CHANGES: Rd 13 vs Bulldogs

[Ted Lasso 17,315]

The Patches plan to beat the dogs. 

• Max Dominates English and gives our mids first look, win it out of the middle. 
• Melksham plays as a defensive forward on Daniel. drags him to FF at every opportunity. his kicking sets up the play for them
• James Harmes completes a hard tag on Jackson McRae, he's struggled with tags and is very damaging in 2020 
• Isolate the Bulldogs undersized key backs. our big forwards have generally done well against the doggies. 
• Keep defending as well as we have been. Make Naughton compete 1v1 with May. he's dangerous on a lead where he can run and jump. 
• every time Bont gets the footy, SMASH HIM the Giants have used this tactic effectively, he starts worrying about contact. don't mind giving a free or two away to get inside his head. 

[Earl Hood 5,870]

15 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

That is how Spargo was playing all of 2018, he had the second year blues last year, most don't rate him because of his height, it's a bias many have, and most are to stupid to realise they judge players on their height before they see if they can play. Some of the greats were rejected because of their height, example Tony Liberatore, diesel Williams, who were both past over and made to work the hard way.

I think many of us just noted his height or lack thereof and then looked for compensating attributes of agility, explosive pace, uncanny goal sense? I didn’t see these attributes last year. Not fast, couldn’t stick a tackle, not a great kick but a very reliable footy player, yes, but then where does he fit in? But this week it was 10 or so minutes of exceptional, opportunistic small forward play to snag 3 goals and set one up for Brayshaw. I admit that effort has changed my view of Spargo in that he may just have the footy IQ to make it as a small forward. Let’s hope so. 

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,455]

5 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I think many of us just noted his height or lack thereof and then looked for compensating attributes of agility, explosive pace, uncanny goal sense? I didn’t see these attributes last year. Not fast, couldn’t stick a tackle, not a great kick but a very reliable footy player, yes, but then where does he fit in? But this week it was 10 or so minutes of exceptional, opportunistic small forward play to snag 3 goals and set one up for Brayshaw. I admit that effort has changed my view of Spargo in that he may just have the footy IQ to make it as a small forward. Let’s hope so. 

Let's hope he can put together a few more consistent performances and against stronger opposition

Otherwise may just be a case of the sun shining on a dogs ... etc etc

[Biffen 12,557]

5 hours ago, A F said:

You do realise Fritsch has been going at 50% accuracy this year, right? You're basically describing his season when you say guys missing set shots and spraying snaps, which he's done consistently all season.

To make matters worse, when the ball hits the ground he's afraid of body contact.

I acknowledge he's missed a few .

Despite this, he is a beautiful set shot and a great mark for his size.

He is not about to knock blokes over with his frame being what it is.

He's also our leading scorer and his accuracy will improve with confidence.

No way he will get dropped in the near future.

[Demon_spurs 1,727]

5 hours ago, Demons11 said:

So because you didn’t notice him he gets dropped? He is not even on the wing he is playing a key back role, which frees both Lever and May up. 
The game is not all about possessions.  

True possessions aren't everything,, I think players both back and forward (i.e. Lockhart or Pickett), wouldn't have had too many touches, but are valuable pressure players, I'm just not overly sold on Tomlinson, I think Garry Lyon summed up when missed 3 Demon targets by 5 metres and turned the ball over with very little pressure, he seems to do that a bit. He's got good size, and can run, but he seems a peripheral player at the moment.

[Binmans PA 26,713]

18 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I acknowledge he's missed a few .

Despite this, he is a beautiful set shot and a great mark for his size.

He is not about to knock blokes over with his frame being what it is.

He's also our leading scorer and his accuracy will improve with confidence.

No way he will get dropped in the near future.

Never said he will be.

And likewise, I acknowledge he's our leading scorer.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

2 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Bennell is an interesting case. I watched Ross Lyon and Lloyd on Footy Classifieds on Wednesday analysing Brad Hill’s recent poor form. Footage showed him pulling out of contests, not chasing, fumbling and just not getting the ball etc. It was damning stuff but Lyon’s response to Lloyd’s question, should he be dropped was that we know his skill set is not crash and bash but speed and ball use. Ross was adamant the coaching group has to work on strategies for the team to get the ball into his hands. Ross seemed to think that is a no brainer for a good coach. I couldn’t help thinking if we have a similar situation with Bennell. He is still developing confidence in his body and no he won’t be running into packs but should we get a few more games into him and develop strategies to get the ball to him. In a similar vein I thought in our early games we were not using Langdon enough, he was always in position as an option for the ball carrier but we kept banging it up the line to contests. But in the past 4 or 5 games our mids have realised he will always be an option wide if they are in trouble and he has been great for us retaining possession and resetting our inside50’s. The coaching group knows better where Bennell is at fitness wise and if he still has the weapons that made him a great player. 

