CHANGES: Rd 14 vs St Kilda

[Ham 741]

It's a coaches role to best position each and every player for game day, if the/a player doesn't bring that, then it's the coaches role to mediate and draw a conclusion as to why.

A coach CAN'T actually provide the effort that the players need to bring.

Petracca's effort was abysmal, many times he was found just watching the ball and not chasing what so ever, especially when the game was still on the line.

Goody can't change that, in the moment, on the day. All he can do is try and eliminate it going forward and stop it from becoming a habit. 

 

[Demons11 7,024]

3 hours ago, Demon17 said:

I assume being 'up at 1/2 time' means on the scoreboard only and luckily as another poster said here entirely due to Steven May saving the day.

TheDees  midfield was being creamed in the first half and it was a matter of time unless Goody dealt with the Dogs run and the Bont.

He didn't and it was over 5 minutes into the 3rd quarter

How do you know he didn’t do anything? He very clearly said that he put somethings in place but the team defended as poorly as they have all season.  It’s on the players!

[Demons11 7,024]

12 minutes ago, Ham said:

It's a coaches role to best position each and every player for game day, if the/a player doesn't bring that, then it's the coaches role to mediate and draw a conclusion as to why.

A coach CAN'T actually provide the effort that the players need to bring.

Petracca's effort was abysmal, many times he was found just watching the ball and not chasing what so ever, especially when the game was still on the line.

Goody can't change that, in the moment, on the day. All he can do is try and eliminate it going forward and stop it from becoming a habit. 

 

? correct 

[BW511 2,669]

21 minutes ago, Ham said:

It's a coaches role to best position each and every player for game day, if the/a player doesn't bring that, then it's the coaches role to mediate and draw a conclusion as to why.

A coach CAN'T actually provide the effort that the players need to bring.

Petracca's effort was abysmal, many times he was found just watching the ball and not chasing what so ever, especially when the game was still on the line.

Goody can't change that, in the moment, on the day. All he can do is try and eliminate it going forward and stop it from becoming a habit. 

 

The players that are costing us games by playing this way are all in the most important positions on the field. It should be extremely concerning that Brayshaw, Petracca and Oliver can all have 'off' days on the same day. No surprise the dogs absolutely destroyed us in the middle. 

It's not a bad opportunity to make an example of someone, given the game is so important for his career. Not a token change, a real strong one, send a wake up call to the whole list

[bobby1554 1,244]

12 hours ago, rpfc said:

Of course it is - but all that work is to "ensure the players are ready on game day"...

He's not a counsellor - he is trying to get a consistent performance out of group of blokes that have struggled to find it.

I like the way we play and I don't care about not having a "Plan B" as I see that as a fallacy for good teams (diff tactics do not equal diff ways of playing) but where do they go at times? I can understand it if it skills, but it's not... I can understand if it's talent, but it's not...

I would make minimal changes this week and see how the players respond. We can go in the other direction too - we have the style of play and the talent.

Now to execute.

But I think it is. We over rate our list, thinking they are better than they really are. There is a reason we cannot beat good sides, they are just better than we are. You can’t make silk purse out of a sows ears

[Half forward flank 1,022]

34 minutes ago, Ham said:

It's a coaches role to best position each and every player for game day, if the/a player doesn't bring that, then it's the coaches role to mediate and draw a conclusion as to why.

A coach CAN'T actually provide the effort that the players need to bring.

Petracca's effort was abysmal, many times he was found just watching the ball and not chasing what so ever, especially when the game was still on the line.

Goody can't change that, in the moment, on the day. All he can do is try and eliminate it going forward and stop it from becoming a habit. 

 

And you can demand Petracca never handballs, Under 12 style over his head again.  We dont know but there are lots of instances where players must be really told in no uncertain manner not to do something again, on the spot in actual time, not in review. Maybe the cameras dont highlight but I think they would if Goody was immediately on the phone after an action like Petracca handballing over his head.

[Pitchy 196]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, buck_nekkid said:

When I see things like ‘bring in Smith’ or ‘move May to the forward line’ it confirms that we are feeling desperate and have lost faith.  You would think the club has plans and an understanding of players capabilities and development needs (holding Weids back until he sorted his presentation and marking), but after what we see, we have no trust.  So instead, supporters are left to make up ‘Hail Mary’s’ of ideas in the hope that something will fix this crapola we are delivering.

i am not a fan of these- maybe a little in game to change things up is ok.  I would rather see the players decide how much it means to them and actually follow the system.  Set up, run hard both ways, be ferocious.  Not the ‘let’s outrun them’ that they tried on the weekend, and will give us a 50 point loss against the improved saints.

if you are not going to bleed for the jumper, then out you go.

 

Yeah always agree on effort, but these suggestions aren't always Hail Marys. 

 

Joel Smith could easily prove a better high marking defensive forward than he would be a smart ball-using defender. 

 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

17 hours ago, A F said:

Great post mate.

It makes no sense to me that we continue to play Viney in our midfield (crowding out the better, cleaner users) and Harmes at half back, when both could be put to great use up forward.

