Clayton Oliver Contract negotiations

[BW511 2,673]

5 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

The players you have listed, all four would struggle to complete Oliver’s stats in one game.

we cannot let him walk out the door, he has a norm smith written all over him! (If we ever bloody get there....)

Oliver's stats are not winning us games of football, despite what everyone thinks.

See above example

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

Happy to disagree, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy him as a player.

I think if he were to walk we have others that could cover him (Viney, Sparrow, Gus, Harmes etc) and the currency we would get in return would net us the equivalent player in a position which would better balance our side. If he's as good and irreplaceable as many believe, then we could get almost anyone in the league in - think about that side of the equation

 

Who would we get in return?

Talent in the AFL is stretched more than ever, we wouldn’t get close to a top 20 AFL player in return for Oliver as no one is willing to trade them.

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

Oliver doesn’t value add to the mountain of possession he earns. Works very hard but his dinky hand passes are more often too cute. Taps to advantage are of more value than some of the 1 metre hand passes he favours. His kicking is nothing praiseworthy either. Sometimes I get the impression he just plays for his own satisfaction and not for the team. I’d like to see a Jack Riewoldt attitude metamorphosis to his game. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by america de cali

[BW511 2,673]

11 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Who would we get in return?

Talent in the AFL is stretched more than ever, we wouldn’t get close to a top 20 AFL player in return for Oliver as no one is willing to trade them.

Or perhaps he isn't worth that?

[whatwhat say what 22,778]

13 minutes ago, BW511 said:

How do people feel about Tom Mitchell from Hawthorn?

He wins a mountain of footy but doesn't do any great damage from a game sense.

mitchell almost singlehandedly dragged hawthorn back from 40 points down to win by a 1 point with an absolutely blitz second half as a ball-winning midfielder

he was CRAZY dominant and is integral to the hawks in the same way that oliver is for us

pert on 3aw sounded very confident, very comfortable with how negotiations are proceeding with oliver's contract; i'm hoping it gets done sooner rather than later but i'm reasonably confident it will happen

[The Jackson FIX 3,156]

1 minute ago, whatwhat say what said:

mitchell almost singlehandedly dragged hawthorn back from 40 points down to win by a 1 point with an absolutely blitz second half as a ball-winning midfielder

he was CRAZY dominant and is integral to the hawks in the same way that oliver is for us

pert on 3aw sounded very confident, very comfortable with how negotiations are proceeding with oliver's contract; i'm hoping it gets done sooner rather than later but i'm reasonably confident it will happen

Pert sounded similarly confident about getting 50k to the G on Saturday. Kingy and Whately  just questioned whether Pert has his finger close enough to the pulse. I’d be lying if I said I completely disagreed with them...

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

23 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Oliver's stats are not winning us games of football, despite what everyone thinks.

See above example

Oliver is helping us win games, do yourself a favour, go to a game live and just watch him work his craft, he takes the best tagged each week which allows our other midfielders some freedom.  You do not let 23 year old AA walk out of the club for some draft picks, you add talent around Oliver.

 

it’s concerning how much you overrate this bloke.

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

8 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Oliver doesn’t value add to the mountain of possession he earns. Works very hard but his dinky hand passes are more often too cute. Taps to advantage are of more value than some of the 1 metre hand passes he favours. His kicking is nothing praiseworthy either. Sometimes I get the impression he just plays for his own satisfaction and not for the team. I’d like to see a Jack Riewoldt attitude metamorphosis to his game. 

I think comments like this show how Oliver gets  marked harder than almost anyone else.  Yes he does some dinky handballs but he also does many that get chains of possessions going and us moving forward.  On the weekend he did a number of kicks thatset us up that if they were done by Jordon or Sparrow people would be raving.

Where he (and the rest of the centre square players) need to improve is getting the balance right of knowing when to kick, when to handball and when to break the tackle.  I think they are committed to not winning the clearance if it just results in a kick that is intercepted which is a positive change - but if we turn it over in the middle then we've lost that territory that could have been gained - even if it was a kick along the ground which means the opposition are unable to mark it.

