15 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i notice the nrl-w play at the same time as the men. they do have less teams and a shorter season though ... just saying

If they can have a full length season, then that would be a good thing.  Bear in mind also, NRLW started after AFLW, we didn't have all 18 teams in until last year.

9 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i notice the nrl-w play at the same time as the men. they do have less teams and a shorter season though ... just saying

I think the AFLW season needs to start mid-year, ideally during the AFL bye rounds, then run for 17 weeks + finals, such that we get to the grand final by end of October.

The benefits would include:

• for at least part of the season you run alongside the VFLW comp, so players outside the 21 can play a game each week.
• you make the most of quiet periods in the AFL season around the bye weeks and post-GF to focus on AFLW.
• as much as the AFL want otherwise, you don't have 12 months of constant football and there is clear downtime for fans. Clearly supporter fatigue is having an impact on crowd numbers.
• in some markets double headers are an option, particularly where AFL games are scheduled for 1pm.

20 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

You’re right. And on that… 2,700 is so disappointing. We were disheartened to see so few fans turned up when we had guessed there’d be close to double that. We outnumbered North fans but even if there was 2,500 of us, that’s still a sad turnout. I don’t understand why people aren’t attending. 

The club needs to figure out why right now. It’s absolutely appalling for this team to not have the Demon faithful there. And I won’t listen to anymore excuses about ‘Cwasey is swo fwar awway’ - if you can’t make it to Princes Park for a short Saturday night. 

Forget the slightly down crowds for our underperforming and boring men’s team - this is is an absolute disgrace.

But maybe it’s the culture of the Dees fans; we don’t want to watch it? We don’t even let topics on the main board about the women’s team…

Maybe we just don’t give a [censored]?

35 minutes ago, brendan said:

I think they made a mistake changing when the season starts should have left it as it was as everyone is itching for footy at the start of the year, not so much now 

I’d like to think people regard the W as more than just a scratch for that itch. But it’s the AFL who have made it this way. Two seasons in one year is ridiculous, especially for the players who have day jobs, ie. the majority of them. I don’t think the W will get the respect they so deserve until the AFL shows the respect. Not holding my breath. 🙄

11 minutes ago, rpfc said:

The club needs to figure out why right now. It’s absolutely appalling for this team to not have the Demon faithful there. And I won’t listen to anymore excuses about ‘Cwasey is swo fwar awway’ - if you can’t make it to Princes Park for a short Saturday night. 

Forget the slightly down crowds for our underperforming and boring men’s team - this is is an absolute disgrace.

But maybe it’s the culture of the Dees fans; we don’t want to watch it? We don’t even let topics on the main board about the women’s team…

Maybe we just don’t give a [censored]?

I feel exactly the same way, and I ask the very same questions. It’s baffling. Membership is only $60pa and that’s entry to every game (incl. interstate), or single tickets are $10. Sure, there’s times we play in places like Frankston and of course Casey Fields, and while that’s not convenient for many, the quality of footy on display is well worth the effort to get there.

I get it that many found it unwatchable in the early seasons, but the skill level across the board has risen exponentially. This is some great footy we’re seeing now. In particular, our very own team who are red-hot.

We love to boast about our 70,000 members yet only a couple of thousand of us turned up at Ikon on a clement Saturday night. Shameful.

And there’s the whole GameDay thing too. Our home matches are so kid-friendly… bouncy castles, face-painting, table-tennis, and heaps of freebies… posters, flags, badges (the kids actually make their own badges - so much fun even for big kids like me 🤭). And if anyone wants their kids to be part of the Guard of Honour, hit up the DA or even just let me know and it’s done. And they get to keep the flag they’re waving.

The player engagement aspect is unbelievable. The girls spend so long at the boundary post match and they actually really love doing it. 

*Huge sigh* Anyways, I’m probs either preaching to the converted or flogging a dead horse. Or both.

PS I’m not above begging. 😁

24 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I feel exactly the same way, and I ask the very same questions. It’s baffling. Membership is only $60pa and that’s entry to every game (incl. interstate), or single tickets are $10. Sure, there’s times we play in places like Frankston and of course Casey Fields, and while that’s not convenient for many, the quality of footy on display is well worth the effort to get there.

I get it that many found it unwatchable in the early seasons, but the skill level across the board has risen exponentially. This is some great footy we’re seeing now. In particular, our very own team who are red-hot.

We love to boast about our 70,000 members yet only a couple of thousand of us turned up at Ikon on a clement Saturday night. Shameful.

