Is someone keeping track of their salary cap?

Saad, Williams ....  & now DeGoey

 

I reckon the De Goey stuff is posturing, otherwise his value has really decreased. They'll be in trouble in the next 2-3 years Carlton if they land all these players and don't make finals. Their list is ageing and they won't have much cap space in a few years to hold anyone who becomes a star.

The thing about long contracts is, in any year you don't use you full cap you can push money forward to open up space in future.

Carlton have been front-ending deals for a long time and the wake that has built up is significant. 

Also worth noting that many of the swarm of ex-GWS and other recyxled players would have been on lowish dollars with players hoping to turn their careers around, so the 'risk' for injuries and form problems was on the player. Think Caleb Marchbank - when he gets it together he's a genuine quality tall defender and if he'd been incumbent at a club they might be forced to pay on potential.  As it is, he has to prove himself before the dollars come, and he has not proven himself.

Put another way - Carlton have many not-quite-right players but they are being paid at that level, too. 

If you combine the years of front-loading and the many players on lower salaries, it's no surprise they've got cash to burn.

I believe Martin will be on $250K next year after $1.7m this year. He will stay on a low amount for the rest of his contract.

Was by far the worst performance of a $1.7m player this year, in the history of the game.

The (albeit not very reliable) rumours about Cripps aren't going away, so maybe that's where the cash might come from?

 

 

  On 09/10/2020 at 06:18, Lord Nev said:

The (albeit not very reliable) rumours about Cripps aren't going away, so maybe that's where the cash might come from?

 

If Cripps were to want out back to WA, I could really only see the Dockers being the realistic suitors. I couldnt imagine the Eagles have any salary left nor the picks to satisfy Carlton in a trade, hence why I believe these rumours are total bull. 

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:04, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

If Cripps were to want out back to WA, I could really only see the Dockers being the realistic suitors. I couldnt imagine the Eagles have any salary left nor the picks to satisfy Carlton in a trade, hence why I believe these rumours are total bull. 

Fremantle is the rumour. Brayshaw and a pick is what I heard.

Can't see it happening, but also not going to say 100% it won't.

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:09, Lord Nev said:

Fremantle is the rumour. Brayshaw and a pick is what I heard.

Can't see it happening, but also not going to say 100% it won't.

Interesting indeed if that's the case. Carlton fans delusions about Oliver can continue on then. 

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:27, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Interesting indeed if that's the case. Carlton fans delusions about Oliver can continue on then. 

Oliver’s camp is the one pushing unfortunately 

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:38, Demons11 said:

Oliver’s camp is the one pushing unfortunately 

Yet to hear any credible sources on this one or have I been living under a rock?

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:43, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Yet to hear any credible sources on this one or have I been living under a rock?

I know a very credible source and as much as it pains me to say, this won’t go away atm.  Hopefully Melbourne just continues to say no 

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:46, Demons11 said:

I know a very credible source and as much as it pains me to say, this won’t go away atm.  Hopefully Melbourne just continues to say no 

Too many variables point to any sort of deal involving Clarry going anywhere not getting done. We need someone like a Jones and Gawn who have suffered through the worst of it to tell the kid to pull his head firmly back in. 

Front ending of contracts can be dangerous.Just ask the Suns with Ablett.

Rumoured that they lost a few hundred thousand because Gary didn't honour his final year.

$1.7M front ended for Martin is incredible if true.

Still nothing on salary caps and list sizes for 2021/22. Makes you wonder if the clubs know but the AFL wants to keep it secret until post GF.

Sydney must be sweating for example as to whether they can pay out Franklin.

  On 09/10/2020 at 07:46, Demons11 said:

I know a very credible source and as much as it pains me to say, this won’t go away atm.  Hopefully Melbourne just continues to say no 

I have no reason to disbelieve you but it’s  ALMOST technically impossible for Oliver to get to Carlton because he’s under contract.

Saad will cost Essendon either a current or future first rounder, so therefore Carlton will need to cough up either a current or future first rounder PLUS an additional first rounder (which they’ll need to source from another club)

OR a Paddy Cripps or McKay straight swap.