[whatwhat say what 22,778]

23 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Pert sounded similarly confident about getting 50k to the G on Saturday. Kingy and Whately  just questioned whether Pert has his finger close enough to the pulse. I’d be lying if I said I completely disagreed with them...

eh? pert said on multiple pre-game interviews on 3aw and sen that he was hoping for 23k or thereabouts, which would be right in the standard spot for attendance vs freo, but that given no walk-ups were allowed we'd probably be missing 3-4,000 who fall in that criteria

i wish people would actually listen to what was being said by the club and not simply make stuff up

Edited March 21, 2021 by whatwhat say what

[BW511 2,673]

11 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

Oliver is helping us win games, do yourself a favour, go to a game live and just watch him work his craft, he takes the best tagged each week which allows our other midfielders some freedom.  You do not let 23 year old AA walk out of the club for some draft picks, you add talent around Oliver.

 

it’s concerning how much you overrate this bloke.

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he isn't the most important player in our team.

Earlier in the thread I listed players I thought had a direct impact on our result, I'll do it again;

This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important.

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

2 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he isn't the most important player in our team.

Earlier in the thread I listed players I thought had a direct impact on our result, I'll do it again;

This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important.

I get where you’re coming from, my big concern is we’re a middle of the run team currently with quality depth issues in our squad, taking a top 5 player out of our team currently is a major concern, I have zero faith in the organisation that he would be covered.  After watching Issac Smith on Saturday, he is exactly what we needed, we missed out on him and didn’t have another option.

 

The thing I love about Oliver is he always cracks in, never goes missing and is always available, that’s incredibly hard to replace, especially in a team like ours.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

Hes awesome, but still waiting for him to kick goals like hes capable of doing.

Thats on Goodwin and the coaches though.

[The Jackson FIX 3,156]

26 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

eh? pert said on multiple pre-game interviews on 3aw and sen that he was hoping for 23k or thereabouts, which would be right in the standard spot for attendance vs freo, but that given no walk-ups were allowed we'd probably be missing 3-4,000 who fall in that criteria

i wish people would actually listen to what was being said by the club and not simply make stuff up

I don’t make stuff up. Pre-game he’d revised his expectations because he knew the ticket sales. The week prior he is on record as saying he forecasted 45-50k. 

[whatwhat say what 22,778]

6 minutes ago, The Jackson 6 said:

I don’t make stuff up. Pre-game he’d revised his expectations because he knew the ticket sales. The week prior he is on record as saying he forecasted 45-50k. 

never heard him ever mention that sort of forecast so until you can show me the quote then i think you are making it up

while the so-called 'demon army' let the club down by not turning up, the only quote i saw he had re crowd figures on sen the week that whateley did the whole MoVe ThE pEpTiDeS tO tHe G narrative:

“We’re expecting a really strong crowd and there’s certainly a high level of excitement about coming to the MCG for the first game and being part of it again.

“There’s a lot to consider before anyone just throws up hypotheticals about moving a game like that.”

[BDA 22,755]

2 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

never heard him ever mention that sort of forecast so until you can show me the quote then i think you are making it up

while the so-called 'demon army' let the club down by not turning up, the only quote i saw he had re crowd figures on sen the week that whateley did the whole MoVe ThE pEpTiDeS tO tHe G narrative:

“We’re expecting a really strong crowd and there’s certainly a high level of excitement about coming to the MCG for the first game and being part of it again.

“There’s a lot to consider before anyone just throws up hypotheticals about moving a game like that.”

I thought he mentioned 27k on the DL podcast

[whatwhat say what 22,778]

Just now, Better days ahead said:

I thought he mentioned 27k on the DL podcast

and by the saturday of the game he'd revised it down to 23k expectation

certainly a long way from the 45-50k that is being quoted up thread

anyway, has nothing to do with clayton's contract...which i - like pert! - remain confident will get done

[trout 385]

SEN played a snippet of an interview with Pert from a week or so earlier today and he said he anticipated a crowd of 45 to 50 thousand. It was in relation to some people wanting the Essendon v Hawthorn game shifted to the MCG and our game being moved to Docklands. He clearly said on the weekend a crowd in the mid twenties, obviously after pre game sales were poor. 