St Kilda will do exactly what the Bulldogs did unless we do something about our tackling...

That idea of Viney on the forward line, applying decent levels of forward-defensive pressure, almost 'must' start occurring. We can add another prowler of the stunted variety in the forward set-up, as well, and there are a few of these from which to choose. 

The midfield centre is crowded, as it is; there is no real space for an inside midfielder to rapidly become an outside-mid after the bounce. These guys (Tracca, Oliver and Gus) must currently attempt to carry the ball out themselves and run into opposition brick walls - we lose possession and cannot chase the majority of clearances (quickly executed to set plans against Goodwin's ideas of perfect midfield execution). We have all seen Gawn tap down cleverly and the next thing, gather his own ball to execute a clearance kick. That is not his job.

Jonesy used to do the evacuation from the tap - by exiting the centre by foot in possession of the ball. He did this for years, developing the long bomb the maximise the clearance, regretfully. This style became infectious for all of our midfielders, to our very great dismay.  He (Jones)  can no longer do this as often (the exiting) and we do not want the long bomb anymore. Viney does contribute to that congestion in the centre but if he was already moving outside variably, we have three talented midfielders in the mix to seek him out. Viney's best assets are so frequently related to his tackling; into the forward line, he could create excellent forward defensive pressure on opponent backmen, still move at good pace and take advantage of his kicking skills (to goal) with more effect from a closer range.

With the congestion in the centre/midfield reduced, we have adequate numbers and skills to be more purposeful in obtaining possession and in the distribution to better effect into a mobile forward line. Three up, one back is more than adequate, plus it would strengthen our forward pressure and potency.

 

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

27 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

But I think it is. We over rate our list, thinking they are better than they really are. There is a reason we cannot beat good sides, they are just better than we are. You can’t make silk purse out of a sows ears

I know what ther likes of John Kennedy Snr and other great coaches would make of that statement.

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

And you can demand Petracca never handballs, Under 12 style over his head again.  We dont know but there are lots of instances where players must be really told in no uncertain manner not to do something again, on the spot in actual time, not in review. Maybe the cameras dont highlight but I think they would if Goody was immediately on the phone after an action like Petracca handballing over his head.

If that is one that Lyon referred to as 'Hollywood' not sure Petracca had much choice. 

The tap landed so that he had his back to our goals.  He knew Viney and Oliver were behind him.  He had Liberatore right in front ready to pounce.  The vision was wide enough to see if he was coralled in.  So he hand balled backwards.  It didn't work. 

I had the impression Preuss tapped to the wrong spot. The set-up looked like the tap would go to Viney or Oliver and they would pass to Pretacca who had a straight run to goal.

A lot of our taps went to the wrong spot last Saturday.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Jordon's out for a month and Jones is right to go apparently. Sparrow a month also.

Gawn back in. Jacko for about round 18.

Round 14 Injury Update | Two youngsters sidelined

 

 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If that is one that Lyon referred to as 'Hollywood' not sure Petracca had much choice. 

The tap landed so that he had his back to our goals.  He knew Viney and Oliver were behind him.  He had Liberatore right in front ready to pounce.  The vision was wide enough to see if he was coralled in.  So he hand balled backwards.  It didn't work. 

I had the impression Preuss tapped to the wrong spot. The set-up looked like the tap would go to Viney or Oliver and they would pass to Pretacca who had a straight run to goal.

A lot of our taps went to the wrong spot last Saturday.

I believe we're talking about the one in the clip in this article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-western-bulldogs-loss-christian-petracca-fox-footy-garry-lyon-afl-ladder/news-story/38ccaf7a995af7ffe59d01d770fc8ca3

Looks to me like the tap was probably always going to go to Petracca and he wasn't going to be tackled by Liberatore quickly enough to prevent him running forward and kicking it.

It's always tough dissecting individual plays like this, but IMO it was a poor choice from Petracca.

[Demon17 5,188]

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

How do you know he didn’t do anything? He very clearly said that he put somethings in place but the team defended as poorly as they have all season.  It’s on the players!

Fair point but when the Bont kicked his first goal after 1/2 time he was fed a handball out away from the pack and was in the open by miles. No tagger or Goody was let down by the appointed role player. I know which I believe. I guess this week we'll see if the players are right to go on instructions

[Siren 156]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I believe we're talking about the one in the clip in this article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-western-bulldogs-loss-christian-petracca-fox-footy-garry-lyon-afl-ladder/news-story/38ccaf7a995af7ffe59d01d770fc8ca3

Looks to me like the tap was probably always going to go to Petracca and he wasn't going to be tackled by Liberatore quickly enough to prevent him running forward and kicking it.

It's always tough dissecting individual plays like this, but IMO it was a poor choice from Petracca.

It is certainly difficult to dissect but looking at the vision again Clarry was in the clear if (a) the handball gets to him or (b) the ball doesn’t bounce away from him. 

Clarry looks to be the runner in this stoppage where the dogs players push up on trac who tries to give the releasing handball. 
 

Unfortunately the hand ball misses, the ball bounces away towards Libba, Clarry almost gets hands on it but it’s toe poked away by Bont. 
 

could have easily gone the other way but that’s footy....

