Welcome to Demonland - Pick 17

[TRIGON 4,783]

2 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

Yeah, I herd that. Watched him try to lay a shepherd. A little ugly.

1. Does he require some 'consent' education?
2. Did you respect their privacy?

Otherwise it's a little crook.

[Elwood 3184 1,298]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:37 PM, DeeSpencer said:

They being JT or the club? The club, no doubt heavily based up JT's recommendation but not in a vacuum - clearly made the decision for Brayshaw, who Paul Roos loved. The pressing need was to beef up the midfield quickly rather than draft a young tall and Lever's ACL probably sealed the decision too. But having seen JT since use pick 3's on Oliver and Jackson I'd like to know if it wasn't for the clubs situation who he would've taken.

The club put on a function for a small group of supporters a few days before the draft. JT and Todd Viney spoke. It was very clear that in their view it was between McCartin, Petracca and Brayshaw followed by daylight and Jake Lever wasn’t in the top ten. I don’t think Lever was even mentioned. Most of us left the evening believing we were going to take McCartin. 

Happy to get views from others who were there.

[The Lobster Effect 886]

4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Giving up a first round pick to get into this year's first round might be quite prescient. Surely there's a chance that next year's draft becomes compromised should Tasmania be granted an AFL licence. I could see all sorts of priority selections being given to Tassie when its licence is awarded which will affect at least one draft. Whether it is next year's or not remains to be seen. 

If Tassie come into the AFL it wouldn't be for at least 5 years...

[BAMF 4,299]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Premiers said:

I think it was Roos who was big on Oliver.  He was still building the mid-field/on-ballers core.

 

7 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Yeah from what i've heard we did seriously consider Parish with our pick, but Roos just loved what he saw from Oliver. and god hasn't that paid off (not that Parish isn't a gun) 

Roos was given a bunch of highlights from Jason Taylor in the lead up to the draft.

Roos watched the Oliver highlights and didn't bother watching the rest. He went back to Jason Taylor and said "He is the one. If there is anyone better than that then pick them"

I've heard that story before, but recently heard it again on a podcast that Real Footy (the age) put out prior to the Grand Final which had an episode focusing on Oliver. 

Worth a listen.

[Lucifers Hero 39,565]

12 hours ago, BAMF said:

 

Roos was given a bunch of highlights from Jason Taylor in the lead up to the draft.

Roos watched the Oliver highlights and didn't bother watching the rest. He went back to Jason Taylor and said "He is the one. If there is anyone better than that then pick them"

I've heard that story before, but recently heard it again on a podcast that Real Footy (the age) put out prior to the Grand Final which had an episode focusing on Oliver. 

Worth a listen.

Here are several articles that talk about Roos and his early viewing of Oliver vision:

olivers-twist-how-the-dees-smoothed-rough-diamond

"But as he kept poring over the vision, Roos was drawn to Oliver’s clean hands, his strength and power at stoppages, his sharp decision making in tight and the 187cm midfielder's physical presence. The redhead was raw, but the veteran coach knew he was watching a natural footballer who would complement the previous year's top draftees Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw nicely".  (April 2017)

from-a-parma-and-chips-to-an-afl-star

"Five months earlier, Melbourne coach Paul Roos strolled out of his office and asked Jason Taylor  if he could take a look at the 2015 draft crop.  Essendon had just defeated Melbourne by nine points at the MCG in James Harmes’ debut. It left Roos’ men with just four wins after 15 rounds. It was time to look ahead to 2016.

By mid-July, Jacob Weitering and Josh Schache had separated themselves at the top of the pile of soon-to-be-drafted teenagers. Callum Mills was not far behind and almost certain to go to Sydney. Behind the trio was a glut of players including Darcy Parish, Jacob Hopper, Sam Weiderman and Charlie Curnow.

