Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations

[Mental Demons 136]

42 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Sounds like Luke Jackson must have pinched MD's girlfriend or run over his dog (or the other way around).

Haven't you made that joke already? If you want to be funny, get a new writer. My girlfriend thinks football is stupid. I don't have pets, I have human friends. Unlike most on here, I have seen the demons win a Grand Final. I do not think  it will happen under Goodwin so think about where the team will be in a couple of years.  

[Travis Boots 157]

1 hour ago, Mental Demons said:

Haven't you made that joke already? If you want to be funny, get a new writer. My girlfriend thinks football is stupid. I don't have pets, I have human friends. Unlike most on here, I have seen the demons win a Grand Final. I do not think  it will happen under Goodwin so think about where the team will be in a couple of years.  

Trac and Clarry are both already on over 700k. There is no need to move on BOTH Brayshaw and Jackson. They’re not going to be getting more than 900-950k on their next contracts and Brayshaw is already taking up  around 625k 
 

 

[Roost it far 8,577]

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

No insult, I am engaging you. You seem to have an idea that winning on the field does not happen unless the off-field is excellent, I agree. I actually think Jackson will be pretty good in 2-3 years. Max took years of Casey before he was the best in the league. No other ruck on our list will get the gig while Max is around. They are there for back-up. If they can't kick goals they won't keep forwards out of the team.

The best career move a ruck on our list can do is go to another team. Footy is a business, the Dees have done some things very well. They have also done things badly. There is an issue ahead that if you want to have the best players in the league, you have to pay them what they are worth.  Trac and Oliver are possibly in the top ten in the league - Viney and Brayshaw might scrape into the top 100. Jackson may be worth rolling the dice on to be a top ten player, I doubt there is the budget or the years that might take to happen here.

If the only way to keep Trac and Oliver was to trade others out there s not many that are worth enough to make enough difference. I think it will be bye to L.J. and probably Brayshaw, maybe others too. I think we will be open to offers if we want the best. The cheap talent we have is very good value as a supporting cast. It is something the club have done OK with.

At the end of the year we lose Melksham, Hibberd and trade Brayshaw at a start. We’ll have more than enough to keep Oliver. Relax, it’s a few years and several Premierships before we start losing quality to contain the salary cap

[Dr. Gonzo 24,274]

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

No insult, I am engaging you. You seem to have an idea that winning on the field does not happen unless the off-field is excellent, I agree. I actually think Jackson will be pretty good in 2-3 years. Max took years of Casey before he was the best in the league. No other ruck on our list will get the gig while Max is around. They are there for back-up. If they can't kick goals they won't keep forwards out of the team.

The best career move a ruck on our list can do is go to another team. Footy is a business, the Dees have done some things very well. They have also done things badly. There is an issue ahead that if you want to have the best players in the league, you have to pay them what they are worth.  Trac and Oliver are possibly in the top ten in the league - Viney and Brayshaw might scrape into the top 100. Jackson may be worth rolling the dice on to be a top ten player, I doubt there is the budget or the years that might take to happen here.

If the only way to keep Trac and Oliver was to trade others out there s not many that are worth enough to make enough difference. I think it will be bye to L.J. and probably Brayshaw, maybe others too. I think we will be open to offers if we want the best. The cheap talent we have is very good value as a supporting cast. It is something the club have done OK with.

Max was drafted in 2009, how many years do you reckon he has left? How much money do you reckon moving LJ on would free up? It just makes no sense especially when others like Hibberd, Melksham, Jetta, AvB, Jones plus others like Baker, Bedford etc would all be primary candidates to be retired, traded or delisted at end of year. Hell I reckon we'd probably move on Weideman before LJ especially if Brown can string games together and TMac continues his early season form.

[Sydee 4,529]

2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

No insult, I am engaging you. You seem to have an idea that winning on the field does not happen unless the off-field is excellent, I agree. I actually think Jackson will be pretty good in 2-3 years. Max took years of Casey before he was the best in the league. No other ruck on our list will get the gig while Max is around. They are there for back-up. If they can't kick goals they won't keep forwards out of the team.

