Mark Maclure "Soft Culture" Comments

[napster 183]

According to the Fox article 

‘..coach Simon Goodwin, who’s contracted until the end of 20222…’

And I thought Pert overdid it with the current extension. Is there any chance of a flag sometime in that next 18,201 years? Or that Goody might finally develop a plan B along the way?

[Beetle 4,578]

22 minutes ago, napster said:

Is there any chance of a flag sometime in that next 18,201 years? 

Even in the next 201 years, it’s highly unlikely.

[jayceebee31 759]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

AB you may be right and if so that means for most of the last 56 years we have had poor players / average coaches. I actually think we have had the trifector. 

AGREE

[Sir Why You Little 36,907]

7 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Maclure was a good footballer in his day, which was last in 1986 .... 35 years ago! 

However I'm not necessarily sure that he's the one to be talking about off-field culture either, given his reputation during his playing days. The reason he has the nickname 'Sellars' is because his messy behaviour when drinking reminded them of Peter Sellars. Is this the guy who you want to be lectured to about culture?!?!

Did he give 100% of himself? Reports are mixed. 

As for listening to him rather than bagging him, the reason I'm bagging him out is because I have listened to him! I'm bagging him out on the basis of what he says. And what he says is terrible. 

He did win 3 Flags in 4 years. 
i know the Carlton Culture back then, they Played Hard and Partied Hard. 
But when they trained and Played Matches, it was all in, everyone. No excuses (A mate used to Recruit for them in Perth, the stories he has told!!)

Sellers aint Perfect, but he has a point about The MFC, every year something is lacking that brings us down. It is up to the Players to ensure that things like that are unacceptable, to break the drought 

[Pates 9,649]

Something that during and after games (particularly losses) consistently is the attitude of the players. I can handle losing if I look at the players and think, “they genuinely had a dip, leaving everything out there” I don’t feel like I’ve seen that enough in the last two seasons. 

Attitude is nothing to do with how well you kick, handball, mark, and ruck-tap. It’s all down to putting your body into contests, working harder than your direct opponent, being in two on one situations and breaking even, supporting your players with shepherds, tapping the ball on instead of trying to mark it etc. These are team acts that rarely get a clear statistic but they inspire teammates, they’re also things that coaches can tell players to do but it’s down to them out on the field. 

[Pates 9,649]

So just for fun I thought I'd watch the Hawthorn final again because it's great fun to watch but I also wanted to see how we played and see how "soft" we were back then.

I tell ya what, we were anything but soft, and this is only a couple of years ago with MANY of the key players that night still playing. When we tackled, we tackled HARD. We went at EVERY contest with courage and ferocity. We may not have been clean but when we weren't the players heads didn't slump they got on with it and went for the second effort (great example of that was in the middle Weids spilled a mark and followed up with a big tackle). 

Another really interesting thing about it was Spargo was very important, his tackles stuck really well, and he worked hard to get into dangerous positions. I wouldn't say our forward line was functioning incredible that night but we spread well to create space and goals either over the back or within 25-30m of goal, there was a clear connection of where the forward were expecting the kicks were going to be. We got some luck with the Hawks being more with their efficiency going forward whether that was kicks for goal or the final kick inside 50 but we had periods where we did the same.

The bottom line is that effort is rewarded, and I honestly feel like the effort hasn't been there in the last 12-18 months (on the field). Get that back and we play finals.

[BDA 22,691]

I think soft describes Rd23 2017 pretty well.

How can a team turn up with a finals spot on the line, against an opponent with only pride to play for, and not lay a tackle? Nothing to do with skill, game plan or injuries and everything to do with mindset. Proper teams would never let it happen.

The whole 2019 season was soft. We were absolutely pathetic from top to bottom. You can;t tell me it was just injuries and bad coaching (although these were factors, no question). We felt sorry for ourselves so put the cue in the rack. Soft as butter. 

[BDA 22,691]

6 pages in and no one has mentioned the proverbial bathwater. We do like to admire our own work at times.

@Pates has given a great example of proper application and attitude during the Hawthorn final. Unfortunately we followed it up with an embarrassing prelim performance. Never fired a shot.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He did win 3 Flags in 4 years. 
i know the Carlton Culture back then, they Played Hard and Partied Hard. 
But when they trained and Played Matches, it was all in, everyone. No excuses (A mate used to Recruit for them in Perth, the stories he has told!!)

Sellers aint Perfect, but he has a point about The MFC, every year something is lacking that brings us down. It is up to the Players to ensure that things like that are unacceptable, to break the drought 

I think some of our younger posters are reading it the wrong way. Sellars aint saying go back to the good old days, and I wound understand criticism if he was. Yes, those guys played hard off the field but took no prisoners at training or match day. Even allowing for drinking after training, after a win and pleasant sunday morning barrels those guys were fitter than our guys today. They were fit fit fit. At training they could do 100x 100 sprints with 30 second breaks. Again, sure a different level of fitness but it took hard work and discipline.  Their culture was driven internally by the players and the coach was left to do the strategy stuff.

