Farewell Luke Jackson

[mo64 5,843]

14 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Great, so how do Freo satisfy us? This has been the missing piece in the media conjecture the whole time. He isn’t going for free. 

Freo needs to free up cap space to fit in Jackson next year. Lobb is still contracted next year on app. $700k. I doubt that we want to take Lobb or his contract.  

If people think we'll get 2 top 10 picks plus Meek as steak knives, they are kidding themselves. We got pick 6 for Hogan and Freo got pick 5 for Cerra. Our best case scenario is 1 top 10 pick + another 2022 late 1st rd or Freo future 1st + steak knives Meek.

[mo64 5,843]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If Jacko goes, Rendell on SEN suggesting we end up with Grundy and a high pick.

Pies to pay say $200K of his $900k for next 5 years.

Lobb to Dogs for pick.

Freo gives picks to Pies, who save $700k a year, plus probably De Goeys' salary, which they use to chase Giants players.

Grundy then does most of ruckwork for us and Max plays more forward, which prolongs his career and gives us another marking target forward.

We use the high pick to draft another key forward.

We can then rookie another ruck.

Maybe we trade Weid to Pies as part of the deal to improve our draft position.

Lots of possibilities.

 

Rendell is an [censored] around draft and trade time. That's an awful deal for Melbourne and the Pies make out like bandits. As if Max as captain would be happy to play 2nd fiddle to Grundy. Plus Max is an unproven forward. Rather than wasting $700 for 5 years on Grundy, how about targeting a young key forward either this year or next, and acquire a developing young ruckman.

Weid is steak knives to any deal. He might improve our draft position in the later rounds like 3rd or 4th.

Edited July 19, 2022 by mo64

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

35 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Great, so how do Freo satisfy us? This has been the missing piece in the media conjecture the whole time. He isn’t going for free. 

Contrast with the talk around Cerra last year, you couldnt say Cerra to Melbourne without hearing the media saying 'not sure how it gets done because of picks required and cap space'. But crickets on LJ... annoying AF

[Redleg 40,773]

7 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Rendell is an [censored] around draft and trade time. That's an awful deal for Melbourne and the Pies make out like bandits.

So if Pies got picks 40 and 50 for Grundy you would say they are bandits?

Not sure why you said that, when the pick(s) they might get weren't even suggested.

[defuture15 897]

So  I guess if Jacko does leave we can't take on a player with a large contract. Are we really looking to upgrade our future picks? Are all these recent contract extensions at Jacko's expense?

[mo64 5,843]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

So if Pies got picks 40 and 50 for Grundy you would say they are bandits?

Not sure why you said that, when the pick(s) they might get weren't even suggested.

Pies clear up cap space and get better chasing GWS talent. Grundy's $700k x 5 years for a player we don't need is a burden regardless of what picks we give up.

[1964_2 2,357]

21 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If Jacko goes, Rendell on SEN suggesting we end up with Grundy and a high pick.

Pies to pay say $200K of his $900k for next 5 years.

Lobb to Dogs for pick.

Freo gives picks to Pies, who save $700k a year, plus probably De Goeys' salary, which they use to chase Giants players.

Grundy then does most of ruckwork for us and Max plays more forward, which prolongs his career and gives us another marking target forward.

We use the high pick to draft another key forward.

We can then rookie another ruck.

Maybe we trade Weid to Pies as part of the deal to improve our draft position.

Lots of possibilities.

 

No thanks 

[Fat Tony 5,216]

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

So if Pies got picks 40 and 50 for Grundy you would say they are bandits?

Not sure why you said that, when the pick(s) they might get weren't even suggested.

It is not the pick though. The issue with Grundy is he is on too much money. And it is hard to see the Pies being willing to pay enough money to facilitate a trade given they are still paying for Treloar.

In the NBA, salary dump trades are pretty common, but they are harder in the AFL because the reward for tanking is less (the draft isn't as good an equalisation tool because we have 18 players) and because the player has to agree to any trade.