"Roos sat back in his AAMI Park office chair and began to flick through various clips of footage. His job was not to recruit, but to offer an unbiased eye...One player stood out above all others...Roos, who had already committed for the 2016 season, walked back out and ask a senior recruiter where Oliver would go in the draft. The response was lukewarm. He was expected to be taken in the late teens or early 20s at best. Perhaps he could even slip to the 40s or 50s. (June 2018).

iirc it was later in 2015 that a Demon recruiting team (which I think included Goodwin) went to interview him and meet his family etc.  They laid down some goals for Oliver to reach to be drafted by us.  He reached them.

And so the Footy Legend of Clayton Oliver was born.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Premiers

[deelusions from afar 1,776]

I might be wrong, but these versions on Oliver are a bit different from what I'd heard previously.  I've heard these comments from Roos and seen the quotes... but at the same time feel like Roos is re-writing a bit of history to give himself slightly more credit.

My understanding was that Jason Taylor was VERY keen on Oliver and had been tracking him closely.  He gave his tapes of the best options to look at and Roos watched Oliver's first and said he didn't need to see any others.

Roos is making it sound like he picked Oliver out of nowhere - when what I'd heard previously was Oliver was very much in the frame prior to Roos gave his comments.

[Lucifers Hero 39,565]

39 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

I might be wrong, but these versions on Oliver are a bit different from what I'd heard previously.  I've heard these comments from Roos and seen the quotes... but at the same time feel like Roos is re-writing a bit of history to give himself slightly more credit.

My understanding was that Jason Taylor was VERY keen on Oliver and had been tracking him closely.  He gave his tapes of the best options to look at and Roos watched Oliver's first and said he didn't need to see any others.

Roos is making it sound like he picked Oliver out of nowhere - when what I'd heard previously was Oliver was very much in the frame prior to Roos gave his comments.

Did Roos' see Oliver's tapes first?  My impression was he poured over lots.  Not sure that he actually stopped looking at others as at the time (July 2015) we didn't have pick 3 and there were others considered for our first 'natural' pick that year.  Oliver wasn't thought to go that high.   JT and others thought he could go anywhere from the high teens to the 50's!!   I think our first 'natural' pick was #9 so Oliver wasn't in the reckoning for it in July 2015.  

Look at the dates of the articles I quoted one of which was April 2017,   when Oliver had played only a dozen games.  At that time there was no history for Roos to rewrite.  What he has said since and reported since supports comments back then.

Recruiters don't work in a vacuum or in isolation.  They build a list that maximises a coach's game plan.  From the first Roos' was committed to building an elite mid-field and have 10-12 on-ballers.  Methinks you are short selling Roos' role in Oliver's recruitment and other premiership players recruited while Roos was coach.  

TBH, I have been really impressed that the likes of Roos, Jackson, Macca, Bartlett and many others that were involved in the rebuild of our club and our team, haven't tried to step into the limelight of a premiership.  They have humbly stayed in the background.

Anyway, we are diverting from pick #17.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Premiers

[deelusions from afar 1,776]

2 hours ago, Premiers said:

Did Roos' see Oliver's tapes first?  My impression was he poured over lots.  Not sure that he actually stopped looking at others as at the time (July 2015) we didn't have pick 3 and there were others considered for our first 'natural' pick that year.  Oliver wasn't thought to go that high.   JT and others thought he could go anywhere from the high teens to the 50's!!   I think our first 'natural' pick was #9 so Oliver wasn't in the reckoning for it in July 2015.  

Look at the dates of the articles I quoted one of which was April 2017,   when Oliver had played only a dozen games.  At that time there was no history for Roos to rewrite.  What he has said since and reported since supports comments back then.

Recruiters don't work in a vacuum or in isolation.  They build a list that maximises a coach's game plan.  From the first Roos' was committed to building an elite mid-field and have 10-12 on-ballers.  Methinks you are short selling Roos' role in Oliver's recruitment and other premiership players recruited while Roos was coach.  

TBH, I have been really impressed that the likes of Roos, Jackson, Macca, Bartlett and many others that were involved in the rebuild of our club and our team, haven't tried to step into the limelight of a premiership.  They have humbly stayed in the background.