[Waltham33 475]

I watched it, taking it with a grain of salt TBH.  He said it, then took a dig at Max directly which seemed unfounded (although others may know more) and then noted that Dees will be better when injured midfielders get back.  Standards are hard to judge unless you are at the club 

[Doug Reemer 1,192]

19 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Mark Maclure saying the culture and success at the Dees needs to be driven by the players. He is the perfect guy to comment as he was a key member of the fantastic Carlton sides of the 80s. Parkin may have coached them but that group played together socialised together and won premierships by being honest with each other, never letting egos get too big and having immense pride in their ability to play big time footy.  

There's not a man in the media I hate more than this bloke. Probably right. But take a look at your own [censored] fight of a club.

[Commissioner Dreyfus 49]

1 hour ago, Doug Reemer said:

There's not a man in the media I hate more than this bloke. Probably right. But take a look at your own [censored] fight of a club.

Well, that he has, ad nauseam.

For example...

https://thewest.com.au/sport/carlton-blues/worst-20-years-of-a-football-club-legend-mark-maclure-slams-carlton-after-trouncing-ng-b881204963z

 

 

[Demon3 2,541]

Maclure throws out things like this all the time and im not saying he is totally wrong, our club suffers from a lot of things, culture? its a lazy thing to say if you are not inside the tent, but sadly until we prove its not a mess we will be labelled so and we frankly deserve it.

He is right when he says... its up to teh players.. they are teh ones that need to stand up. I hope they can.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,122]

2 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

I think soft describes Rd23 2017 pretty well.

How can a team turn up with a finals spot on the line, against an opponent with only pride to play for, and not lay a tackle? Nothing to do with skill, game plan or injuries and everything to do with mindset. Proper teams would never let it happen.

The whole 2019 season was soft. We were absolutely pathetic from top to bottom. You can;t tell me it was just injuries and bad coaching (although these were factors, no question). We felt sorry for ourselves so put the cue in the rack. Soft as butter. 

vs Carlton 2016

vs North in Tas 2017

vs Coll 2017

vs Sydney 2018

vs Sydney 2020

vs Freo 2020

[Smokey 4,387]

More meaningless drivel which speculates that our captain and player's essentially don't care about winning games of footy. Righto. It was a pre season game with a lot of our best players out. Seriously give me a break. 

This sort of shallow and meaningless commentary is designed to do nothing but provoke people like us into clicking a link for revenue.  

Where was the commentary on our positive culture after we won a game vs a basically full strength Richmond side? * crickets * 

I'm not saying our club hasn't got a lot of improvements to make, but these throwaway comments from washed up players desperately trying to retain some form of employment are just rubbish in the end. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Smokey

[BW511 2,624]

10 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Where was the commentary on our positive culture after we won a game vs a basically full strength Richmond side? * crickets * 
 

I think the reason we don't get praise for wins is we follow them up with games like the Bulldogs. I find it hard to ever be truly passionate about the Dees, because I can't be guaranteed the club will be passionate/committed enough to consistently win games.

If we won or really had a go against the dogs, this place would be buzzing. The only people stopping that happening are the playing group/coaching group.

 

[Smokey 4,387]

54 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I think the reason we don't get praise for wins is we follow them up with games like the Bulldogs. I find it hard to ever be truly passionate about the Dees, because I can't be guaranteed the club will be passionate/committed enough to consistently win games.

If we won or really had a go against the dogs, this place would be buzzing. The only people stopping that happening are the playing group/coaching group.

 

We didn't put a full strength side on the park. I would be slightly worried if we did, but we didn't. 

Anyone who thinks the playing group isn't passionate about winning is kidding themselves. Sometimes your just beaten by a better team on the day, there's no need to make assumptions about the groups intent. Especially in a pre-season game where the actual objective is just to get some game time in while not incurring serious injuries. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

22 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Confused by the narrative. So is it the players or the board/coaching staff?

In the paragraph above he takes aim at both before taking a pot shot at Gawn.

What exactly is Gawn meant to do? Need specifics.  Have a sit down and tell some players some truths. Ok and then what? Tom mcdonald suddenly going to rediscover form and langdon is going to hit targets?  

Whats the coach meant to do? Drop say Lever a few weeks and suddenly hell magically become an a grader? They sent a message to Fritsch last year.  Did that make a difference? 

Lets fix the fact we have 6-8 vfl players running around each week first. 

