dees to make an All-Australian line up and he did kick five goals against Carlton one day. But you’d be hard-pressed to view him as a great, although he was clearly a handy, humble servant, putting
his body on the line for more than a decade, often down at Casey. Only once in his 14 seasons did he play every game – in 2010 when he had an impressive 643 tap-outs and finished third in the Bluey Truscott and sat on the AA bench as back-up for Aaron Sandilands. And unlike Woey and the Brownlow, he hasn’t copped it for being one of the least qualified AA selections of all time. For us though, as a ruckman, he’s in a battle with Strawbs and Bakes for our fifth best tapman of the past 50 years – such has been the quality we have produced in the rucking area. He started off playing third fiddle to Jeff White and Darren Jolly and finished up as our third wheel behind Gawny and Pencil.

65 Steven O’Dwyer 87-91 84 games, 45 goals
Big Strawb will long be remembered for missing the 1988 GF when suspended but the feisty redhead was also unlucky to miss our breakthrough night premiership in 1987. He’d just made his debut against St Kilda and impressed against Alan Sidebottom but copped a two-week suspension that ruled him out of the night granny. By 1988 he was a huge presence and a John Northey favourite, so much so that he won our B&F that year. His absence against the Hawks proved telling with it forcing some major positional tinkering that proved catastrophic. With Jim Stynes developing rapidly, the club seemed to lose a little faith in Strawbs after 1990 and the umps weren’t fans of his style either - he gave away seven free kicks against Geelong in a 1989 final. But at the time he was very good at winning the hitout, even if his groundwork was a long way short of Gawny or Jimmy.

66 Jared Rivers 03-12 150 games
After an inaugural season spent primarily developing at our then VFL affiliate Sandringham, the Adelaide defender was outstanding in his first full season and with his intercept marking skills on show and he quickly became Rising Star favourite, pipping teammate Aaron Davey in a year that frankly was a bit light on – no Sam Walsh’s on the horizon with Adam Cooney a slowish starter that season. After winning it he lost his way a bit in 2005, but was back taking aerial risks in 2006, helping us to the finals. Injury took its toll for the next two years and I reckon ultimately he just didn’t have the body strength to manage the power forwards. Certainly he frustrated Mark Neeld (but who didn’t) and with T-Mac being developed as a defender, Rivers was sacrificed and sent forward. He even snagged four goals against GWS that year. But having endured the club at its worst, he knew his time was up and headed to Geelong where he played three more years and quite a few finals.

67 Matthew Whelan 00-09 150 games
A Darwin lad who had impressed in the SANFL, Wheels burst on the scene in 2000 where he showed amazing courage to often fly back into approaching packs for intercept marks and his pace made him a weapon at Marvel Stadium of all places. He wasn’t a thumping kick (he was a small after all), but he was clever and disciplined in the Nev Jetta style and his absence through injury during finals campaigns in 00 and 02 proved costly. When he eventually got to play a final in 2004, it was memorable, shirtfronting James Hird. He also inadvertently injured Nathan Brown in a tackle and in 2008 got suspended for striking Brendan Fevola – so the big names didn’t worry him and he kept wearing his No.45 even when low numbers were available for an upgrade.

68 Earl Spalding 87-91 109 games, 63 goals
One of my favourites, the Duke arrived at Melbourne from the west as part of the “give Robbie a taste of the finals” recruiting spree that landed Todd Viney and Warren Dean. He started as a lanky CHB and he always looked a tad unco-ordinated, particularly when kicking for goal. But he could mark it like Greg
Parke and as a result we sent him forward and alongside Lyon, Stynes and eventually Allen Jakovich, we had aerial superiority over most teams. He actually only played with us for five seasons before Swooper felt his errant kicking and apparently, lack of toughness, was too much and shipped him off to Carlton. Four years later he was a key member of their almost invincible 1995 flag side, so he was definitely one that got away.

69 Andy Lovell 88-95 121 games, 146 goals
Dad Greg was a world wood-chopping champion, so he arrived from Glenorchy as a teenager in 1988 with the nickname Chopper. He was a thick-set but classy small forward who also played as a mid and was still attending Melbourne High when he made our 1988 GF side and with Steven Febey was one of two Tassie teenagers in our line up that day. He had plenty of good days, snagging eight against a lame Tigers in 1993, but I reckon his five-goal game against the Roos at the MCG in 1994 was probably his best. Not sure why we sent him to West Coast at the end of 1995, but he was a lot more handy for them than exchangee Craig Turley was for us.

70 James Harmes 14- 122 games
One of those lifeblood of the club type players. He’s been criticised heavily by almost every regular Demonlander for his at times errant disposal, yet it was his pin-point pass to Fritter that got us going in the grand final. He was third in our breakout 2018 B&F and his antics when he stood up to Joel Selwood in the elimination final make every Dee fans must-watch list. He didn’t quite cope with the switch to defence in 2020, but he was back to his best when he returned as a close-checking midfielder against the Swans in 2021.

