On 30/07/2021 at 03:56, picket fence said:

As much as I think Yze and Choco are doing a great job, so be it if it occurs! Who would NOT have Clarko?? I'll tell you what embarrasing loses to bottom sides wouldnt happen on his watch!

Mate, they lost to the Roos, Blues, Suns and Crows this year.

 

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:04, BDA said:

And its not working out too well. Appointing the caretaker full-time is fraught with danger.

Yeah, but that wasn't your point. You said no assistants from poor sides would get senior gigs.

We just don't agree on this. I think the AFL industry is far smarter and more involved than that and it becomes clear in AFL circles who is highly rated at their job despite the external performance of the team.

 

  On 30/07/2021 at 02:50, A F said:

Alastair Clarkson's Curse? ? One can only hope.

It surely is  Kennett curse like the Geelong /Hawks on was a decade ago. 

  On 30/07/2021 at 01:31, Dr. Gonzo said:

The Clarko Curse has a nice ring to it 

Let's win the flag this year and hand the baton over to them

Q. What does Jeff Kennett and Dr. Don Duffy have in common?

A. They presided over Boards that sacked the greatest coach of each respective era.

Both a triumph of ego over sound management.

Hoping Clarkson got his full entitlements and left no $$'s on the table. Jeff can get a few more pokies to make up the shortfall.  After all, that club propsers more than any by a mile on the backs of problem gamblers.

Well Hawthorn have well and truly stuffed this up epically. What a complete PR nightmare. 

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:04, Lord Nev said:

Mate, they lost to the Roos, Blues, Suns and Crows this year.

 

Sam Micthell - welcome to the fine tradition of recently retired star players/Favourite sons turning to coaching on little experience -  ultimately failing.

The Voss/Hird/Buckley/Blight(first time)/F.Bourke club.

Given the proud Hawks history, and foundations laid by John Kennedy, then Parkin and Jeans, I would have thought this scenario would have occurred anywhere else, but not the Hawks.

It takes real genius to stuff up than pattern - kudos Jeff.

My  understanding is that contract ‘pay-outs’ are included in the soft cap.  If this is the case, how on earth can Hawthorn ‘afford’ to pay out Clarko for next year (big dollars presumably) while paying Mitchell as coach, and the rest of the support team.  
I guess my understanding is incorrect.

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:38, Deeoldfart said:

My  understanding is that contract ‘pay-outs’ are included in the soft cap.  If this is the case, how on earth can Hawthorn ‘afford’ to pay out Clarko for next year (big dollars presumably) while paying Mitchell as coach, and the rest of the support team.  
I guess my understanding is incorrect.

Your mistake is expecting honesty! 

Edited July 30, 20213 yr by old dee

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:30, Demon17 said:

Sam Micthell - welcome to the fine tradition of recently retired star players/Favourite sons turning to coaching on little experience -  ultimately failing.

The Voss/Hird/Buckley/Blight(first time)/F.Bourke club.

Given the proud Hawks history, and foundations laid by John Kennedy, then Parkin and Jeans, I would have thought this scenario would have occurred anywhere else, but not the Hawks.

It takes real genius to stuff up than pattern - kudos Jeff.

I have no skin in this game, but I would not be surprised in the least if Mitchell held the club over a barrel on this.

He's always been supremely sure of himself 

Glad to see Hawthorn embrace The Curse of Alistair Clarkson, but less glad to know that he will go to Carlton or Collingwood.

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:04, Lord Nev said:

Mate, they lost to the Roos, Blues, Suns and Crows this year.

 

 But except for the Roos, (with which they are level on points), all the other teams are above them on the ladder, not 15 to 17 positions below!

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:54, Tony Tea said:

Glad to see Hawthorn embrace The Curse of Alistair Clarkson, but less glad to know that he will go to Carlton or Collingwood.

I would like to see him go to the Gold Coast. If he can't get that place ticking over no one will.

I would also like to see his reaction when he sees Bozo the Clown (their pre match entertainment for the kiddies) and blows his top. I am guessing a decent spray and a few jumper punches would be in the works. ?

I wonder if a full pay out means he can be put on Garden leave from coaching for a year 

  On 30/07/2021 at 02:45, Ollie fan said:

It may be one of the worst club decisions in the history of the game, but it still pales into insignificance besides sacking a coach who had been in four premierships as a player, six premierships as coach, and has an inferior side at the top of the ladder, on the basis that you don’t like his attitude to the committee……..

To quote that coach" They made me eat humble pie"

  On 30/07/2021 at 03:56, picket fence said:

Who would NOT have Clarko??

Messiah syndrome.

beware the sins of idolatry

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:38, Deeoldfart said:

My  understanding is that contract ‘pay-outs’ are included in the soft cap.  If this is the case, how on earth can Hawthorn ‘afford’ to pay out Clarko for next year (big dollars presumably) while paying Mitchell as coach, and the rest of the support team.  
I guess my understanding is incorrect.