Anyway, we are diverting from pick #17.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you - because how can anyone possibly know other than Roos / Taylor etc.

Not meaning to short sell Roos - he's obviously played a central role to getting our club to where it is now.  In my view it was he and Jackson that turned our club around when it was at its darkest days.  At the same time he does have a bit of an ego and (I think) does have a history of spinning things to ensure he gets maximum credit.  Oh course he's not alone in doing that - but I think he is a master at it.

Why am I making a point of this?  Because I think Roos talking about the influence he had on choosing Oliver undersells Jason Taylor and the whole scouting / list management team.  Roosy no doubt has an eye for it - but for Taylor and co, it is their full time job.  

In terms of the articles from 2017 - I think anyone who watched Oliver in his first game get numerous centre clearances in the last quarter to get us over the line against GWS at the G would have known he was a special talent.  Those at the club would have noticed the same thing much earlier.

But you are right - I or we have taken this thread on a tangent.  Whether it was Roos or Taylor or whoever - I don't really care - I'm just bloody glad we got Oliver when we did.  And let's hope JT and co can turn pick 17 into gold in similar fashion.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

16 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you - because how can anyone possibly know other than Roos / Taylor etc.

Not meaning to short sell Roos - he's obviously played a central role to getting our club to where it is now.  In my view it was he and Jackson that turned our club around when it was at its darkest days.  At the same time he does have a bit of an ego and (I think) does have a history of spinning things to ensure he gets maximum credit.  Oh course he's not alone in doing that - but I think he is a master at it.

Why am I making a point of this?  Because I think Roos talking about the influence he had on choosing Oliver undersells Jason Taylor and the whole scouting / list management team.  Roosy no doubt has an eye for it - but for Taylor and co, it is their full time job.  

In terms of the articles from 2017 - I think anyone who watched Oliver in his first game get numerous centre clearances in the last quarter to get us over the line against GWS at the G would have known he was a special talent.  Those at the club would have noticed the same thing much earlier.

But you are right - I or we have taken this thread on a tangent.  Whether it was Roos or Taylor or whoever - I don't really care - I'm just bloody glad we got Oliver when we did.  And let's hope JT and co can turn pick 17 into gold in similar fashion.

Oliver had the best highlights reel i have seen...from ANY player in the drafts since we started seeing video footage of their TAC years.   Would imagine Roos/Taylor and anyone else with half a brain would have been all over him. Quickest hands in the AFL.

Wonder what we are doing with pick 17...it sounds like we tried to shop it around to move further up the order.   Has been a really quiet trade period!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

My first recollections of Oliver, which would have been via pictures posteds on Demonland, were (1) that he was so fair that he looked like he'd turn into a lobster during pre-season training and (2) he looked like he had eaten his own body weight of said lobsters before he trimmed down.

[Deetention 86]

Hoping Josh Goater is available at our Pick 17. But I feel we need to trade up to at least GWS Pick 13 to get him on draft night. Hoping Essendon doesn’t swoop! 
 

Pick 17, 37 to GWS for Pick 13, 71

 

[Demonstone 22,308]

7 hours ago, Deetention said:

Hoping Josh Goater is available at our Pick 17.

He's just a kid, but I hear that Port Adelaide are keen.  They see him as a natural partner for Butters.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,606]

Interested to hear people's thoughts on Toby Conway as a potential option for pick 17?

Feel like it would be perfect timing to bring him in and develop for 3-4 years under Gawn before taking the number 1 ruck role once he retires.

Watching highlights he seems pretty mobile for a 204cm player.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

8 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

Interested to hear people's thoughts on Toby Conway as a potential option for pick 17?

Feel like it would be perfect timing to bring him in and develop for 3-4 years under Gawn before taking the number 1 ruck role once he retires.

Watching highlights he seems pretty mobile for a 204cm player.

This implies you think Jackson won't be the number 1 ruckman. What role do you see Jackson playing after Gawn retires? 

[spirit of norm smith 16,271]

31 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

Interested to hear people's thoughts on Toby Conway as a potential option for pick 17?