71 Michael Hibberd 17- 89 games
Good old Hibbo came across to us after the Bombers’ supplements saga and made an immediate impact with a huge game in our unlucky Anzac Eve loss to Richmond. Despite missing the first four weeks with a hammy, he ended up making the All-Australian team as a dashing, tough left-footer. The
best thing about Hibbo is that he uses his body so well. Go back and watch a replay of the first quarter of the granny and you will see just how valuable he is, just ask JJ who came off second best.

72 Jack Grimes 08-16 100 games
As with Trenners, how do you assess our former captain who almost didn’t make the 100-game club. Regarded as a draft steal at pick No.14 in 2007 (aren’t they all), a back-related stress injury delayed his rise and he played in eight losing sides before the club downed West Coast by 20 points. He took 16 marks and had 29 disposals off half-back at the MCG that day along with three Brownlow votes and a star was born. The following year the tide seemed to be turning our way and he became a fan favourite until round 14 when he hobbled off with back stress recurrence. The next year it was a navicular foot stress injury, but despite all that, he was promoted to the captaincy for 2012 under Mark Neeld having played just 32 games. To his credit, he managed 21 games the next year and he was always honest and humble – hard not to be some might say given he ended with a token 100-gamer and retired to the suburban leagues with just 22 wins to his name. I like to remember him for that fist on a Patrick Dangerfield lead during our upset win in Adelaide in 2014. I suspect if he was 5cm taller and at the right
club, he would have been just like his three-time premiership winning brother.

73 Anthony Ingerson 96-01 121 games
Some Demonlanders will tell you that Ingo was our best full-back (period) but having seen Sean Wight in his prime that just isn’t correct. But after being let go by Adelaide, he gave us six good seasons until knee injury. A bit of an ugly left-footer, his main strength was diligent and courageous manning of his
opponents that included the master of the flop Matthew Lloyd, whom he kept relatively quiet in the 2000GF (four goals).

74 Andrew Leoncelli 96-03 146 games
Another slow-burner who tried out at Carlton but it wasn’t until a super season at Old Xavs in 1995 that Melbourne came calling and his AFL debut came soon after his 22 nd birthday. A bit like Trac with the media, the No.36 was a regular by 1998 playing mainly as a high half-forward with occasional stints on
the ball. He was a clever ball user and his 2000 season (fifth in B&F) was impressive although like many mates, he didn’t see much of it in the granny.

75 Peter Rohde 88-95 163 games
Another Carlton discard who found his way to Melbourne and became a lock off half-back during the Swooper Northey period when we were pretty competitive. From memory he had quite a few hamstring issues, but when fit he was a nice long kick. He had a memorable Queen’s Birthday game in 1993 being
sent forward and snagging three in our win against the Filth.

76 Brad Miller 02-10 133 games, 89 goals
Drafted from Mt Gravatt in Qld, he always looked the part, but never really took the game by the scruff of the neck. He stats in 2004 when we won six straight to briefly top the table, were hardly flattering but as a CHF, he made good position and took a big out to allow Neiter more room. Arguably his best game
was against Freo in the second week of the 2006 finals where he took 14 marks. He topped our goalkicking in 2008, but by then we needed him to be Wayne Carey for us to win games.

77 Matthew Febey 87, 90-00 143 games
The draft was only just getting started when the Dees punted on the Tasmanian Febey twins from Devonport. While Steven enjoyed instant success, Matthew had to do it the hard way, even being delisted and re-rookied along the way before getting a gig on the left-side wing in 1990. As with his brother, he was extremely fit and that’s why he was a regular under Balmey and the Reverend until injuries in 2000 brought on his retirement.

78 Daniel Ward 97-07 136 games
Another of the Reverend’s hard workers, he began as a rookie half-back from Fitzroy reserves and ended up having a go in our midfield where he provided a bit of dash and courage, although he probably wasn’t a natural in the give-and-go, in and under caper. Got into strife with gambling late in his career, but he was a reliable No.10 for 10 seasons, even if he sprayed the odd kick.

79 Paul Wheatley 00-09 135 games
He burst on the scene in 2000 when Dustin Fletcher and Ben Graham were the kings of the long ball and wasn’t that far off getting a gig in the granny that year. He often took the kick-ins and anyone who marked a ball around the 50m mark looked to dish it off to him as he could kick it 60m off one step. And if the NAB Cup nine-pointer had made its way into the AFL, then he probably would have played 200 games. But to be honest, he was just a tad slow to be a star and not quite tall enough to be a key defender in those days.

80 Clint Bizzell 02-07 88 games
Kicked 77 goals as a flamboyant forward at the Cats before crossing to the Dees in 2002 and becoming a regular under Daniher. Blessed with a nice leap and looks for TV, he was the first of our breed of intercept defenders, invariably drifting across to make life hard in the air for the opposition’s focal point.
A back injury and broken leg ruined his last two years, but he quickly found his post-football niche as a travel show host.