And there’s the whole GameDay thing too. Our home matches are so kid-friendly… bouncy castles, face-painting, table-tennis, and heaps of freebies… posters, flags, badges (the kids actually make their own badges - so much fun even for big kids like me 🤭). And if anyone wants their kids to be part of the Guard of Honour, hit up the DA or even just let me know and it’s done. And they get to keep the flag they’re waving.

The player engagement aspect is unbelievable. The girls spend so long at the boundary post match and they actually really love doing it. 

*Huge sigh* Anyways, I’m probs either preaching to the converted or flogging a dead horse. Or both.

PS I’m not above begging. 😁

Begging doesn’t become you WCW, and would certainly not be believable. I think you are more of a stick lady myself. 

38 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Begging doesn’t become you WCW, and would certainly not be believable. I think you are more of a stick lady myself. 

What’s a stick lady? Is it like I’m someone who would beat someone else with a stick?

10 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

What’s a stick lady? Is it like I’m someone who would beat someone else with a stick?

Surely a stick with a pom pom... a flogger!  So you can give people a good flogging 😂

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

What’s a stick lady? Is it like I’m someone who would beat someone else with a stick?

WCW, you were looking for ways to convince people to attend the AFLW. You suggested the begging approach. I offered that I thought the carrot and the stick approach would be more your style. Now obviously you cannot physically go beating DL's on the head with a stick, but you have been known to occasionally deliver a decent verbal beating on here when appropriate, and equally, a number of carrot offerings as well. Use what you do best - and that definitely aint begging. 

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Neil Crompton

24 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

WCW, you were looking for ways to convince people to attend the AFLW. You suggested the begging approach. I offered that I thought the carrot and the stick approach would be more your style. Now obviously you cannot physically go beating DL's on the head with a stick, but you have been known to occasionally deliver a decent verbal beating on here when appropriate, and equally, a number of carrot offerings as well. Use what you do best - and that definitely aint begging. 

But beating DLs on the head with a stick sounds so much more fun! 

On 24/10/2023 at 16:09, WalkingCivilWar said:

Totally agree with this. Most of the girls have day jobs, not because they want to but because they have to. If they didn’t have to work a day job there’d be so much more time to devote to all things footy, just as the boys do now. 

Firstly, all 18 clubs have begged the AFL to extend the W season to at least 17 rounds. No club wants a pitiful 10-round H&A season. But that’s a side point.

My main point is that the W play 10 rounds which is 43% of the 23 rounds played by the M. But they certainly aren’t getting paid 43% of what the M are paid.

Even if the $250,000 was split amongst the W players only, they still wouldn’t be anywhere near the rate of pay of the M. 

That only play mostly about 17/20 mins per quarter so equal pay is not in the agenda yet. 

Wait  till the the games are longer snd17 rounds till pripe

 

6 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I feel exactly the same way, and I ask the very same questions. It’s baffling. Membership is only $60pa and that’s entry to every game (incl. interstate), or single tickets are $10. Sure, there’s times we play in places like Frankston and of course Casey Fields, and while that’s not convenient for many, the quality of footy on display is well worth the effort to get there.

I get it that many found it unwatchable in the early seasons, but the skill level across the board has risen exponentially. This is some great footy we’re seeing now. In particular, our very own team who are red-hot.

We love to boast about our 70,000 members yet only a couple of thousand of us turned up at Ikon on a clement Saturday night. Shameful.

And there’s the whole GameDay thing too. Our home matches are so kid-friendly… bouncy castles, face-painting, table-tennis, and heaps of freebies… posters, flags, badges (the kids actually make their own badges - so much fun even for big kids like me 🤭). And if anyone wants their kids to be part of the Guard of Honour, hit up the DA or even just let me know and it’s done. And they get to keep the flag they’re waving.

The player engagement aspect is unbelievable. The girls spend so long at the boundary post match and they actually really love doing it. 

*Huge sigh* Anyways, I’m probs either preaching to the converted or flogging a dead horse. Or both.

PS I’m not above begging. 😁

I’ll be out at Casey on Saturday to cheer on the girls WCW. Love watching the women, and ours are the best in the competition in terms of ball movement. Not looking forward to the drive to Casey though, and understand why others wouldn’t want to go. It is a wasteland that is too far away. I will spend more time driving there and back than watching the match. 

1 hour ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I’ll be out at Casey on Saturday to cheer on the girls WCW. Love watching the women, and ours are the best in the competition in terms of ball movement. Not looking forward to the drive to Casey though, and understand why others wouldn’t want to go. It is a wasteland that is too far away. I will spend more time driving there and back than watching the match. 