I suspect your understanding of the soft cap is correct. However, paying Clarkson out presumably is no more than the payment he would have been entitled to in 2022. As such, it doesn't affect their soft cap as the 2022 number is the same. The only difference is that the Clarkson dollars are counted in 2022 on an absent voice. Where Hawthorn benefits is from 2023 where Clarkson's salary - which is presumably one of the highest for coaches in the competition - disappears from the soft cap allowing (one would assume) Hawthorn to employ perhaps three or more assistants in lieu of Clarkson.  

  On 30/07/2021 at 05:39, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I suspect your understanding of the soft cap is correct. However, paying Clarkson out presumably is no more than the payment he would have been entitled to in 2022. As such, it doesn't affect their soft cap as the 2022 number is the same. The only difference is that the Clarkson dollars are counted in 2022 on an absent voice. Where Hawthorn benefits is from 2023 where Clarkson's salary - which is presumably one of the highest for coaches in the competition - disappears from the soft cap allowing (one would assume) Hawthorn to employ perhaps three or more assistants in lieu of Clarkson.  

well they will have to now give mitchell a decent pay rise for head coach, so that is extra. Plus they will have to pay extra for a new vfl/line coach, out of the soft cap, so it will definitely hurt them in 2022.

however, there may be a clarkson payout clause whereby if he takes on another coaching job in 2022 his payout for 2022 is reduced according to some agreed formula? It has been done before.

  On 30/07/2021 at 01:05, Lucifer's Hero said:

Gobsmacked, after his impassioned commitment a mere week ago.

"The decision was reached on Thursday after a meeting between the Hawthorn board and Clarkson’s management in which the two parties agreed that the coach would receive a full payout.

The arranged marriage between Clarkson and Sam Mitchell was further-eroded earlier this week when a group of senior players confided to club bosses that the situation was proving untenable".

Senior players. WOW. 

Machiavelli would have been proud of how it has all played out!!

Terrible way to treat a 4 time premiership coach.  Hope it comes back to bite them for decades to come.

He played this to a tea Clarkson, he knew full well they didn't want him and said all the right things about fulfilling his contract.

Played them like the fiddled and recieved his full payout from the Hawks.

Game, set, match, Clarkson.

This has Pep Guardiola written all over it, this has been 3 years in the making got his Fitness Guru Andrew Russell to leave and set things up at Carlton. Build the players fitness levels to a certain standard and he'll come in and reap the rewards when im finished at Hawthorn. 

Teague all along has been a stop gap for the eventual arrival of Clarkson.

  On 30/07/2021 at 05:52, daisycutter said:

well they will have to now give mitchell a decent pay rise for head coach, so that is extra. Plus they will have to pay extra for a new vfl/line coach, out of the soft cap, so it will definitely hurt them in 2022.

however, there may be a clarkson payout clause whereby if he takes on another coaching job in 2022 his payout for 2022 is reduced according to some agreed formula? It has been done before.

Presumably Mitchell's pay rise was already factored in to the 2022 figure before Clarkson decided to exit/was shown the door. I would be very surprised if Mitchell is getting any extra dollars above what he was expecting to get in 2022 just because of the change today.

  On 30/07/2021 at 05:52, daisycutter said:

well they will have to now give mitchell a decent pay rise for head coach, so that is extra. Plus they will have to pay extra for a new vfl/line coach, out of the soft cap, so it will definitely hurt them in 2022.

however, there may be a clarkson payout clause whereby if he takes on another coaching job in 2022 his payout for 2022 is reduced according to some agreed formula? It has been done before.

He would have had it all on his own terms, I'm not agreeing to anything unless im able to coach at another club next year.

It was a mexican stand off between Clarko and Kennett, Clarko wasn't going anywhere until he had the full payout and could coach in 2022.

Eat [censored] Kennett.

Lol i hope this means the hawks have YEARS down the bottom end of the table!

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:00, 58er said:

Hey can't be proven as this years Hawks performances have been all over the shop right up there with the most unreliable in the AFL.

Tomorrow night the Hawks could  be on the bottom with one wing holding onto the wooden spoon!!!

If that happens it will improve how poor we were being unable to best them two weeks ago. 

  On 30/07/2021 at 04:55, xarronn said:

 But except for the Roos, (with which they are level on points), all the other teams are above them on the ladder, not 15 to 17 positions below!

The comment I was responding to was "embarrasing loses to bottom sides wouldnt happen on his watch!"

And if you look at the ladder at the time they played them they were all in similar positions.

Either way, it's a silly comment as Hawthorn are currently a bottom side, so it simply doesn't stack up.

  On 30/07/2021 at 05:59, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Presumably Mitchell's pay rise was already factored in to the 2022 figure before Clarkson decided to exit/was shown the door. I would be very surprised if Mitchell is getting any extra dollars above what he was expecting to get in 2022 just because of the change today.

i very much doubt it.... his responsibilities for 2022 just went up a huge notch