[The Jackson FIX 3,156]

1 minute ago, trout said:

SEN played a snippet of an interview with Pert from a week or so earlier today and he said he anticipated a crowd of 45 to 50 thousand. It was in relation to some people wanting the Essendon v Hawthorn game shifted to the MCG and our game being moved to Docklands. He clearly said on the weekend a crowd in the mid twenties, obviously after pre game sales were poor. 

That’s where I heard it.  

[Dr.D 1,771]

10 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

My problem isn't necessarily Oliver leaving it's replacing him.

We all see the issues with our midfield, not short on talent, it's just unbalanced. 

The super unrealistic ideal world is you off load Harmes for early 2nd, late first. Combo picks together and go after a Dunkley, McGrath etc. We should have cap space when you consider Jones/Hibbo/T. Mac/Jetta are closing in on the end and potentially trading a Harmes to cover the budget for both Clarry and another star mid.

Real world scenario is we will probably end up losing Clarry, tying down the lesser inside mids like Brayshaw and Harmes and then going to the draft and getting two kids who probably won't even fill what we need.

what world do you live in that thinks we would get an early 2nd or late first for Harmes. Good grief

[Dr.D 1,771]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he isn't the most important player in our team.

Earlier in the thread I listed players I thought had a direct impact on our result, I'll do it again;

This is exactly the point, he’s a very even contributor and gets plenty of attention, but from an opposition point of view he would not be the one they want to stop. I think it would currently be Trac, Gawn, May and/or Lever then Oliver. He was rated our 5th best yesterday in the match report, so even they thought a lot of his 35 touches weren’t great or important.

I'd say he is the most important player. I personally have always questioned the influence of ruckmen. A lot of premiership teams have had no decent ruckman. And petracca has had 1 good season whereas Oliver has had several. he is also a far better clearance player. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Dr.D

[Ethan Tremblay 30,872]

13 hours ago, layzie said:

Gut feel is he's leaning to the exit door. Hope it changes 

Slap ya guts and take a dump. 

[The Jackson FIX 3,156]

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

never heard him ever mention that sort of forecast so until you can show me the quote then i think you are making it up

while the so-called 'demon army' let the club down by not turning up, the only quote i saw he had re crowd figures on sen the week that whateley did the whole MoVe ThE pEpTiDeS tO tHe G narrative:

“We’re expecting a really strong crowd and there’s certainly a high level of excitement about coming to the MCG for the first game and being part of it again.

“There’s a lot to consider before anyone just throws up hypotheticals about moving a game like that.”

https://www.sen.com.au/programs/whateley/

‘The Monday Means test with David King 22.03’ -  at the 14 minute mark Gary Pert says; “ we would expect a crowd of 45 to 50 thousand people”. 

[Doug Reemer 1,197]

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

Oliver had 25 handballs.

Using this game alone, who was more effective;

Trac - 25 (13 Kicks 11 handballs and 2.1 Goals - Including one that missed everything when he 'played on')

Oliver - 35 (10 Kicks 25 handballs)

Tim Watson is not wrong, even with the high numbers Oliver produced.

How do people feel about Tom Mitchell from Hawthorn?

He wins a mountain of footy but doesn't do any great damage from a game sense.

 

 

Every side need a ball winner like Oliver at the coldface. Oliver does it on the inside and out. Both as important as each other. Look at the difference from the dogs to the freo game he makes in our midfield without Oliver Petracca can't go fwd and kick 2 goals.

[Roost it far 8,295]

2 hours ago, The Jackson 6 said:

Pert sounded similarly confident about getting 50k to the G on Saturday. Kingy and Whately  just questioned whether Pert has his finger close enough to the pulse. I’d be lying if I said I completely disagreed with them...

Pert suggested we’d get 27k in an interview 

[Superunknown 4,217]

17 hours ago, Demon17 said:

He's important , but, he's not a match winner - albeit a great contributor. Once again yesterday he was goaless.

i.e  he's not Dusty, Buddy, Josh Kennedy, Danger, Selwood, Bont, 

But guess who is?  - Petracca.

Christian this year will become the club's talisman and be the difference in making finals.

My man! My 5-nearly-6 yo LOVES Trac. (And Romsey Lever, coz his grandma used to teach him. And Ed Langdon, coz dad loves that Energizer Bunny in long sleeves.)

Trac sells memberships, wins games.

When Petracca gets bullocking, lightning stands still.

-Old Jungle Saying