The best career move a ruck on our list can do is go to another team. Footy is a business, the Dees have done some things very well. They have also done things badly. There is an issue ahead that if you want to have the best players in the league, you have to pay them what they are worth.  Trac and Oliver are possibly in the top ten in the league - Viney and Brayshaw might scrape into the top 100. Jackson may be worth rolling the dice on to be a top ten player, I doubt there is the budget or the years that might take to happen here.

If the only way to keep Trac and Oliver was to trade others out there s not many that are worth enough to make enough difference. I think it will be bye to L.J. and probably Brayshaw, maybe others too. I think we will be open to offers if we want the best. The cheap talent we have is very good value as a supporting cast. It is something the club have done OK with.

Let’s just politely agree to disagree on this topic 

Based on your first paragraph you probably would have sent Max packing - that would have been a mistake 

You also concede that LJ will probably be really good in 2 -3 years - this I agree with so why move him on now when Max may have 3 to 4 years left 

There are plenty of others that I would target before LJ and btw I don’t consider him as just a ruck he has the potential to be so much more than that in fact he could be a once in a generation type player - our recruiting team probably agree and that’s why he was taken with such a high pick 

As I’ve said before it’s great that you have an opinion on this - I hope he stays and I hope he helps us win a premiership one day 

Our best players will get paid handsomely - like Richmond , Geelong and previously Hawthorn during their sting years each of their better players will compromise a bit on $’s to share the ultimate success with their mates 

The AFL is littered with examples of players that left for big pay days that never enjoyed the ultimate success. I don’t feel Trac or Oliver are like that. 

Tom Scully says hi ! 

 

 

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

Funny how St Kilda and Sydney are unclear about salary cap space

Enter Lockett and Franklin....what's new

[Fanatique Demon 2,651]

It would be good to know the salaries of the top 10 players at Richmond so we could compare our top players’ salaries. Does anyone know or have a sensible guess?

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He was dam close to leaving last Summer. 
 

Sure he was, FFS you and others on here fell for player management 101

[58er 6,552]

2 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

It would be good to know the salaries of the top 10 players at Richmond so we could compare our top players’ salaries. Does anyone know or have a sensible guess?

What use us a sensible guess ? We don't know so move on. 

[Fanatique Demon 2,651]

4 hours ago, 58er said:

What use us a sensible guess ? We don't know so move on. 

That’s a rather binary approach. So unless we know the facts, anything else is useless? What’s it like living such a black and white life?

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

9 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Sure he was, FFS you and others on here fell for player management 101

Are you disputing that Clarry was not close to leaving last year?

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Are you disputing that Clarry was not close to leaving last year?

Yes absolutely, don’t turn this into one of your long running 20 post sagas and don’t let facts get in the way of a whisper, which evolved into your statement

Was Clarrie unhappy- yes maybe

Was he out of contract - No 

Did any club offer us anything to take Clarrie -,No

Do managers put rumours out 12/18 months in advance of contract negotiations- yes all the time

Did any club have the required funds to pay for him - North and Hawthorn did but at trade time nobody else did

Did any club have the required compensation to get Clarrie from us-No

Would we have let him go for unders - No

So yes I’m absolutely saying He was never “close” to leaving last summer. 
 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Pennant St Dee

[old55 23,687]

Even taking into account TMac's good start to this year I'd trade him way ahead of Weideman or Jackson if we need Cap space for Oliver and Petracca.  We've got the makings of a sustained long term assault on the flag and they are hard to win.  Keep showing up for the next 5-7 years and we'll have a good chance of breaking through.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

44 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Yes absolutely, don’t turn this into one of your long running 20 post sagas and don’t let facts get in the way of a whisper, which evolved into your statement

Was Clarrie unhappy- yes maybe

Was he out of contract - No 

Did any club offer us anything to take Clarrie -,No

Do managers put rumours out 12/18 months in advance of contract negotiations- yes all the time

Did any club have the required funds to pay for him - North and Hawthorn did but at trade time nobody else did

Did any club have the required compensation to get Clarrie from us-No

Would we have let him go for unders - No

So yes I’m absolutely saying He was never “close” to leaving last summer. 
 