I think we would get more value out of going for Goldstein, who is long in the tooth but will cost less salary cap space.

 

[Demon3 2,541]

We want picks, not players.. getting picks secures us a war chest for down the track, while also adding youth from the draft. Sure we might get a fringe ruckman, but we are hell bent on picks, and in particular 2 first rounders for this year (as our first pick is in the 30s) 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Demon3

[ANG13 2,054]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Probably started by Hutchison to keep the ratings up

I would probably say more like keeping them above zero. 

[1964_2 2,357]

3 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

We want picks, not players.. getting picks secures us a war chest for down the track, while also adding youth from the draft. Sure we might get a fringe ruckman, but we are hell bent on picks, and in particular 2 first rounders for this year (as our first pick is in the 30s) 

No we don’t. We want ready made players to have an impact straight away. 

Worked so hard to be in the window:- the time is now. 

[Demon3 2,541]

5 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

No we don’t. We want ready made players to have an impact straight away. 

Worked so hard to be in the window:- the time is now. 

Wrong, we want players, we will get a ruckman, still be in the window and get quality youth. You have to keep adding kids.

[Axis of Bob 11,603]

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

It is not the pick though. The issue with Grundy is he is on too much money. And it is hard to see the Pies being willing to pay enough money to facilitate a trade given they are still paying for Treloar.

 

Yep. Grundy is on a massive deal until the end of 2027, which is still 5 more years after this year. It's the worst contract in the AFL (outside the expansion teams) and is severely limiting what Collingwood can do in terms of building their list. 

As you say, if we were to hypothetically take that on (which is still silly from list management anyway, but still.....) then Collingwood would need to make the contract more reasonable for us by paying significant money, which takes away from the benefit from them doing the deal in the first place. 

A deal more akin to Will Brodie's Freo deal would be more reasonable for a team. In that deal (not including steak knives) Freo received Will Brodie plus an end of first round pick in exchange for a future second round pick (about pick 25 ish). In other words, Gold Coast paid Freo to take Will Brodie's contract. This is probably the first NBA style salary dump that I can recall in the AFL.

[1964_2 2,357]

5 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Wrong, we want players, we will get a ruckman, still be in the window and get quality youth. You have to keep adding kids.

I am sorry but you are wrong.

we will already be up against it to keep all our kids who aren’t getting an opportunity at AFL level.

Ready made players to address our weaknesses is the focus. 

[Jjrogan 1,416]

21 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

We want picks, not players.. getting picks secures us a war chest for down the track, while also adding youth from the draft. Sure we might get a fringe ruckman, but we are hell bent on picks, and in particular 2 first rounders for this year (as our first pick is in the 30s) 

I fully agree. We should want picks.  We will have a premier midfield for the rest of this decade.   I would much rather bank picks/cash and then use that currency on an established kpf into 2024. Our premiership window is open for 5 years with this midfield and backline.   

Get a top 10 goal kicker will set us up for the rest of the decade.  Getting lobb will fill a gap for 2 years. Ho hum.   Play the long game. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Jjrogan

[Demon3 2,541]

5 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

I am sorry but you are wrong.

we will already be up against it to keep all our kids who aren’t getting an opportunity at AFL level.

Ready made players to address our weaknesses is the focus. 

No, im not, but thats ok. If you dont get kids in you end up in a black hole when your window closes. And if we lose kids, then thats the exact reason why you need more.  We dont have a first round pick, we need one, we want 2. We will get a free agent or a traded player, but rest assured, we want picks.

Happy to disagree mate and move on.

[Sydee 4,377]

3 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

No, im not, but thats ok. If you dont get kids in you end up in a black hole when your window closes. And if we lose kids, then thats the exact reason why you need more.  We dont have a first round pick, we need one, we want 2. We will get a free agent or a traded player, but rest assured, we want picks.

Happy to disagree mate and move on.