 

Link to 81-100

 

Good stuff.

[WERRIDEE 5,502]

1 hour ago, Deespicable said:

In the second part of his series on his top 100 players of past 50 years, regular Demonlander Deespicable ranks 61-80

So now we are getting down to the guys who were damn fine players on their day but were just a tackle, smother or a matchwinning goal away from being regarded as outright stars.
The three hardest to rank were the three ruckman from 63-65 on my list. It’s amazing as bad as we were at times throughout the past five decades, we have always been able to produce high-quality ruckmen. In fact we are the only club with five All-Australian tappers – O’Dwyer, Stynes, White, Jamar and Gawn. On top of that Peter Moore won the Brownlow for us in 1984 – albeit being overlooked for All-Australian selection to Simon Madden and Andrew Purser that year.
Of course just as some old-timers like me argue about whether Woey or Graham Teasdale or Tony Liberatore were worthy Charlie recipients, a case could be made about how Strawb and the Russian actually got an All-Aussie gong.
That’s not me being denigrating, it just that Madden and Aaron Sandilands were the clear No.1 in the years that our boys saluted and you wonder why they bothered to choose a back-up. But they did and as a result I am left wondering whether I have the duo high enough on my list.
Feedback please.

61 Jack Watts 09-17 153 games, 143 goals
So is he a great? Or a great waste of talent. It’s hard not be cruel about our infamous No.1 pick of 2008 who is clearly one of our most skilled players ever – right up there with Robbie and Dollars and Trapper. Sure we’d have rather have had NicNat, but if we did, we wouldn’t have taken Max Gawn the following year. Maybe it was the way we gifted him the Queen’s Birthday game to bump up our home crowd, but he always seemed more happy in his role as our No.1 promotions officer than he did nailing tackles. And as a result he became synonymous with what’s wrong with Melbourne, rather than someone who should have been properly developed from day one – the Dogs have a similar problem with Ugle-Hagan right now. After Roosy tried to restore his confidence, Goody, some might say to his credit, seemed to realise that he was a bit of a trainwreck and sent him packing to Port. But here’s the thing. Hands up if you got out of your seat to cheer the loudest you ever have when he converted after Alex Rance manhandled him on Anzac Eve in 2016? Or when he waltzed down the wing and kicked the sealer against the Pies in 2017. And which player would you like to have a beer with most of all. A great man I reckon.

 

62 Peter Giles 79-87 124 games, 32 goals
Like Watts, another player given Norm Smith's No.4. He was recruited from Sandringham as a forward, but he had this awkward kicking style and at 187cm was hardly going to split packs, so we turned him into a defender. He played tight at full-back and used his body well like Hibbo does, but we were so bad back then that he copped a few batterings. He played on Michael Roach in 1980 when he kicked nine goals to bring up the ton. But the one that everyone remembers was when he was KO’d in the second quarter by Leigh Matthews at the MCG in 1982 - the second of four Dees the lethal champ sent to La La Land over the years. Once he woke up, Gilesy came back on as a forward and kicked three goals to inspire a comeback, including I think a go-ahead goal from the boundary, but Lethal then stepped up to spoil the story. But Gilesy got some redemption with a super game in a memorable win over the Hawks in 1984 at Princes Park.

 

63 Garry Baker 74-81 127 games, 112 goals
Recruited from Footscray who had Gary Dempsey marking everything, he wasn’t quite as tall (just 193cm) but did a pretty good Garry 2.0 impersonation with similar sticky fingers – he took 17 marks one day against the Cats’ Jeff Fehring, which was probably more than the number of hitouts he ever won given his size. He was good for a goal in the resting ruck role most games as well and had a beard that Maxy would be proud of today. He even won our B&F in 1978 before a knee injury in 1980 curtailed his movement and he wasn’t that quick beforehand, so Barass sent him packing.

64 Mark Jamar 02-15 155 games, 56 goals
I had a lot of trouble deciding where to rank the Russian. I mean before this year he was one of only a handful of Dees to make an All-Australian line up and he did kick five goals against Carlton one day. But you’d be hard-pressed to view him as a great, although he was clearly a handy, humble servant, putting
his body on the line for more than a decade, often down at Casey. Only once in his 14 seasons did he play every game – in 2010 when he had an impressive 643 tap-outs and finished third in the Bluey Truscott and sat on the AA bench as back-up for Aaron Sandilands. And unlike Woey and the Brownlow, he hasn’t copped it for being one of the least qualified AA selections of all time. For us though, as a ruckman, he’s in a battle with Strawbs and Bakes for our fifth best tapman of the past 50 years – such has been the quality we have produced in the rucking area. He started off playing third fiddle to Jeff White and Darren Jolly and finished up as our third wheel behind Gawny and Pencil.