Feel like it would be perfect timing to bring him in and develop for 3-4 years under Gawn before taking the number 1 ruck role once he retires.

Watching highlights he seems pretty mobile for a 204cm player.

No. Jackson is the successor to Max Gawn. 
 

Pick 17 is best available and there is plenty ahead of Conway.  It’s a good chance to get some further midfield pace into the squad through Josh Sinn, Campbell  Chesser, Josh Goater, Mitch Owens, Josh Rochele or Ned Long. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,606]

41 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This implies you think Jackson won't be the number 1 ruckman. What role do you see Jackson playing after Gawn retires? 

I see Jackson as the greatest utility in the competition.

If we need a spark in the ruck he goes there. If we need an outlet kick on the wing he goes there. If we need a pack marking forward he goes there.

I just think he's too valuable around the ground to be number 1 ruck. Tbh he could become one of the best key forwards if we really wanted him to stay there, which I don't think we will.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

5 hours ago, Demonstone said:

He's just a kid, but I hear that Port Adelaide are keen.  They see him as a natural partner for Butters.

I herd he was going to Adelaide to play with Billy Frampton. 

[Jibroni 4,987]

Another outside mid with skills would be ideal. 

[deelusions from afar 1,776]

2 hours ago, Action Jackson said:

I see Jackson as the greatest utility in the competition.

If we need a spark in the ruck he goes there. If we need an outlet kick on the wing he goes there. If we need a pack marking forward he goes there.

I just think he's too valuable around the ground to be number 1 ruck. Tbh he could become one of the best key forwards if we really wanted him to stay there, which I don't think we will.

Would you try him as a ruck rover in the centre square.  It might sound crazy / be a terrible idea... but that was the talk when he was drafted.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,606]

1 hour ago, deelusions from afar said:

Would you try him as a ruck rover in the centre square.  It might sound crazy / be a terrible idea... but that was the talk when he was drafted.

I think he could potentially. Honestly, I think he could play anywhere but I think he is the best ruck/forward in the game.

The other player's highlights I saw and who may slide is Josh Sinn. He looks like a very solid player and if he slides to our pick I think we may take him.

[adonski 11,784]

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

No. Jackson is the successor to Max Gawn. 
 

Pick 17 is best available and there is plenty ahead of Conway.  It’s a good chance to get some further midfield pace into the squad through Josh Sinn, Campbell  Chesser, Josh Goater, Mitch Owens, Josh Rochele or Ned Long. 

Any chance Hobbs slides? 

[spirit of norm smith 16,271]

Hobbs is a gun.  Clearly top 5 pick. Only slides to Tigers at pick 7 at absolutely worst case imv. 

[adonski 11,784]

Just now, spirit of norm smith said:

Hobbs is a gun.  Clearly top 5 pick. Only slides to Tigers at pick 7 at absolutely worst case imv. 

Yeah seems to be the consensus. I only ask cause he seems like the prototype Jason Taylor/Goodwin pick.

[spirit of norm smith 16,271]

17 minutes ago, Action Jackson said:

The other player's highlights I saw and who may slide is Josh Sinn. He looks like a very solid player and if he slides to our pick I think we may take him.

Yes he’s very impressive.  His injury may see others cool on drafting him but he’s clearly top 10 draft player so he’d be a deadset steal. Unlikely but amazing if it happens. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by spirit of norm smith
H

[drdrake 3,160]

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

No. Jackson is the successor to Max Gawn. 
 

Pick 17 is best available and there is plenty ahead of Conway.  It’s a good chance to get some further midfield pace into the squad through Josh Sinn, Campbell  Chesser, Josh Goater, Mitch Owens, Josh Rochele or Ned Long. 

It really depends on what the clubs position is, do we take a tall be it a ruck or KPF knowing that we can allow them to develop at Casey for the next 3+ years.  I think we need to add that young developing tall that we can spend time to get them right.  One thing the club might not do is draft an interstate player with an early pick, our list is young if you aren't getting a game the go home factor becomes massive.