Glad you can make it on Saturday.  👍🏽
I reckon the only people who like games being played at Casey are those who live in the area. It’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s not near the train station, you have to get a bus from the station to the ground and they don’t run often. The girls would much rather play at Ikon, and I’d say most supporters would agree. 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Glad you can make it on Saturday.  👍🏽
I reckon the only people who like games being played at Casey are those who live in the area. It’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s not near the train station, you have to get a bus from the station to the ground and they don’t run often. The girls would much rather play at Ikon, and I’d say most supporters would agree. 

Don’t know about that last line; rain, hail, shine, inner city location, whatever - Dees supporters are not showing up.

Haven’t met an excuse we haven’t loved us Dees fans.

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

Don’t know about that last line; rain, hail, shine, inner city location, whatever - Dees supporters are not showing up.

Haven’t met an excuse we haven’t loved us Dees fans.

Clearly we need to be creative with a supporters bus/es leaving MCG or Nearby for Casey. Give it a go and see the response. 

Having said that WCW most fans going to Casey would drive there. That’s obvious from our numbers. Another 500 went to the Adelaide match because of its prestige and rivalry. Very few would depend upon transport even locals.  That’s where a bus/es as a trial from the Club would be interesting. 
 

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

Don’t know about that last line; rain, hail, shine, inner city location, whatever - Dees supporters are not showing up.

Haven’t met an excuse we haven’t loved us Dees fans.

Pies don’t get more than 2/3,000 at Vic Park and 2,700 Tigers vs Dons attended the Dreamtime game last round.

We are not any different to most Clubs ( although we have a very watchable and high class team) for fans. 

It is a AFLW problem and KPI’s for games development are not being met nor are TV audiences. Until the AFL ramp up it’s considerable might and settle on a program of 17 rounds it will be considered as a minor diversion to the men’s no matter  how good the standard.

I have said that AFLW was a defining cultural change and we have seen how bad we are at that. 

what was a grab for greater relevance by the AFL to attract a greater share of the market (females)  became a bit of a tsunami with free entry and family friendly additives. The standard with female bodies adapting to a sport designed for heavier stronger male bodies has been fantastic and as it has become more physical, mothers and women seem to have cooled in their support.

the sport does need to attract the cohorts female and families to grow their numbers and it needs females to engage with the game at the same vicarious level that AFL has achieved with the male game. Women need to talk of the women players around the water coolers and bbqs not the men players, steer the conversations about the game to women involvement, etc. In short a cultural change that needs support by women. Men have adopted the AFLW particularly fathers with daughters, taking their families to the games but in social contacts probably talk more of the males featured in the mainstream media.

It is a changing culture and it is happening  the AFL need to wary of the impact that Sam Kerr is having on its targetted market.

A couple of telling things, though:

In Round 1 our game against Collingwood was 8412, the highest crowd of any event held at IKON in 2023, as well as the second largest AFLW crowd this season.  Conversely, the Round 6 match between Carlton and Collingwood, two clubs with far higher memberships than Melbourne, attracted just 3111, and they didn't have AFL finals to compete with.  I know the crowd of 2704 last week is disappointing, but let's not forget it was the second highest crowd of the round.  I don't think the problem of low attendances is exclusive to Melbourne.

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Katrina Dee Fan

35 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

A couple of telling things, though:

In Round 1 our game against Collingwood was 8412, the highest crowd of any event held at IKON in 2023, as well as the second largest AFLW crowd this season.  Conversely, the Round 6 match between Carlton and Collingwood, two clubs with far higher memberships than Melbourne, attracted just 3111, and they didn't have AFL finals to compete with.  I know the crowd of 2704 last week is disappointing, but let's not forget it was the second highest crowd of the round.  I don't think the problem of low attendances is exclusive to Melbourne.

I would have thought that a Saturday afternoon game would have been perfect to be held at Punt Rd Oval or Princes Park. I know we have this silly arrangement with Casey, which gains us little local support in the region, but it's time we started making our women's games accessible. I did not attend the night fixture at Ikon, as I find night games annoying. People have other things to do on a saturday night, and it eliminates many families. Saturday arvo is ideal, but not 45kms FROM the CBD 

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Kick_It_To_Pickett

1 hour ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I would have thought that a Saturday afternoon game would have been perfect to be held at Punt Rd Oval

Agree with the sentiment but Punt Road is the pits as a spectator. The space between the oval and the external fence is barely five metres in most parts of the ground. Coburg is a lovely ground for around 6k as is Port Melbourne. (Suspect they are given over to cricket at this time of year)

8 hours ago, 58er said:

Clearly we need to be creative with a supporters bus/es leaving MCG or Nearby for Casey. Give it a go and see the response. 