65 Steven O’Dwyer 87-91 84 games, 45 goals
Big Strawb will long be remembered for missing the 1988 GF when suspended but the feisty redhead was also unlucky to miss our breakthrough night premiership in 1987. He’d just made his debut against St Kilda and impressed against Alan Sidebottom but copped a two-week suspension that ruled him out of the night granny. By 1988 he was a huge presence and a John Northey favourite, so much so that he won our B&F that year. His absence against the Hawks proved telling with it forcing some major positional tinkering that proved catastrophic. With Jim Stynes developing rapidly, the club seemed to lose a little faith in Strawbs after 1990 and the umps weren’t fans of his style either - he gave away seven free kicks against Geelong in a 1989 final. But at the time he was very good at winning the hitout, even if his groundwork was a long way short of Gawny or Jimmy.

66 Jared Rivers 03-12 150 games
After an inaugural season spent primarily developing at our then VFL affiliate Sandringham, the Adelaide defender was outstanding in his first full season and with his intercept marking skills on show and he quickly became Rising Star favourite, pipping teammate Aaron Davey in a year that frankly was a bit light on – no Sam Walsh’s on the horizon with Adam Cooney a slowish starter that season. After winning it he lost his way a bit in 2005, but was back taking aerial risks in 2006, helping us to the finals. Injury took its toll for the next two years and I reckon ultimately he just didn’t have the body strength to manage the power forwards. Certainly he frustrated Mark Neeld (but who didn’t) and with T-Mac being developed as a defender, Rivers was sacrificed and sent forward. He even snagged four goals against GWS that year. But having endured the club at its worst, he knew his time was up and headed to Geelong where he played three more years and quite a few finals.

67 Matthew Whelan 00-09 150 games
A Darwin lad who had impressed in the SANFL, Wheels burst on the scene in 2000 where he showed amazing courage to often fly back into approaching packs for intercept marks and his pace made him a weapon at Marvel Stadium of all places. He wasn’t a thumping kick (he was a small after all), but he was clever and disciplined in the Nev Jetta style and his absence through injury during finals campaigns in 00 and 02 proved costly. When he eventually got to play a final in 2004, it was memorable, shirtfronting James Hird. He also inadvertently injured Nathan Brown in a tackle and in 2008 got suspended for striking Brendan Fevola – so the big names didn’t worry him and he kept wearing his No.45 even when low numbers were available for an upgrade.

68 Earl Spalding 87-91 109 games, 63 goals
One of my favourites, the Duke arrived at Melbourne from the west as part of the “give Robbie a taste of the finals” recruiting spree that landed Todd Viney and Warren Dean. He started as a lanky CHB and he always looked a tad unco-ordinated, particularly when kicking for goal. But he could mark it like Greg
Parke and as a result we sent him forward and alongside Lyon, Stynes and eventually Allen Jakovich, we had aerial superiority over most teams. He actually only played with us for five seasons before Swooper felt his errant kicking and apparently, lack of toughness, was too much and shipped him off to Carlton. Four years later he was a key member of their almost invincible 1995 flag side, so he was definitely one that got away.

69 Andy Lovell 88-95 121 games, 146 goals
Dad Greg was a world wood-chopping champion, so he arrived from Glenorchy as a teenager in 1988 with the nickname Chopper. He was a thick-set but classy small forward who also played as a mid and was still attending Melbourne High when he made our 1988 GF side and with Steven Febey was one of two Tassie teenagers in our line up that day. He had plenty of good days, snagging eight against a lame Tigers in 1993, but I reckon his five-goal game against the Roos at the MCG in 1994 was probably his best. Not sure why we sent him to West Coast at the end of 1995, but he was a lot more handy for them than exchangee Craig Turley was for us.

70 James Harmes 14- 122 games
One of those lifeblood of the club type players. He’s been criticised heavily by almost every regular Demonlander for his at times errant disposal, yet it was his pin-point pass to Fritter that got us going in the grand final. He was third in our breakout 2018 B&F and his antics when he stood up to Joel Selwood in the elimination final make every Dee fans must-watch list. He didn’t quite cope with the switch to defence in 2020, but he was back to his best when he returned as a close-checking midfielder against the Swans in 2021.

71 Michael Hibberd 17- 89 games
Good old Hibbo came across to us after the Bombers’ supplements saga and made an immediate impact with a huge game in our unlucky Anzac Eve loss to Richmond. Despite missing the first four weeks with a hammy, he ended up making the All-Australian team as a dashing, tough left-footer. The
best thing about Hibbo is that he uses his body so well. Go back and watch a replay of the first quarter of the granny and you will see just how valuable he is, just ask JJ who came off second best.