Yep - good post and I suspect this is the way our coaching group view it.

The problem is he's not causing enough damage offensively to negate the amount of times he becomes the weak link defensively.

I think the Hill example is interesting. He's a runner and while he might not be playing physical defence, the fact that he has the tank to be filling space at one end then becoming an offensive threat at the other, means he's giving you something in both phases. Maybe this is the model for Bennell to aspire to?

At the moment he too often ends up in a really important position on the outside of congestion where his contest is our last chance to negate the clearance.

I'm certainly not writing him off but he needs to show intent when he's stationed around stoppages or contest areas because it's the type of thing that can cause other players to go off-script to cover and the domino effect could be disastrous.

But as you say, getting him the ball should be a priority.

 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

1 hour ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

The Patches plan to beat the dogs. 

• Max Dominates English and gives our mids first look, win it out of the middle. 
• Melksham plays as a defensive forward on Daniel. drags him to FF at every opportunity. his kicking sets up the play for them
• James Harmes completes a hard tag on Jackson McRae, he's struggled with tags and is very damaging in 2020 
• Isolate the Bulldogs undersized key backs. our big forwards have generally done well against the doggies. 
• Keep defending as well as we have been. Make Naughton compete 1v1 with May. he's dangerous on a lead where he can run and jump. 
• every time Bont gets the footy, SMASH HIM the Giants have used this tactic effectively, he starts worrying about contact. don't mind giving a free or two away to get inside his head. 

After his game on Maynard, I think you're on the money and Melky will get the job on Daniel.

On the Naughton/May matchup - May is superb at shutting down players on the lead.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

5 hours ago, A F said:

You do realise Fritsch has been going at 50% accuracy this year, right? You're basically describing his season when you say guys missing set shots and spraying snaps, which he's done consistently all season.

To make matters worse, when the ball hits the ground he's afraid of body contact.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this one.

I don't think we have too many more courageous players in our side than Fritter.

As a backman, he consistently showed a willingness to back into packs and has done similar when forward.

Do you have any examples?

I know he avoided having his leg broken by jumping out of the way of a sliding Collingwood player on the weekend, but I can't recall him shirking any contests.

[Binmans PA 26,713]

20 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this one.

I don't think we have too many more courageous players in our side than Fritter.

As a backman, he consistently showed a willingness to back into packs and has done similar when forward.

Do you have any examples?

I know he avoided having his leg broken by jumping out of the way of a sliding Collingwood player on the weekend, but I can't recall him shirking any contests.

Yep, the avoiding contact on the legs thing was a recent example, but he doesn't tackle hard enough (or regularly enough) and I reckon since he's moved forward he's become less physical.

I agree that when he played back, he showed courage in the air and backing into packs or in front of oncoming big forwards.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/486374/dogs-hopeful-on-rising-ruckman-s-late-ankle-scare

 

Sounds very doubtful to play us.

[deanox 8,975]

2 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

That is how Spargo was playing all of 2018, he had the second year blues last year, most don't rate him because of his height, it's a bias many have, and most are to stupid to realise they judge players on their height before they see if they can play. Some of the greats were rejected because of their height, example Tony Liberatore, diesel Williams, who were both past over and made to work the hard way.

 

In 2018 Spargo averaged 5.2 score involvements from 12.2 disposals per game. Let's call that 4.2 from 9.8 in 2020 due to shorter games. This year he is ave 4.0 from 9.0 from 3 games, so very close. 

This year 84 players average 4.2 or score involvements per game and at 4.0, Spargo is top 90 in the comp. 

That's only 4-5 players per club who are that much involved in their teams scoring as much as Spargo.

Let's say elite in this category is 5 (only 22 players average more than 5 score involvements per game this year). Spargo only needs an extra 2 disposals per game and he'll hit that.

 

I rate score involvements as a concept stat because they show how well you create attacking opportunities through your disposal, either by hitting the score board or by combining with your team mates during scoring passages. In Spargo's case he creates opportunities to score by adding value. He disposes to the advantage of his team mates in a way that frees them up. Even when he isn't scoring, those around him score.