Having said that WCW most fans going to Casey would drive there. That’s obvious from our numbers. Another 500 went to the Adelaide match because of its prestige and rivalry. Very few would depend upon transport even locals.  That’s where a bus/es as a trial from the Club would be interesting. 
 

That’s something they absolutely should do! Not sure if they still do it but they used to when the men play at Mordor (ie. every single bloody year). Special buses that carried passengers from the MCG and back again.

 I’m sadly anticipating a small crowd tomorrow. Vs Freo at Casey and apparently there’s replacement buses on several lines tomorrow, including the Cranbourne line. 

13 hours ago, rpfc said:

Don’t know about that last line; rain, hail, shine, inner city location, whatever - Dees supporters are not showing up.

Haven’t met an excuse we haven’t loved us Dees fans.

Yeah, I guess I was referring to us supporters who do attend. But I’m sure we’d attract bigger crowds should all our home games be played at Princes Park. 

The promotion, respect and money being up into the W by the AFL is disgraceful. You have to go out of your way to know a game is on so only rusted on fans are attending

There are still a large amount of men in high places in the AFL that couldn't give AF about it

4 hours ago, dpositive said:

I have said that AFLW was a defining cultural change and we have seen how bad we are at that. 

what was a grab for greater relevance by the AFL to attract a greater share of the market (females)  became a bit of a tsunami with free entry and family friendly additives. The standard with female bodies adapting to a sport designed for heavier stronger male bodies has been fantastic and as it has become more physical, mothers and women seem to have cooled in their support.

the sport does need to attract the cohorts female and families to grow their numbers and it needs females to engage with the game at the same vicarious level that AFL has achieved with the male game. Women need to talk of the women players around the water coolers and bbqs not the men players, steer the conversations about the game to women involvement, etc. In short a cultural change that needs support by women. IMen have adopted the AFLW particularly fathers with daughters, taking their families to the games but in social contacts probably talk more of the males featured in the mainstream media.

It is a changing culture and it is happening  the AFL need to wary of the impact that Sam Kerr is having on its targetted market.

This is a confusing and vaguely sexist post.

I don't believe the AFL introduced AFLW to specifically grow female and family supporter numbers, they introduced it because there was a readiness in the game and to grow the entire support base.  AFL has always been well supported by women, men and families.

I can't agree with your assertion that  "Women need to talk of the women players around the water coolers and bbqs not the men players, steer the conversations about the game to women involvement, etc. In short a cultural change that needs support by women."

The game will be talked about by everyone and it's not women's obligation to focus entirely on AFLW. They can freely talk about both men's and women's football.

In my family we talk about the exploits of Petracca, Hanks, Kossie, Hore, Gawn and Bannan. It helps that we've got great teams in both competitions.

4 hours ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

A couple of telling things, though:

In Round 1 our game against Collingwood was 8412, the highest crowd of any event held at IKON in 2023, as well as the second largest AFLW crowd this season.  Conversely, the Round 6 match between Carlton and Collingwood, two clubs with far higher memberships than Melbourne, attracted just 3111, and they didn't have AFL finals to compete with.  I know the crowd of 2704 last week is disappointing, but let's not forget it was the second highest crowd of the round.  I don't think the problem of low attendances is exclusive to Melbourne.

Great point. And we're third in the league for average home game attendance, same as last year. The actual figure for attendance average per game has decreased by about 1,000 compared to last season, but those numbers last year were bolstered by a 17,000 attendance for the double header at the 'G. So I'd consider our crowd numbers as a supporter base (within the context of the league) to be quite solid this year.

But I get your perspective too, @WalkingCivilWar Dees AFLW fans are prominent in the fan space and striving really hard to push things along. As a competition leader, we want more. In memberships, we were 12th last year I think, so we definitely want to do better there.

17 minutes ago, old55 said:

I don't believe the AFL introduced AFLW to specifically grow female and family supporter numbers, they introduced it because there was a readiness in the game and to grow the entire support base.  AFL has always been well supported by women, men and families.

Agree completely. Women don't have an obligation to support women's footy, at least not to any greater extent than anyone else does. In fact, I'd say women in general have done a fair bit in that regard already, in battling for over a century for the right just to play.

A big part of it from an AFL perspective would (or should) be to gain ground in the most rapidly growing battle in the code wars, which is women's sports. And on that, they miss opportunities time and time again.

We've seen how cricket (T20 World Cup at the MCG in 2020) and soccer (World cup this year) have put on big marketing campaigns to drive attendance and break records, which has a significant flow-on effect. The AFLW GF might be in Melbourne for the first time since 2018 this year. Great opportunity for a similar campaign to break the AFLW attendance record, right? But no, the capacity for a Vic-based GF will be capped out at 12,000 at Princes Park. So...