We as MFC members can’t accept anything less than two first rounders for a 2018 all Australian member, a 2020 All Aust 40 squad member and a serial top 5 bluey place getter.

  On 09/10/2020 at 08:24, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I have no reason to disbelieve you but it’s  ALMOST technically impossible for Oliver to get to Carlton because he’s under contract.

Saad will cost Essendon either a current or future first rounder, so therefore Carlton will need to cough up either a current or future first rounder PLUS an additional first rounder (which they’ll need to source from another club)

OR a Paddy Cripps or McKay straight swap.

We as MFC members can’t accept anything less than two first rounders for a 2018 all Australian member, a 2020 All Aust 40 squad member and a serial top 5 bluey place getter.

I’m with ya!

  On 09/10/2020 at 06:16, Redleg said:

I believe Martin will be on $250K next year after $1.7m this year. He will stay on a low amount for the rest of his contract.

Was by far the worst performance of a $1.7m player this year, in the history of the game.

And that pay scale [censored] is basic draft tampering but the AFL just sits there and watches it happen year in year out. It started with Luke Ball who walked from the Saints and refused to talk to suiters other than the Pies, we had first dibs. He had medical issues he would not devolve to anyone but his preferred destination club. Now we just get guys demanding front end payments that other clubs can’t meet, all to get to their preferred club. 

It seems St Kilda "... with a healthy treasure chest ready to entice new players to a club that believes its edging closer to the premiership window".  'stacks of cap space' and Brisbane "...is expected to be active in the trade period and boasts salary cap space to boot": Queensland a Destination state

Not long ago they (and Carlton) were bottom four teams like us.  Yet they all seem to have heaps of cap space yet ours is 'tight' according to a few on DL.  How did it get to that - invested too much in too few, perhaps?  It wouldn't be so bad if their performance was up to the level of their package:  thinking TMac, Lever, Melksham...

Edited October 9, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 09/10/2020 at 22:18, Lucifer's Hero said:

It seems St Kilda "... with a healthy treasure chest ready to entice new players to a club that believes its edging closer to the premiership window".  'stacks of cap space' and Brisbane "...is expected to be active in the trade period and boasts salary cap space to boot": Queensland a Destination state

Not long ago they (and Carlton) were bottom four teams like us.  Yet they all seem to have heaps of cap space yet ours is 'tight' according to a few on DL.  How did it get to that - invested too much in too few, perhaps?  It wouldn't be so bad if their performance was up to the level of their package:  thinking TMac, Lever, Melksham...

You need to have a look at their lists though and ask who would be paying big money to based on their output pre this year? StKilda do not have any superstars in my view and have paid overs to balance their side. At some point they will need to pay King, Clark and Gresham what they are worth as they become the players you would expect. 

Brisbane paid for Cameron and Neale and likely have Andrews and McCluggage on increasing deals based on worth but where else on their list would be splashing big cash?

Carlton up to this year you would pay Cripps plenty but the rest have been good players in decline or unfulfilled talent with low to middling salaries. They have now spent ridiculous overs on flashy bit players in McGovern and Martin and appear to be paying overs for Williams and Saad. They have locked away Weitering now but based on improvement and they will need big deals for Walsh, McKay but not much else for the rest (heaven forbid Curnow gets fit and reaches potential).

We are rightfully paying top money for Trac, Gawn, Oliver, May and Langdon but likely have too much money tied up in Lever (unless we front loaded), Tom and possibly Brayshaw and Harmes (granted maybe deal length balanced amount) based on output. We clearly wanted to prioritise Viney over the open market. My assumption on player payments is we have not got the balance right between paying the top 8-10 what they deserve (a lot) and balancing the payments on role players and up and coming talent. I think Brisbane have got it the most right but would much prefer out strategy than StKilda and particularly Carlton which I think will burn them when they need to put the finishing touches on their list.   