 

[DeeSpencer 23,667]

12 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Agreed Buck, somewhat different types. 

However, I'd like Bennell back to gain form and confidence. He is a classy finisher and will add a different type of pressure. Kossie is the future no doubt but he is young bodied and inexperienced. A rest and reset might just help him produce more outcomes for his flash and dash. Also with Spargo filling a similar role, we can afford to rest him.

We need the 2 pressure forwards. With 2 big guys, Fritsch, Melksham and Jones we're very light on for pressure and the Dogs are really dangerous if they get running. Daniel and JJ both need to be restricted. If Pickett needs a rest - and I don't think he does, he was great against North - then I'd go for Hannan.

I'd like to see Harley again but in place of Jones or the extra mid and when the opposition suits. 

Petracca and Goodwin have clearly said our game plan is all based on a solid defensive set up and the pressure forwards are the first line of that set up.

[deespicable me 1,445]

We need to drop Gus.

I'm missing golf terribly and Gus's celebrations are just rubbing salt into the wound. He needs to go.

[Binmans PA 26,713]

31 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

In 2018 Spargo averaged 5.2 score involvements from 12.2 disposals per game. Let's call that 4.2 from 9.8 in 2020 due to shorter games. This year he is ave 4.0 from 9.0 from 3 games, so very close. 

This year 84 players average 4.2 or score involvements per game and at 4.0, Spargo is top 90 in the comp. 

That's only 4-5 players per club who are that much involved in their teams scoring as much as Spargo.

Let's say elite in this category is 5 (only 22 players average more than 5 score involvements per game this year). Spargo only needs an extra 2 disposals per game and he'll hit that.

 

I rate score involvements as a concept stat because they show how well you create attacking opportunities through your disposal, either by hitting the score board or by combining with your team mates during scoring passages. In Spargo's case he creates opportunities to score by adding value. He disposes to the advantage of his team mates in a way that frees them up. Even when he isn't scoring, those around him score.

 

Great post mate. Me too. That's why I've always rated Spargo even though he doesn't rack up big numbers or crumb too much in a traditional sense.

I'm happy to allow those sort of players a bit more leeway too in their disposal. Petracca is a bit this way for me and Dustin Martin can turn it over a fair bit, but he's so often involved in Richmond scoring chains.

In a season with shorter quarters and less time to score, players who are regularly involved in scoring chains are worth their weight in gold.

Edited August 16, 2020 by A F

[Demon trucker 1,800]

41 minutes ago, deanox said:

 

In 2018 Spargo averaged 5.2 score involvements from 12.2 disposals per game. Let's call that 4.2 from 9.8 in 2020 due to shorter games. This year he is ave 4.0 from 9.0 from 3 games, so very close. 

This year 84 players average 4.2 or score involvements per game and at 4.0, Spargo is top 90 in the comp. 

That's only 4-5 players per club who are that much involved in their teams scoring as much as Spargo.

Let's say elite in this category is 5 (only 22 players average more than 5 score involvements per game this year). Spargo only needs an extra 2 disposals per game and he'll hit that.

 

I rate score involvements as a concept stat because they show how well you create attacking opportunities through your disposal, either by hitting the score board or by combining with your team mates during scoring passages. In Spargo's case he creates opportunities to score by adding value. He disposes to the advantage of his team mates in a way that frees them up. Even when he isn't scoring, those around him score.

 

So does that mean U agree with me,that was good vin 2018

[leave it to deever 16,581]

There were quite a few here against Preuss being selected last week. True it was a gamble given he hasnt played for eons.

Now its all lets give Max all the time he needs and keep his replacement in. Props to Preuss for all his effort. A huge effort it was. Slipped back in the role like he had being doing it all week. Wouldnt mind seeing him keep his spot at the expense of Tmac with Gawn going up forward for spells if hes fit enough for selection. 

Otherwise no change.

[binman 39,537]

8 hours ago, deanox said:

 

In 2018 Spargo averaged 5.2 score involvements from 12.2 disposals per game. Let's call that 4.2 from 9.8 in 2020 due to shorter games. This year he is ave 4.0 from 9.0 from 3 games, so very close. 

This year 84 players average 4.2 or score involvements per game and at 4.0, Spargo is top 90 in the comp. 

That's only 4-5 players per club who are that much involved in their teams scoring as much as Spargo.

Let's say elite in this category is 5 (only 22 players average more than 5 score involvements per game this year). Spargo only needs an extra 2 disposals per game and he'll hit that.