72 Jack Grimes 08-16 100 games
As with Trenners, how do you assess our former captain who almost didn’t make the 100-game club. Regarded as a draft steal at pick No.14 in 2007 (aren’t they all), a back-related stress injury delayed his rise and he played in eight losing sides before the club downed West Coast by 20 points. He took 16 marks and had 29 disposals off half-back at the MCG that day along with three Brownlow votes and a star was born. The following year the tide seemed to be turning our way and he became a fan favourite until round 14 when he hobbled off with back stress recurrence. The next year it was a navicular foot stress injury, but despite all that, he was promoted to the captaincy for 2012 under Mark Neeld having played just 32 games. To his credit, he managed 21 games the next year and he was always honest and humble – hard not to be some might say given he ended with a token 100-gamer and retired to the suburban leagues with just 22 wins to his name. I like to remember him for that fist on a Patrick Dangerfield lead during our upset win in Adelaide in 2014. I suspect if he was 5cm taller and at the right
club, he would have been just like his three-time premiership winning brother.

73 Anthony Ingerson 96-01 121 games
Some Demonlanders will tell you that Ingo was our best full-back (period) but having seen Sean Wight in his prime that just isn’t correct. But after being let go by Adelaide, he gave us six good seasons until knee injury. A bit of an ugly left-footer, his main strength was diligent and courageous manning of his
opponents that included the master of the flop Matthew Lloyd, whom he kept relatively quiet in the 2000GF (four goals).

74 Andrew Leoncelli 96-03 146 games
Another slow-burner who tried out at Carlton but it wasn’t until a super season at Old Xavs in 1995 that Melbourne came calling and his AFL debut came soon after his 22 nd birthday. A bit like Trac with the media, the No.36 was a regular by 1998 playing mainly as a high half-forward with occasional stints on
the ball. He was a clever ball user and his 2000 season (fifth in B&F) was impressive although like many mates, he didn’t see much of it in the granny.

75 Peter Rohde 88-95 163 games
Another Carlton discard who found his way to Melbourne and became a lock off half-back during the Swooper Northey period when we were pretty competitive. From memory he had quite a few hamstring issues, but when fit he was a nice long kick. He had a memorable Queen’s Birthday game in 1993 being
sent forward and snagging three in our win against the Filth.

76 Brad Miller 02-10 133 games, 89 goals
Drafted from Mt Gravatt in Qld, he always looked the part, but never really took the game by the scruff of the neck. He stats in 2004 when we won six straight to briefly top the table, were hardly flattering but as a CHF, he made good position and took a big out to allow Neiter more room. Arguably his best game
was against Freo in the second week of the 2006 finals where he took 14 marks. He topped our goalkicking in 2008, but by then we needed him to be Wayne Carey for us to win games.

77 Matthew Febey 87, 90-00 143 games
The draft was only just getting started when the Dees punted on the Tasmanian Febey twins from Devonport. While Steven enjoyed instant success, Matthew had to do it the hard way, even being delisted and re-rookied along the way before getting a gig on the left-side wing in 1990. As with his brother, he was extremely fit and that’s why he was a regular under Balmey and the Reverend until injuries in 2000 brought on his retirement.

78 Daniel Ward 97-07 136 games
Another of the Reverend’s hard workers, he began as a rookie half-back from Fitzroy reserves and ended up having a go in our midfield where he provided a bit of dash and courage, although he probably wasn’t a natural in the give-and-go, in and under caper. Got into strife with gambling late in his career, but he was a reliable No.10 for 10 seasons, even if he sprayed the odd kick.

79 Paul Wheatley 00-09 135 games
He burst on the scene in 2000 when Dustin Fletcher and Ben Graham were the kings of the long ball and wasn’t that far off getting a gig in the granny that year. He often took the kick-ins and anyone who marked a ball around the 50m mark looked to dish it off to him as he could kick it 60m off one step. And if the NAB Cup nine-pointer had made its way into the AFL, then he probably would have played 200 games. But to be honest, he was just a tad slow to be a star and not quite tall enough to be a key defender in those days.

80 Clint Bizzell 02-07 88 games
Kicked 77 goals as a flamboyant forward at the Cats before crossing to the Dees in 2002 and becoming a regular under Daniher. Blessed with a nice leap and looks for TV, he was the first of our breed of intercept defenders, invariably drifting across to make life hard in the air for the opposition’s focal point.
A back injury and broken leg ruined his last two years, but he quickly found his post-football niche as a travel show host.

 

Link to 81-100

 

Great work again, but gee is Watts rated too high? I think every player there is better than him except Grimes who is also too high should be in the 90's. Walsh not in the top 100? Thought he was better than both Trengove and Grimes. Mind you every player who played before '88 I never saw play so I'm just taking your word for it with those players.

[rjay 25,062]

Controversial with Watts....

[Satan 2,879]

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

Controversial with Watts....

His debut was a  financial / pr exercise that failed  in a football sense and set him back years ( and constant rubbishing by collingwood mates for years). We never got full value as no 1 recruit (. Yes we would never picked gawn  had we chosen nic nat. And every draft decision is a sliding door moment)

His off field activities led to a stint in Casey    Drunken Hi jink   Overseas with a cigarette led to an external burn  on rump led to a , mega dose of a particular medicine  , not telling club officials and a fixed stint in Casey ( even if in good form)

 

[Fanatique Demon 2,651]

Thanks for your considerable work, Deespic. Excellent analysis that brings back memories.  
In my view, Jarman was heaps better than O’Dwyer. And I really can’t see Miller as high as 76. But it’s all opinion anyway.  Looking forward to the next instalment.  