Luckily for Carlton their squad is average. They have very few players to pay big money. Aside from these imports. Only players that are good and in their prime are Cripps and Doherty. So they have a few years to front end contracts before Walsh and McKay etc require big deals. 

knowing the blues though, they’ll get carried away and done for salary cap breaches. 

  On 09/10/2020 at 23:07, big_red_fire_engine said:

You need to have a look at their lists though and ask who would be paying big money to based on their output pre this year? StKilda do not have any superstars in my view and have paid overs to balance their side. At some point they will need to pay King, Clark and Gresham what they are worth as they become the players you would expect. 

Brisbane paid for Cameron and Neale and likely have Andrews and McCluggage on increasing deals based on worth but where else on their list would be splashing big cash?

Carlton up to this year you would pay Cripps plenty but the rest have been good players in decline or unfulfilled talent with low to middling salaries. They have now spent ridiculous overs on flashy bit players in McGovern and Martin and appear to be paying overs for Williams and Saad. They have locked away Weitering now but based on improvement and they will need big deals for Walsh, McKay but not much else for the rest (heaven forbid Curnow gets fit and reaches potential).

We are rightfully paying top money for Trac, Gawn, Oliver, May and Langdon but likely have too much money tied up in Lever (unless we front loaded), Tom and possibly Brayshaw and Harmes (granted maybe deal length balanced amount) based on output. We clearly wanted to prioritise Viney over the open market. My assumption on player payments is we have not got the balance right between paying the top 8-10 what they deserve (a lot) and balancing the payments on role players and up and coming talent. I think Brisbane have got it the most right but would much prefer out strategy than StKilda and particularly Carlton which I think will burn them when they need to put the finishing touches on their list.   

Agree with most of this.  Saints and Carlton may get burnt when it is time to put the finishing touches on their list.  But by some accounts that is where we are now.

Kreuzer would have left a sizable hole in Carltons salary cap.

  On 10/10/2020 at 00:36, george_on_the_outer said:

Kreuzer would have left a sizable hole in Carltons salary cap.

Wouldn't have thought it would be a huge hole. His last contract was for 2 years and his injury history likely would have meant it wasn't a massive one. He's been on incentive based contracts meaning the Blues kept him for below what he could have got elsewhere.

His salary from this year would be dwarfed by what the Blues would need to pay Saad, Williams and DeGoey next year.

Need to remember also they are paying McGovern about $100k per disposal!!

  On 09/10/2020 at 08:24, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I have no reason to disbelieve you but it’s  ALMOST technically impossible for Oliver to get to Carlton because he’s under contract.

Saad will cost Essendon either a current or future first rounder, so therefore Carlton will need to cough up either a current or future first rounder PLUS an additional first rounder (which they’ll need to source from another club)

OR a Paddy Cripps or McKay straight swap.

We as MFC members can’t accept anything less than two first rounders for a 2018 all Australian member, a 2020 All Aust 40 squad member and a serial top 5 bluey place getter.

I want to put this to rest. We cannot accept anything for Clarry!! Period!! And I say this If we have signed up Viney for 5 years to the detriment of getting Oliver for the same amount of time then that's me Done totally with MFC FOREVER!!

Kids are cheap, even when they are good.  The last 100-goal season in AFL was by a player who was still on a barely-above-average contract because even he and his management were surprised how quickly he dominated!

That same player is now getting around a million a year and struggling to take the field!

Contracts are always a chancy business and it's a shame there isn't a clearer, more performance-responsive way to lay them out while still giving players some security.

The curse of the Melbourne Football Club has for some time included players who have had a couple of top season, committed to the club on long deals which may not even have been 'overs' given their performance, but then had their output slip significantly.

Tom McDonald, Jake Melksham, James Harmes stand out recently,

The peak for me was the early-mid 2000s when Travis Johnstone, Adem Yze, Shane Woewodin, Cameron Bruce, Brad Miller, and others all got contracts signed at their best form.  It's not as if they all turned to junk - I have a lot of respect for these names - but they were all being paid at the fair rate for their best form, rather than the rate for the form they delivered consistently over the years.  And the difficulties it caused are history.