Geelong says hi 

[Deeko2 808]

8 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

I am sorry but you are wrong.

we will already be up against it to keep all our kids who aren’t getting an opportunity at AFL level.

Ready made players to address our weaknesses is the focus. 

 

14 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Wrong, we want players, we will get a ruckman, still be in the window and get quality youth. You have to keep adding kids.

You're right Demon3 we do need to keep adding kids and we'll do that - with second and third round draft picks.

We wont get the luxury of high first rounders sadly and don't need late first rounders at the moment to pick up potential players who maybe decent in 2 to 3 years.

I'd much rather us getting known quality players whilst we still have Gawn, May, TMc and BBB whilst they're (rightly or wrongly for the last 2) still best 22.  If we can get improvements on the last two and any other players on the list happy days.

Gawn and May are going to be nearly impossible to replace - both wonderful players.  We need to strike with known players right now so we can be premiership threats while these two are still amongst it.

 

[Demon3 2,541]

2 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

 

You're right Demon3 we do need to keep adding kids and we'll do that - with second and third round draft picks.

We wont get the luxury of high first rounders sadly and don't need late first rounders at the moment to pick up potential players who maybe decent in 2 to 3 years.

I'd much rather us getting known quality players whilst we still have Gawn, May, TMc and BBB whilst they're (rightly or wrongly for the last 2) still best 22.  If we can get improvements on the last two and any other players on the list happy days.

Gawn and May are going to be nearly impossible to replace - both wonderful players.  We need to strike with known players right now so we can be premiership threats while these two are still amongst it.

 

No where did i say that we wont get experienced players, im strictly talking about the draft. If you dont get high top end talent in through the draft you play catch up. 

We will get first round picks if Jackson goes.

[Deeko2 808]

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

No where did i say that we wont get experienced players, im strictly talking about the draft. If you dont get high top end talent in through the draft you play catch up. 

We will get first round picks if Jackson goes.

I mightn't have worded it that clearly.  We'll most likely trade for experience players and known quality.

Unless they're very high end (1-5) where a player can immediately make an impact then they will then be traded.

[Demon3 2,541]

7 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Geelong says hi 

Fair call, there are exceptions. But Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Danger, Rohan, Isaac Smith, Touhey, wont be around for ever.

[Nascent 9,054]

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

We want picks, not players.. getting picks secures us a war chest for down the track, while also adding youth from the draft. Sure we might get a fringe ruckman, but we are hell bent on picks, and in particular 2 first rounders for this year (as our first pick is in the 30s) 

 

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

No we don’t. We want ready made players to have an impact straight away. 

Worked so hard to be in the window:- the time is now. 

I'm with @Demon3 here. Most of our salary cap is tied up with our contracted existing list that we're trying to keep together long term. We need to balance that out by adding high quality youth rather than costly ready made players unless they fill a specific need (back-up ruck, key forward etc..). This allows us room to improve contract offers down the track to retain deserving players that start cementing themselves in the 22. Think JvR, Howes, Laurie, Turner etc... Otherwise we will start haemorrhaging best 22 players we want to keep because our salary cap will be constantly buldging and they won't get the remuneration they deserve.

Also for those that haven't clued on, Demon3 has good mail. I'm tipping this isn't a guess on his/her behalf but rather a statement of fact.

Edit: I think we are also planning as best we can to keep our window open for as long as possible. All good to say our window is now, but I would rather keep it open for another 10 years instead of 2.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Nascent

[rpfc 28,220]

17 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Geelong says hi 

Oh, ummm, well… [censored] off?

[Sydee 4,377]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Oh, ummm, well… [censored] off?

slight overreaction to someone pointing to a different approach 

[Demonstone 22,181]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Maybe we trade Weid to Pies

I know that Weid's grandfather was a Collingwood legend, but is there any other reason so many posters assume that they would be keen on trading for Sam? 

Surely any club would chase players based on talent and needs, not lineage.