Why on earth would you mention Langdon. He is one of our best players. I haven't even seen the kicking issues that you speak of.  He is a gut runner and offers speed and work rate. He'd be one of the first picked to play. I'm glad you're not on match committee

[old55 23,314]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He did win 3 Flags in 4 years. 
i know the Carlton Culture back then, they Played Hard and Partied Hard. 
But when they trained and Played Matches, it was all in, everyone. No excuses (A mate used to Recruit for them in Perth, the stories he has told!!)

Sellers aint Perfect, but he has a point about The MFC, every year something is lacking that brings us down. It is up to the Players to ensure that things like that are unacceptable, to break the drought 

The culture McClure and co set at Carlton hasn't served them too well since then.  The 1995 flag side was the last gasp of that era and since then they've been at least as bad as us.  You could replace Melbourne with Carlton in his comments.

[BW511 2,624]

37 minutes ago, Smokey said:

We didn't put a full strength side on the park. I would be slightly worried if we did, but we didn't. 

Anyone who thinks the playing group isn't passionate about winning is kidding themselves. Sometimes your just beaten by a better team on the day, there's no need to make assumptions about the groups intent. Especially in a pre-season game where the actual objective is just to get some game time in while not incurring serious injuries. 

I'd love to share your optimism, as well as being proven wrong and eating humble pie.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,122]

34 minutes ago, Smokey said:

We didn't put a full strength side on the park. I would be slightly worried if we did, but we didn't. 

Anyone who thinks the playing group isn't passionate about winning is kidding themselves. Sometimes your just beaten by a better team on the day, there's no need to make assumptions about the groups intent. Especially in a pre-season game where the actual objective is just to get some game time in while not incurring serious injuries. 

Being passionate about winning isn't the issue. If poor performances occur as a one-off you can excuse it but when it's a repeated pattern of behaviour (and I'm not talking about the practice match) then there is an issue.

Take the well told story of Ablett Jnr - thought he was doing everything he needed to do to be the best he could be. Was given some home truths by his peers who told him he wasn't doing enough, pushing himself enough, preparing well enough - took it on board and became the best player in the comp. Not everyone will be the best in the comp but everyone needs to push themselves to be the best they can be and the team as a whole needs to work to being the best team (ie working together as a group and working for each other). I don't see that in our team, the 1%ers etc If they did that there's no reason they couldn't be consistent top 4 finishers and from there who knows? As it is they can't even make finals except for one season. Finals should be a given, not the goal.

[Sir Why You Little 36,907]

11 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

The culture McClure and co set at Carlton hasn't served them too well since then.  The 1995 flag side was the last gasp of that era and since then they've been at least as bad as us.  You could replace Melbourne with Carlton in his comments.

He didn’t play in that era. He played in a successful era.

once a Player leaves, they fade. Barassi did it to us 
I honestly feel that some supporters do not want sustained success, we have achieved nothing in 56 years. 
56 Grand Finals on OUR Home Ground have gone to our opponents with not one Norm Smith Medal. 
The words of Sellers have a lot of merit. 
he did it, including Back to Back

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,907]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Being passionate about winning isn't the issue. If poor performances occur as a one-off you can excuse it but when it's a repeated pattern of behaviour (and I'm not talking about the practice match) then there is an issue.

Take the well told story of Ablett Jnr - thought he was doing everything he needed to do to be the best he could be. Was given some home truths by his peers who told him he wasn't doing enough, pushing himself enough, preparing well enough - took it on board and became the best player in the comp. Not everyone will be the best in the comp but everyone needs to push themselves to be the best they can be and the team as a whole needs to work to being the best team (ie working together as a group and working for each other). I don't see that in our team, the 1%ers etc If they did that there's no reason they couldn't be consistent top 4 finishers and from there who knows? As it is they can't even make finals except for one season. Finals should be a given, not the goal.

Spot on Dr. 

[BW511 2,624]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Being passionate about winning isn't the issue. If poor performances occur as a one-off you can excuse it but when it's a repeated pattern of behaviour (and I'm not talking about the practice match) then there is an issue.

Take the well told story of Ablett Jnr - thought he was doing everything he needed to do to be the best he could be. Was given some home truths by his peers who told him he wasn't doing enough, pushing himself enough, preparing well enough - took it on board and became the best player in the comp. Not everyone will be the best in the comp but everyone needs to push themselves to be the best they can be and the team as a whole needs to work to being the best team (ie working together as a group and working for each other). I don't see that in our team, the 1%ers etc If they did that there's no reason they couldn't be consistent top 4 finishers and from there who knows? As it is they can't even make finals except for one season. Finals should be a given, not the goal.

I haven't been around for the whole 56 years, but I think it's ingrained in the fibre of the club that a switch will just magically flick and we start winning. 

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

16 hours ago, old dee said:

But has he been wrong with us? Sad to say he has not. For so called commentators we are a gift. You can put us down and 9 out of ten years you will be correct. 

Yes but i'm not going to sit there and say nothing when you knew people going back and they could be more helpful than just saying you haven't got any guts repeatedly.