He most certainly was

inside information. 

Have a lie down

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

If the group wants sustained success, that means all of them will have to sacrifice some of their pay. If they see an extra 200K-300K (or possibly more) being more important to them, then i wouldn't want that player anyway as they will not be 100% committed to the team ethos that Richmond has made the blueprint of their success over the past 5 years. 

GWS is a prime example of a team of individuals. I think Carlton is heading that way as well. 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by CYB

[daisycutter 29,731]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He most certainly was

inside information. 

Have a lie down

you'll have to provide more info than that, wyl

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

21 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

you'll have to provide more info than that, wyl

Passing on what i was told DC, from a good source. 
Take it or leave it. 

[daisycutter 29,731]

39 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Passing on what i was told DC, from a good source. 
Take it or leave it. 

all you've said is

• he was unhappy (no details)
• he was very close to leaving (what? talked to other clubs? manager shopped him around? club got offers? he asked to leave?  surely if he was "very close" other better connected than you sources would have said something in media?)
• you got it from an inside source (not even any vague details)

Like I said you need to do better than that or change your very strong statement

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

all you've said is

• he was unhappy (no details)
• he was very close to leaving (what? talked to other clubs? manager shopped him around? club got offers? he asked to leave?  surely if he was "very close" other better connected than you sources would have said something in media?)
• you got it from an inside source (not even any vague details)

Like I said you need to do better than that or change your very strong statement

So you want me to quote an entire conversation verbatim on a public forum DC?

Sorry mate. It doesn’t work that way, I value my sources 

Clarry was very close to leaving at the end of last year, that is all i can say  

If you choose to not believe what i say, that is up to you. 

[daisycutter 29,731]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

So you want me to quote an entire conversation verbatim on a public forum DC?

Sorry mate. It doesn’t work that way, I value my sources 

Clarry was very close to leaving at the end of last year, that is all i can say  

If you choose to not believe what i say, that is up to you. 

hahaha

nobody asked for any verbatim anything. your reading comprehension is sadly lacking

your lack of info and definition saddens me and encourages me to ignore your prognostications

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

hahaha

nobody asked for any verbatim anything. your reading comprehension is sadly lacking

your lack of info and definition saddens me and encourages me to ignore your prognostications

Ok. No skin off my nose

it is astounding how one is always attacked for passing on information, whilst protecting a good source at the same time. 
it’s called diplomacy 

[PaulRB 6,411]

If Oliver was cranky and looking at leaving, then in part, I’d put it down to his immaturity and hopefully he’s realised it will be him, stepping up to lead his teammates that will deliver the success he may have being frustrated the MFC (and he) wasn’t experiencing.

Theres a great moment in “The last Dance” where MJ crossed this thread hold, embraced the team plan and refocused on team success over personal success...

Hopefully, Clayton too has crossed this thresh hold.

[jnrmac 20,181]

Oliver is already the best mid we have had for nearly 40 years and he's only played 100 games. He's also getting better if the last 2 games are an indication.

There is a price at which you wouldn't match it but we would be made to facilitate a trade for him. We should be doing everything in our power to keep our young guys together. Winning generally means they want to keep playing together so lets all hope that Goody has really turned the corner with his coaching.

 

[whatwhat say what 22,932]

i thought it was fairly well accepted that clayton wasn't a happy camper last year?

afaik, he didn't request a trade and no offer was forthcoming for him from a rival club

i remain confident he'll sign a new deal with us at some stage this year and go on to become a demon legend

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

What would you all say if Oliver leaving meant we were able to acquire the services of Zac Merrett? It is no secret that:

1. Right now, we lack silk and speed on the outside;
2. We are tight on salary cap and hence would have to trade out for this move to be possible
3. Zac is not happy at Bomberland and could be convinced to leave if the price and destination were right.

Dont get me wrong - i rate Oliver highly but have always said that inside mids are a dime a dozen. I just dont think we have any other player (aside from Trac) who would get us what we need to secure Zac.