[mo64 5,880]

Great work Deespic. No real surprises in the rankings. My only comment is that too much is made of the timing of Jack Watts' debut, and how it ruined his career. Not sure how many weeks it was prior to his debut, but he had an outstanding game for Casey against the Coburg Tigers (aligned with Richmond at the time). He deserved to be selected.

At the end of the day, I just saw Jack Watts as a player with talents who didn't have the desire or natural competitiveness to get the best out of himself. The QB narrative is overplayed.

 

 

[Project13 44]

13 hours ago, Deespicable said:

It’s amazing as bad as we were at times throughout the past five decades, we have always been able to produce high-quality ruckmen. In fact we are the only club with five All-Australian tappers – O’Dwyer, Stynes, White, Jamar and Gawn. 

 

Great stuff. A heap of work going into this.

Agree with the comment above ^^. We were a shambles for so long yet somehow a ruckmen farm. Strange times!

[Traja Dee 108]

This was compelling reason for someone like me, who started following Melbourne in 1976.  Thank you!

Apart from saying thanks, I'm making a comment to ensure that it remains on the front page of Demonland so that others don't miss it, like I nearly did.

While these rankings are always subjective, I can't say that I vehemently disagree with any so far.  I'll be interested in the top 20 as I feel that our best 22 in 2021 was almost our best 22 since 1976.  In other words, any other retired player (ex-1976) would struggle to get a game in 2021 by playing in their true position; for example, I rate Max a better player than Jim Stynes.  My exceptions up front are Robbie Flower (in for Gus Brayshaw), Garry Lyon (at his prime in for BBB), David Neitz (c.f. Tom McDonald) and maybe the 1994 version of David Schwartz.

[mo64 5,880]

2 hours ago, Traja Dee said:

This was compelling reason for someone like me, who started following Melbourne in 1976.  Thank you!

Apart from saying thanks, I'm making a comment to ensure that it remains on the front page of Demonland so that others don't miss it, like I nearly did.

While these rankings are always subjective, I can't say that I vehemently disagree with any so far.  I'll be interested in the top 20 as I feel that our best 22 in 2021 was almost our best 22 since 1976.  In other words, any other retired player (ex-1976) would struggle to get a game in 2021 by playing in their true position; for example, I rate Max a better player than Jim Stynes.  My exceptions up front are Robbie Flower (in for Gus Brayshaw), Garry Lyon (at his prime in for BBB), David Neitz (c.f. Tom McDonald) and maybe the 1994 version of David Schwartz.

Strongly disagree. Only May, Lever, Gawn, Petracca and Oliver would be certainties for our best 22 since 1976. The 8 players from the 2021 Premiership team that were 21 and under, are still unproven in real terms.

Aside from the players you mentioned, surely Jeff Farmer gets in ahead of either Spargo or Pickett. Brett Lovett ahead of either Rivers or Salem. Laurie Fowler or Alan Johnson ahead of Bowey. Alan Jakovich ahead of Fritsch. Greg Wells ahead of Viney. Todd Viney ahead of Harmes. I could go on because Hibberd, Petty, Langdon, ANB, Sparrow and Jackson are not close to making best 22.

The 2021 team is easily the best Melbourne team we've seen, but it's not made up of 22 stars. 

[WERRIDEE 5,502]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Strongly disagree. Only May, Lever, Gawn, Petracca and Oliver would be certainties for our best 22 since 1976. The 8 players from the 2021 Premiership team that were 21 and under, are still unproven in real terms.

Aside from the players you mentioned, surely Jeff Farmer gets in ahead of either Spargo or Pickett. Brett Lovett ahead of either Rivers or Salem. Laurie Fowler or Alan Johnson ahead of Bowey. Alan Jakovich ahead of Fritsch. Greg Wells ahead of Viney. Todd Viney ahead of Harmes. I could go on because Hibberd, Petty, Langdon, ANB, Sparrow and Jackson are not close to making best 22.

The 2021 team is easily the best Melbourne team we've seen, but it's not made up of 22 stars. 

Best 22

B: LEVER, MAY, A.JOHNSON

HB: SALEM, WIGHT, B.LOVETT

C: FLOWER, PETRACCA, TINGAY

HF: LYON, SCHWARZ, YZE

F: FRITSCH, NEITZ, FARMER

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, T.VINEY

IC: STYNES, J.MCDONALD, S.FEBEY, JONES

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

Nice work again @Deespicable.  Been hanging out for this one.

I like the bold move of the Jack Watts inclusion, but he's way too high IMHO.  I'd have him there on tallent, but not the overall package.  Jack's kicking skills were elite.  Both his passing delivery inside forward 50 and shots on goal were pretty much the best we had for most of the period he was at the club.  Problem was most of the time he didn't go hard enough and/or get enough of it to be tbe lynchpin type player the club recruited and built him up to become before he'd really had the chance to establish his role in the team.  I actually do wounder if he'd been recruited with a pick in the 20s without the external expectations thrust upon him, would he have turned into a different player and or been viewed differently.