[Redleg 40,926]

2 hours ago, Pitchy said: 

 

Joel Smith could easily prove a better high marking defensive forward than he would be a smart ball-using defender. 

 

 

Possibly!

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Siren said:

It is certainly difficult to dissect but looking at the vision again Clarry was in the clear if (a) the handball gets to him or (b) the ball doesn’t bounce away from him. 

Clarry looks to be the runner in this stoppage where the dogs players push up on trac who tries to give the releasing handball. 
 

Unfortunately the hand ball misses, the ball bounces away towards Libba, Clarry almost gets hands on it but it’s toe poked away by Bont. 
 

could have easily gone the other way but that’s footy....

Clarry was in the clear, sure, but he was behind Petracca, so Trac had the decision to play the odds or to handball over his head. He made the wrong choice. He shouldn't be crucified for it given it's just one example and he's having a great year, but it's caught the eye of Melbourne people somewhat because it's so emblematic of the club's attitude for so long.

We just too often look like a confused team that doesn't totally understand what we're mean to be doing, and the players don't get enough instruction from Goodwin during games IMO. There seems to be this attitude of 'we'll fix it during the week', but by then the impact and opportunity to change it is already gone. This is where we start to miss someone like McCartney IMO. Down on the bench providing experience and advice, giving instruction during the game. Not saying we should get him back btw, just saying I think this is a weakness in our coaching structure, game day and head coach.

 

[Redleg 40,926]

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Clarry was in the clear, sure, but he was behind Petracca, so Trac had the decision to play the odds or to handball over his head. He made the wrong choice. He shouldn't be crucified for it given it's just one example and he's having a great year, but it's caught the eye of Melbourne people somewhat because it's so emblematic of the club's attitude for so long.

We just too often look like a confused team that doesn't totally understand what we're mean to be doing, and the players don't get enough instruction from Goodwin during games IMO. There seems to be this attitude of 'we'll fix it during the week', but by then the impact and opportunity to change it is already gone. This is where we start to miss someone like McCartney IMO. Down on the bench providing experience and advice, giving instruction during the game. Not saying we should get him back btw, just saying I think this is a weakness in our coaching structure, game day and head coach.

 

Interesting point, as several teams have their Coach, or an Assistant on the bench, able to talk to players immediately they rotate to the bench. I haven’t noticed Goodwin or any Assistant at the bench for us, but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Redleg

[Wells 11 5,406]

27 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Jordon's out for a month and Jones is right to go apparently. Sparrow a month also.

Gawn back in. Jacko for about round 18.

Round 14 Injury Update | Two youngsters sidelined

 

 

Hmmmm....except there is no round 18 this year. So that effectively means no jacko this year unless we make the finals. 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

2 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Hmmmm....except there is no round 18 this year. So that effectively means no jacko this year unless we make the finals. 

Yes there is - 17 games and 1 bye means 18 rounds.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Interesting point, as several teams have their Coach, or an Assistant on the bench, able to talk to players immediately they rotate to the bench. I haven’t noticed Goodwin or any Assistant at the bench for us, but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.

Won't go into who obviously, and I know the usual posters will line up to have a crack at me, but a current players family member told me after the Doggies game that at stages during the game that player and another one (both of whom are 'best 22' players) were on the bench just totally confused and getting no instruction at all from Goodwin.

Obviously from that I've expanded that out, but hearing it reinforced things I already thought.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If that is one that Lyon referred to as 'Hollywood' not sure Petracca had much choice. 

The tap landed so that he had his back to our goals.  He knew Viney and Oliver were behind him.  He had Liberatore right in front ready to pounce.  The vision was wide enough to see if he was coralled in.  So he hand balled backwards.  It didn't work. 

I had the impression Preuss tapped to the wrong spot. The set-up looked like the tap would go to Viney or Oliver and they would pass to Pretacca who had a straight run to goal.

A lot of our taps went to the wrong spot last Saturday.

So handballing to the opposition is preferable to being caught holding the ball. No

[TickleMeTyson 137]

Watching Mitch Wallis tear us apart on the weekend, I couldn't help but think Harmes was capable of something similar. He is far more suited to a forward role and should be rotated through the middle when opposition mids get on top of us (i.e. Bontempelli).

Trent Rivers should be in the role Harmes is playing at the moment. 

[Dannyz 2,759]

I would love to see Bedford this week ?

[Redleg 40,926]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Won't go into who obviously, and I know the usual posters will line up to have a crack at me, but a current players family member told me after the Doggies game that at stages during the game that player and another one (both of whom are 'best 22' players) were on the bench just totally confused and getting no instruction at all from Goodwin.

Obviously from that I've expanded that out, but hearing it reinforced things I already thought.

If true that is very concerning and possibly explains a lot of things.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

4 hours ago, Dannyz said:

I would love to see Bedford this week ?

Me too.  Id love to see all three of Bedford, Baker and Rivers.

This is the least confident I have been going into a game for some time.  The upside is if we win it will taste so, so sweet.