 

I rate score involvements as a concept stat because they show how well you create attacking opportunities through your disposal, either by hitting the score board or by combining with your team mates during scoring passages. In Spargo's case he creates opportunities to score by adding value. He disposes to the advantage of his team mates in a way that frees them up. Even when he isn't scoring, those around him score.

 

Agree on spargo.

And agree score involvement is, unlike so many stats,  a really useful measure of performance.

The key part of it is that it records who are the links in the scoring chain

One stat I'd like to see is the reverse. That is, instantances where a turnover breaks a scoring chain. Impossible I know if too far away from goal as there is no way of knowing if the chain was going to break before a  shot on goal.

But the focus is usually on turn overs, either in isolation or when the opposition scores a goal from them.

But lost opportunities at scoring because of a missed 20 metre kick or handball on the hb line are just as a big an issue, even if it doesn't cost a goal to them., as it cost a potential goal to us.

That is why a player like spargo is important. He makes the simple 20 metre kick. Unlike say vdb (who has other charms) or viney.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,476]

I have a feeling that Jones may have been playing a defensive forward role on Crisp.  I would like him to do similar on Daniel. JJ may get the run but Daniel is their architect. The more I think about this the more I would go with Gawn/Pruess combo over Tmac, particularly with Ryder/Marshall the following week. I would prefer to see us balance the load on Max for the season as well as continue to have a true ruck inside 50 stoppages. It would be different if TMac was moving better and clunking them but I think we will get a similar output in those spaces with the big Preusster or Max resting forward. 

6 day break should not need to see anyone managed other than maybe Sparrow if he is feeling it. Gawn for Tmac or no change for mine. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by big_red_fire_engine

[Waltham33 422]

12 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Rivers, Bennell and Hannan need to wait it out, next in line.

 

Concur - if we are focusing in on making finals and making noise in the finals, then keep the same group with Max as you say.  Rivers will be a long termer for us, Bennell has already paid his 2020 bonus and Mitch is great depth.  Only if injuries strike for mine

[binman 39,537]

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I have a feeling that Jones may have been playing a defensive forward role on Crisp.  I would like him to do similar on Daniel. JJ may get the run but Daniel is their architect. The more I think about this the more I would go with Gawn/Pruess combo over Tmac, particularly with Ryder/Marshall the following week. I would prefer to see us balance the load on Max for the season as well as continue to have a true ruck inside 50 stoppages. It would be different if TMac was moving better and clunking them but I think we will get a similar output in those spaces with the big Preusster or Max resting forward. 

6 day break should not need to see anyone managed other than maybe Sparrow if he is feeling it. Gawn for Tmac or no change for mine. 

7 day break. And no travel.

Doggies have a six day break, which can't bit be a positive for us.

And then another one to the saints game (who by the by also have a six day break after a tough game v the lions).

Two seven day breaks (after our 6 day break post roos game) is terrific for planning and getting recovery and preparation spot on.

We then have a five day break to the swans game in cairns, wirh the swans also coming off a 5 day break following their game v port in Adelaide.

[jnrmac 19,505]

There is something about players playing against their old clubs that I like

Hannan comes in after being ill

Tough one to pick one to drop...Maybe Kozzie, he was poor in the wet against the Pies but he did get to the right spots....

[leave it to deever 16,581]

13 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I think many of us just noted his height or lack thereof and then looked for compensating attributes of agility, explosive pace, uncanny goal sense? I didn’t see these attributes last year. Not fast, couldn’t stick a tackle, not a great kick but a very reliable footy player, yes, but then where does he fit in? But this week it was 10 or so minutes of exceptional, opportunistic small forward play to snag 3 goals and set one up for Brayshaw. I admit that effort has changed my view of Spargo in that he may just have the footy IQ to make it as a small forward. Let’s hope so. 

Definately found where he fits in. 10 mins of carnage to the pies from 5 and half feet of sheer will and footy smarts. Well done Sparticus. Keep it going Sir.

[drdrake 3,061]

Like all clubs we need to prepare for another massive period of Football.  If Gawn is fit he comes in, I would play him against Dogs and Saints, then rest him against Freo and Sydney.  Then play the last 2 games and hopefully finals after that.  

[chook fowler 18,579]

how often do you see a player come back after a long break and do well in the first game but struggle after that - this is my concern with Preuss. If Max is ok he must play the next 2 games and then maybe rested depending on results.