I always thought Anthony Ingerson was more a CHB than full back, but a bloody good CHB at that in my book.

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

Brett Lovett ahead of either Rivers or Salem

I remember watching Brett Lovett play, but no way was he better than Salem.  Salem has every bit the skill that Lovett had, but has twice the athletic traits compared to B.Lovett.  Salem will go down as one of the all time greats of the MFC, absolute gun of a player.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

I could go on because Hibberd, Petty, Langdon, ANB, Sparrow and Jackson are not close to making best 22.

Lingers is up there.  Guy is an absolute machine.  His GF performance was bloody brilliant.  Might not have quite the same polish as some of the others, but his whole game repeated running efforts are elite.

It's hard to compare Saprrow, Petty and Jackson, because they are just in the infancy of thier careers really.  Jackson in particular could definitely be all time best 22 material by the end of his career.

[Roger Mellie 4,094]

Enjoying the read thanks Deespicable and the trip down memory lane. I agree it's going to be highly subjective and I'd  love to see the list of contenders as I didn't expect to see a lot of the players that are there. It must have been slim pickings over decades. Eg. Brad Miller in the top 100? I probably would rated Ingo higher, relatively speaking, awkward kicking style and all.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

[Satan 2,879]

51 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

Enjoying the read thanks Deespicable and the trip down memory lane. I agree it's going to be highly subjective and I'd  love to see the list of contenders as I didn't expect to see a lot of the players that are there. It must have been slim pickings over decades. Eg. Brad Miller in the top 100? I probably would rated Ingo higher, relatively speaking, awkward kicking style and all.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Slim pickings  . 
what would a hawks equivalent be over 50 years  ?

[58er 6,538]

3 hours ago, Satan said:

Slim pickings  . 
what would a hawks equivalent be over 50 years  ?

Let's compare from 1925 to 1972 then and see how many Hawks??? 

[58er 6,538]

12 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Nice work again @Deespicable.  Been hanging out for this one.

I like the bold move of the Jack Watts inclusion, but he's way too high IMHO.  I'd have him there on tallent, but not the overall package.  Jack's kicking skills were elite.  Both his passing delivery inside forward 50 and shots on goal were pretty much the best we had for most of the period he was at the club.  Problem was most of the time he didn't go hard enough and/or get enough of it to be tbe lynchpin type player the club recruited and built him up to become before he'd really had the chance to establish his role in the team.  I actually do wounder if he'd been recruited with a pick in the 20s without the external expectations thrust upon him, would he have turned into a different player and or been viewed differently.

I always thought Anthony Ingerson was more a CHB than full back, but a bloody good CHB at that in my book.

I remember watching Brett Lovett play, but no way was he better than Salem.  Salem has every bit the skill that Lovett had, but has twice the athletic traits compared to B.Lovett.  Salem will go down as one of the all time greats of the MFC, absolute gun of a player.

Partly Agree Balls about Salo  but he needs at least 2/3 more years at his current level  before he passes Brett Lovett in our rankings I believe. He will especially if he plays in a flag or 2 or 3 more!!! 

[Guest]

Jack (a lot like Dan Connors and Fev albeit only 5 % of the louts they were) might have been an AFL great prior to the digital age when football wasn't a full time pursuit and cameras weren't on you all the time. He could have been a Brent Crosswell figure; the type of bloke who was disinterested in wet, shiffy days out at bogheaps at Footscray or Moorabbin, but could light up a crunch game at the MCG come finals time.

To get to those finals, you had to be ruthless with the time you could commit, but you also worked and could have a beer on the weekend. That might have suited Jack right down to the ground. He would have fit in well with the Party Boys at Carlton and would have been remembered in a much different light.

The debate with Jack will never end as this is genuinely a situation where both parties were to blame for him not being the player he could be. Yes, his early days were handled horrendously. Yes, Neeld broke his confidence and treated him appallingly (I remember that ridiculous article in the Age which publicized the baking Neeld gave Watts when he walked into the club which wouldn't have happened unless Neeld wanted it to). 

However, listening to Crawf's podcast with him last year, Jack seems to be in denial still. While we weren't premiership caliber in 2017 (we were basically a good ordinary side pressing for the bottom half of the 8 with a high ceiling for development), the joint wasn't a flaming clown car ready to careen off the road like it was in 2011-2013. Jack had every chance to become the player he wanted to be. His trip to Byron Bay when we needed him to rehab and come back strong was for mine horribly selfish. That he ran a media facilitated PR campaign to guilt us into keeping him annoyed me even more. And I am befuddled that he seemed to think that he 'chose' Port Adelaide over us in 2018 (at least judging from how he was talking in the aforementioned podcast) when he was given his marching orders after the Byron incident showed he wasn't meshing with what we were trying to achieve.

My sympathy for Jack would go up exponentially if he just acknowledged he arsed up occasionally as well. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Colin B. Flaubert

[The heart beats true 18,144]

16 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Nice work again @Deespicable.  Been hanging out for this one.

I like the bold move of the Jack Watts inclusion, but he's way too high IMHO.  I'd have him there on tallent, but not the overall package.  Jack's kicking skills were elite.  Both his passing delivery inside forward 50 and shots on goal were pretty much the best we had for most of the period he was at the club.  Problem was most of the time he didn't go hard enough and/or get enough of it to be tbe lynchpin type player the club recruited and built him up to become before he'd really had the chance to establish his role in the team.  I actually do wounder if he'd been recruited with a pick in the 20s without the external expectations thrust upon him, would he have turned into a different player and or been viewed differently.

I always thought Anthony Ingerson was more a CHB than full back, but a bloody good CHB at that in my book.

I remember watching Brett Lovett play, but no way was he better than Salem.  Salem has every bit the skill that Lovett had, but has twice the athletic traits compared to B.Lovett.  Salem will go down as one of the all time greats of the MFC, absolute gun of a player.

Brett Lovett was my idol as a kid. He was a pure footballer, and for a long period of time was an absolute star. It’s easy to rank the current guys higher because they won us a flag, but I reckon Salem has to do it for another 3-4 years before he’s remembered as fondly as Lovett.

I hope he does, and I’m sure he will. 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

18 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Best 22

B: LEVER, MAY, A.JOHNSON

HB: SALEM, WIGHT, B.LOVETT

C: FLOWER, PETRACCA, TINGAY

HF: LYON, SCHWARZ, YZE

F: FRITSCH, NEITZ, FARMER

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, T.VINEY

IC: STYNES, J.MCDONALD, S.FEBEY, JONES

A very good team. Maybe I would have swapped  Bruce and Junior on the bench. Not sure Fritsch has earned his place yet though. Wonderful GF performance but he has not quite reached these lofty heights of the others yet.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

12 hours ago, Satan said:

Slim pickings  . 
what would a hawks equivalent be over 50 years  ?

Slim pickings?  Nah, I don't agree with that.  The MFC has had some great individual players over the same period that I recon would have matched the Hawks equivalent on ability, Lyon Vs Dunstall, Schwartz Vs Dermi, Bennett, Pike, Jackovic, Wizzard, Stynes, Wight ... the talent we've had at our disposal at times is almost embarrassing how we have never won a flag until now (actually it's [censored] embarrassing and the cause of much MFCSS).

The key difference was that over that same period the Hawks were able to a) keep most of their stars on the park most of the time and b) have them consistently play as a well disiplined team first unit - that's the key difference Demons 2021 Vs any other year since 1987 in my time watching them.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,870]

9 hours ago, 58er said:

Partly Agree Balls about Salo  but he needs at least 2/3 more years at his current level  before he passes Brett Lovett in our rankings I believe. He will especially if he plays in a flag or 2 or 3 more!!! 

 

4 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Brett Lovett was my idol as a kid. He was a pure footballer, and for a long period of time was an absolute star. It’s easy to rank the current guys higher because they won us a flag, but I reckon Salem has to do it for another 3-4 years before he’s remembered as fondly as Lovett.

I hope he does, and I’m sure he will. 

I agree Brett was a bloody good footballer, I just think Salem is better or at least an equal.  I mean, Brett pulled on the Big V a number of times and that's a pretty decient endorsement.  And yes he was a footballer's footballer but he was also suuupppeeer sloooooww, something which Salem definitely isn't.  I also think Salem is the modern equivalent of a footballers footballer as well.

I was also a huge B.Lovett (and G.Lovett) fan back in the day.  My sister actually went to girl guides with one of Brett's nieces who's parents ran the family plant nursery (where I believe Brett also worked sometimes?) in Box Hill.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[WERRIDEE 5,502]

11 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 

I agree Brett was a bloody good footballer, I just think Salem is better or at least an equal.  I mean, Brett pulled on the Big V a number of times and that's a pretty decient endorsement.  And yes he was a footballer's footballer but he was also suuupppeeer sloooooww, something which Salem definitely isn't.  I also think Salem is the modern equivalent of a footballers footballer as well.

I was also a huge B.Lovett (and G.Lovett) fan back in the day.  My sister actually went to girl guides with one of Brett's nieces who's parents ran the family plant nursery (where I believe Brett also worked sometimes?) in Box Hill.

There both guns. Can't split them.

[dl4e 5,851]

An interesting read. I would have Peter Giles adn Matty wheelan easily in my top 40. Brad Miller in the top 100 is, I will put it politely, odd.

[Wizard of Koz 1,127]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:14 AM, 58er said:

Let's compare from 1925 to 1972 then and see how many Hawks??? 

Or this current decade. 21 Dees and 2 Hawks, same as 2007- 15 but inn reverse